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Gambit808
Look I don't wanna be a buzz kill here, but there is nothing that warrants Marquez (besides money) to be in a rematch with Floyd. Besides Pacquiao whom he fought 4 times he hasent fought a credible opponent he didn't already know since Katsidis 2010. Unlike Pacquiao, when Floyd fought Marquez and Knocked him down, Marquez didn't get back up and start to figure out Mayweather. it was Pretty Much Down hill from the opening bell. Besides Power, Timing & Beard, everything else about Marquez of old as oppose to the new is faded. Mayweather & Marquez are both counter punchers and if there fight showed anything it's that Floyd is better Offensively, Defensively and timing as opposed to Marquez all with a 2 year layoff. Check the stats!

First fight against Pacquiao he gets knocked down 3 times figures him out... Draw

2nd fight he gets knocked down 1 time figures him out even had Pacquiao hurt a few times... SD Pacquiao

3rd fight... Well he already had him figured in the 1st 2 fights, this time he avoids getting knocked down... MD Pacquiao

4th fight... Well he should have his pace down now over a 8 year span all it takes is power and timing... KO Marquez

Point is, a KO of a normally Offensive fighter who hadnt really changed pace in all 4 fights and arguably was solved in 3 of em, shouldn't be seen as the ultimate reason Marquez can do anything dramatic if he rematched Floyd. Thats like saying Auturo Gatti deserved a rematch. He was clearly beaten.
daprofessor
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 28 2012, 05:39 PM) *
Filipino? I am a white that couldn't care less about Manny or Floyd outside of boxing. I am not a fan of Manny. I am a HUGE fan of Floyd as a boxer, but don't think anything of him as a man.


Floyd is 100% scared of Manny. Why else would he not fight him? Floyd is all about the money and Pac clearly represented the most. Say what you want about Arum but Manny himself went on TV and said he would take less money and agree to the test. I wanted Floyd and Manny to fight BADLY, but Floyd was scared.

I agree with you about the fight. I do think Floyd would pick Manny apart. With that being said, Manny has hand speed that Floyd hasn't seen since Judah and we all know that Judah got to that chin a few times and dropped Floyd early in their fight. Manny, like Judah, is a southpaw with great hand speed. Manny also has more power and is a better overall fighter than Judah. That would be the only real mystery in the fight.


i was just messing with u. laugh.gif

seriously though...i do not believe floyd was ever scared. if i was the type to listen and believe guys like skip clueless or scoop malinowski...maybe i'd think that...but i actually know a little about boxing so that puts me light years ahead of those guys or the tards who believe them when it comes to understanding the sport of boxing. it's really simple to me. pac made demands...floyd agreed to them and came back with his own demand that pac wouldn't agree to. arum did a great job of riffing off of that disagreement and got ppl to believe a bunch of bullshit. it's now been brought to light that there have been shills on the take who wrote articles selling the lie that floyd was afraid of pac and so on and so forth. one thing we know for sure...arum and floyd still have unsettled business in court regarding floyd/judah. floyd is still owed money by arum. we also know that floyd bought his way out of his contract with arum...so going back into business with him with a pending lawsuit...and the history of the big one getting away from arum...do u honestly believe these guys could come to acceptable terms for them to fight? i believe the closest we came to having the fight was when floyd let it be known he was willing to fight pac before he went to prison. he even offered pac 40 mil. that's waaaaaaay more than pac has ever made. what did bob say? we need to build a new stadium to make that fight....blah,blah,blah...more excuses and bullshit.

i'm actually glad the fight didn't happen because i think it's better for boxing. a bunch of fans will still stick around crying about what shoulda/coulda happened...as opposed to actually having a definitive end where i believe ppl (pac fans mainly) would have been so disappointed at the outcome they would have sworn off boxing completely.

do i think floyd is free of blame? no. i never bought into the whole notion that pac was on p.e.d's or any of that. floyd's stance, i believe, was about pride and wanting to put pac to shame. i believe that even if pac was on something...floyd still would have beat him...but to floyd that wouldn't have been enough. he would had to have the lions share...he'd have to expose the "sham" that is pac's career...and just totally humiliate him. all of that was not necessary imo. i think if floyd would have taken a closer look...he would have realized that pac had all that success because the careful use of smoke and mirrors in the form of contractual stipulations/weight drain game, careful/selective matchmaking, coaching issues...and just the fact that pac is/was something special. the problem with all of this...the ppl who are writing the history for why this event never happened are driven by hate, envy, malice and just plain old racism....so it's not really looking good for floyd.
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 28 2012, 05:21 PM) *
i was just messing with u. laugh.gif

seriously though...i do not believe floyd was ever scared. if i was the type to listen and believe guys like skip clueless or scoop malinowski...maybe i'd think that...but i actually know a little about boxing so that puts me light years ahead of those guys or the tards who believe them when it comes to understanding the sport of boxing. it's really simple to me. pac made demands...floyd agreed to them and came back with his own demand that pac wouldn't agree to. arum did a great job of riffing off of that disagreement and got ppl to believe a bunch of bullshit. it's now been brought to light that there have been shills on the take who wrote articles selling the lie that floyd was afraid of pac and so on and so forth. one thing we know for sure...arum and floyd still have unsettled business in court regarding floyd/judah. floyd is still owed money by arum. we also know that floyd bought his way out of his contract with arum...so going back into business with him with a pending lawsuit...and the history of the big one getting away from arum...do u honestly believe these guys could come to acceptable terms for them to fight? i believe the closest we came to having the fight was when floyd let it be known he was willing to fight pac before he went to prison. he even offered pac 40 mil. that's waaaaaaay more than pac has ever made. what did bob say? we need to build a new stadium to make that fight....blah,blah,blah...more excuses and bullshit.

