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daprofessor
help refresh my memory....when was the last time arum promoted a top black fighter? it seems to me he signs them to protect his best interests.

would u sign with him if u were black?

i remember him playing the race card for kelly pavlik stating that he was being discriminated against because he was white. the black fighters he signs seem to be after thoughts.

what does this mean for tim bradley???
Kratza
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 2 2013, 08:37 PM) *
help refresh my memory....when was the last time arum promoted a top black fighter? it seems to me he signs them to protect his best interests.

would u sign with him if u were black?

i remember him playing the race card for kelly pavlik stating that he was being discriminated against because he was white. the black fighters he signs seem to be after thoughts.

what does this mean for tim bradley???

With me being half and half i consider myself more black than white which im sure most of society does although its not true, i think i would sign to TR over GBP but i'd join Al Haymon over anything if i had the chance, it seems evident that Top Rank is better at promoting young fighters than GBP but i also think Al Haymon is the best at promoting young black fighter and Haymon is where the money is and any fighter who signs with him has a chance at money and stardom and thats my reasoning

I see where you're going with the last time he promoted a black fighter but technically Gamboa, Rigondeaux and Fortuna are black fighters although they are not african-americans they all come from african descent

With Tim Bradley i don't really think he would have featured in any of Bob's plans whether he was black, white, green or blue and so thats why i think he's struggling to fight big names and get a big payday although on paper he just beat one of the best fighters in the world.
BigFightFan
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 2 2013, 03:37 PM) *
help refresh my memory....when was the last time arum promoted a top black fighter? it seems to me he signs them to protect his best interests.

would u sign with him if u were black?

i remember him playing the race card for kelly pavlik stating that he was being discriminated against because he was white. the black fighters he signs seem to be after thoughts.

what does this mean for tim bradley???

Bradley made $5mil vs pacquiao and was offered 2 mil to fight Peterson. I think it depends on the team around you(management and advisor) that matters when you sign with any promotional company.
Plah
Al Haymon all the way.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Kratza @ Jan 2 2013, 05:14 PM) *
With me being half and half i consider myself more black than white which im sure most of society does although its not true, i think i would sign to TR over GBP but i'd join Al Haymon over anything if i had the chance, it seems evident that Top Rank is better at promoting young fighters than GBP but i also think Al Haymon is the best at promoting young black fighter and Haymon is where the money is and any fighter who signs with him has a chance at money and stardom and thats my reasoning

I see where you're going with the last time he promoted a black fighter but technically Gamboa, Rigondeaux and Fortuna are black fighters although they are not african-americans they all come from african descent

With Tim Bradley i don't really think he would have featured in any of Bob's plans whether he was black, white, green or blue and so thats why i think he's struggling to fight big names and get a big payday although on paper he just beat one of the best fighters in the world.


no arguments on that. i agree, but are/were they being promoted by arum? gamboa had that fall out with arum over not wanting to extend his contract...and arum trying to serve him up to rios who is a physically bigger fighter but much lower skill level. that is an illustration of a promoter not exactly looking out for gamboa's best interest. ridondeaux has a title...and is a two time gold medalist!!! this guy is definitely something special...and arum really isn't pushing him.

i agree with ur take on haymon...he's definitely filling a void left by don king who knew how to promote any fighter.

technically...he is promoting gamboa even though 50 bought out his contract...and rigondeaux...but i can't help but think they should be bigger stars. let's not forget...the peterson brothers were both signed with arum. they really took back seat in that company. so did zahir raheem, joshua clottey and what ever happened to that black jewish guy he promoted anthony 'the messenger' thompson?

i can't help but think that arums plans with pac/bradley failed and bradley became the casualty in all of that. i don't see any real push for him to promote bradley and i seriously doubt bradley is going to flourish under him. i hope i'm wrong...but the pattern exists. i would be totally shocked if arum started putting on some 'black power' cards similar to the ones he was doing with donaire and his 'pinoy power' cards. i won't hold my breath.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Jan 2 2013, 06:49 PM) *
Bradley made $5mil vs pacquiao and was offered 2 mil to fight Peterson. I think it depends on the team around you(management and advisor) that matters when you sign with any promotional company.


