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BrutUalBK
I know everyone saw the first fight and has already made up in their minds that JMM wouldn't stand much of a chance but you have to consider all of these factors before rushing to judgment based on their previous bout:

1. Floyd moved around using his legs throughout most of the fight and is now older and tends to stay in the pocket and take more punches as a result of it.

2. Floyd is older, yeah, I know so is Marquez but inactivity by Mayweather could affect his timing and it appears to me that he is missing a lot of punches that he used to land with ease before he started taking longer breaks in between fights since getting older, plus with JMM's effective counterpunching, increased speed and power it probably wouldn't take as much to at least knock Floyd down.

3. JMM has trained correctly and it showed in his last fight and he will not be grossly outweighed like he was in their first bout.

4. I think JMM has proven now that he has the power to KO anyone at WW so he may have a slight punching power advantage over FMJr even at his advanced age.

5. Confidence (not Overconfidence), well we know who's confidence is riding higher now. JMM can go into the rematch thinking to himself "I faced the man some people said that you've been ducking for years", so with this it runs in his favor but wait, Floyd does have the win over him and is undefeated, younger, taller and the P4P Champion.

Now, I'm not saying that JMM wins in a rematch but I think he fairs far better than the first bout so don't shoot me too full of holes for suggesting this idea that he does fair better. lol

Your thoughts???
mitukczuk
The thing is...there is no reason for a rematch. Floyd DOMINATED him...and when I say DOMINATED I mean....DOOOMINAAAATEEEED.

1. To me hes more dangerous in the pocket. And..I don't know where people are getting the legs issue, hes still fresher on them than 80% of young up and coming fighters.
2. The only fight I saw him miss "a lot" of punches is the Cotto fight...and Cotto was looking spectacular that night (for a Cotto of late)...not to mention he still came up short.
3. Weight was not an issue in their first fight imo. The skills were. Floyd trains incorrectly or.....can't see your point.
4. Well placed, timed and "invisible" shot doesn't mean that there is "Ill knock all them mfkers out" power behind it. A good strong jab can daze you and put you on your ass.
5. I think that knocking the f out the God himself wouldn't be enough to get Floyd off of the confidence throne.

Though I dissagree with almost all your points, I have to admit this fight can happen since money talk and Marquez's stock has been raised a bit...but still...Floyd doesn't really need to gie him a rematch...
mgrover
I would be lying if i said i wouldn't like to see a rematch, but aside from Marquez's new body nothings really changed unless he decides to fight with the intention like he did with Pac and allow Mayweather to be the aggressor. Thats the big hole in Marquez he isn't a offensive fighter, in the first fight he tried to be and look what happened.
leonthegee
Marquez still cant slip a left hook to save his life. Floyd basically beat Marquez with one hand in the last fight. I dont care how good Marquez's body looked in the last fight thats not gonna change that fact. Floyd outclasses Marquez in every aspect of the fight a second time. Mayweather Marquez 2 will make Speed 2 look like Die Hard 2.
Cshel86
Fight 'em Floyd! To hell with Guerrero!
p4pcrown
Different fight, same ending
Cshel86
Marquez DID just come off of the BIGGEST win of his career. Hmm....

When everybody thought Cotto was done, he beat Margarito and got a big fight.

When everybody thought Mosley was, he beat Margarito and got a big fight.

When everybody thought Ortiz was done, he beat Berto and got a big fight.

Wasn't this JMM/Pac 4, the biggest knockout and upset of the year?

Hasn't Marquez always complained about how he made weight for the first Mayweather fight? Didn't be look better in the 3rd and 4th Pacquiao fight because he put on the weight properly this time around? Didn't he weigh 144 when Floyd weighed 146 for the first fight? What would be wrong with Juan making that SAME 144 lbs comfortably this time? Didn't Juan just prove that he's comfortable fighting at WW?

Hmmm....me thinks that Marquez just ruined Guerrero's plans.

cool.gif
BoxingStill#1
Pacs style makes Marquez look real good..

Floyds style makes Marquez look like an amature..

Its a style clash here. If were are talking about who fights better backing up its hard to say and debatable,.. if we are talking about whos better comming forward we know who takes it..

Size or no size it would be very simular to the first fight, Marquez just cant find Floyed.

(But id pay for it tho:)
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 22 2012, 11:35 AM) *
The thing is...there is no reason for a rematch. Floyd DOMINATED him...and when I say DOMINATED I mean....DOOOMINAAAATEEEED.

1. To me hes more dangerous in the pocket. And..I don't know where people are getting the legs issue, hes still fresher on them than 80% of young up and coming fighters.
2. The only fight I saw him miss "a lot" of punches is the Cotto fight...and Cotto was looking spectacular that night (for a Cotto of late)...not to mention he still came up short.
3. Weight was not an issue in their first fight imo. The skills were. Floyd trains incorrectly or.....can't see your point.
4. Well placed, timed and "invisible" shot doesn't mean that there is "Ill knock all them mfkers out" power behind it. A good strong jab can daze you and put you on your ass.
5. I think that knocking the f out the God himself wouldn't be enough to get Floyd off of the confidence throne.

Though I dissagree with almost all your points, I have to admit this fight can happen since money talk and Marquez's stock has been raised a bit...but still...Floyd doesn't really need to gie him a rematch...



1. While I agree with point one about he's more dangerous in the pocket he does tend to get hit more often. I guess people are getting the leg issues because they're basing it on his previous performances, especially the likes of those fought against Corrales and Castillo were he moved more using his legs and since moving up he hasn't used them all that much after the Baldomir fight.

2. It seems we are on the same page here regarding Floyd's timing being off, he did miss a lot of punches<<that's timing.

3. I never said that weight was an issue nor was I trying to imply that it was. I agree that it was Floyd's skills that made all the difference and as far as you not being able to see my point, I was talking about Marquez not training properly to prepare himself to get stronger with his strength and conditioning coach and adding the weight properly that he would've needed to contend with the bigger fighters. Look at this version of JMM vs the last one that fought Pac, they're virtually two different body types Pac faced.