i'm actually glad the fight didn't happen because i think it's better for boxing. a bunch of fans will still stick around crying about what shoulda/coulda happened...as opposed to actually having a definitive end where i believe ppl (pac fans mainly) would have been so disappointed at the outcome they would have sworn off boxing completely.

do i think floyd is free of blame? no. i never bought into the whole notion that pac was on p.e.d's or any of that. floyd's stance, i believe, was about pride and wanting to put pac to shame. i believe that even if pac was on something...floyd still would have beat him...but to floyd that wouldn't have been enough. he would had to have the lions share...he'd have to expose the "sham" that is pac's career...and just totally humiliate him. all of that was not necessary imo. i think if floyd would have taken a closer look...he would have realized that pac had all that success because the careful use of smoke and mirrors in the form of contractual stipulations/weight drain game, careful/selective matchmaking, coaching issues...and just the fact that pac is/was something special. the problem with all of this...the ppl who are writing the history for why this event never happened are driven by hate, envy, malice and just plain old racism....so it's not really looking good for floyd.



Professor school em! Both parties are to blame but I give the higher percentage to TR and Co. Great post as always!
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 02:35 AM) *
Professor school em! Both parties are to blame but I give the higher percentage to TR and Co. Great post as always!


thanks! smile.gif
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 28 2012, 01:12 PM) *
pac losing reduces payout for arum. reduced pay out to pac = more money for arum.

Manny: Ehhh, Bob, uhhh, I want $25M for my next uhhh, fightuuhh...
Bob: Look kid, you just lost your last two fights, so there isn't much money out there, ya know?
Manny: Uhh okaay, so what money are weee uhh looking at?
Bob: Okay Manny, I can give you $20M, but thats about it son. Win your next fight, then we can work out some figures.
*Bob pays Manny pennies, and pockets the profits...and shows NOBODY his books for the fight*

QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 28 2012, 02:31 PM) *
Mayweather won't fight Manny. It's that simple. It isn't hard to understand. It is so easy to understand that even a Mayweather could do it. I don't know why Floyd is so scared...but he is. I think Floyd would handle Manny assuming Manny doesn't catch Floyd. I still think Floyd's chin is weak (ala Roy Jones) and if Pac can get to that chin it will cause damage. That has to be the reason Floyd refuses to fight him.


Manny all but called Floyd a b*tch on ESPN. He said he would take any test and he said he would agree to less money. It is what it is and Mayweather still refuses the fight. Is it sad? Of course but Floyd is scared to fight Manny. He was before and even post-KO I bet he is scared of the fight. Floyd would rather fight guys with average hand-speed than face Manny. Oh well...

How long have you been hibernating man? You're saying stuff that was being said 2-3 years ago. Is your ass still hurting about Manny getting knocked out? That's the big elephant in the room...and Floyd's $32M that he made in his last fight.

QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 28 2012, 03:40 PM) *
since pac is pretty much done, u might as well learn more about boxing.

laugh.gif

QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Dec 28 2012, 06:49 PM) *
Look I don't wanna be a buzz kill here, but there is nothing that warrants Marquez (besides money) to be in a rematch with Floyd.

*Cshel blows the whistle and calls a timeout*

Wait a minute Gambit, let me stop you there brother....the first line of your post tells the story here. Dont be a buzz kill and end up getting a technical foul! laugh.gif

*Game resumes*
KOpower
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Dec 28 2012, 06:49 PM) *
Look I don't wanna be a buzz kill here, but there is nothing that warrants Marquez (besides money) to be in a rematch with Floyd. Besides Pacquiao whom he fought 4 times he hasent fought a credible opponent he didn't already know since Katsidis 2010. Unlike Pacquiao, when Floyd fought Marquez and Knocked him down, Marquez didn't get back up and start to figure out Mayweather. it was Pretty Much Down hill from the opening bell. Besides Power, Timing & Beard, everything else about Marquez of old as oppose to the new is faded. Mayweather & Marquez are both counter punchers and if there fight showed anything it's that Floyd is better Offensively, Defensively and timing as opposed to Marquez all with a 2 year layoff. Check the stats!

First fight against Pacquiao he gets knocked down 3 times figures him out... Draw

2nd fight he gets knocked down 1 time figures him out even had Pacquiao hurt a few times... SD Pacquiao

3rd fight... Well he already had him figured in the 1st 2 fights, this time he avoids getting knocked down... MD Pacquiao

4th fight... Well he should have his pace down now over a 8 year span all it takes is power and timing... KO Marquez

Point is, a KO of a normally Offensive fighter who hadnt really changed pace in all 4 fights and arguably was solved in 3 of em, shouldn't be seen as the ultimate reason Marquez can do anything dramatic if he rematched Floyd. Thats like saying Auturo Gatti deserved a rematch. He was clearly beaten.



