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Dolimite
Oscar has fought everyone there was to fight when he fought. However he seemed to lose the big matches, Trinidad, Hopkins, Shane, Mayweather, Pacquiao etc.. He has also had controversial decisions the one I remember most was Ike Quarty. How would you view De La Hoya's career? I think he was good a fighter, not great but good. I would rank him in the top 50. His looks, charisma, and heritage really helped his career, I wouldn't call him hype but he had a massive machine behind him.
Cshel86
Great thread!

I would rate the Sturm "victory" over the Quartey victory. The Quartey fight was very close.

As for his career...his fan base was his biggest asset. Dude could fight just about anybody and do some decent numbers. Not all fighters have that luxury. I just didn't like his lack of confidence from time to time, but he fought just about everybody that was put in front of him.

Am I in the minority here?
Jack 1000
A very good fighter was Delahoya, who had the fan base of a great fighter. Yes, he had trouble in some big fights, but I think was good.

Jack
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 22 2012, 11:04 AM) *
Great thread!

I would rate the Sturm "victory" over the Quartey victory. The Quartey fight was very close.

As for his career...his fan base was his biggest asset. Dude could fight just about anybody and do some decent numbers. Not all fighters have that luxury. I just didn't like his lack of confidence from time to time, but he fought just about everybody that was put in front of him.

Am I in the minority here?


A lot of people felt Ike won that fight. I don't know if Oscar took that fight serious. Ike came at him from the first round to the last. I gave Ike 7 rounds. Oscar fought legends Chavez Sr. Hector Camacho and Pernell Sweet Pea Whitaker also Hernandez (even though they were passed their prime). He even beat as you mentioned a young Felix Strum, i think he was undefeated at the time. He beat Vargas and fought Mosley twice and Trindad he has was champion in 6 different weight classes and he is worth damn near a billion dollars what 600 million? I just feel when it came to the big fights he didn't perform. Vargas was outmatched from the start. I am a Mayweather fan but Oscar could of won that fight if he had true grit but he faded like Roger predicted. His fight with Hopkins is my favorite, with a cut hand he still fought a lot of guys would of stopped the fight. He fought a good fight until that body shot sat him down for good. I think Hopkins respected Oscar after that fight. Again Oscar has heart but he didn't get up for the big fights. I guess if you could compare him with another athlete from another sport he would be my Matt Ryan, plays great during the regular season but once playoffs start that cat is ghost. Same with Oscar big fights he seems to fail. The media loved him I actually thought the fishnet pictures gave him personality, he was so robotic and commercial with his answers. At least the fishnets was out of character. I do think he still sniffs that white powder he always seems high. In all Oscar is a good boxer just not a great.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 22 2012, 04:36 PM) *
A lot of people felt Ike won that fight. I don't know if Oscar took that fight serious. Ike came at him from the first round to the last. I gave Ike 7 rounds. Oscar fought legends Chavez Sr. Hector Camacho and Pernell Sweet Pea Whitaker also Hernandez (even though they were passed their prime). He even beat as you mentioned a young Felix Strum, i think he was undefeated at the time. He beat Vargas and fought Mosley twice and Trindad he has was champion in 6 different weight classes and he is worth damn near a billion dollars what 600 million? I just feel when it came to the big fights he didn't perform. Vargas was outmatched from the start. I am a Mayweather fan but Oscar could of won that fight if he had true grit but he faded like Roger predicted. His fight with Hopkins is my favorite, with a cut hand he still fought a lot of guys would of stopped the fight. He fought a good fight until that body shot sat him down for good. I think Hopkins respected Oscar after that fight. Again Oscar has heart but he didn't get up for the big fights. I guess if you could compare him with another athlete from another sport he would be my Matt Ryan, plays great during the regular season but once playoffs start that cat is ghost. Same with Oscar big fights he seems to fail. The media loved him I actually thought the fishnet pictures gave him personality, he was so robotic and commercial with his answers. At least the fishnets was out of character. I do think he still sniffs that white powder he always seems high. In all Oscar is a good boxer just not a great.