i thought bradley had good management in thompson promotions...they basically built him...then he signed with gary shaw who helped some. when he let his contract expire with gary shaw...he got a new manager, cameron dunkin, who works closely with bob arum. dunkin seems to act in the best interest of top rank more than anything. anyone remember how they did kelly pavlik?
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 2 2013, 03:34 PM) *
i thought bradley had good management in thompson promotions...they basically built him...then he signed with gary shaw who helped some. when he let his contract expire with gary shaw...he got a new manager, cameron dunkin, who works closely with bob arum. dunkin seems to act in the best interest of top rank more than anything. anyone remember how they did kelly pavlik?


Where else would they go. Don King is a crook and GBP is for the Mexican boxer. Other promoters are too small to really get their name out. 50 maybe the answer but he already has beef with GBP and they have a lot of good fighters. Arum seems to be willing to promote people who enjoy getting bent over and smiling while getting bent over. The question is how can they promote themselves? One thing I respect about Oscar, Cotto, and May is that when they got off of the plantation and left their slave master they went in for themselves. They became the middle man and they have benefited greatly. Al Haymon seems to be doing well for African Americans but he is the minority of boxing promoters. The thing is more boxers need to learn and become experts of the business side of boxing so they can have their own promotion companies and be able to offer other boxers greater revenue than TR and other promotional companies.
mgrover
the question is if you were any fighter would you sell your soul to the devil lol
mrchitown
If I was a pro fighter or looking to turn pro, I'd roll with Haymon. He is clearly the manager/adviser who knows and does what it takes to nurture a talent and that just so happens to be mostly black fighters.

I'd never sign with TR and any black fighter who does deserves rotting in the wasteland they put themselves in. Arum has done numerous interviews where he claims that blacks don't buy ppv's which is total bs, but everyone knows you aint about to sell black folks a line of shit and think they gon go for it. Why would blacks continuously shell out their hard earned money to see fighters that don't resemble them. You have to make an effort to appeal to different markets, and Arum only goes after one demographic

Arum is the Mitt Romey of boxing. When Todd Duboef takes over TR will be different, until then people can expect what they're getting now. Dibella, Shaw..I would sign to them even though there a smaller company. Kathy Duva and Main Events is a company I'd sign to as well
checkleft
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 2 2013, 10:48 PM) *
Where else would they go. Don King is a crook and GBP is for the Mexican boxer. Other promoters are too small to really get their name out. 50 maybe the answer but he already has beef with GBP and they have a lot of good fighters. Arum seems to be willing to promote people who enjoy getting bent over and smiling while getting bent over. The question is how can they promote themselves? One thing I respect about Oscar, Cotto, and May is that when they got off of the plantation and left their slave master they went in for themselves. They became the middle man and they have benefited greatly. Al Haymon seems to be doing well for African Americans but he is the minority of boxing promoters. The thing is more boxers need to learn and become experts of the business side of boxing so they can have their own promotion companies and be able to offer other boxers greater revenue than TR and other promotional companies.


Haymon? I know the guy shy's away from the cameras but he does exist... I think lol
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jan 3 2013, 01:21 AM) *
If I was a pro fighter or looking to turn pro, I'd roll with Haymon. He is clearly the manager/adviser who knows and does what it takes to nurture a talent and that just so happens to be mostly black fighters.