4. I've boxed and sparred for many years so I'm well aware about what a jab or the so called "invisible" shot (the one you don't see) can do to you so I'm not sure where you're going with your comments regarding this post.

5. Again, it appears we agree here so I'm not sure why you made the statement that you disagree with almost all my points. At no time did I suggest that JMM beats Floyd and at no time did I devalue the skills of Mayweather. I believe it is going to take a special fighter and a special moment for that one fighter to come along and beat Floyd but I just don't see that fighter on the horizon as of yet.

Here are my points about Floyd's advantages over JMM:

1. Already has a dominating win over him
2. He's more highly skillled both defensively and offensively
3. He's faster
4. He's younger
5. He's taller
6. He has the reach advantage
7. He is undefeated
8. P4P #1 (never doubted by me)
9. Been in less ring wars, taken less wear and tear over the years
10. Pac rejected 40 million dollars to fight him but took much less to face Marquez a 4th time.
Dolimite
Marquez beat Pacquiao with one devastating counter right hand. No doubt, but look at his opponent. Manny was reckless, he jumped into that punch blindly. Manny was tagging Juan all night with his speed, not accuracy just speed. Juan looked slower and he even looked like he was tiring out. Yes Juan was bigger and willing to take a beating to land that shot and the risk paid off. Mayweather wouldn't even come close to making all the silly mistakes Manny did. He would pace himself and eventually make Juan say "no mas." With Juan being slower and Mayweather willing to stand toe to toe this fight would look similar to the Gatti fight if not worse. I would say this fight would end in a stoppage. Mayweather would want to prove that Juan is far below his level which would further prove to Skip Bayless, Michael Wilbon and the rest of the idiots who actually think Manny would have a chance to pick off Mayweather. What makes Mayweather great is his boxing IQ and his willingness to adjust. Most fighters stick to one game plan Mayweather has several he is like Randy Johnson, the guy had a million different pitches, Mayweather has a million different looks and strategies. The guy is a genius. This fight would be twenty times worse. I would rather see this fight than Robert Guerrero.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 23 2012, 09:23 AM) *
Marquez beat Pacquiao with one devastating counter right hand. No doubt, but look at his opponent. Manny was reckless, he jumped into that punch blindly. Manny was tagging Juan all night with his speed, not accuracy just speed. Juan looked slower and he even looked like he was tiring out. Yes Juan was bigger and willing to take a beating to land that shot and the risk paid off. Mayweather wouldn't even come close to making all the silly mistakes Manny did. He would pace himself and eventually make Juan say "no mas." With Juan being slower and Mayweather willing to stand toe to toe this fight would look similar to the Gatti fight if not worse. I would say this fight would end in a stoppage. Mayweather would want to prove that Juan is far below his level which would further prove to Skip Bayless, Michael Wilbon and the rest of the idiots who actually think Manny would have a chance to pick off Mayweather. What makes Mayweather great is his boxing IQ and his willingness to adjust. Most fighters stick to one game plan Mayweather has several he is like Randy Johnson, the guy had a million different pitches, Mayweather has a million different looks and strategies. The guy is a genius. This fight would be twenty times worse. I would rather see this fight than Robert Guerrero.

You gotta look at the money factor here...who would do more numbers...the guy who just knocked Manny the hell out, or the guy that nobody knows? Let's not forget that Juan kept complaining that "weight was a factor" in the first fight. Now that Juan appears to be a decent WW (or somewhat close), people will think the fight will go differently.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 23 2012, 06:02 PM) *
You gotta look at the money factor here...who would do more numbers...the guy who just knocked Manny the hell out, or the guy that nobody knows? Let's not forget that Juan kept complaining that "weight was a factor" in the first fight. Now that Juan appears to be a decent WW (or somewhat close), people will think the fight will go differently.


I would pay to see the Juan Marquez fight over Guerrero. Guerrero has no interest at all. He fights worse than Juan Castillo. A dirty fighter who tries to rough up his opponents. if Berto had any skills or sense he would of kept a distance and pot shot Guerrero for 12 rounds but this guy is a schizo and I realize Berto thinks he is Mayweather and Ali (his weak ass rope a dope). The fact is I am asking for the Juan fight. It will rake in money plus it would kill the 5th Pac fight for September so either way it works for me.
Franchize
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Dec 22 2012, 12:35 PM) *
The thing is...there is no reason for a rematch. Floyd DOMINATED him...and when I say DOMINATED I mean....DOOOMINAAAATEEEED.
1. To me hes more dangerous in the pocket. And..I don't know where people are getting the legs issue, hes still fresher on them than 80% of young up and coming fighters.
2. The only fight I saw him miss "a lot" of punches is the Cotto fight...and Cotto was looking spectacular that night (for a Cotto of late)...not to mention he still came up short.
3. Weight was not an issue in their first fight imo. The skills were. Floyd trains incorrectly or.....can't see your point.
4. Well placed, timed and "invisible" shot doesn't mean that there is "Ill knock all them mfkers out" power behind it. A good strong jab can daze you and put you on your ass.
5. I think that knocking the f out the God himself wouldn't be enough to get Floyd off of the confidence throne.

Though I dissagree with almost all your points, I have to admit this fight can happen since money talk and Marquez's stock has been raised a bit...but still...Floyd doesn't really need to gie him a rematch...