I believe that Ike won the first fight as well...it was a 1-point fight in my eyes. I feel like he truly lost that Sturm fight...he looked flabby and uninterested...as he did in the Hopkins fight.

I agree, he didn't perform all that great in his biggest fights...when it counted. I felt like he beat himself in those big fights...maybe he put too much pressure on himself mentally, before he even stepped in the ring.

Oscar did fade in the Mayweather fight, and people were wondering why he "stopped using the jab", which was winning him rounds. He didn't "stop" using the jab, it was taken away by Floyd, and he was only able to land it every blue moon.

Glad you brought up Matt Ryan...I HATE the Falcons. Well, I hate their fairweather fans, but the team is okay. laugh.gif Did you REALLY like the DLH/Hopkins fight? I have to go back and watch it...its been a while.

Oh yeah, welcome to the board! Lol
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 22 2012, 05:46 PM) *
I believe that Ike won the first fight as well...it was a 1-point fight in my eyes. I feel like he truly lost that Sturm fight...he looked flabby and uninterested...as he did in the Hopkins fight.

I agree, he didn't perform all that great in his biggest fights...when it counted. I felt like he beat himself in those big fights...maybe he put too much pressure on himself mentally, before he even stepped in the ring.

Oscar did fade in the Mayweather fight, and people were wondering why he "stopped using the jab", which was winning him rounds. He didn't "stop" using the jab, it was taken away by Floyd, and he was only able to land it every blue moon.

Glad you brought up Matt Ryan...I HATE the Falcons. Well, I hate their fairweather fans, but the team is okay. laugh.gif Did you REALLY like the DLH/Hopkins fight? I have to go back and watch it...its been a while.

Oh yeah, welcome to the board! Lol


Well I like that liver shot that Hopkins delivered, I felt for Oscar I mean that was a nasty shot. The Falcons suck, but I can't talk my team completely died on me this year. Its all good. Mayweather was a genius that fight. I knew he was going to win and I actually gave Mayweather 8 rounds. He just out thought Oscar.

Doniare vs. Canelo? lol.... Well I will say this Canelo would probably call him out I mean look at all the guys he fought. I lost respect for him when he fought Joseito Lopez. Criminal!
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 22 2012, 08:54 PM) *
Well I like that liver shot that Hopkins delivered, I felt for Oscar I mean that was a nasty shot. The Falcons suck, but I can't talk my team completely died on me this year. Its all good. Mayweather was a genius that fight. I knew he was going to win and I actually gave Mayweather 8 rounds. He just out thought Oscar.

Doniare vs. Canelo? lol.... Well I will say this Canelo would probably call him out I mean look at all the guys he fought. I lost respect for him when he fought Joseito Lopez. Criminal!

You have me watching the Hopkins/DLH fight now! laugh.gif I'll get back with you on the liver shot.

I hate the Falcons fans, and those bastards are playing tonight. As for the Mayweather/DLH fight, he did win about 7 or 8 rounds, but again, that was another fight where Oscar was 3 rounds down before the first bell, because his mental lapses. Dude just thought waaay too hard about fights.

Lol at the Canelo joke, I take it that you read my sig.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 22 2012, 05:59 PM) *
You have me watching the Hopkins/DLH fight now! laugh.gif I'll get back with you on the liver shot.

I hate the Falcons fans, and those bastards are playing tonight. As for the Mayweather/DLH fight, he did win about 7 or 8 rounds, but again, that was another fight where Oscar was 3 rounds down before the first bell, because his mental lapses. Dude just thought waaay too hard about fights.

Lol at the Canelo joke, I take it that you read my sig.


The worse fans in this planet are the Eagles. Falcon fans actually think they are going to the Superbowl this is a boxing site so I will keep on topic. The liver shot was painful to watch and reminded of what happen to Hatton in his comeback fight. It just was awful to look at. The look on Oscar's face was classic! Yeah I was looking at your sig. I mean hey if Manny can jump a million weight classes I am sure The Filipino Flab (guy is flabby on all sides) Doniare can too. The guy has no muscle at all. He looks flabby in all his fights I hope Mares knocks his head off.

checkleft
I like Oscar he was a solid boxer a great olympian awesome for boxing. I think he's short of being great boxing wise but popularity wise he's just as great as anyone who's laced up gloves, he was bigger than manny and mat in his time and he was a "playboy".

