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Dolimite
Broner on a Mayweather undercard, the question is, who would he fight in such a quick turn over? I say the winner of Garcia and Judah or maybe Broner and Maidana, better yet why not Broner and Gamboa, make it happen. Just think of it, the whole 50 cent thing with Floyd as a background story and the fact Gamboa and Mayweather were actually cool and Adrien stepping in as Floyd's next protege. It has a million story lines. At the weigh ins Ray J and 50 can get in a scuffle. 1.5 million buys instantly.

The interesting thing about the youtube video of May and Broner was Adrian was actually quiet. As Floyd was giving backhand compliments Broner sat there as if he was a seven year old kid on Santa's lap. The funny part of that entire video: Floyd saying he doesn't do bands he does straps. Of course at the end of the video the hanger ons had to get their shout outs. Broner maybe apart of the money team sooner rather than later. May 4th just got even more interesting.
daprofessor
i may be alone on this one...but i don't think boxing needs all that wwf stuff. no need for story lines. no need for fluff. leave that to wwe/ufc. all i need is good fights. i'd love to see broner/gamboa...but i think at this point gamboa gets eaten up. he didn't look so good in his last outing and needs to knock a little more rust off before getting in the ring with a guy like broner. he still may be too small for broner. keep ray j out the ring unless he's singing the anthem. same with 50.
wolterb
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 27 2012, 08:13 PM) *
i may be alone on this one...but i don't think boxing needs all that wwf stuff. no need for story lines. no need for fluff. leave that to wwe/ufc. all i need is good fights. i'd love to see broner/gamboa...but i think at this point gamboa gets eaten up. he didn't look so good in his last outing and needs to knock a little more rust off before getting in the ring with a guy like broner. he still may be too small for broner. keep ray j out the ring unless he's singing the anthem. same with 50.


agreed on all points.....to me, gamboa looks to have speed and not too much else to write home about.

and idk bout everyone else but 50 Cents' entrance into the ring during the pacquiao marquez undercard made me fucking cringe FOR him. his incredible self esteem both baffles and impresses me lol
BigFightFan
Another failed relationship in the making, the whole thing seemed forced and awkward. All that aside it will be a huge plus for Mayweather promotions if they could sign Bronner.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 28 2012, 01:13 AM) *
i may be alone on this one...but i don't think boxing needs all that wwf stuff. no need for story lines. no need for fluff. leave that to wwe/ufc. all i need is good fights. i'd love to see broner/gamboa...but i think at this point gamboa gets eaten up. he didn't look so good in his last outing and needs to knock a little more rust off before getting in the ring with a guy like broner. he still may be too small for broner. keep ray j out the ring unless he's singing the anthem. same with 50.


more or less says it all. boxing is the real deal, and real animosity and rivalry is the best. Stuff like Hopkins and Roy Jones Jr.
Gambit808
To have Mayweather, Canelo & Broner all on the same PPV card for May 4th I'd say would do record numbers depending on the opponents.

My guess being (realistically) Mayweather-Guerrero, Alverez-Trout, Broner-Burns ehhh would do about 1.5 - 1.6 mill

I'm holding GBP to their word of having a record breaking 2013 :/ so let's wait and see how this plays out.
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 27 2012, 05:13 PM) *
i may be alone on this one...but i don't think boxing needs all that wwf stuff. no need for story lines. no need for fluff. leave that to wwe/ufc. all i need is good fights. i'd love to see broner/gamboa...but i think at this point gamboa gets eaten up. he didn't look so good in his last outing and needs to knock a little more rust off before getting in the ring with a guy like broner. he still may be too small for broner. keep ray j out the ring unless he's singing the anthem. same with 50.


Professor unfortunately we live in a time of soundbites and controversy. It is not enough that two boxers do not like each other. Look at what happen with Oscar and Mayweather, it was hype and all the bells and whistles that go with it. The hard core boxing fans do not push the sport, its the populous that do. If Golden Boy and TMT can push a fight with all the hype that a reality show can bring or wwe then that is a plus for boxing. New fans will be engulfed in the sport. It is like the state of ballet (forgive cousins for this statement) the New York Ballet Company had to take classical ballets and give them a new edge and style to bring new members into the theaters, the same goes with boxing, we need new fans. If having certain marketing schemes and techniques to bring in new fans than I am all for it. I am not a fan of 50 he makes me cringe anyway but I will say this he has created a buzz. Look at what reality shows have done for certain people, they had such a big personality and ego that people are attracted to the BS. I do not even know anything about the Braxtons but I do know everyone talks about Tamara and because of her personality she has a hit song, I will not even talk about the other cats who have made it big off reality shows. Hype sells. A sport that does very very well at selling hype is the NFL. Every little thing is a story line, just look at last year what they did with Tebow. People tuned in to watch a 3rd tier quarterback because of all the hype that surrounded him. Boxing needs new viewers, you and I of course will buy a PPV and watch boxing because we enjoy the sport even love the sport but people who can really push the sport are the fans that need the extra toppings. Its like going to In N Out why get the regular burger when you can get it animal style? Same with boxing.

Broner and Gamboa is interesting, the fight may surprise us. With Broner personality and Floyd being Floyd May 4th is already creating buzz. I would love the undercard to be just as good if not better than the main event.
leonthegee
No way Floyd, Canelo, and Broner end up on the same card. Those other guys make too much money and I dont Floyd leaving all that scratch on the table. Especially when you can pay someone like JLeon Love a hundred grand and his opponent 25 grrrr. Broners already at the mil mark plus Canelo got 2 mil+ for the Lopez fight. Plus you have their opponents that will be either champions or top contenders. I dont see it happening.
Franchize
I wish they could get a card with Broner, Mayweather and Ward on it. I think it would be great for Ward, who seems to struggle to get notoriety despite being a top P4P fighter. Just goes to show, while you may not like the flashy persona of a Mayweather or Broner, they may be telling the hard core fans "We need this to make the big bucks in this sport."
BrutUalBK
Honestly I'm glad that Broner is on the undercard with Floyd and as stated this will help to place the public's perception that once Floyd is gone that we will still get to relish some of what he left behind in his protege'.