What the hell are you talking about?

Look, Manny offered Floyd more money and he aid he would take ANY test he would want. Manny has never ducked anyone. Say what you want but the guy has fought them all. Floyd continued to deny the fight. I never thought Floyd was scared until I saw Manny come out in public and tell Floyd he would agree to all of his stipulations. Floyd's response? Quiet. That's it. That was when I had enough. Enough is enough. Floyd loves to brag about the money he makes, yet he refuses to fight the guy that would give him the biggest payday of his entire career after that same guy was giving in to almost EVERY single stipulation that Floyd put in place.

Manny was actually very respectful of Floyd. He didn't even want to call the guy out. Matter of fact Floyd nut-hugger Stephen A. Smith even conceded that Floyd was scared.

It has nothing to do with hate, racism, or envy. Floyd is just scared to fight Manny. It is a shame because he is so talented, but I think Floyd is so concerned with the idea of a loss that he takes on guys he knows he will handle.
Dolimite
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 29 2012, 01:28 PM) *
What the hell are you talking about?

Look, Manny offered Floyd more money and he aid he would take ANY test he would want. Manny has never ducked anyone. Say what you want but the guy has fought them all. Floyd continued to deny the fight. I never thought Floyd was scared until I saw Manny come out in public and tell Floyd he would agree to all of his stipulations. Floyd's response? Quiet. That's it. That was when I had enough. Enough is enough. Floyd loves to brag about the money he makes, yet he refuses to fight the guy that would give him the biggest payday of his entire career after that same guy was giving in to almost EVERY single stipulation that Floyd put in place.

Manny was actually very respectful of Floyd. He didn't even want to call the guy out. Matter of fact Floyd nut-hugger Stephen A. Smith even conceded that Floyd was scared.

It has nothing to do with hate, racism, or envy. Floyd is just scared to fight Manny. It is a shame because he is so talented, but I think Floyd is so concerned with the idea of a loss that he takes on guys he knows he will handle.


What does Manny have that would make Floyd afraid of him? Cotto poised a great risk to May than Manny would. If you say speed and footwork would scare Manny, just look what a 40 year old SLOW Marquez did with that foot speed and hand speed, he neutralized it with intelligence and counter punching. Like Roger Mayweather said "speed don't mean shit if you don't know how to use it." So what does Manny have that has Floyd scared? I am just curious. Remember Roy Jones even stated that May hits harder than Manny, but he doesn't know shit about boxing either according to some.
daprofessor
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 29 2012, 04:28 PM) *
What the hell are you talking about?

Look, Manny offered Floyd more money and he aid he would take ANY test he would want. Manny has never ducked anyone. Say what you want but the guy has fought them all. Floyd continued to deny the fight. I never thought Floyd was scared until I saw Manny come out in public and tell Floyd he would agree to all of his stipulations. Floyd's response? Quiet. That's it. That was when I had enough. Enough is enough. Floyd loves to brag about the money he makes, yet he refuses to fight the guy that would give him the biggest payday of his entire career after that same guy was giving in to almost EVERY single stipulation that Floyd put in place.

Manny was actually very respectful of Floyd. He didn't even want to call the guy out. Matter of fact Floyd nut-hugger Stephen A. Smith even conceded that Floyd was scared.

It has nothing to do with hate, racism, or envy. Floyd is just scared to fight Manny. It is a shame because he is so talented, but I think Floyd is so concerned with the idea of a loss that he takes on guys he knows he will handle.


your are losing credibility by the second....just leave it alone man. it's clear that u are not educated enough on this topic when u start to interject stephen smith into your argument. again....feel free to learn more about boxing. your opinion does matter here, just not on this particular subject because u really don't know what you're talking about.
mgrover
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 29 2012, 08:28 PM) *
What the hell are you talking about?

Look, Manny offered Floyd more money and he aid he would take ANY test he would want. Manny has never ducked anyone. Say what you want but the guy has fought them all. Floyd continued to deny the fight. I never thought Floyd was scared until I saw Manny come out in public and tell Floyd he would agree to all of his stipulations. Floyd's response? Quiet. That's it. That was when I had enough. Enough is enough. Floyd loves to brag about the money he makes, yet he refuses to fight the guy that would give him the biggest payday of his entire career after that same guy was giving in to almost EVERY single stipulation that Floyd put in place.

Manny was actually very respectful of Floyd. He didn't even want to call the guy out. Matter of fact Floyd nut-hugger Stephen A. Smith even conceded that Floyd was scared.

It has nothing to do with hate, racism, or envy. Floyd is just scared to fight Manny. It is a shame because he is so talented, but I think Floyd is so concerned with the idea of a loss that he takes on guys he knows he will handle.


Please stop your making Pac fans like me look bad.

There are three people to blame for this I think, Mayweather, Pac and Arum.

Mayweather - daprofessor already said it, I don't understand why Mayweather was so intent on smearing Pac with the whole PED bullshit but it obviously didn't work whether it be trash talk or not.