I'd never sign with TR and any black fighter who does deserves rotting in the wasteland they put themselves in. Arum has done numerous interviews where he claims that blacks don't buy ppv's which is total bs, but everyone knows you aint about to sell black folks a line of shit and think they gon go for it. Why would blacks continuously shell out their hard earned money to see fighters that don't resemble them. You have to make an effort to appeal to different markets, and Arum only goes after one demographic

Arum is the Mitt Romey of boxing. When Todd Duboef takes over TR will be different, until then people can expect what they're getting now. Dibella, Shaw..I would sign to them even though there a smaller company. Kathy Duva and Main Events is a company I'd sign to as well


that's it....why would any black fighter sign with him and think that things are going to be different for them? all it takes is a little research to figure it out. arum had floyd mayweather who he called one of the greatest ever...and even said he was better than ali and leonard...and how did that promotion work for floyd? he still took back seat to arums other fighters.

i agree....i'd sign with dibella, main events, shaw all before i would sign with top rank. gbp hasn't proved to be much better....but the jury is still out on them when it comes to promoting black fighters.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 2 2013, 10:48 PM) *
Where else would they go. Don King is a crook and GBP is for the Mexican boxer. Other promoters are too small to really get their name out. 50 maybe the answer but he already has beef with GBP and they have a lot of good fighters. Arum seems to be willing to promote people who enjoy getting bent over and smiling while getting bent over. The question is how can they promote themselves? One thing I respect about Oscar, Cotto, and May is that when they got off of the plantation and left their slave master they went in for themselves. They became the middle man and they have benefited greatly. Al Haymon seems to be doing well for African Americans but he is the minority of boxing promoters. The thing is more boxers need to learn and become experts of the business side of boxing so they can have their own promotion companies and be able to offer other boxers greater revenue than TR and other promotional companies.


haymon has to be first option. dibella, main events and shaw are all options too. i'd rather see boxers focus on fighting and align themselves with the ppl that can guide them to the top. there are plenty of regional promoters that can get a fighter to the 10-15 and 0 mark before they have to sign with a bigger promoter. it is wise for a boxer to learn the business as his career progresses.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 2 2013, 10:51 PM) *
the question is if you were any fighter would you sell your soul to the devil lol


i guess that's what i'm getting at....signing with arum (if u are black) is like signing with the devil himself. laugh.gif
leonthegee
[quote name='Kratza' date='Jan 2 2013, 02:14 PM' post='571838']
With me being half and half i consider myself more black than white which im sure most of society does although its not true, i think i would sign to TR over GBP but i'd join Al Haymon over anything if i had the chance, it seems evident that Top Rank is better at promoting young fighters than GBP but i also think Al Haymon is the best at promoting young black fighter and Haymon is where the money is and any fighter who signs with him has a chance at money and stardom and thats my reasoning

I see where you're going with the last time he promoted a black fighter but technically Gamboa, Rigondeaux and Fortuna are black fighters although they are not african-americans they all come from african descent

With Tim Bradley i don't really think he would have featured in any of Bob's plans whether he was black, white, green or blue and so thats why i think he's struggling to fight big names and get a big payday although on paper he just beat one of the best fighters in the world.
[/quote

Totally disagree with everything you said. Arum is the one that told Floyd Mayweather hed never be a PPV star. You say he develops good young fighters. Jessie Vargas would disagree with that statement. He went from fighting on Mayweather undercards to fighting on ESPN FNFs on a Thursday by the way.
Franchize
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 2 2013, 10:51 PM) *
the question is if you were any fighter would you sell your soul to the devil lol


THIS!!! I wouldn't sign with him period but especially not as an African American. Good topic by the way. Not too many people point this out
Cshel86
I signed with TR around the same time that Bradley did...and I'm still on the shelf, posting on FightHype forums and such. cool.gif
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Kratza @ Jan 2 2013, 04:14 PM) *
With me being half and half i consider myself more black than white which im sure most of society does although its not true, i think i would sign to TR over GBP but i'd join Al Haymon over anything if i had the chance, it seems evident that Top Rank is better at promoting young fighters than GBP but i also think Al Haymon is the best at promoting young black fighter and Haymon is where the money is and any fighter who signs with him has a chance at money and stardom and thats my reasoning

I see where you're going with the last time he promoted a black fighter but technically Gamboa, Rigondeaux and Fortuna are black fighters although they are not african-americans they all come from african descent

With Tim Bradley i don't really think he would have featured in any of Bob's plans whether he was black, white, green or blue and so thats why i think he's struggling to fight big names and get a big payday although on paper he just beat one of the best fighters in the world.