You know what, he dominated him too lol

I agree. He embarassed Marquez. He made him look like a C+ fighter in arguably Marquez's prime. Marquez waslike P4P #2 in the world and Floyd was coming back of a long hiatus. It got so bad that Beristain in the later rounds was telling Juan to "finish the fight with some dignity". That being said, I'd rather see that fight than see Floyd fight Guerrero. I'm sorry but I hate seeing guys talk their way into title fights. At least Canelo has the star power and marketability to warrant a Mayweather fight. What's next? Keith Thurman is going to get a Mayweather showdown too just cuz he called him out after beating up a nobody? Let's get serious here. Guys like Floyd, Marquez, Cotto and Manny earned the right to fight guys with star power. While I love seeing a challenge, I like the fanfare behind a major fight too. I like the pre-fight stuff. I cant take Guerrero serious. He's no more a threat than Marquez IMO with about 1/16th the clout and resume'. I'll take a JMM Marquez vs Mayweather 2 fight. It'll thwart another Marquez vs Pacquiao fight and possibly force Manny into either fighting Floyd to prove a point or outright retiring.
Kratza
I think we all saw how slow Marquez was in the ring (footwork, reactions etc.) this would just be Floyd proving a point if this fight happened again, Floyd by UD or late stoppage
Franchize
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 23 2012, 09:02 PM) *
You gotta look at the money factor here...who would do more numbers...the guy who just knocked Manny the hell out, or the guy that nobody knows? Let's not forget that Juan kept complaining that "weight was a factor" in the first fight. Now that Juan appears to be a decent WW (or somewhat close), people will think the fight will go differently.

Funny part is, you never saw Marquez once ask for a rematch though lol. This is a guy who was willing to rematch Manny three times to prove a point. But with Floyd its not that serious lmao.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 23 2012, 09:38 PM) *
I would pay to see the Juan Marquez fight over Guerrero. Guerrero has no interest at all. He fights worse than Juan Castillo. A dirty fighter who tries to rough up his opponents. if Berto had any skills or sense he would of kept a distance and pot shot Guerrero for 12 rounds but this guy is a schizo and I realize Berto thinks he is Mayweather and Ali (his weak ass rope a dope). The fact is I am asking for the Juan fight. It will rake in money plus it would kill the 5th Pac fight for September so either way it works for me.

Yep. Juan knocking out Manny at a comfortable 144 lbs, will leave people wondering if he can do it to somebody else. You know how people are. This is just another huge payday for Floyd and Juan. Not only that, but this will be a low-risk/high reward fight, and a good look (numbers wise), before a September clash with Canelo.

QUOTE (Franchize @ Dec 24 2012, 02:39 AM) *
You take a JMM Marquez vs Mayweather 2 fight. It'll thwart another Marquez vs Pacquiao fight and possibly force Manny into either fighting Floyd to prove a point or outright retiring.

Good point

QUOTE (Franchize @ Dec 24 2012, 10:27 AM) *
Funny part is, you never saw Marquez once ask for a rematch though lol. This is a guy who was willing to rematch Manny three times to prove a point. But with Floyd its not that serious lmao.

I found that funny as well, but in all actuality (hope I used that right), Marquez probably thought that he'd never be in another fight above 135 or 140. He was clearly outclassed, but he blamed it more on on the weight than anything.

He'll clearly get picked apart in a rematch, but let's face it, he's HOT right now....why not strike while the iron's hot? That's another big payday for him, and if Manny decides to fight him again, that'll be another payday. He could even fight Bradley...the guy who "beat" Manny. It's all about money and promotion and money.

At Juan's age, the intensity of these fights will be dangerous, but I'm sure his wife wont complain about new home reservations, vacations, and putting the kids through college. laugh.gif
daprofessor
the rematch may be worse for marquez. he's slowing down and is still a counter puncher. floyd will still sit on that back foot and make him pay all day. if jmm's confidence leads him to believe he can be more aggressive with floyd, that will only play into floyds hands much the same way pacs aggressiveness played into jmm's hands. no need for the rematch and i seriously doubt marquez wants it.

guerrero will give floyd a much tougher fight. mark my words.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 24 2012, 09:29 PM) *
if jmm's confidence leads him to believe he can be more aggressive with floyd, that will only play into floyds hands much the same way pacs aggressiveness played into jmm's hands. no need for the rematch and i seriously doubt marquez wants it.

He just knocked out one of the biggest stars in boxing...Im sure he has all types of confidence right now. Hell, I know I would. I doubt if Marquez wants the rematch too, but millions of dollars, usually negates a sane man's thought process. laugh.gif

He got about $6M for his last fight...I wouldn't doubt if he got about $8M for a Mayweather rematch. In a way, I hate that Floyd picked him the first time, and made him look bad. He was just too small. He was always smaller than Manny, and now that he bulked up, he was able to finish Manny. The average casual fan will gravitate towards a Mayweather rematch, for that reason alone. Weird, but "fans" are the ones who make up for the majority of the PPV purchases.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 24 2012, 06:37 PM) *
He just knocked out one of the biggest stars in boxing...Im sure he has all types of confidence right now. Hell, I know I would. I doubt if Marquez wants the rematch too, but millions of dollars, usually negates a sane man's thought process. laugh.gif

He got about $6M for his last fight...I wouldn't doubt if he got about $8M for a Mayweather rematch. In a way, I hate that Floyd picked him the first time, and made him look bad. He was just too small. He was always smaller than Manny, and now that he bulked up, he was able to finish Manny. The average casual fan will gravitate towards a Mayweather rematch, for that reason alone. Weird, but "fans" are the ones who make up for the majority of the PPV purchases.



Well Floyd wouldn't of picked him Juan didn't call him out. Sometimes you get what you ask for. I respect Juan, he is a accountant and I have lots of respect for accountants (they keep my money right). Not only that but he seems like a real dude, the dude never gave up on his dream of proving to the world that Manny was a fluke and he had what it took to put an end to a hype job! Kudos to Juan. I wouldn't mind seeing this fight, it will get the casual fans involve. Mayweather will get crucified for it but hell I will watch it!
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 24 2012, 09:57 PM) *
Well Floyd wouldn't of picked him Juan didn't call him out. Sometimes you get what you ask for. I respect Juan, he is a accountant and I have lots of respect for accountants (they keep my money right). Not only that but he seems like a real dude, the dude never gave up on his dream of proving to the world that Manny was a fluke and he had what it took to put an end to a hype job! Kudos to Juan. I wouldn't mind seeing this fight, it will get the casual fans involve. Mayweather will get crucified for it but hell I will watch it!