I'd love to see Broner vs Gamboa but I think Adrien is too good for Gamboa at this point plus he has that slick SP style that'll even things up to boot but I'd prefer to see Broner vs Maidana.

Marcos has been working on adding boxing to his previous go straight-forward/one dimensional knock 'em out brawling style of the past, still I think he lacks the speed to stay with Broner and he'd be facing a SP at that.

What I'd really love to see at this point is Floyd return to WW and face Lucas Matthysse, that would make for an intersting styles match up; the consummate Brawler vs the consummate Boxer.

But it seems everybody is ducking Lucas and nobody is calling him out, what's up with that??
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 27 2012, 07:29 PM) *
Broner on a Mayweather undercard, the question is, who would he fight in such a quick turn over? I say the winner of Garcia and Judah or maybe Broner and Maidana, better yet why not Broner and Gamboa, make it happen. Just think of it, the whole 50 cent thing with Floyd as a background story and the fact Gamboa and Mayweather were actually cool and Adrien stepping in as Floyd's next protege. It has a million story lines. At the weigh ins Ray J and 50 can get in a scuffle. 1.5 million buys instantly.

The interesting thing about the youtube video of May and Broner was Adrian was actually quiet. As Floyd was giving backhand compliments Broner sat there as if he was a seven year old kid on Santa's lap. The funny part of that entire video: Floyd saying he doesn't do bands he does straps. Of course at the end of the video the hanger ons had to get their shout outs. Broner maybe apart of the money team sooner rather than later. May 4th just got even more interesting.

I dont think that Broner being on the card, will actually promote extra buys this soon. Hell, not many people were on the fence earlier this year for Canelo/Mosley. No doubt, it helped sell, but the main event is what got the most attention, as it should.

Broner may have had a high viewing record for the Escebedo and DeMarco fight, but as we all know, viewers and buyers are two completely different things. Canelo and Chavez are known for having millions of Mexican viewers when they fight on HBO, but again, that doesn't equate to the same amount of viewers.

As for Broner's opponents...dont get too excited. You have to look at the possible budget for the card, while keeping in mind that Floyd is going to get the lion's share of the money and his opponent will get a certain amount (Guerrero possibly gets about $2M or JMM could get between $6-$8M). What does that leave Broner with?

This should be another showcase bout for Broner, so he'll more than likely be in there with somebody that he can beat. It's said that Broner is supposed to fight on Feb. 16, so that isn't such a quick turnover depending on his opponent. It will give him at least 8 weeks to train. I wouldn't look forward to him fighting the winner of Judah/Garcia, Gamboa, or Maidana. Look for a Ricky burns fight, at the most...depending on who else shines from this point on. Maybe a Hank Lundy fight will materialize.

Depending on Floyd's opponent, let's hold off on that 1.5M buys. If it's Marquez, then that's possible...due to the upset victory earlier this month. Shit like that sales, and that's a good chance for Floyd to strike while the iron's hot. Canelo will of course be on the card, and I believe they'll either throw him in there with K-9 (if he beats Smith), or somebody else who "appears" to have a puncher's chance.

What's up with the 50 Cent and Ray J getting into a scuffle idea??? nea.gif

Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 28 2012, 09:39 AM) *
I dont think that Broner being on the card, will actually promote extra buys this soon. Hell, not many people were on the fence earlier this year for Canelo/Mosley. No doubt, it helped sell, but the main event is what got the most attention, as it should.

Broner may have had a high viewing record for the Escebedo and DeMarco fight, but as we all know, viewers and buyers are two completely different things. Canelo and Chavez are known for having millions of Mexican viewers when they fight on HBO, but again, that doesn't equate to the same amount of viewers.

As for Broner's opponents...dont get too excited. You have to look at the possible budget for the card, while keeping in mind that Floyd is going to get the lion's share of the money and his opponent will get a certain amount (Guerrero possibly gets about $2M or JMM could get between $6-$8M). What does that leave Broner with?

This should be another showcase bout for Broner, so he'll more than likely be in there with somebody that he can beat. It's said that Broner is supposed to fight on Feb. 16, so that isn't such a quick turnover depending on his opponent. It will give him at least 8 weeks to train. I wouldn't look forward to him fighting the winner of Judah/Garcia, Gamboa, or Maidana. Look for a Ricky burns fight, at the most...depending on who else shines from this point on. Maybe a Hank Lundy fight will materialize.

Depending on Floyd's opponent, let's hold off on that 1.5M buys. If it's Marquez, then that's possible...due to the upset victory earlier this month. Shit like that sales, and that's a good chance for Floyd to strike while the iron's hot. Canelo will of course be on the card, and I believe they'll either throw him in there with K-9 (if he beats Smith), or somebody else who "appears" to have a puncher's chance.

What's up with the 50 Cent and Ray J getting into a scuffle idea??? nea.gif



Hank Lundy and Broner? Not that interested but it could have some fireworks. If Broner wants to be the man at whatever weight class he chooses to fight in I think he should take one someone with a name. If Canelo fights a 154 fighter than I would be shocked, especially someone who might show kinks in his armor, plus if Canelo looks sub par against K-9 or Trout then the super fight with Mayweather is all but over, he needs to continue to look impressive. Broner will sell some extra PPV, his antics outside the ring brings in the casual viewer. Plus if he is featured on 24/7 then that can only help.