Only thing I wish he would have gotten was that Trinidad W, if that would have gone the right way theirs no telling how much more popular he would have been. Mexicans would have loved him for that
Dolimite
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 23 2012, 12:47 AM) *
I like Oscar he was a solid boxer a great olympian awesome for boxing. I think he's short of being great boxing wise but popularity wise he's just as great as anyone who's laced up gloves, he was bigger than manny and mat in his time and he was a "playboy".

Only thing I wish he would have gotten was that Trinidad W, if that would have gone the right way theirs no telling how much more popular he would have been. Mexicans would have loved him for that


Mexicans especially Mexican Americans love Oscar, still to this day they love Oscar. I remember when Oscar was hyping up Victor Ortiz during the promotion for Mayweather and Ortiz, when Floyd said he already beat Oscar's ass the crowd immediately turned on Floyd! It was great. Let me reiterate, I think Oscar is a good fighter with an amazing following, like that hater Merchant said "Floyd craves for Oscar's fame and Oscar craves for Floyd's skill" or something to that affect. Oscar only lost six matches but those matches were against great opponents, in their prime. he just could get that big win. I was happy he beat Fernando Vargas simply because I got tired of Vargas referring to himself as the Aztec warrior.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 22 2012, 10:02 PM) *
The worse fans in this planet are the Eagles. Falcon fans actually think they are going to the Superbowl this is a boxing site so I will keep on topic. The liver shot was painful to watch and reminded of what happen to Hatton in his comeback fight. It just was awful to look at. The look on Oscar's face was classic! Yeah I was looking at your sig. I mean hey if Manny can jump a million weight classes I am sure The Filipino Flab (guy is flabby on all sides) Doniare can too. The guy has no muscle at all. He looks flabby in all his fights I hope Mares knocks his head off.

Philly fans are the worse, period. Lol

I hated it for Ricky too, but you cant say that he wasn't open for it all night. Oscar's delayed reaction to the body shot, made it seem fixed, but seeing it from another angle, told the story.


daprofessor
always the brides maid...never the bride.

he lost his biggest fights and won a bunch controversially. i thought he lost to john john molina, whitaker, sturm and quartey could have gone either way.

his biggest wins were chavez(past it), camacho(past it), campas(past it) and vargas(past it)
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 24 2012, 06:16 PM) *
always the brides maid...never the bride.

he lost his biggest fights and won a bunch controversially. i thought he lost to john john molina, whitaker, sturm and quartey could have gone either way.

his biggest wins were chavez(past it), camacho(past it), campas(past it) and vargas(past it)


That is a great analogy! Never the bride, never was is absolutely right. The Sweet Pea fight till this day pisses me off and I still say he lost to Ike.

@CShel86 Arum accused Oscar of taking a dive that fight but if you saw the way his entire body shifted when that punch hit...NASTY! it was like his nerves had to catch up to the pain. The dude was crying. Ricky took a hellva shot and I am glad he stayed down he tried to get up but there was no way he was getting up. No way.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 24 2012, 10:48 PM) *
That is a great analogy! Never the bride, never was is absolutely right. The Sweet Pea fight till this day pisses me off and I still say he lost to Ike.

@CShel86 Arum accused Oscar of taking a dive that fight but if you saw the way his entire body shifted when that punch hit...NASTY! it was like his nerves had to catch up to the pain. The dude was crying. Ricky took a hellva shot and I am glad he stayed down he tried to get up but there was no way he was getting up. No way.


thanks man! btw...cool screen name!
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 24 2012, 11:08 PM) *
thanks man! btw...cool screen name!


If I could get the soundtracks on vinyl to Dolemite ( I spell mine with an "i" because there is only one Dolemite) I would be "that guy." Do you box or train. Just by your writing you seem to have in dept knowledge of the sport.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 25 2012, 03:12 AM) *
If I could get the soundtracks on vinyl to Dolemite ( I spell mine with an "i" because there is only one Dolemite) I would be "that guy." Do you box or train. Just by your writing you seem to have in dept knowledge of the sport.


used to box...now a trainer. dolemite is the shit! i'm sure u can find the vinyls...here u go...
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 25 2012, 01:47 AM) *
used to box...now a trainer. dolemite is the shit! i'm sure u can find the vinyls...here u go...