Isn't the double standard something when it comes to Floyd? Why is it that Manny can fight JMM 4 times and now everyone is even talking about a possible 5th bout but he takes very little of a lashing from the public? Imagine if Floyd decided it would've been best for him to face Victor Ortiz 2 or 3 more times based on how some people felt about the outcome of their fight.

I never suggested that JMM should seek out a 2nd fight vs Floyd because I don't believe the outcome would be any different from the first but I just thought some may believe that he'd fare better based on his newfound strength and conditioning training and now having time to settle in as a true WW.

The time is now though for JMM to strike and say he wants a 2nd fight if he was ever considering dancing again with FLoyd, however we didn't ever hear of him even entertaining the idea of a rematch because even he himself knows the weight wasn't the major factor in why he lost that fight.

If anyone has cared to notice Juan has been adamant about his prediction of Floyd being able to beat Manny and I'd say that he's in the best place in the world to be able to speak on this having faced both of them.

Juan is a stand up dude, has never backed down from anyone and deserves whatever fight he wants after smashing Manny in dominating fashion, so if he calls out Floyd or Mayweather calls him out then regardless of what I believe the outcome will be you can guarantee that I will order the PPV.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 24 2012, 09:37 PM) *
He just knocked out one of the biggest stars in boxing...Im sure he has all types of confidence right now. Hell, I know I would. I doubt if Marquez wants the rematch too, but millions of dollars, usually negates a sane man's thought process. laugh.gif

He got about $6M for his last fight...I wouldn't doubt if he got about $8M for a Mayweather rematch. In a way, I hate that Floyd picked him the first time, and made him look bad. He was just too small. He was always smaller than Manny, and now that he bulked up, he was able to finish Manny. The average casual fan will gravitate towards a Mayweather rematch, for that reason alone. Weird, but "fans" are the ones who make up for the majority of the PPV purchases.


he was shutout against floyd. he didn't win a single round. ppl remember that. i seriously doubt anyone wants to watch that happen again. also, if i'm jmm...i know how that plays out. i don't want to end my career on a down note. u can keep ur extra 2 million and i'll keep my dignity. laugh.gif he should go after that 5th title in a 5th weight class to separate himself from the rest of the mexican atg's.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 25 2012, 01:50 AM) *
he was shutout against floyd. he didn't win a single round. ppl remember that. i seriously doubt anyone wants to watch that happen again. also, if i'm jmm...i know how that plays out. i don't want to end my career on a down note. u can keep ur extra 2 million and i'll keep my dignity. laugh.gif he should go after that 5th title in a 5th weight class to separate himself from the rest of the mexican atg's.

Do you mean 147 or 154?
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 25 2012, 03:03 AM) *
Do you mean 147 or 154?


147. 154 is out of the question....

actually...he only has an interim title at 140. maybe he should get both 140 and 147?


mgrover
I'd Marquez to get the fight for a nice payday, but there's nothing he can do different is there now. I mean for the Pac fight has he really changed throughout the 4 fights? Or have they both done the same thing, with Marquez improving how he throws that right hand lol
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 25 2012, 12:50 AM) *
he was shutout against floyd. he didn't win a single round. ppl remember that. i seriously doubt anyone wants to watch that happen again. also, if i'm jmm...i know how that plays out. i don't want to end my career on a down note. u can keep ur extra 2 million and i'll keep my dignity. laugh.gif he should go after that 5th title in a 5th weight class to separate himself from the rest of the mexican atg's.

I get your point, but I'd much rather him end his career on a down note against the best fighter in the world for an even nicer payday, than to go out on a down note against the likes of Rios for lesser money. If the purse isn't that big (especially for a Rios fight), then Juan shouldn't even feel good about getting the bigger split.

That 5th title is around Floyd's waist. He could also go after Bradley or Malignaggi, but going after the payday seems a bit smarter (in my opinion). His other Mexican counterparts haven't really even won that many titles in different weight (I may be wrong). Morales was handed his title, and he owns the right to being the first to beat Manny on U.S. soil. Juan put Manny's lights out...Im not sure the effect will be the same if another fighter did it. Lol
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 25 2012, 04:05 PM) *
I get your point, but I'd much rather him end his career on a down note against the best fighter in the world for an even nicer payday, than to go out on a down note against the likes of Rios for lesser money. If the purse isn't that big (especially for a Rios fight), then Juan shouldn't even feel good about getting the bigger split.

That 5th title is around Floyd's waist. He could also go after Bradley or Malignaggi, but going after the payday seems a bit smarter (in my opinion). His other Mexican counterparts haven't really even won that many titles in different weight (I may be wrong). Morales was handed his title, and he owns the right to being the first to beat Manny on U.S. soil. Juan put Manny's lights out...Im not sure the effect will be the same if another fighter did it. Lol


Bradley I can see but Paulie I rather not. That would be an utter massacre. Floyd would actually stand in front of Paulie and beat him senseless! Come on cousin, we want Paulie to have a commentating career after boxing. That fight would be a sacrifice and I am Floyd fan but I would have issues with him fighting Paulie. I would say Bradley I mean he is "undefeated." Actually I would love to see Mayweather fight Canelo to put an end to the hype that is Canelo. I just want to see way gay ass robe Canelo will be wearing to the fight. Floyd should ask for the Bradley fight let's face it Arum isn't really pro team Bradley so having Bradley taking a loss wouldn't be that big of a deal.
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 23 2012, 09:23 AM) *
Marquez beat Pacquiao with one devastating counter right hand. No doubt, but look at his opponent. Manny was reckless, he jumped into that punch blindly. Manny was tagging Juan all night with his speed, not accuracy just speed. Juan looked slower and he even looked like he was tiring out. Yes Juan was bigger and willing to take a beating to land that shot and the risk paid off. Mayweather wouldn't even come close to making all the silly mistakes Manny did. He would pace himself and eventually make Juan say "no mas." With Juan being slower and Mayweather willing to stand toe to toe this fight would look similar to the Gatti fight if not worse. I would say this fight would end in a stoppage. Mayweather would want to prove that Juan is far below his level which would further prove to Skip Bayless, Michael Wilbon and the rest of the idiots who actually think Manny would have a chance to pick off Mayweather. What makes Mayweather great is his boxing IQ and his willingness to adjust. Most fighters stick to one game plan Mayweather has several he is like Randy Johnson, the guy had a million different pitches, Mayweather has a million different looks and strategies. The guy is a genius. This fight would be twenty times worse. I would rather see this fight than Robert Guerrero.