50 and Ray J fighting it was a joke, Ray J has been seen around Vegas with Floyd more often since May's and 50's breakup. Plus I doubt people even know who Ray J is, lol, Brandy's little brother.
daprofessor
QUOTE (wolterb @ Dec 27 2012, 09:38 PM) *
agreed on all points.....to me, gamboa looks to have speed and not too much else to write home about.

and idk bout everyone else but 50 Cents' entrance into the ring during the pacquiao marquez undercard made me fucking cringe FOR him. his incredible self esteem both baffles and impresses me lol


laugh.gif seriously.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 27 2012, 11:14 PM) *
Professor unfortunately we live in a time of soundbites and controversy. It is not enough that two boxers do not like each other. Look at what happen with Oscar and Mayweather, it was hype and all the bells and whistles that go with it. The hard core boxing fans do not push the sport, its the populous that do. If Golden Boy and TMT can push a fight with all the hype that a reality show can bring or wwe then that is a plus for boxing. New fans will be engulfed in the sport. It is like the state of ballet (forgive cousins for this statement) the New York Ballet Company had to take classical ballets and give them a new edge and style to bring new members into the theaters, the same goes with boxing, we need new fans. If having certain marketing schemes and techniques to bring in new fans than I am all for it. I am not a fan of 50 he makes me cringe anyway but I will say this he has created a buzz. Look at what reality shows have done for certain people, they had such a big personality and ego that people are attracted to the BS. I do not even know anything about the Braxtons but I do know everyone talks about Tamara and because of her personality she has a hit song, I will not even talk about the other cats who have made it big off reality shows. Hype sells. A sport that does very very well at selling hype is the NFL. Every little thing is a story line, just look at last year what they did with Tebow. People tuned in to watch a 3rd tier quarterback because of all the hype that surrounded him. Boxing needs new viewers, you and I of course will buy a PPV and watch boxing because we enjoy the sport even love the sport but people who can really push the sport are the fans that need the extra toppings. Its like going to In N Out why get the regular burger when you can get it animal style? Same with boxing.

Broner and Gamboa is interesting, the fight may surprise us. With Broner personality and Floyd being Floyd May 4th is already creating buzz. I would love the undercard to be just as good if not better than the main event.


i'm going to have to agree to disagree...

for one...dlh/floyd was oversold and even though they made a killing on that one fight...they turned several fans off to the sport. not since dlh/trinidad have i heard ppl say "i will never order another ppv again!!!" that illustrates what 'hype' does for the sport. so many ppl bought into the hype and i did my best to explain to ppl there would be no knockout and they should not expect the fireworks that were promised by floyd and oscar. i knew that fight was going to be a chess match and everyone expected blood and guts.

i do NOT purchase ppv cards. the last ppv card i purchased was cotto/malignaggi. the one before that was bhop/joppy. ppv boxing is killing the sport.

i can't speak on ballet, tamara, the braxtons, tebow or the nfl. i don't watch any of them. i'd love to see boxing back in the mainstream media...but if it doesn't find it's way there with all the bullshit that's on television these days, i wouldn't be upset about it. i think it sucks that ppl think it's normal to have to get cable tv to watch boxing. i'll be happy when top notch boxing is back on network tv where it belongs. hype won't get it there....quality/exciting match ups will.

for the record....floyds antics have turned me off more than anything. it's his skill that i tune in to see. same with broner.
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 28 2012, 10:38 AM) *
i'm going to have to agree to disagree...

for one...dlh/floyd was oversold and even though they made a killing on that one fight...they turned several fans off to the sport. not since dlh/trinidad have i heard ppl say "i will never order another ppv again!!!" that illustrates what 'hype' does for the sport. so many ppl bought into the hype and i did my best to explain to ppl there would be no knockout and they should not expect the fireworks that were promised by floyd and oscar. i knew that fight was going to be a chess match and everyone expected blood and guts.

i do NOT purchase ppv cards. the last ppv card i purchased was cotto/malignaggi. the one before that was bhop/joppy. ppv boxing is killing the sport.

i can't speak on ballet, tamara, the braxtons, tebow or the nfl. i don't watch any of them. i'd love to see boxing back in the mainstream media...but if it doesn't find it's way there with all the bullshit that's on television these days, i wouldn't be upset about it. i think it sucks that ppl think it's normal to have to get cable tv to watch boxing. i'll be happy when top notch boxing is back on network tv where it belongs. hype won't get it there....quality/exciting match ups will.

for the record....floyds antics have turned me off more than anything. it's his skill that i tune in to see. same with broner.


I don't watch reality shows but people talk about them constantly. I been going to ballets since birth (my grandmother and mother use to be professional/classical dancers and they figured I could learn something). I think antics are apart of sports. The reason why people tune into UFC is because they make it fun and accessible boxing hasn't tried new tactics. But I do see your point in keeping the sport pure. The average viewer tunes in for Mayweather's stupidity. I like him as a boxer and he is actually a very cool guy when the spotlight isn't on him. And what do casual boxing fans really know about the sport. They look for big hits and knockouts. I do think boxing should return to regular television but unfortunately boxing has not proved to be a big ratings for regular networks to carry, I believe one day it will be.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 28 2012, 05:45 PM) *
I don't watch reality shows but people talk about them constantly. I been going to ballets since birth (my grandmother and mother use to be professional/classical dancers and they figured I could learn something). I think antics are apart of sports. The reason why people tune into UFC is because they make it fun and accessible boxing hasn't tried new tactics. But I do see your point in keeping the sport pure. The average viewer tunes in for Mayweather's stupidity. I like him as a boxer and he is actually a very cool guy when the spotlight isn't on him. And what do casual boxing fans really know about the sport. They look for big hits and knockouts. I do think boxing should return to regular television but unfortunately boxing has not proved to be a big ratings for regular networks to carry, I believe one day it will be.


really? that's cool.

i think ppl tune into the ufc because their lack of defensive skill produces some great ko's and ppl love to see a train wreck. it's a little more accessible...but why is that? sponsors are more likely to give up the big money to the sport because of its participants.