Thanks Professor! Good look. If Oscar was in his prime do you think he would school Canelo? I think he would murder Canelo with his jab. I think Canelo has an average ring IQ. he is more flash than substance. He reminds me of Jason Williams aka white chocolate when he was playing, great in certain instances but overall he is okay that is how I feel about Canelo.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 24 2012, 10:48 PM) *
@CShel86 Arum accused Oscar of taking a dive that fight but if you saw the way his entire body shifted when that punch hit...NASTY! it was like his nerves had to catch up to the pain. The dude was crying. Ricky took a hellva shot and I am glad he stayed down he tried to get up but there was no way he was getting up. No way.

I cant even speak on what Arum says nowadays, let alone, back then. I believe he and Oscar were in the middle of parting ways. Everyone keeps saying that Oscar left TR around 2002, but he was still dealing with Arum around 2005. I have to go back and check it out though.

Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 25 2012, 04:15 PM) *
I cant even speak on what Arum says nowadays, let alone, back then. I believe he and Oscar were in the middle of parting ways. Everyone keeps saying that Oscar left TR around 2002, but he was still dealing with Arum around 2005. I have to go back and check it out though.


Arum made this big deal about Oscar taking a dive in the fight it was pathetic really. That shot hurt me. No one would take that punishment Oscar had to go up in weight and fight a very skilled fighter. You know what is sad, that Golden Boy and TR can't just squash whatever issues they have and make great fights. Rios and Guerrero would be a hell of a fight! But since they are on different sides it will never happen. \

Back to Oscar, he fought everyone but lost the big fights which is why I do not consider him great, a good fighter but not great. Back to your sig: I wouldn't be surprised if that fight actually happens when Doniare gets to 130 or 135 lol!
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 22 2012, 01:04 PM) *
Great thread!

I would rate the Sturm "victory" over the Quartey victory. The Quartey fight was very close.

As for his career...his fan base was his biggest asset. Dude could fight just about anybody and do some decent numbers. Not all fighters have that luxury. I just didn't like his lack of confidence from time to time, but he fought just about everybody that was put in front of him.

Am I in the minority here?



Actually he lost the Sturm fight IMO and I thought he lost the Quartey fight as well but as stated he did fight everyone though. He was another fighter would did great with fighters who just came straight forward like Mayorga and JLC Sr.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 25 2012, 08:00 PM) *
Thanks Professor! Good look. If Oscar was in his prime do you think he would school Canelo? I think he would murder Canelo with his jab. I think Canelo has an average ring IQ. he is more flash than substance. He reminds me of Jason Williams aka white chocolate when he was playing, great in certain instances but overall he is okay that is how I feel about Canelo.


jason williams the basketball player? wow! i haven't heard that name in quite a while. laugh.gif

i think a prime dlh beats canelo because of the jab and superior feet. canelo is a decent counterpuncher. he has skills...but he's not the great fighter they're making him out to be. they don't have confidence in the kid. if they did...they would have matched him against solid opposition.
bnoles4life
DLH's legacy...I'll take the easy route here:

To quote Morris Day from the Time: "Fish net, black pantyhose...."
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 26 2012, 02:10 PM) *
jason williams the basketball player? wow! i haven't heard that name in quite a while. laugh.gif

i think a prime dlh beats canelo because of the jab and superior feet. canelo is a decent counterpuncher. he has skills...but he's not the great fighter they're making him out to be. they don't have confidence in the kid. if they did...they would have matched him against solid opposition.


Yeah the basketball player. I remember when he first came out he played for Sacramento and people were going ape over Jason Williams aka white chocolate, they loved him but once pressure was put on him the kid was DONE! I think the same will happen with opposition with Canelo. The moment he faces someone with any ring IQ he is done.