Arum - He's the biggest reason for this fight not happening, he didn't want to cash in Pac just yet, not against Mayweather and Al Haymon, now he can't cash in Pac, that chips worthless so hes lost out.

Pac - Just before Marquez 4 he had the chance to leave Top Rank, but it seems a trick with 50 cent and some shit convinced him that a Mayweather fight was being made? WTF is this motherfucking this stupid, this is whats pissed me off his entire career, this guy is too nice, stupid or whatever for his own good, because boxing business isn't hard work, I don't understand why people say Mayweather is a business man, he isn't shit, Al Haymons behind all that. It's simple, everyone in boxing is out for there's and the sooner you understand that the sooner you can make money when your in a good position, ie a decent fan base and some decent wins and titles. So I don't understand why Pac was so gullible to believe that Arum didn't have his own agenda. I know he likes to be a nice guy and all that shit, but really? Can a governor of a state of his country be that fucking stupid. He seems like a puppet whose a shadow of power to be used. Thats it.
Gambit808
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 29 2012, 03:28 PM) *
What the hell are you talking about?

Look, Manny offered Floyd more money and he aid he would take ANY test he would want. Manny has never ducked anyone. Say what you want but the guy has fought them all. Floyd continued to deny the fight. I never thought Floyd was scared until I saw Manny come out in public and tell Floyd he would agree to all of his stipulations. Floyd's response? Quiet. That's it. That was when I had enough. Enough is enough. Floyd loves to brag about the money he makes, yet he refuses to fight the guy that would give him the biggest payday of his entire career after that same guy was giving in to almost EVERY single stipulation that Floyd put in place.

Manny was actually very respectful of Floyd. He didn't even want to call the guy out. Matter of fact Floyd nut-hugger Stephen A. Smith even conceded that Floyd was scared.

It has nothing to do with hate, racism, or envy. Floyd is just scared to fight Manny. It is a shame because he is so talented, but I think Floyd is so concerned with the idea of a loss that he takes on guys he knows he will handle.

I'm arguing against the topic at hand here, your still stuck on the same outdated argument of yester-year. No point to go back and forward with the whole "agree to disagree" Mayweather vs. Pacquiao who did this, who did that shit because at the end of the day u can find a reason to blaim all parties involved. The End. let's move on.

NOW, MARQUEZ'S KO over Pacquiao, SHOULD NOT WARRANT HIM TO A REMATCH WITH FLOYD! We seen why Marquez got his rematch against Pac, what I must of missed or didn't see is why he should get one against a guy who clearly dominated him. I mean COMPLETLY dominated him.

Basically saying "that was then, this is now" is not a good enough arguement for me. It's like saying Diego Corrales deserved a rematch after he TKO'd Castillo.
sduck
No offense to KOpower, but I just want to say you guys handled that ignorance well. Came off looking like educated boxing fans and not flomos, good job.
sduck
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 29 2012, 08:05 PM) *
Please stop your making Pac fans like me look bad.

There are three people to blame for this I think, Mayweather, Pac and Arum.

Mayweather - daprofessor already said it, I don't understand why Mayweather was so intent on smearing Pac with the whole PED bullshit but it obviously didn't work whether it be trash talk or not.

Arum - He's the biggest reason for this fight not happening, he didn't want to cash in Pac just yet, not against Mayweather and Al Haymon, now he can't cash in Pac, that chips worthless so hes lost out.

Pac - Just before Marquez 4 he had the chance to leave Top Rank, but it seems a trick with 50 cent and some shit convinced him that a Mayweather fight was being made? WTF is this motherfucking this stupid, this is whats pissed me off his entire career, this guy is too nice, stupid or whatever for his own good, because boxing business isn't hard work, I don't understand why people say Mayweather is a business man, he isn't shit, Al Haymons behind all that. It's simple, everyone in boxing is out for there's and the sooner you understand that the sooner you can make money when your in a good position, ie a decent fan base and some decent wins and titles. So I don't understand why Pac was so gullible to believe that Arum didn't have his own agenda. I know he likes to be a nice guy and all that shit, but really? Can a governor of a state of his country be that fucking stupid. He seems like a puppet whose a shadow of power to be used. Thats it.

I have to disagree on that. Mayweather has done pretty well for himself as an athlete whole for history's sake. It's not like he's Al Haymon's only fighter. Mayweather doesn't talk much about his income outside of boxing, but I have heard him mention in interviews about other investments, like his real estate team. Real Estate is the greatest lifelong investment anyone can make.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Dec 28 2012, 05:49 PM) *
Look I don't wanna be a buzz kill here, but there is nothing that warrants Marquez (besides money) to be in a rematch with Floyd. Besides Pacquiao whom he fought 4 times he hasent fought a credible opponent he didn't already know since Katsidis 2010. Unlike Pacquiao, when Floyd fought Marquez and Knocked him down, Marquez didn't get back up and start to figure out Mayweather. it was Pretty Much Down hill from the opening bell. Besides Power, Timing & Beard, everything else about Marquez of old as oppose to the new is faded. Mayweather & Marquez are both counter punchers and if there fight showed anything it's that Floyd is better Offensively, Defensively and timing as opposed to Marquez all with a 2 year layoff. Check the stats!