i think ppl who tune in to see floyd fight fall into two categories....they either love to see him box....or they want to see him lose. and like someone in his entourage once told me..."either way...they gotta pay."

as for boxing not proving to be big ratings for regular networks to carry...i don't buy that. with all the shit that is on television these days....there is definitely a place for boxing. the problem goes back to what i was saying about sponsorship and the athletes that participate in the sport. it's in the way that they are packaging the sport...and the way the ppl involved are choosing to sell it. unfortunately, not every fighter has a feel good story....and the good guy doesn't always win. when the ppl that run boxing right now figure that out and choose a different angle to sell the sport from...then it'll get back to network television. then it'll be mainstream again. until then...no matter where it is...i'll be there watching.
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 28 2012, 05:35 PM) *
really? that's cool.

i think ppl tune into the ufc because their lack of defensive skill produces some great ko's and ppl love to see a train wreck. it's a little more accessible...but why is that? sponsors are more likely to give up the big money to the sport because of its participants.

i think ppl who tune in to see floyd fight fall into two categories....they either love to see him box....or they want to see him lose. and like someone in his entourage once told me..."either way...they gotta pay."

as for boxing not proving to be big ratings for regular networks to carry...i don't buy that. with all the shit that is on television these days....there is definitely a place for boxing. the problem goes back to what i was saying about sponsorship and the athletes that participate in the sport. it's in the way that they are packaging the sport...and the way the ppl involved are choosing to sell it. unfortunately, not every fighter has a feel good story....and the good guy doesn't always win. when the ppl that run boxing right now figure that out and choose a different angle to sell the sport from...then it'll get back to network television. then it'll be mainstream again. until then...no matter where it is...i'll be there watching.


When my boys found out that I was into ballet my shit got questioned real fast! The ladies loved it but the guys didn't understand, anything different people don't understand they automatically assume that you are either are gay or not hard. I guess when you are a person of color you are suppose to only be into certain things.

Professor how would you market boxing to the masses? I would put on venues on Tuesdays and Wednesdays nights. Have up and comers, maybe celebrity commentary from the bigger stars of the sport. I would feature cats like Deontay Wilder, people who really need to get their name up. I would expose the bad and the good of boxing. The bs that is on TV is crap! Anytime reality shows are taking over TV I think that says a lot about our society. I think if a network really educates the viewer about how judges score fights, the history of the sport and highlight up and comers as well as the big names. The thing with UFC they really let the viewer inside of the sport. It would help if ESPN, CBS sports would have a dhow dedicated to boxing. There so many things that could happen.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 02:29 AM) *
When my boys found out that I was into ballet my shit got questioned real fast! The ladies loved it but the guys didn't understand, anything different people don't understand they automatically assume that you are either are gay or not hard. I guess when you are a person of color you are suppose to only be into certain things.

Professor how would you market boxing to the masses? I would put on venues on Tuesdays and Wednesdays nights. Have up and comers, maybe celebrity commentary from the bigger stars of the sport. I would feature cats like Deontay Wilder, people who really need to get their name up. I would expose the bad and the good of boxing. The bs that is on TV is crap! Anytime reality shows are taking over TV I think that says a lot about our society. I think if a network really educates the viewer about how judges score fights, the history of the sport and highlight up and comers as well as the big names. The thing with UFC they really let the viewer inside of the sport. It would help if ESPN, CBS sports would have a dhow dedicated to boxing. There so many things that could happen.



two of my favorite wide receivers were students of ballet...lynn swan and willie gault. i get it. one of my ex's was a dancer and i used to pick her up from her practices and let me say, the women in them practices had some amazing bodies....jacked up feet...but beautiful bodies. laugh.gif

as far as marketing boxing to the masses...education is key. the current crop of commentators...especially on hbo, suck ass in a major way. while there is a lot of good that teddy atlas does with his commentating...he can also be very negative. there is a lot of good to focus on in boxing and these guys should stop with their trying to find the "breaking story" which usually is some fucked up shit. my show would focus on the positive....focus on educating the viewers...understanding the sport...strategies, techniques, scoring..etc..etc..and the up-and-coming fighters would definitely be at the center of all of that.

the thing about it...the ufc is not doing anything new. they're doing a lot of what boxing use to do. anyone who grew up in the '70's and '80's and had the privilege of seeing boxing on network tv will tell u it was done right. we really don't need to reinvent the wheel...we need to go back to what we used to do.
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Dec 29 2012, 03:28 AM) *
two of my favorite wide receivers were students of ballet...lynn swan and willie gault. i get it. one of my ex's was a dancer and i used to pick her up from her practices and let me say, the women in them practices had some amazing bodies....jacked up feet...but beautiful bodies. laugh.gif

as far as marketing boxing to the masses...education is key. the current crop of commentators...especially on hbo, suck ass in a major way. while there is a lot of good that teddy atlas does with his commentating...he can also be very negative. there is a lot of good to focus on in boxing and these guys should stop with their trying to find the "breaking story" which usually is some fucked up shit. my show would focus on the positive....focus on educating the viewers...understanding the sport...strategies, techniques, scoring..etc..etc..and the up-and-coming fighters would definitely be at the center of all of that.

the thing about it...the ufc is not doing anything new. they're doing a lot of what boxing use to do. anyone who grew up in the '70's and '80's and had the privilege of seeing boxing on network tv will tell u it was done right. we really don't need to reinvent the wheel...we need to go back to what we used to do.


Bad feet? LOL as Martin said on Boomerang, "you don't f*ck her feet." I hear you. Terrell Owens did ballet and Sergio Martinez dances, I am not sure if he does ballet, I wouldn't be the least surprised if he did. I think he is into ballroom dancing which is hard to do.