Professor imagine the May 4th with this under card: Victor Ortiz vs. Andre Berto Canelo vs. Trout and Mayweather vs. Juan.
daprofessor
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 26 2012, 09:21 PM) *
DLH's legacy...I'll take the easy route here:

To quote Morris Day from the Time: "Fish net, black pantyhose...."


laugh.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 27 2012, 03:54 AM) *
Yeah the basketball player. I remember when he first came out he played for Sacramento and people were going ape over Jason Williams aka white chocolate, they loved him but once pressure was put on him the kid was DONE! I think the same will happen with opposition with Canelo. The moment he faces someone with any ring IQ he is done.

Professor imagine the May 4th with this under card: Victor Ortiz vs. Andre Berto Canelo vs. Trout and Mayweather vs. Juan.


yeah...i hear u on canelo.

ortiz/berto... yes (loser retires)

canelo/trout... hell yeah!!! (trout is going to school him)

mayweather/juan...eh. i'd rather see him in with guerrero.




Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 25 2012, 09:37 PM) *
Arum made this big deal about Oscar taking a dive in the fight it was pathetic really. That shot hurt me. No one would take that punishment Oscar had to go up in weight and fight a very skilled fighter. You know what is sad, that Golden Boy and TR can't just squash whatever issues they have and make great fights. Rios and Guerrero would be a hell of a fight! But since they are on different sides it will never happen. \

Back to Oscar, he fought everyone but lost the big fights which is why I do not consider him great, a good fighter but not great. Back to your sig: I wouldn't be surprised if that fight actually happens when Doniare gets to 130 or 135 lol!

Im not even looking forward to either parties making amends. Bob recently made it clear that he didn't want to make a Rios/Matthysse fight, or a Mares/Donaire fight. He also went on to say that GBP doesn't know how to do business, and so forth. I have to find the link to that article...it couldn't have been longer than a month ago.

QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Dec 26 2012, 08:47 AM) *
Actually he lost the Sturm fight IMO and I thought he lost the Quartey fight as well but as stated he did fight everyone though. He was another fighter would did great with fighters who just came straight forward like Mayorga and JLC Sr.

I believe he lost that fight as well, I just wrote it wrong. I described what kind of "shape" he was in, in that Sturm fight. The Quartey fight was close, but I believe I gave to Quartey by a point or two (I gotta find Mit's "DLH/Quartey" revisited thread).

QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 26 2012, 08:21 PM) *
DLH's legacy...I'll take the easy route here:

To quote Morris Day from the Time: "Fish net, black pantyhose...."

laugh.gif

Right on!

Honestly, had he not gotten embarrassed by Manny, I believe he would've had a few more fights, regardless of his retirement schedule that he spewed before the Forbes fight.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 27 2012, 11:37 AM) *
Im not even looking forward to either parties making amends. Bob recently made it clear that he didn't want to make a Rios/Matthysse fight, or a Mares/Donaire fight. He also went on to say that GBP doesn't know how to do business, and so forth. I have to find the link to that article...it couldn't have been longer than a month ago.


I believe he lost that fight as well, I just wrote it wrong. I described what kind of "shape" he was in, in that Sturm fight. The Quartey fight was close, but I believe I gave to Quartey by a point or two (I gotta find Mit's "DLH/Quartey" revisited thread).


laugh.gif

Right on!

Honestly, had he not gotten embarrassed by Manny, I believe he would've had a few more fights, regardless of his retirement schedule that he spewed before the Forbes fight.


Who is really responsible for Oscar's success of Golden Boy? Is it Oscar or is it his people behind him? What I find interesting about Oscar is he worked the hell out of what he had and so far he is doing a great job. Oscar still is on that blow. He always looks high
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 12:00 PM) *
Who is really responsible for Oscar's success of Golden Boy? Is it Oscar or is it his people behind him? What I find interesting about Oscar is he worked the hell out of what he had and so far he is doing a great job. Oscar still is on that blow. He always looks high

I agree 100%. It appears to be a 50/50 thing. Oscar's popularity along with Eric Gomez and Richard Shaefer (sp), made GBP what it is today. I'm wondering the company still has money issues like it did not too long ago.

They've been putting together some interesting cards over the past couple of years...I'm wondering if they're getting a decent return on those cards (money wise).
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