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Full Version: Chavez Jr. Might Have A New Trainer Upon Return
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Gambit808
Rumor has it Roach may be losing yet another fighter in Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. after a bad 2012 that seen all of his top fighters take L's on their record. It's being said that either Nacho Beristain or Robert Garcia are in the top running to replace Roach. If Rumor holds true, I think it be a good Match for either trainer to take over. I'd leen more toward seeing Nacho Train him because I feel it being a no nonsense better mesh between Legendary Trainer teaching Son Of A Legend on the come up.

Your Thoughts.
Franchize
He will transition seemlessly with Garcia but he would learn the most from Beristain. Lets face it. Beristain is an all time great. Garcias fighter are just punching bags with tons of heart.
Gambit808
QUOTE (Franchize @ Dec 24 2012, 10:30 AM) *
He will transition seemlessly with Garcia but he would learn the most from Beristain. Lets face it. Beristain is an all time great. Garcias fighter are just punching bags with tons of heart.

I agree.

Nacho can tweek his mechanics better in terms of boxing, we all know Julio has a heart. Not to late for him to pick up some things at this point in his career.
checkleft
Tho I think roach is overrated i don't think the trainer was the problem in this tandem. Nacho probably wouldn't have the patience at this age with julio. Garcia might, he already deals rios shit so I'm guessing he would be the better fit for him style wise too.
flazi
yeah freddie was not the problem in that relationship. he gave good advice in the corner. the problem was and always will be Julio. he needs to respect the sport and grow up.
mgrover
doubt it'd make a difference, the kid tested positive for weed, he obviously wasn't taking it seriously.
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 24 2012, 03:27 PM) *
doubt it'd make a difference, the kid tested positive for weed, he obviously wasn't taking it seriously.

C'mon MG...aint nothin' wrong with the good ol' herbs! cool.gif

Anyhow, I think Nacho would help him a bit more than Garcia. Garcia's fighters were pretty much established before they got to him, I think Mikey has been with him pretty much from jump.

I just see Nacho helping Julio let his hands go (effectively) against faster fighters. With all this in mind, I hope Julio's eye injury wasn't too serious. Injuries like that, take years off of your career.

daprofessor
QUOTE (flazi @ Dec 24 2012, 03:01 PM) *
yeah freddie was not the problem in that relationship. he gave good advice in the corner. the problem was and always will be Julio. he needs to respect the sport and grow up.


this. totally agree.

Cshel86
...but c'mon now...Freddie Roach is the best trainer in the world, and the best in all boxing history. Give the guy a break. Sheesh...
wolterb
i have a hunch chavez jr will largely fight the same regardless of trainers. imo he wins fights on the scale ...his chin and name are other big advantages that explain his career trajectory and record (and probably attitude, assuming the reports and tv shows are true).

in the scenario that i was wrong and that chavez jr became receptive to new and (ideally) helpful advice, I do think he'd be able to extend his career and remain a challenging opponent for most in the middleweight division. he eats so many punches though i really wonder how long he'll box for.

but it'd be very difficult for chavez jr to campaign anywhere higher where his weight advantage disappears. that is a situation where a trainer would be necessary but even then who knows?
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 24 2012, 09:44 PM) *
...but c'mon now...Freddie Roach is the best trainer in the world, and the best in all boxing history. Give the guy a break. Sheesh...


freddie was actually improving chavez. the problem was chavez had some success and bounced. there's waaaay too many chiefs in his camp. waaay too many yes men too. the combination of freddie and ariza was working. he should have stuck with it.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 25 2012, 12:37 AM) *
freddie was actually improving chavez. the problem was chavez had some success and bounced. there's waaaay too many chiefs in his camp. waaay too many yes men too. the combination of freddie and ariza was working. he should have stuck with it.

Lol, I was being sarcastic about Roach being the best in the world. cool.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 25 2012, 12:42 AM) *
Lol, I was being sarcastic about Roach being the best in the world. cool.gif



i got that. laugh.gif
mgrover
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 25 2012, 01:52 AM) *
C'mon MG...aint nothin' wrong with the good ol' herbs! cool.gif

Anyhow, I think Nacho would help him a bit more than Garcia. Garcia's fighters were pretty much established before they got to him, I think Mikey has been with him pretty much from jump.

I just see Nacho helping Julio let his hands go (effectively) against faster fighters. With all this in mind, I hope Julio's eye injury wasn't too serious. Injuries like that, take years off of your career.