As you said boxing can go back to its glory days but you have to have people who are willing to have vision and not take the easy way out. Not every boxer has a feel good story, some boxers are jerks others are very nice guys. I would even feature female boxers and kids that are boxing. The dedication of these kids to the sport at a very early age. I would really focus on how boxing is scored and judged. I think people do not know what they are looking at when they are watching boxing. You mentioned how you told people that there would be no knock out in the ODH and FLoyd fight, oddly enough I told someone that Oscar would gas himself out and not have an answer for Floyd. I even said the Freddie Roach was the wrong trainer for Oscar against Floyd. He needed a more tactical trainer than Freddie, Freddie does not give his fighters a plan B. Nacho Berstein would had been perfect for Oscar. Just look at all of Freddie's fighters, once Plan A is out the door then so goes the fight..
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 28 2012, 12:24 PM) *
Hank Lundy and Broner? Not that interested but it could have some fireworks. If Broner wants to be the man at whatever weight class he chooses to fight in I think he should take one someone with a name. If Canelo fights a 154 fighter than I would be shocked, especially someone who might show kinks in his armor, plus if Canelo looks sub par against K-9 or Trout then the super fight with Mayweather is all but over, he needs to continue to look impressive. Broner will sell some extra PPV, his antics outside the ring brings in the casual viewer. Plus if he is featured on 24/7 then that can only help.

50 and Ray J fighting it was a joke, Ray J has been seen around Vegas with Floyd more often since May's and 50's breakup. Plus I doubt people even know who Ray J is, lol, Brandy's little brother.

Sorry, but most of the undercards on PPV lack some type of interest...unless you're a harcore fan (like I am) and find the silver lining in the matchups. As it's been mentioned in this thread, all of those "fantasy" fights that guys ask for on PPV cards, will hardly ever happen.

For starters, those type of fights (Canelo/Trout, Gamboa/Broner, Broner/vs the winner of Judah/Garcia) can all make promoters a decent amount of money on a B.A.D. card or a Showtime card. As for PPV, there wouldn't be enough money to shell out to all of those fighters, especially if they're used to making a certain amount.

Look at the Mayweather/Cotto card...Floyd made a whopping $32, Cotto made $8M, Canelo got about $1.2M, Shane got around $600k, and all of the other fighters got about $200k and under. Hell, Quitana and Lattimore got under $100k. See what I mean? PPV gets 50% off the top, promoters get theres, and then the fighters (the last are interchangeable I believe).

Look at the Maidana/Morales PPV card. If Maidana got about $250k and Maidana got about $500k...and that was the main event, so imagine what the undercard fighters got. Even if the budget it big for a Mayweather card, most likely, Floyd's gonna get the lion's share, and everyone else gets what's left.

All of these guys that you say Broner needs to fight (with a name), aren't even big names outside of the boxing community. Hell, Broner isn't a big name outside of the boxing community. He's a big name to us, but not to the public. So a Lundy fight for Broner, would be good for the card. Broner will more than likely take some type of pay cut if Canelo is on the card is well...since Canelo is probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest name on the card (depending on who Floyd's opponent is).

If Canelo looks bad against (but still wins) against a Trout or K-9, then that wouldn't kill a Mayweather fight for him...we know how the sport goes. If you look too good, then you wont get big fights...if you look average or exposed, then the fight is in your hands. You made a point about Canelo needing to look impressive (in order to fight Floyd)...hence the reason he will be fighting somebody who "appears" to be a threat to the public, but not a threat to someone who knows the sport.

Broner will fall in line, if he's on this PPV card. The only promotion that he'll get, is the promotion that Mayweather allows him to have under HIS spotlight, and of course at the weigh-in. We didn't see 24/7 pumping up Canelo/Mosley, while they were pumping up Floyd/Cotto. Again, Broner will have to fall in line here. If anything, Canelo should be more of a help with the numbers this time around, because he fought a NAME (Mosley) on the last Mayweather card months ago, and he will have more promotion in Mexico while the fight is building.

As Professor mentioned about boxing being on network television, MMA is taking the lead now because people want to see blood, guts, no defense, and knockouts. Boxing is waaaay more crafty and tactical, so chances are, you wont see a knockout in every fight. DLH/Mayweather didn't deliver as it was built to, and I remember those promos being all over network tv.

If boxing is gong to be on network television again, fighters with the gift of gab need to be pushed harder. If all of this gutterbutt trash makes the airwaves (because of drama), then surely boxing can have more air time. That makes me question why fighters aren't being promoted more, like on commercials (like subway, Axe, and all of that other mess). Hell, dress a fighter up good, and have him co-host a show of some sort. People need to get used to faces, before they but into it wholeheartedly.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 29 2012, 12:42 PM) *
Sorry, but most of the undercards on PPV lack some type of interest...unless you're a harcore fan (like I am) and find the silver lining in the matchups. As it's been mentioned in this thread, all of those "fantasy" fights that guys ask for on PPV cards, will hardly ever happen.

For starters, those type of fights (Canelo/Trout, Gamboa/Broner, Broner/vs the winner of Judah/Garcia) can all make promoters a decent amount of money on a B.A.D. card or a Showtime card. As for PPV, there wouldn't be enough money to shell out to all of those fighters, especially if they're used to making a certain amount.

Look at the Mayweather/Cotto card...Floyd made a whopping $32, Cotto made $8M, Canelo got about $1.2M, Shane got around $600k, and all of the other fighters got about $200k and under. Hell, Quitana and Lattimore got under $100k. See what I mean? PPV gets 50% off the top, promoters get theres, and then the fighters (the last are interchangeable I believe).

Look at the Maidana/Morales PPV card. If Maidana got about $250k and Maidana got about $500k...and that was the main event, so imagine what the undercard fighters got. Even if the budget it big for a Mayweather card, most likely, Floyd's gonna get the lion's share, and everyone else gets what's left.