First fight against Pacquiao he gets knocked down 3 times figures him out... Draw

2nd fight he gets knocked down 1 time figures him out even had Pacquiao hurt a few times... SD Pacquiao

3rd fight... Well he already had him figured in the 1st 2 fights, this time he avoids getting knocked down... MD Pacquiao

4th fight... Well he should have his pace down now over a 8 year span all it takes is power and timing... KO Marquez

Point is, a KO of a normally Offensive fighter who hadnt really changed pace in all 4 fights and arguably was solved in 3 of em, shouldn't be seen as the ultimate reason Marquez can do anything dramatic if he rematched Floyd. Thats like saying Auturo Gatti deserved a rematch. He was clearly beaten.

No one here disputes that JMM was clearly beaten by Floyd at all but this is boxing and in this business you have to strike while it's hot and right now there is no other fighter on the current scene hotter than JMM after his stunning KO of Pacquiao.

I never suggested that JMM could beat Floyd or do any better in the rematch for that matter regardless of those who think weight was an issue and despite Marquez's better strength and conditioning regimen and his so called "adjustment to the weight" but again, this is boxing and JMM did beat the man who some of these blinded Pacquiao fans are saying that he (Floyd) was afraid to face and when you couple the rousing KO victory in with that notion you can see how the Promoters could spin this into some type of superbout (though those of us who really know the sport knows Floyd just gives us an encore performance).

mgrover
QUOTE (sduck @ Dec 30 2012, 06:29 PM) *
I have to disagree on that. Mayweather has done pretty well for himself as an athlete whole for history's sake. It's not like he's Al Haymon's only fighter. Mayweather doesn't talk much about his income outside of boxing, but I have heard him mention in interviews about other investments, like his real estate team. Real Estate is the greatest lifelong investment anyone can make.


fair enough I didn't know that. but the point still stands, everyone in boxing is out for there's. Mayweather understands this to say the least, so I don't understand why Pac doesn't seem to?
Dolimite
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 30 2012, 06:58 PM) *
fair enough I didn't know that. but the point still stands, everyone in boxing is out for there's. Mayweather understands this to say the least, so I don't understand why Pac doesn't seem to?


Because 8 million dollars goes a very long way in his country. Some people are not business savvy. Jack Johnson got ripped off, Joe Louis did as well, Mike Tyson was raped out of hundreds of millions. Some boxers are smarter businessmen. Mayweather seems to be the type to ask questions, I think Manny like so many others trust the wrong people. I don't think it is because he is a nice guy or humble, I just think he doesn't know any better. The guy never had an education, he is from the gutter he is doing very well for himself. I just hope he doesn't have to fight to make ends meat.
Gambit808
[quote name='BrutUalBK' date='Dec 30 2012, 8:04 PM' post='571408']
this is boxing and JMM did beat the man who some of these blinded Pacquiao fans are saying that he (Floyd) was afraid to face and when you couple the rousing KO victory in with that notion you can see how the Promoters could spin this into some type of superbout (though those of us who really know the sport knows Floyd just gives us an encore performance).
[\quote]
I understand your point, I just don't understand the point lol

Probably because I am a fan of boxing. It sounds like (to me) it would add on to Boxing's many flaws suggesting "no matter how one-sided or shut-out a fighter is beaten, if u beat another guy u already fought more times than 1, then u can be back in the picture of a rematch with the guy who dominated u"

It's just that my understanding of a rematch should be warranted if (the loser) Fighter A, gave hell to (the winner) Fighter B enough to convince that he has a shot at turning the tables the next time out, not what Fighter A does to Fighter C, Follow?
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 29 2012, 07:28 PM) *
your are losing credibility by the second....just leave it alone man. it's clear that u are not educated enough on this topic when u start to interject stephen smith into your argument. again....feel free to learn more about boxing. your opinion does matter here, just not on this particular subject because u really don't know what you're talking about.


+1

Anybody who cites smith or skip.... Matter of fact anybody from ESPN with the exception of atlas needs to educate themselves more on the sweet science. As roger would say, "they don't know shit about boxing".
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 29 2012, 03:28 PM) *
What the hell are you talking about?

Look, Manny offered Floyd more money and he aid he would take ANY test he would want. Manny has never ducked anyone. Say what you want but the guy has fought them all. Floyd continued to deny the fight. I never thought Floyd was scared until I saw Manny come out in public and tell Floyd he would agree to all of his stipulations. Floyd's response? Quiet. That's it. That was when I had enough. Enough is enough. Floyd loves to brag about the money he makes, yet he refuses to fight the guy that would give him the biggest payday of his entire career after that same guy was giving in to almost EVERY single stipulation that Floyd put in place.

Manny was actually very respectful of Floyd. He didn't even want to call the guy out. Matter of fact Floyd nut-hugger Stephen A. Smith even conceded that Floyd was scared.

It has nothing to do with hate, racism, or envy. Floyd is just scared to fight Manny. It is a shame because he is so talented, but I think Floyd is so concerned with the idea of a loss that he takes on guys he knows he will handle.
***sarcasm detected***
Franchize
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 31 2012, 02:31 AM) *
+1

Anybody who cites smith or skip.... Matter of fact anybody from ESPN with the exception of atlas needs to educate themselves more on the sweet science. As roger would say, "they don't know shit about boxing".