This thread should've been locked/closed after your fact-filled comment was posted.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 25 2012, 06:04 AM) *
147. 154 is out of the question....

actually...he only has an interim title at 140. maybe he should get both 140 and 147?

I thought his last fight with manny was at 147 (4th fight)
MaxPayne
I would love to see this fight. I'm a huge fan of JMM, steroids or not, because he's an exquisite boxer with an aggressive persona. There's nothing I love watching more than an aggressive counterpuncher/technician going to work.

I believe a fight like this would net JMM anywhere from $8 MM - $12 MM when you consider PPV proceeds, etc.

However, as has been the case for years, I only have 2 words to dash our hopes for this fight.

Bob. Arum.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 26 2012, 06:28 AM) *
I would love to see this fight. I'm a huge fan of JMM, steroids or not, because he's an exquisite boxer with an aggressive persona. There's nothing I love watching more than an aggressive counterpuncher/technician going to work.

I believe a fight like this would net JMM anywhere from $8 MM - $12 MM when you consider PPV proceeds, etc.

However, as has been the case for years, I only have 2 words to dash our hopes for this fight.

Bob. Arum.



Bob Arum could care less about feeding the likes of JMM to the wolves, however he did an excellent job of protecting Manny from Floyd and in the process blew a 40 million dollar payday (I wonder how many fights it would take for Manny to earn that kind of money now).

I'd still love to see Floyd tax that a$$ on Manny but even at this stage I still believe that Bob will not put him in the ring vs Floyd, what I think we'll see is Pac get a crack at the straight-forward style of guys like Rios to help build back up his reputation as some type of slugger (I never really saw him that way).

If JMM does not get a shot at the likes of Floyd then obviously he should fish out a 5th fight with Manny if for nothing else except making more money this time around and cementing his dominance with another rousing KO to seal the deal. At this point JMM is a bonafide Superstar on par with Manny and just under Floyd and at the very least then he and Bradley should square off with the winner getting Floyd.
Franchize
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Dec 26 2012, 08:44 AM) *
Bob Arum could care less about feeding the likes of JMM to the wolves, however he did an excellent job of protecting Manny from Floyd and in the process blew a 40 million dollar payday (I wonder how many fights it would take for Manny to earn that kind of money now).

I'd still love to see Floyd tax that a$$ on Manny but even at this stage I still believe that Bob will not put him in the ring vs Floyd, what I think we'll see is Pac get a crack at the straight-forward style of guys like Rios to help build back up his reputation as some type of slugger (I never really saw him that way).

If JMM does not get a shot at the likes of Floyd then obviously he should fish out a 5th fight with Manny if for nothing else except making more money this time around and cementing his dominance with another rousing KO to seal the deal. At this point JMM is a bonafide Superstar on par with Manny and just under Floyd and at the very least then he and Bradley should square off with the winner getting Floyd.

I agree. Lets face it. Arum will never care for JMM like he does Manny. Ko or no KO, Marquez will never be the star Manny is. Arum would be far more willing to feed Marquez to the wolves than Manny. Lets face it. The real reason he had Manny fight JMM that many times is because the fight will always yield money but he never thought Marquez would knock Manny out like that. He probably thought, if anything, Marquez could outpoint Manny, in which he would have to then beat the judges. Arum isnt worried about Floyd BEATING Manny. He is worried about Floyd EMBARASSING Manny and making a gigantic, Arum free, pay day in the process.
MaxPayne
Guys, salient points, but riddle me this:

When is the last time you saw ANY noteworthy Top Rank fighter get in the ring with a Golden Boy fighter ?

It simply hasn't happened, and never will.

If there is significant money to be made (as is the case with any of the well-known fighters in Top Rank's stable), Arum will never do business with Golden Boy.

Doing business with GB entails co-promoting, which neither company is willing to do.

With other promoters, Arum pays the promotional companies a fee and has a Top Rank show. Also, he is given options on the "leased" fighter.

Yeah, business as usual. Brilliant. Crafty. Heavily Profitable.

And downright disgusting for the fans.
bnoles4life
You know, I'm not throughly convinced JMM/Manny V comes off. Manny fought him this time to erase doubts and got erased. If I were a betting man, I'd think Manny's confidence, regardless of what adobe-laced "pick me up" Buboy is whispering in his ear, is pretty freak'n fragile. Remember the whole reason there was a 4th fight, was due to the controversies surrounding the series of fights (that and Bob's penchant for squeezing out $$$$) and by and large, the controversy is pretty much over. People can say he landed a "timely" punch, but they'd be wrong; JMM landed TWO timely punches. Which leads me to...

Floyd/JMM WOULD sell. Mexicans are bananas over that win. They'd market JMM as "revamped", "revitalized", etc. and (most importantly) conqueror of the guy Floyd wouldn't fight. I wouldn't mind seeing it, for no other reason, I'd like to see how JMM adjusts.
checkleft
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 26 2012, 09:00 PM) *
You know, I'm not throughly convinced JMM/Manny V comes off. Manny fought him this time to erase doubts and got erased. If I were a betting man, I'd think Manny's confidence, regardless of what adobe-laced "pick me up" Buboy is whispering in his ear, is pretty freak'n fragile. Remember the whole reason there was a 4th fight, was due to the controversies surrounding the series of fights (that and Bob's penchant for squeezing out $$$$) and by and large, the controversy is pretty much over. People can say he landed a "timely" punch, but they'd be wrong; JMM landed TWO timely punches. Which leads me to...

Floyd/JMM WOULD sell. Mexicans are bananas over that win. They'd market JMM as "revamped", "revitalized", etc. and (most importantly) conqueror of the guy Floyd wouldn't fight. I wouldn't mind seeing it, for no other reason, I'd like to see how JMM adjusts.