All of these guys that you say Broner needs to fight (with a name), aren't even big names outside of the boxing community. Hell, Broner isn't a big name outside of the boxing community. He's a big name to us, but not to the public. So a Lundy fight for Broner, would be good for the card. Broner will more than likely take some type of pay cut if Canelo is on the card is well...since Canelo is probably the 2nd or 3rd biggest name on the card (depending on who Floyd's opponent is).

If Canelo looks bad against (but still wins) against a Trout or K-9, then that wouldn't kill a Mayweather fight for him...we know how the sport goes. If you look too good, then you wont get big fights...if you look average or exposed, then the fight is in your hands. You made a point about Canelo needing to look impressive (in order to fight Floyd)...hence the reason he will be fighting somebody who "appears" to be a threat to the public, but not a threat to someone who knows the sport.

Broner will fall in line, if he's on this PPV card. The only promotion that he'll get, is the promotion that Mayweather allows him to have under HIS spotlight, and of course at the weigh-in. We didn't see 24/7 pumping up Canelo/Mosley, while they were pumping up Floyd/Cotto. Again, Broner will have to fall in line here. If anything, Canelo should be more of a help with the numbers this time around, because he fought a NAME (Mosley) on the last Mayweather card months ago, and he will have more promotion in Mexico while the fight is building.

As Professor mentioned about boxing being on network television, MMA is taking the lead now because people want to see blood, guts, no defense, and knockouts. Boxing is waaaay more crafty and tactical, so chances are, you wont see a knockout in every fight. DLH/Mayweather didn't deliver as it was built to, and I remember those promos being all over network tv.

If boxing is gong to be on network television again, fighters with the gift of gab need to be pushed harder. If all of this gutterbutt trash makes the airwaves (because of drama), then surely boxing can have more air time. That makes me question why fighters aren't being promoted more, like on commercials (like subway, Axe, and all of that other mess). Hell, dress a fighter up good, and have him co-host a show of some sort. People need to get used to faces, before they but into it wholeheartedly.



Cshel86 how do movies get pushed? The names in those movies. If you have a movie that can be a great movie have no stars behind them, then 9 out o 10 times that movie no matter how good will go unnoticed. But a movie can suck all the ass in the world but it will make money because if it has all the stars then people will automatically flock to it. Same with boxing the big names bring in the audience. The May 4th can be a great under card. The winner of Garcia and Judah should fight Broner. Neither Judah and Garcia can ask for more than a million let's face that. Broner can barely ask for that much. If Canelo is not on the May 4th under card than that should free up a lot of money. if May does fight Guerrero (I hope he doesn't) than Guerrero may get maybe 4 million, and that is a maybe. So there are possibilities depend on who the opponent of May will be. Now if he fights JMM then the purse will be higher, so we will see. What might can happen if the lower under cards can be featured on network television that way people can get sucked into the event and be introduced to up and coming talent.

Like Professor said, people are trying to re-event the wheel when they do not have to. The blueprint is already there, it just need to be upgraded.
daprofessor
i think the formula is simple....put on great match ups. it doesn't matter who the fighters are when u put on a great match up. in order for this to happen...u have to have a quality match maker who knows boxing. he has to know the styles and how they mesh. he has to be familiar with all the talent out there...the up-and-coming talent...regional talent...etc. there used to be some great match makers out there...now they seem to be a thing of the past. u also need to have a cast of commentators that are savvy enough not to shit on the talent and can point out the finer things happening in a bout. that doesn't mean they shouldn't point out the bullshit when they see it...it's just something as simple as believing the glass is half full instead of half empty.

the other thing they need to do is stop promoting the shit out of fights they know won't produce what the public wants. we, the fans, know when a good one is coming up. tell me how excited u were to hear that corrales/castillo was going to happen? cotto/margarito or berto/ortiz....or matthysse/soto? these are just a small sample of some of the fights that we knew would be great match ups before they even happened. i can point to a shit load of others...but my point is...those are the fights that should be pumped up by the networks because the chances of them delivering on fireworks is almost guaranteed.

when commentators are ringside and a bout comes on that isn't producing the 'fireworks' don't shit on it. take notice...maybe discuss what needs to happen for this fighter to get to the next level...or pay attention to the finer points of boxing and point them out to the viewing public that might not understand what it is they are witnessing. the truth of the matter is....a skillful boxer just doesn't happen by accident and not all guys that are defensive are scared to hit or mix it up. most guys that are taking punches and mixing it up are doing so because they haven't been taught the finer points of the sport. i cringe at the thought of how a guy like ray robinson or willie pep would be treated by network television commentators today. they, for the most part, have no clue.

do not promote train wrecks. mike tyson was an amazing figure in boxing but over time he became a caricature of himself. he was in essence...a kid with amazing talent that wasn't fully developed psychologically or character wise. but that didn't stop the networks from sticking a mic in his face and allowing journalist to ask questions that were sure to set his predictable nature off. there is a certain savvy i expect from the talking heads to steer the topic of conversation in a direction that will further the sports cause...not destroy it. overall...the ppl involved need to be a bit more responsible and mindful. this whole notion of "speaking ur mind" like the bullshit merchant does...is not good for boxing. for one, it's condescending and insulting to the fighters. plus it turns the viewers off to certain fighters because of their lack of character when the focus should be about boxing.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 05:17 PM) *
Cshel86 how do movies get pushed? The names in those movies. If you have a movie that can be a great movie have no stars behind them, then 9 out o 10 times that movie no matter how good will go unnoticed. But a movie can suck all the ass in the world but it will make money because if it has all the stars then people will automatically flock to it. Same with boxing the big names bring in the audience. The May 4th can be a great under card. The winner of Garcia and Judah should fight Broner. Neither Judah and Garcia can ask for more than a million let's face that. Broner can barely ask for that much. If Canelo is not on the May 4th under card than that should free up a lot of money. if May does fight Guerrero (I hope he doesn't) than Guerrero may get maybe 4 million, and that is a maybe. So there are possibilities depend on who the opponent of May will be. Now if he fights JMM then the purse will be higher, so we will see. What might can happen if the lower under cards can be featured on network television that way people can get sucked into the event and be introduced to up and coming talent.