+2 I'll take it a step further. I knew once I saw "Manny offered Floyd..." he didn't know WTF he was talkign about lol Manny can't offer anything. He doesn't even own his own balls.
KOpower
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 05:09 PM) *
What does Manny have that would make Floyd afraid of him? Cotto poised a great risk to May than Manny would. If you say speed and footwork would scare Manny, just look what a 40 year old SLOW Marquez did with that foot speed and hand speed, he neutralized it with intelligence and counter punching. Like Roger Mayweather said "speed don't mean shit if you don't know how to use it." So what does Manny have that has Floyd scared? I am just curious. Remember Roy Jones even stated that May hits harder than Manny, but he doesn't know shit about boxing either according to some.


If I had to guess I would say that it is Manny's unique combination of speed and power. Cotto didn't pose a greater threat. Cotto is a traditional, orthodox fighter. Manny has really fast hands and he throws punches from all sorts of unique angles. Cotto...not so much. I think Floyd believes that Manny, more than anyone else out there, has the ability to get to that chin of his. I think that scares the sh*t out of Floyd. We saw Zab Judah drop Floyd and Judah is a poor man's Pacquaio. We have seen Mayweather get ROCKED by Chop-Chop. We saw him get rocked by Mosley. None of those guys have the hand-speed that Manny does. I think Floyd's chin is really suspect. I think if Manny finds it, he can do real damage. THAT would be the biggest question to me.


Look, if the 2 guys box then Mayweahter whips him. Period. Everyone knows that. The only question is whether Manny can get to Floyd early and hurt him. If that happens, then Manny either becomes the Antonio Tarver to Floyd's Roy Jones (KO) or he stuns Mayweather to the point where he gets even more defensive allowing Manny to rack up points and rounds in the process.


Manny STILL provides the best challenge to Floyd by a country mile. I hope it happens. I want to see Floyd in there with a fighter that can get to that chin of his. I still think Floyd wins...don't get me wrong...but Manny is really the only challenge that is out there for Floyd. Robert Guerrero has no chance and neither does Andre Berto. A rematch with Cotto gives us more of the same. Canelo is mildly interesting but I see that fight going the same way as the Cotto one. The only other fighter I really want to see Floyd in with is Broner.


But like I said, I truly feel that Floyd is worried that Manny would beat him. We will see over the next 18 months. I have seen enough from Manny to believe that he truly wants the fight. What more would Mayweather fans want? He has said he would give him a larger share of the money. He has said he would agree to ALL the tests. He went on national TV and essentially called Floyd out. Floyd remained quiet.


I am not a Manny fan. I am not a Mayweather fan. I am a guy that wanted Mayweather to fight Manny early so I could bet HEAVILY on Mayweather. I was planning on betting (and then winning) $5k on Mayweather and then letting that $5k pay for my trip to vegas/ticket for the fight. That was back when Pac was an absurd favorite. Since then I have been convinced that Mayweather is the one that stands in the way of the fight being made, NOT Manny.
checkleft
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 31 2012, 10:26 AM) *
If I had to guess I would say that it is Manny's unique combination of speed and power. Cotto didn't pose a greater threat. Cotto is a traditional, orthodox fighter. Manny has really fast hands and he throws punches from all sorts of unique angles. Cotto...not so much. I think Floyd believes that Manny, more than anyone else out there, has the ability to get to that chin of his. I think that scares the sh*t out of Floyd. We saw Zab Judah drop Floyd and Judah is a poor man's Pacquaio. We have seen Mayweather get ROCKED by Chop-Chop. We saw him get rocked by Mosley. None of those guys have the hand-speed that Manny does. I think Floyd's chin is really suspect. I think if Manny finds it, he can do real damage. THAT would be the biggest question to me.


Look, if the 2 guys box then Mayweahter whips him. Period. Everyone knows that. The only question is whether Manny can get to Floyd early and hurt him. If that happens, then Manny either becomes the Antonio Tarver to Floyd's Roy Jones (KO) or he stuns Mayweather to the point where he gets even more defensive allowing Manny to rack up points and rounds in the process.


Manny STILL provides the best challenge to Floyd by a country mile. I hope it happens. I want to see Floyd in there with a fighter that can get to that chin of his. I still think Floyd wins...don't get me wrong...but Manny is really the only challenge that is out there for Floyd. Robert Guerrero has no chance and neither does Andre Berto. A rematch with Cotto gives us more of the same. Canelo is mildly interesting but I see that fight going the same way as the Cotto one. The only other fighter I really want to see Floyd in with is Broner.


But like I said, I truly feel that Floyd is worried that Manny would beat him. We will see over the next 18 months. I have seen enough from Manny to believe that he truly wants the fight. What more would Mayweather fans want? He has said he would give him a larger share of the money. He has said he would agree to ALL the tests. He went on national TV and essentially called Floyd out. Floyd remained quiet.