I would like to see the adjustment too. Tho I think mayweather still wins let's not forget Floyd wouldn't be the only masterful technician in the ring that night.
daprofessor
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 26 2012, 09:00 PM) *
You know, I'm not throughly convinced JMM/Manny V comes off. Manny fought him this time to erase doubts and got erased. If I were a betting man, I'd think Manny's confidence, regardless of what adobe-laced "pick me up" Buboy is whispering in his ear, is pretty freak'n fragile. Remember the whole reason there was a 4th fight, was due to the controversies surrounding the series of fights (that and Bob's penchant for squeezing out $$$$) and by and large, the controversy is pretty much over. People can say he landed a "timely" punch, but they'd be wrong; JMM landed TWO timely punches. Which leads me to...

Floyd/JMM WOULD sell. Mexicans are bananas over that win. They'd market JMM as "revamped", "revitalized", etc. and (most importantly) conqueror of the guy Floyd wouldn't fight. I wouldn't mind seeing it, for no other reason, I'd like to see how JMM adjusts.


good point. bob won't allow it.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 25 2012, 09:45 PM) *
Bradley I can see but Paulie I rather not. That would be an utter massacre. Floyd would actually stand in front of Paulie and beat him senseless! Come on cousin, we want Paulie to have a commentating career after boxing. That fight would be a sacrifice and I am Floyd fan but I would have issues with him fighting Paulie. I would say Bradley I mean he is "undefeated." Actually I would love to see Mayweather fight Canelo to put an end to the hype that is Canelo. I just want to see way gay ass robe Canelo will be wearing to the fight. Floyd should ask for the Bradley fight let's face it Arum isn't really pro team Bradley so having Bradley taking a loss wouldn't be that big of a deal.

I was talking about Marquez going after that 5th title, by taking on Bradley or Paulie, if a Floyd rematch doesn't happen. The fact that he was thinking of fighting Paulie and Cintron (before picking JMM) after his first retirement, should help us to not rule it out so quick. Trust me, I dont wanna see it either.

PS: Those "Jafar from Aladdin" robes look cool on Canelo...he's the only one who can pull it off.

QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 26 2012, 07:28 AM) *
However, as has been the case for years, I only have 2 words to dash our hopes for this fight.

Bob. Arum.

Does Arum even have options on Marquez at this point? I thought it was 3-fight deal, or something like that. I know Marquez fought Pacquiao (3rd fight), Fedchenko, then Manny again. Before these fights took place, JMM was still fighting under Golden Boy? I need some clarity.

Maybe he signed a longer contract than I thought. Maybe Arum's got his hand up his ass and selling him a dream to stay with company and "promise" him a bigger payday for a 5th fight. Who knows. I need help here.

QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Dec 26 2012, 08:00 PM) *
Floyd/JMM WOULD sell. Mexicans are bananas over that win. They'd market JMM as "revamped", "revitalized", etc. and (most importantly) conqueror of the guy Floyd wouldn't fight.

Couldn't agree more! Fans (especially casual ones) live in their mind and believe what they want to believe. As for Dec. 8th, I bet his fans think he has about 5 more years left under his belt, when really, he only has about two...tops. Lol
wolterb
I say he better not fight that fight and as an honorary Marquez super fan I also say he has too much sense to pursue such a useless endeavor and never would! Too smart!
Dolimite
QUOTE (wolterb @ Dec 27 2012, 05:28 PM) *
I say he better not fight that fight and as an honorary Marquez super fan I also say he has too much sense to pursue such a useless endeavor and never would! Too smart!



If the money is right he will. If it is an offer he can not refuse then Marquez will take a 12 round ass kicking.
MaxPayne
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 27 2012, 01:28 PM) *
I was talking about Marquez going after that 5th title, by taking on Bradley or Paulie, if a Floyd rematch doesn't happen. The fact that he was thinking of fighting Paulie and Cintron (before picking JMM) after his first retirement, should help us to not rule it out so quick. Trust me, I dont wanna see it either.

PS: Those "Jafar from Aladdin" robes look cool on Canelo...he's the only one who can pull it off.


Does Arum even have options on Marquez at this point? I thought it was 3-fight deal, or something like that. I know Marquez fought Pacquiao (3rd fight), Fedchenko, then Manny again. Before these fights took place, JMM was still fighting under Golden Boy? I need some clarity.

Maybe he signed a longer contract than I thought. Maybe Arum's got his hand up his ass and selling him a dream to stay with company and "promise" him a bigger payday for a 5th fight. Who knows. I need help here.


Couldn't agree more! Fans (especially casual ones) live in their mind and believe what they want to believe. As for Dec. 8th, I bet his fans think he has about 5 more years left under his belt, when really, he only has about two...tops. Lol


It's an excellent question about JMM's current contract status with Top Rank. I do remember him signing that 3 fight deal.

The thing is, Arum is usually great at covering his bases with stuff like this. I believe that since the 3rd Pacman - JMM fight, he's been in cash-out mode with regard to Manny.

Which means, that he would want to make sure that he had multiple fights left on the contracts of whoever was in line to fight Manny.

Bradley is locked down and isn't going anywhere. Rios is the same. I believe it's possible that a contract extension was carried out with JMM on the DL in advance to the 4th Pacman fight.

Remember, when Cotto was considering his options, it was pretty clear in the news that there was contract - related rumblings. We haven't heard anything similar for JMM.

If he was a promotional free agent, then I say bring it on and let's make this fight happen.

However, the very fact that Arum was quick to speak on a possible 5th Pacman fight tells me that he has a signed contract in his back pocket.