Like Professor said, people are trying to re-event the wheel when they do not have to. The blueprint is already there, it just need to be upgraded.

You can have an allstar cast, and still have a bad script...it happens. What Im trying to help you understand is, this all-star cast of fighters that you're trying to throw on one card, can make more money if they fight on their card on HBO or Showtime. Besides, for what they're used to being paid, they wont except that much of a paycut, just to be on a PPV card.

This is how promoters make their money....they use their golden geese (up and coming fighters) and build them up to be their own stars. Now way we'll see Broner fight the winner of Garia/Judah...it just wont happen that way. The most we'll get is, a hyped up main event, a semi-decent co-feature, and two undercards with exceptional fighters against sub-par opposition.

The hyped up main event and semi-decent co-feature is tradition...
1. Mayweather/Ortiz and Canelo/Gomez
2.Mayweather/Cotto and Canelo/Mosley
3. Pacquiao/Marquez 4 and Gamboa/Fernaras
4. Pacquiao/Marquez 3 and Bradley/Casamayor
5. Chavez/Martinez and R. Martinez/Beltran
6. JMM/Diaz II and Guerrero/Casamayor
7. Pac/Bradley and Jones/Bailey
8. Dawson/Hopkin I and Linares/DeMarco

The list goes on. What is considered "great" fights for us, are sure to be overlooked by the casual fan. They'd be waaay over their head (with the budget) if they try to stack the card like that (Mayweather/TBA, Canelo/Trout, Broner/Gamboa, etc). The thing is, the return value on that investment, wouldn't be nearly as much as it would be, if they were to put the undercard fighters in there with somewhat "credible" opponents.

The average casual fan (who actually makes up for the bigger amount of buyers) will totally miss out on the significance behind these "fantasy" fights that guys wish to have on the cards. All they are really waiting for is the main event, so Broner/Gamboa or Broner vs the winner of Garcia/Judah would get overlooked, especially if its the 2nd fight on the card. Canelo is the bigger draw, he WILL be the cofeature bout, regardless of his opponent.

If Mayweather fights Guerrero, he just shoot him $2M or $2.5M, which would be Robert's biggest payday to date, and Floyd can keep the rest of the money. There wont be any room for money being freed up if Canelo isn't on the card, that's where Floyd will just pick up the rest. Hell, his own fighters on his last card, got paid chump change.
mgrover
realistically take mayweather out of the equation who wants a stupid amount of 30 million? and put that in a decent card with decent fighters and theres enough money to go around everyone. am not saying Mayweather doesnt deserve that much money am just saying hes the sponge.
Dolimite
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 29 2012, 05:43 PM) *
realistically take mayweather out of the equation who wants a stupid amount of 30 million? and put that in a decent card with decent fighters and theres enough money to go around everyone. am not saying Mayweather doesnt deserve that much money am just saying hes the sponge.



Oscar did the same thing, it is nothing new and stop hating. Boxing is a business you see Arum being generous with his money with his fighters?



Chels86 I understand what you are saying bro, I do, but names draw people in. I think the casual fan could be educated if network tv did a spot for each fighter on the under card, take TNT or ESPN they can have features on the fighters. I guess we will see who is on the card in the next few weeks to come then the real bitching and complaining can start.
mgrover
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 30 2012, 02:37 AM) *
Oscar did the same thing, it is nothing new and stop hating. Boxing is a business you see Arum being generous with his money with his fighters?


no shit Sherlock, I obviously thought boxing was a charity...

But people are trying to fit all these fighters and make sure they all get paid, but there's only so much money that can be generated. Who's demanding a stupid amount of money meaning that cards like that can't happen. It's not hate, its just pure logic. Since Mayweather wouldn't be on the card it probably won't generate as much money as he would need, so everyone can get a slice of the pie can they not.

Mayweather himself could probably have his own event and sell out with not so amazing undercards, am actually curious what his next PPV will sell like.

Arum it one tight motherfucker and the sooner he dies the better, but at least some of the under cards are pretty damn decent. Hell I don't even know why people complained at Pac v Marquez 4.
wolterb
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 09:37 PM) *
Oscar did the same thing, it is nothing new and stop hating. Boxing is a business you see Arum being generous with his money with his fighters?



Chels86 I understand what you are saying bro, I do, but names draw people in. I think the casual fan could be educated if network tv did a spot for each fighter on the under card, take TNT or ESPN they can have features on the fighters. I guess we will see who is on the card in the next few weeks to come then the real bitching and complaining can start.


circular reasoning is a fallacy. and the model of payment oscar, arum and floyd all have benefited from does not make it a good one (well, except for them lol).

i know what you are saying it just doesn't seem right to tear down ol' grover - his comment didn't seem like hate to me anyway
Dolimite
QUOTE (wolterb @ Dec 30 2012, 01:56 PM) *
circular reasoning is a fallacy. and the model of payment oscar, arum and floyd all have benefited from does not make it a good one (well, except for them lol).

i know what you are saying it just doesn't seem right to tear down ol' grover - his comment didn't seem like hate to me anyway


He seems to call out Mayweather's greed as a reason why we can't have a good undercard, my point was Oscar and other big name fighters have done the same thing, why single out one person? It is a business and no one is going to get punched in the face for the love of the sport at a professional level, they fight for prize money... Why does Mayweather get called greedy and self absorbed? Other boxers would love to get to his level. No one bitched when Oscar was getting 30 million dollar purses, but Mayweather demands the lion share and all of a sudden people care about fairness in the sport. Now if Canelo was asking for 30 million dollar purses and other names that have not earned the right to then yes he would have a argument, but we are talking about the top cat in boxing.