I am not a Manny fan. I am not a Mayweather fan. I am a guy that wanted Mayweather to fight Manny early so I could bet HEAVILY on Mayweather. I was planning on betting (and then winning) $5k on Mayweather and then letting that $5k pay for my trip to vegas/ticket for the fight. That was back when Pac was an absurd favorite. Since then I have been convinced that Mayweather is the one that stands in the way of the fight being made, NOT Manny.

1st bold... Did you just really call Judah a poor man's pac?!?!? It's nice that you've taken interest in boxing but that's just criminal! Lol 1st of all Judah and corley are your basic southpaws, manny is NOT, he squares up and basically negates his position against the conventional stance (hints to why he got put to sleep). Second you said thay whoever boxes Floyd will lose no doubt, but the reason mosley Judah and corley hurt Floyd is because they were BOXING HIM.

2nd and most importantly! What most casual fans don't seem to understand (including ESPN watchers and employees) is that manny CANNOT OFFER FLOYD ANYTHING. He is not his own boss, he can't dictate any terms any stipulations dates ect! Bob arum makes every boxing decision for manny, until his contract is up. Why do you think we got a 4th marquez fight instead of a Bradley rematch which is what pac publicly asked for and said he wanted?!?!? The only reason manny went out on ESPN and called Floyd out (might I add while he already had a fight schedule which would have made it impossible to make the fight) is to promote the marquez fight. He was just using floyds name to gain attention as Floyd does to him, you think its a coincidence thay Floyd always seems to announce his comebacks or fights right before pac fights? No dude he knows everyone is getting excited about boxing around that time so the announcement will he stronger.
KOpower
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 31 2012, 09:42 AM) *
1st bold... Did you just really call Judah a poor man's pac?!?!? It's nice that you've taken interest in boxing but that's just criminal! Lol 1st of all Judah and corley are your basic southpaws, manny is NOT, he squares up and basically negates his position against the conventional stance (hints to why he got put to sleep). Second you said thay whoever boxes Floyd will lose no doubt, but the reason mosley Judah and corley hurt Floyd is because they were BOXING HIM.

2nd and most importantly! What most casual fans don't seem to understand (including ESPN watchers and employees) is that manny CANNOT OFFER FLOYD ANYTHING. He is not his own boss, he can't dictate any terms any stipulations dates ect! Bob arum makes every boxing decision for manny, until his contract is up. Why do you think we got a 4th marquez fight instead of a Bradley rematch which is what pac publicly asked for and said he wanted?!?!? The only reason manny went out on ESPN and called Floyd out (might I add while he already had a fight schedule which would have made it impossible to make the fight) is to promote the marquez fight. He was just using floyds name to gain attention as Floyd does to him, you think its a coincidence thay Floyd always seems to announce his comebacks or fights right before pac fights? No dude he knows everyone is getting excited about boxing around that time so the announcement will he stronger.



1. I didn't mean that Judah was the same type of fighter in terms of style. By saying "poor man's Judah" I just meant that Manny and Judah both are southpaws with power and hand speed. Manny is just more dangerous, partly due to the unique way he fights. It was a poor choice of words by me, but I didn't think anyone would take those wouds so literally.


2. Manny most certainly does offer Floyd a great deal. He represents the largest payday in the history of Floyd's career. He is also the biggest legacy fight for Floyd. Instead of are getting stuck with Floyd vs who...Robert Guerrero? Really? That is what Floyd is giving his fans? Robert Guerrero? Color me unimpressed. And regardless, doesn't Robert Guerrero have a promoter? Doesn't Canelo? Come on man.

KOpower
By the way, I still think this fight could and should happen. Manny is still the biggest money fight for Mayweather. Manny is still the biggest challenge. Beating Manny still does the most for his legcay by a wide margin. There is no question about it. I am stunned that so many poeple think there is no chance the fight comes off now.
neophyte7
It is hard to sell Pac being able to beat Mayweather now that he was face first and nearly brain dead from the hands of a man Mayweather treated like a little baby in the ring. Pac would get his ass handed to him... the right hand of mayweather is pretty deadly.. Juan has laid a blue print to beating Pac... side step and the quick right hand counter prior to the one that KOd Pac I saw Marquez stun him with the same shot in earlier rounds... counter punching is something mayweather is even better at than Juan Marquez. Also, Pac wings alot of shots that don't land. Marquez was able to defend against most of his shots thrown. Manny's ability to connect against Mayweather will be even more difficult. Pac has to Ko Marquez or Bradley to generate buzz for a Mayweather fight... I don't think he has it in him. He is a fighter in regression in my view...
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 31 2012, 09:26 AM) *
If I had to guess I would say that it is Manny's unique combination of speed and power. Cotto didn't pose a greater threat. Cotto is a traditional, orthodox fighter. Manny has really fast hands and he throws punches from all sorts of unique angles. Cotto...not so much. I think Floyd believes that Manny, more than anyone else out there, has the ability to get to that chin of his. I think that scares the sh*t out of Floyd. We saw Zab Judah drop Floyd and Judah is a poor man's Pacquaio. We have seen Mayweather get ROCKED by Chop-Chop. We saw him get rocked by Mosley. None of those guys have the hand-speed that Manny does. I think Floyd's chin is really suspect. I think if Manny finds it, he can do real damage. THAT would be the biggest question to me.