Sigh. Good men die young. Evil, slimy, wretched blood sucking parasites like Arum live forever it seems.
Franchize
Normally, I'd say n way in hell because JMM is a Top Prank guy but I can't see JMM passing on some flat rate offer Mayweather throws at him like Manny did. I can see Floyd offering Marquez like 15-20 mill and Marquez being like "Fuck you Arum, you'd better make this work." I can't see him peacefully declining like Manny has. Marquez is way more vocal about Arum. Let's not forget he accused Arum of a conspiracy after the 3rd fight.
mgrover
why would is Marquez still with top rank? I thought he had like a 3 fight deal or some shit? Or has he made it into a fully fledged thing?
wolterb
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 27 2012, 10:15 PM) *
If the money is right he will. If it is an offer he can not refuse then Marquez will take a 12 round ass kicking.


my post was disingenuous though I doubt there is an offer marquez would take to tarnish his recently resolved legacy even if it came from corleone himself.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 27 2012, 09:27 PM) *
It's an excellent question about JMM's current contract status with Top Rank. I do remember him signing that 3 fight deal.

The thing is, Arum is usually great at covering his bases with stuff like this. I believe that since the 3rd Pacman - JMM fight, he's been in cash-out mode with regard to Manny.

Which means, that he would want to make sure that he had multiple fights left on the contracts of whoever was in line to fight Manny.

Bradley is locked down and isn't going anywhere. Rios is the same. I believe it's possible that a contract extension was carried out with JMM on the DL in advance to the 4th Pacman fight.

Remember, when Cotto was considering his options, it was pretty clear in the news that there was contract - related rumblings. We haven't heard anything similar for JMM.

If he was a promotional free agent, then I say bring it on and let's make this fight happen.

However, the very fact that Arum was quick to speak on a possible 5th Pacman fight tells me that he has a signed contract in his back pocket.

Sigh. Good men die young. Evil, slimy, wretched blood sucking parasites like Arum live forever it seems.


All very excellent points, I agree that Arum has a silent contract with JMM that extended beyond the 3 fight deal. The only reason they took the 4th fight with JMM was because they were so certain that this time Pac would KO him which is why that bogus belt/Title (Champion of the Decade or whatever) was created and when Manny didn't win it they simply draped it across Marquez's shoulder and did not provide any fanfare with it when they did, it wasn't even mentioned in the ring ceremony.

Someone stated earlier that Arum and Golden Boy don't do business together as though it was a problem for GB, the only problem is Arum. Bob Arum is sore at losing out on his two biggest Cashcows (Floyd and Oscar) and he refuses to do business with them unless the money is split 50-50 or he gets the Lion's share, I believe that both Floyd and Oscar would gladly do business with him and deservingly so if they got a 55-45 deal in their favor but Bob would never agree to that.

You mentioned that Bob was in "cash out" mode with Pac since his 3rd fight with JMM but I disagree with that, I believe he was never in cash out mode until now/after the KO; however, he was in "Protect His Cashcow at all Costs" mode since he created the hype surrounding Manny which is why you never saw him face a slick fighter (other than Marquez) and why he was kept away from GB fighters (lose lose for Bob either way).

QUOTE
Normally, I'd say n way in hell because JMM is a Top Prank guy but I can't see JMM passing on some flat rate offer Mayweather throws at him like Manny did. I can see Floyd offering Marquez like 15-20 mill and Marquez being like "Fuck you Arum, you'd better make this work." I can't see him peacefully declining like Manny has. Marquez is way more vocal about Arum. Let's not forget he accused Arum of a conspiracy after the 3rd fight.



I agree with this, JMM isn't a dumb pushover like Manny. I often speculated that the reason Manny never left Bob is because Arum has all the dirt in the world that he could dish on him and that if Bob turned the damage that it could do to Pac's credibility would ruin his political campaign as well.


Cshel86
QUOTE (MaxPayne @ Dec 27 2012, 10:27 PM) *
It's an excellent question about JMM's current contract status with Top Rank. I do remember him signing that 3 fight deal.

The thing is, Arum is usually great at covering his bases with stuff like this. I believe that since the 3rd Pacman - JMM fight, he's been in cash-out mode with regard to Manny.

Which means, that he would want to make sure that he had multiple fights left on the contracts of whoever was in line to fight Manny.

Bradley is locked down and isn't going anywhere. Rios is the same. I believe it's possible that a contract extension was carried out with JMM on the DL in advance to the 4th Pacman fight.

Remember, when Cotto was considering his options, it was pretty clear in the news that there was contract - related rumblings. We haven't heard anything similar for JMM.

If he was a promotional free agent, then I say bring it on and let's make this fight happen.

However, the very fact that Arum was quick to speak on a possible 5th Pacman fight tells me that he has a signed contract in his back pocket.

Sigh. Good men die young. Evil, slimy, wretched blood sucking parasites like Arum live forever it seems.

Excellent points about Arum lining his pockets and having Manny in cash-out mode. We could still have a JMM/Bradley and a JMM/Rios fight in the wings...smart move Arum.

The talks of that 5th fight IMMEDIATELY after the ending of the 4th fight, is all too reminiscent of the ending of the 3rd fight where Arum broke his neck to announce a 4th fight. Arum's probably had his own ass covered before the ink even dried for the 4th fight.

QUOTE (Franchize @ Dec 28 2012, 07:22 AM) *
Normally, I'd say n way in hell because JMM is a Top Prank guy but I can't see JMM passing on some flat rate offer Mayweather throws at him like Manny did. I can see Floyd offering Marquez like 15-20 mill and Marquez being like "Fuck you Arum, you'd better make this work." I can't see him peacefully declining like Manny has. Marquez is way more vocal about Arum. Let's not forget he accused Arum of a conspiracy after the 3rd fight.

I couldn't see JMM passing up 15-20M offered from Mayweather (which is a crazy amount). The kicker is, Arum wouldn't even allow his biggest cash cow to accept 40M, so Juan has waaaay heavier lifting to do, before he can ever get Bob to break a sweat.

As much as I dont like Arum, truth is, Marquez wouldn't have been in a position to make a huge payday ANYWHERE else, other than under Arum's banner. IF he happens to be a free agent and GBP is entertaining a Mayweather rematch, then Juan should thank Arum for a what he did for him with the last two Manny fights.