Im not tearing down anyone, but you can't change the rules of the game in the middle of play. You can't just acknowledge one person's fault when someone before him set the standard. The bigger name gets the bigger draw. The reason why LeBron gets Lebron money is because he is Lebron, you can't give Chris Humphries LaBron money because he isn't the man. Same thing with Floyd you can't give Floyd J'Leon Love money and vica versa. The man has earned a right to demand as much as he wants. He paid his dues so it is only right that he gets to cash in.
checkleft
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 10:37 PM) *
Oscar did the same thing, it is nothing new and stop hating. Boxing is a business you see Arum being generous with his money with his fighters?



Chels86 I understand what you are saying bro, I do, but names draw people in. I think the casual fan could be educated if network tv did a spot for each fighter on the under card, take TNT or ESPN they can have features on the fighters. I guess we will see who is on the card in the next few weeks to come then the real bitching and complaining can start.

Yes they will (might) draw in more people. But what chels has been trying to say over and over and over again is that it more than likely will not happen because the fighters make more money on their own events even if its not ppv because they don't have to share the budget. That's not very hard to understand. No matter how good the event sells most of the people on the undercard get paid what they get paid, no revenue, unless your one of the big dogs (main eventers, co star, or promoters).

It's a nice idea tho.
mgrover
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 30 2012, 09:51 PM) *
He seems to call out Mayweather's greed as a reason why we can't have a good undercard


well its because the thread is about Mayweather, that's literally the only reason I haven't mentioned Arum, we all know what a blood sucker he is.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2012, 09:37 PM) *
Chels86 I understand what you are saying bro, I do, but names draw people in. I think the casual fan could be educated if network tv did a spot for each fighter on the under card, take TNT or ESPN they can have features on the fighters. I guess we will see who is on the card in the next few weeks to come then the real bitching and complaining can start.

Names? Is Adrian Broner a "name" to the general public?! Trout?! Gamboa?! More than likely, not. To us, yes...only because we follow their careers. ESPN needs to rerun FNFs more than just once on Friday nights, and I agree, more network tv stations need to pick up boxing.

It really wont help the stations to pick up boxing, if there are just gonna be a bunch of "I'm not here to talk, I'm just ready to fight" type of fighters. It's cool if guys just want to fight, but drama usually sells fights. These fighters need tv dates, badly, but as soon as most of them get to the big stage (or something close to it), they end up looking like shit against B-level competition.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 1 2013, 05:14 PM) *
Names? Is Adrian Broner a "name" to the general public?! Trout?! Gamboa?! More than likely, not. To us, yes...only because we follow their careers. ESPN needs to rerun FNFs more than just once on Friday nights, and I agree, more network tv stations need to pick up boxing.

It really wont help the stations to pick up boxing, if there are just gonna be a bunch of "I'm not here to talk, I'm just ready to fight" type of fighters. It's cool if guys just want to fight, but drama usually sells fights. These fighters need tv dates, badly, but as soon as most of them get to the big stage (or something close to it), they end up looking like shit against B-level competition.


They can give it a shot. All the undercards can have their own feature 24/7 will not be enough. There are reports that Floyd is fighting Robert Guerrero according to what Floyd Senior has stated. I am not looking forward to the fight. The only interesting dynamic will be if father and son are working together again. Wouldn't that be a bitch if Floyd took his first L under his dad... It will not happen but interesting storyline never the less.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 1 2013, 07:47 PM) *
They can give it a shot. All the undercards can have their own feature 24/7 will not be enough. There are reports that Floyd is fighting Robert Guerrero according to what Floyd Senior has stated. I am not looking forward to the fight. The only interesting dynamic will be if father and son are working together again. Wouldn't that be a bitch if Floyd took his first L under his dad... It will not happen but interesting storyline never the less.

We'll have to see about those reports. It seems that boxrec has jumped the gun and named Guerrero as Floyd's next opponent, so who knows.
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 30 2012, 04:51 PM) *
He seems to call out Mayweather's greed as a reason why we can't have a good undercard, my point was Oscar and other big name fighters have done the same thing, why single out one person? It is a business and no one is going to get punched in the face for the love of the sport at a professional level, they fight for prize money... Why does Mayweather get called greedy and self absorbed? Other boxers would love to get to his level. No one bitched when Oscar was getting 30 million dollar purses, but Mayweather demands the lion share and all of a sudden people care about fairness in the sport. Now if Canelo was asking for 30 million dollar purses and other names that have not earned the right to then yes he would have a argument, but we are talking about the top cat in boxing.

Im not tearing down anyone, but you can't change the rules of the game in the middle of play. You can't just acknowledge one person's fault when someone before him set the standard. The bigger name gets the bigger draw. The reason why LeBron gets Lebron money is because he is Lebron, you can't give Chris Humphries LaBron money because he isn't the man. Same thing with Floyd you can't give Floyd J'Leon Love money and vica versa. The man has earned a right to demand as much as he wants. He paid his dues so it is only right that he gets to cash in.


mayweather/ortiz was supposed to have a great undercard but fighters kept getting injured
Cshel86
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Jan 3 2013, 07:59 PM) *
mayweather/ortiz was supposed to have a great undercard but fighters kept getting injured

Yep, that roster of injuries was worse than a Week 9 NFL injury roster. First it was supposed to be Morales vs Crolla, then Morales vs Barrios, then Morales vs Matthysse...it all fell apart. Jessie Vargas was supposed to fight Alphonso Gomez, then he got injured. Then came Josesito Lopez as the final opponent selection. Yeah...that card had its share of issues and injuries.
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