I wanted Martinez to blind that piece of shit, but I think that more hate towards Arum and the bullshit he's been playing with Chavez. I'll probably feel the same when Canelo fights and somebody destroys him.
wolterb
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 25 2012, 07:59 AM) *
I wanted Martinez to blind that piece of shit, but I think that more hate towards Arum and the bullshit he's been playing with Chavez. I'll probably feel the same when Canelo fights and somebody destroys him.


i doubt you'll ever see canelo take the beatings chavez has already taken. there r some parallels between them but its pretty obvious canelo does not rely wholly on size advantage as chavez does.

in other words, if canelo was to get whooped, at least it would be someone within range of his actual weight. fuckin Zbik marked chavez jr up, they looked like they were 3 divisions apart!
wolterb
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 25 2012, 12:37 AM) *
freddie was actually improving chavez. the problem was chavez had some success and bounced. there's waaaay too many chiefs in his camp. waaay too many yes men too. the combination of freddie and ariza was working. he should have stuck with it.


What improvements did you see, just curious? I think had Chavez jr been receptive to roach he would have improved but as I said before, it never appeared to me that chavez jr won fights using skills or strategy.

It always seems to me that chavez jr attempts to execute a game plan initially, fails and then turns into the greenhorn that looks like they just watched Julio Cesar Chavez's highlights. the only reason he can get away with fighting like that is because of the weight game. Chavez jr isn't gonna listen to anyone when he knows his opponents weight is substantially less than his...its a different ball game like that. Ariza is more important than any trainer with that strategy imo
mgrover
QUOTE (wolterb @ Dec 25 2012, 01:45 PM) *
i doubt you'll ever see canelo take the beatings chavez has already taken. there r some parallels between them but its pretty obvious canelo does not rely wholly on size advantage as chavez does.

in other words, if canelo was to get whooped, at least it would be someone within range of his actual weight. fuckin Zbik marked chavez jr up, they looked like they were 3 divisions apart!


I know tbh but still am hopeful haha
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 25 2012, 07:59 AM) *
I wanted Martinez to blind that piece of shit, but I think that more hate towards Arum and the bullshit he's been playing with Chavez. I'll probably feel the same when Canelo fights and somebody destroys him.

I actually started liking Julio during/after the Andy Lee fight...before that, couldn't STAND him. More than likely, it was for the same sentiments...his promoter and team.
daprofessor
QUOTE (wolterb @ Dec 25 2012, 10:14 AM) *
What improvements did you see, just curious? I think had Chavez jr been receptive to roach he would have improved but as I said before, it never appeared to me that chavez jr won fights using skills or strategy.

It always seems to me that chavez jr attempts to execute a game plan initially, fails and then turns into the greenhorn that looks like they just watched Julio Cesar Chavez's highlights. the only reason he can get away with fighting like that is because of the weight game. Chavez jr isn't gonna listen to anyone when he knows his opponents weight is substantially less than his...its a different ball game like that. Ariza is more important than any trainer with that strategy imo



the manfredo fight illustrated their work together best. he was jabbing and using foot and head movement. his defense had improved and was showing in that fight. he threw all of that out the window for the fight against lee and martinez. he wasn't going to outbox either of them...but some of those elements would have helped him in both fights. ariza definitely took his conditioning to the next level and he seemed much stronger and his endurance was much better under him. i believe the footwork drills were helping him tremendously.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 26 2012, 05:28 PM) *
the manfredo fight illustrated their work together best. he was jabbing and using foot and head movement. his defense had improved and was showing in that fight. he threw all of that out the window for the fight against lee and martinez. he wasn't going to outbox either of them...but some of those elements would have helped him in both fights. ariza definitely took his conditioning to the next level and he seemed much stronger and his endurance was much better under him. i believe the footwork drills were helping him tremendously.

I agree! One of his best performances (skill wise) was the Manfredo fight. Though I didnt like Manfredo's lack of confidence during his pre-fight interview, he did give it his best when the was on.

Julio totally pissed it all away in the Rubio fight (due to that DUI and almost not making weight). As for the Lee fight, he looked a bit more ripped, but still has trouble making weight. He didn't care to really box either, but maybe its because he knew that he could hammer Lee whenever he wanted to.

I like what Ariza was doing with him (as far as training, not PED allegations), but it doesn't mean much if his legs were shot to shit because of dehydration.
wolterb
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 25 2012, 10:51 AM) *
I know tbh but still am hopeful haha


lol fair enough!
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