Had Marquez not been CHALLENGED to bulk up and fight Manny for a 3rd and 4th time, I doubt if he'd have the motivation to do it against any other opponent. Honesltly, I saw Marquez losing interest in boxing (due to limited opposition) after the first Mayweather fight. Hell, he looked SO out of place while sharing the ring with a young Diaz for the first fight.

I thought we were pretty much seeing the last days of Marquez, until he got the Mayweather fight. Even in that fight, he didn't look his best...maybe because he was pissed about the weight and how Floyd handled it at the weigh-in, though I cant imagine how you could be mad at a guy for putting another $600k in your pocket.

I felt bad for Marquez for having to take a Diaz rematch, when he CLEARLY flattened Diaz in the first fight. Again, I thought we were seeing the last of him. He hit his peak in the Katsidis fight. I didn't see much motivation from him after that, though he still has the skills to fight whoever.
daprofessor
pac losing reduces payout for arum. reduced pay out to pac = more money for arum.
KOpower
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Dec 26 2012, 08:44 AM) *
Bob Arum could care less about feeding the likes of JMM to the wolves, however he did an excellent job of protecting Manny from Floyd and in the process blew a 40 million dollar payday (I wonder how many fights it would take for Manny to earn that kind of money now).

I'd still love to see Floyd tax that a$$ on Manny but even at this stage I still believe that Bob will not put him in the ring vs Floyd, what I think we'll see is Pac get a crack at the straight-forward style of guys like Rios to help build back up his reputation as some type of slugger (I never really saw him that way).

If JMM does not get a shot at the likes of Floyd then obviously he should fish out a 5th fight with Manny if for nothing else except making more money this time around and cementing his dominance with another rousing KO to seal the deal. At this point JMM is a bonafide Superstar on par with Manny and just under Floyd and at the very least then he and Bradley should square off with the winner getting Floyd.



Mayweather won't fight Manny. It's that simple. It isn't hard to understand. It is so easy to understand that even a Mayweather could do it. I don't know why Floyd is so scared...but he is. I think Floyd would handle Manny assuming Manny doesn't catch Floyd. I still think Floyd's chin is weak (ala Roy Jones) and if Pac can get to that chin it will cause damage. That has to be the reason Floyd refuses to fight him.


Manny all but called Floyd a b*tch on ESPN. He said he would take any test and he said he would agree to less money. It is what it is and Mayweather still refuses the fight. Is it sad? Of course but Floyd is scared to fight Manny. He was before and even post-KO I bet he is scared of the fight. Floyd would rather fight guys with average hand-speed than face Manny. Oh well...
daprofessor
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 28 2012, 03:31 PM) *
Mayweather won't fight Manny. It's that simple. It isn't hard to understand. It is so easy to understand that even a Mayweather could do it. I don't know why Floyd is so scared...but he is. I think Floyd would handle Manny assuming Manny doesn't catch Floyd. I still think Floyd's chin is weak (ala Roy Jones) and if Pac can get to that chin it will cause damage. That has to be the reason Floyd refuses to fight him.


Manny all but called Floyd a b*tch on ESPN. He said he would take any test and he said he would agree to less money. It is what it is and Mayweather still refuses the fight. Is it sad? Of course but Floyd is scared to fight Manny. He was before and even post-KO I bet he is scared of the fight. Floyd would rather fight guys with average hand-speed than face Manny. Oh well...


i knew my filipino brethren would be back! smile.gif

welcome back brother!!! we missed u guys.

let the learning begin...since pac is pretty much done, u might as well learn more about boxing.

jmm is a smaller, slower, less creative, counter puncher that is easier to hit than floyd. floyd is not scared of pac...never has been. arum never wanted the fight. pac had plenty of opportunities to make it.
sduck
Same fight, same results. Marquez himself said weight wasn't an issue when he fought Mayweather, it's just how their styles matched up. Mayweather would be dumb to bring the fight to Marquez if there were a rematch, it'd just be the same fight, with the same result. Probably worse. Marquez looks slower to me now than before.

QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 28 2012, 02:31 PM) *
Mayweather won't fight Manny. It's that simple. It isn't hard to understand. It is so easy to understand that even a Mayweather could do it. I don't know why Floyd is so scared...but he is. I think Floyd would handle Manny assuming Manny doesn't catch Floyd. I still think Floyd's chin is weak (ala Roy Jones) and if Pac can get to that chin it will cause damage. That has to be the reason Floyd refuses to fight him.


Manny all but called Floyd a b*tch on ESPN. He said he would take any test and he said he would agree to less money. It is what it is and Mayweather still refuses the fight. Is it sad? Of course but Floyd is scared to fight Manny. He was before and even post-KO I bet he is scared of the fight. Floyd would rather fight guys with average hand-speed than face Manny. Oh well...

Oh look at here its a pactard.
KOpower
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 28 2012, 03:40 PM) *
i knew my filipino brethren would be back! smile.gif

welcome back brother!!! we missed u guys.

let the learning begin...since pac is pretty much done, u might as well learn more about boxing.

jmm is a smaller, slower, less creative, counter puncher that is easier to hit than floyd. floyd is not scared of pac...never has been. arum never wanted the fight. pac had plenty of opportunities to make it.


Filipino? I am a white that couldn't care less about Manny or Floyd outside of boxing. I am not a fan of Manny. I am a HUGE fan of Floyd as a boxer, but don't think anything of him as a man.


Floyd is 100% scared of Manny. Why else would he not fight him? Floyd is all about the money and Pac clearly represented the most. Say what you want about Arum but Manny himself went on TV and said he would take less money and agree to the test. I wanted Floyd and Manny to fight BADLY, but Floyd was scared.

I agree with you about the fight. I do think Floyd would pick Manny apart. With that being said, Manny has hand speed that Floyd hasn't seen since Judah and we all know that Judah got to that chin a few times and dropped Floyd early in their fight. Manny, like Judah, is a southpaw with great hand speed. Manny also has more power and is a better overall fighter than Judah. That would be the only real mystery in the fight.
Hotsauce
this fight would easily sell especially on cinco de mayo. it could do more than floyd/cotto.
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