Look, if the 2 guys box then Mayweahter whips him. Period. Everyone knows that. The only question is whether Manny can get to Floyd early and hurt him. If that happens, then Manny either becomes the Antonio Tarver to Floyd's Roy Jones (KO) or he stuns Mayweather to the point where he gets even more defensive allowing Manny to rack up points and rounds in the process.


Manny STILL provides the best challenge to Floyd by a country mile. I hope it happens. I want to see Floyd in there with a fighter that can get to that chin of his. I still think Floyd wins...don't get me wrong...but Manny is really the only challenge that is out there for Floyd. Robert Guerrero has no chance and neither does Andre Berto. A rematch with Cotto gives us more of the same. Canelo is mildly interesting but I see that fight going the same way as the Cotto one. The only other fighter I really want to see Floyd in with is Broner.


But like I said, I truly feel that Floyd is worried that Manny would beat him. We will see over the next 18 months. I have seen enough from Manny to believe that he truly wants the fight. What more would Mayweather fans want? He has said he would give him a larger share of the money. He has said he would agree to ALL the tests. He went on national TV and essentially called Floyd out. Floyd remained quiet.


I am not a Manny fan. I am not a Mayweather fan. I am a guy that wanted Mayweather to fight Manny early so I could bet HEAVILY on Mayweather. I was planning on betting (and then winning) $5k on Mayweather and then letting that $5k pay for my trip to vegas/ticket for the fight. That was back when Pac was an absurd favorite. Since then I have been convinced that Mayweather is the one that stands in the way of the fight being made, NOT Manny.
Simple question...of all the fighters you named that hurt/stunned Mayweather, what were the outcome of their fights against him? Enough said, case closed. The end.
aTYpicalTYrant
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 31 2012, 09:26 AM) *
I am not a Manny fan. I am not a Mayweather fan. I am a guy that wanted Mayweather to fight Manny early so I could bet HEAVILY on Mayweather. I was planning on betting (and then winning) $5k on Mayweather and then letting that $5k pay for my trip to vegas/ticket for the fight. That was back when Pac was an absurd favorite. Since then I have been convinced that Mayweather is the one that stands in the way of the fight being made, NOT Manny.


I was unaware that PAC was actually considered the absurd favorite by anyone other than the casual fan. I can't imagine any legitimate bookie (oxymoron) or The House (Vegas) actually touting Pac as the favorite. I'm sure the odds would have been much more in his favor when compared today. but that's about it. If you or anyone has any evidence of that please enlighten me.
checkleft
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 31 2012, 10:55 AM) *
1. I didn't mean that Judah was the same type of fighter in terms of style. By saying "poor man's Judah" I just meant that Manny and Judah both are southpaws with power and hand speed. Manny is just more dangerous, partly due to the unique way he fights. It was a poor choice of words by me, but I didn't think anyone would take those wouds so literally.


2. Manny most certainly does offer Floyd a great deal. He represents the largest payday in the history of Floyd's career. He is also the biggest legacy fight for Floyd. Instead of are getting stuck with Floyd vs who...Robert Guerrero? Really? That is what Floyd is giving his fans? Robert Guerrero? Color me unimpressed. And regardless, doesn't Robert Guerrero have a promoter? Doesn't Canelo? Come on man.

Do you not understand that pac can't offer anyone anything? He has a promoter, and that promoter dictates every term of his fights. For example if pac really can offer anyone anything how come there wasn't any testing against marquez even tho manny said he agreed to it? Because top rank (bob arum) said no.

Pac can say whatever he wants but what really happens is completely out of his control.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 31 2012, 08:59 AM) *
By the way, I still think this fight could and should happen. Manny is still the biggest money fight for Mayweather. Manny is still the biggest challenge. Beating Manny still does the most for his legcay by a wide margin. There is no question about it. I am stunned that so many poeple think there is no chance the fight comes off now.



Wow, it's kind of hard for me to believe you are a fan of Floyd's with the ridiculous rant you went on prior to your initial post about Manny being a challenge for Floyd and how you are DUPED into believing that Manny and Arum wanted the fight with Floyd when they clearly walked away from a 40 million dollar offer to fight a 4th fight with Marquez for at least 25 million less. (This is still a sport and all about Dollars and cents at the end of the day<nobody fights for free)!!

The only possible way this fight happens is due to the following scenario, Manny wins convincingly over JMM in a 5th fight or Manny wins convincingly in a rematch vs Bradley then goes on to beat JMM convincingly and he (Pacquiao) has to accept the fact that he will not get no more than a 60-40 split (something Arum will never agree to).

I despise fake Fans or those who say that they are so called "fans" of Floyd but are really masquerading the fact that they're Pac fans trying to come off unbiased (which you are clearly doing here).

Stick to what you know because your ranting and comparison of what Corley, Judah and Mosley were able to do to Floyd can easily be negated by what JMM, Singsurat, and Torrecampo were able to do to Pacquiao which was far worst; or did you being the big Floyd fan that you are really just forget about that?? (Rhetorical question)!!
Cshel86
Mayweather vs Pacquiao talk?!

BoxingFan86
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 1 2013, 07:57 PM) *
Mayweather vs Pacquiao talk?!


I know, right? ***sighs***
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