Gamboa bolted, although he ended up with SMS who seem to be co-promoting with TR, but he definitely had enough.
Rigondeaux, IMO, is getting the short end of the stick. A man of his talents and legendary amateur career should be marketed to the fullest extent. In today's world of hyper-marketing/merchandising, stars aren't born, they're created.
Fortuna, let's see...
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 2 2013, 06:31 PM) *
no arguments on that. i agree, but are/were they being promoted by arum? gamboa had that fall out with arum over not wanting to extend his contract...and arum trying to serve him up to rios who is a physically bigger fighter but much lower skill level. that is an illustration of a promoter not exactly looking out for gamboa's best interest. ridondeaux has a title...and is a two time gold medalist!!! this guy is definitely something special...and arum really isn't pushing him.

i agree with ur take on haymon...he's definitely filling a void left by don king who knew how to promote any fighter.

technically...he is promoting gamboa even though 50 bought out his contract...and rigondeaux...but i can't help but think they should be bigger stars. let's not forget...the peterson brothers were both signed with arum. they really took back seat in that company. so did zahir raheem, joshua clottey and what ever happened to that black jewish guy he promoted anthony 'the messenger' thompson?

i can't help but think that arums plans with pac/bradley failed and bradley became the casualty in all of that. i don't see any real push for him to promote bradley and i seriously doubt bradley is going to flourish under him. i hope i'm wrong...but the pattern exists. i would be totally shocked if arum started putting on some 'black power' cards similar to the ones he was doing with donaire and his 'pinoy power' cards. i won't hold my breath.


Agreed with entire post.

I just cant see past a fight with Marquez what else Arum can do for him?

While we all know Arum loves to recycle TR fighters for his money fighter, I still dont see him as that.. in fact, imo he lost stock with his move to Arum and lost even more with his win against Pac. (Confusing I know)..

Arum is starting to lose star power with his guys and needs to invest heavily into Bradley starting NOW. He needs to be the man to beat and honestly, nobody gives a shit who he is other than us boxin folks. It was a gamble on Tim's side to Join TR, all he wanted was Pac. Well, he got Pac, got his payday, got the nod,.. but he lost the fight, and lost his Marketability (for now).

Black fighter or not, a move to Arum is like a deal with the devil.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 3 2013, 11:53 AM) *
I signed with TR around the same time that Bradley did...and I'm still on the shelf, posting on FightHype forums and such. cool.gif


u should buy out ur contract. how much u think it will take?
daprofessor
QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ Jan 3 2013, 01:01 PM) *
Agreed with entire post.

I just cant see past a fight with Marquez what else Arum can do for him?

While we all know Arum loves to recycle TR fighters for his money fighter, I still dont see him as that.. in fact, imo he lost stock with his move to Arum and lost even more with his win against Pac. (Confusing I know)..

Arum is starting to lose star power with his guys and needs to invest heavily into Bradley starting NOW. He needs to be the man to beat and honestly, nobody gives a shit who he is other than us boxin folks. It was a gamble on Tim's side to Join TR, all he wanted was Pac. Well, he got Pac, got his payday, got the nod,.. but he lost the fight, and lost his Marketability (for now).

Black fighter or not, a move to Arum is like a deal with the devil.


he did right by pavlik in the beginning...

he did right by yuri foreman...

he did right by cotto in the beginning...

he should have dropped margarito a loooooooong time ago but rode that one until the wheels fell off...

he's promoting the shit out of donaire....how the fuck is he fighter of the year for beating 4 guys who had zero chance of winning?

he promoted the shit out of chavez too!

if you're white or latino...u got a better chance with arum and u don't exactly have to have a clean cut image.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Kratza @ Jan 2 2013, 04:14 PM) *
i think i would sign to TR over GBP but i'd join Al Haymon over anything if i had the chance, it seems evident that Top Rank is better at promoting young fighters than GBP but i also think Al Haymon is the best at promoting young black fighter and Haymon is where the money is and any fighter who signs with him has a chance at money and stardom and thats my reasoning

You're already asking for trouble Kratza, lol. Haymon and Arum despise each other, so you'd have to pick sides immediately. If Arum even thought that you'd consider Haymon for your manager, he probably make you suffer at the snap of a finger.

QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 2 2013, 06:31 PM) *
let's not forget...the peterson brothers were both signed with arum. they really took back seat in that company. so did zahir raheem, joshua clottey and what ever happened to that black jewish guy he promoted anthony 'the messenger' thompson?

i can't help but think that arums plans with pac/bradley failed and bradley became the casualty in all of that. i don't see any real push for him to promote bradley and i seriously doubt bradley is going to flourish under him. i hope i'm wrong...but the pattern exists.

I totally forgot that the Peterson brothers were signed with TR, and I've been watching them since 2007 in their FNFs days. The saddest part is, it looks as if they'll be going back to Arum sooner than later.

If you remember Lamont and the whole PED scandal, Hunter made it cleared that "Bob reached out us and helped", so I see Arum playing his hand in trying to promote him again, in a "return the favor" type deal.

That shit sounded all too reminiscent of Manny's situation, in which Arum played the father figure role with his career, especially after the Golden Boy nonsense. Lamont isn't dumb, but he's getting older, and I dont see many promoters checking for him.

Maybe he wants to be a free agent, but look how far it's gotten him...a $70k purse bid for a failed Judah fight negotiation. How is a guy a champion, and looks to spilt $70k? Weird.

Arum would look like the ultimate hero for reviving Peterson's reputation and career...look what he did to Margarito's career. Dude should've been banned for life, but yet, he was able to come back to the sport, fight once in Mexico, get a big payday against Manny, and a critically acclaimed rematch with Cotto. Doesn't sound all that bad to me.

I dont Bradley going too far with TR at this point. I almost felt like Lamont was about to get signed with TR again, when the rematch rumors were looming. Timmy trusted Bob a bit too much and turned down a $2.(somethin)M payday against a guy that he already beat. I mean c'mon Tim, you already beat him, fight him again. From what I've heard, Bradley has hired somebody to come in and handle this whole issue, which could lead to another litigation...something Bradley's quite familiar with. Sad thing is, he may not leave this litigation unscathed.
mgrover
If Arum wanted Bradley to be the big next thing he can do it with a click of his fingers, but he doesn't so now Bradley is going nowhere till Arum dies.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 3 2013, 03:18 PM) *
You're already asking for trouble Kratza, lol. Haymon and Arum despise each other, so you'd have to pick sides immediately. If Arum even thought that you'd consider Haymon for your manager, he probably make you suffer at the snap of a finger.


I totally forgot that the Peterson brothers were signed with TR, and I've been watching them since 2007 in their FNFs days. The saddest part is, it looks as if they'll be going back to Arum sooner than later.

If you remember Lamont and the whole PED scandal, Hunter made it cleared that "Bob reached out us and helped", so I see Arum playing his hand in trying to promote him again, in a "return the favor" type deal.

That shit sounded all too reminiscent of Manny's situation, in which Arum played the father figure role with his career, especially after the Golden Boy nonsense. Lamont isn't dumb, but he's getting older, and I dont see many promoters checking for him.

Maybe he wants to be a free agent, but look how far it's gotten him...a $70k purse bid for a failed Judah fight negotiation. How is a guy a champion, and looks to spilt $70k? Weird.

Arum would look like the ultimate hero for reviving Peterson's reputation and career...look what he did to Margarito's career. Dude should've been banned for life, but yet, he was able to come back to the sport, fight once in Mexico, get a big payday against Manny, and a critically acclaimed rematch with Cotto. Doesn't sound all that bad to me.

I dont Bradley going too far with TR at this point. I almost felt like Lamont was about to get signed with TR again, when the rematch rumors were looming. Timmy trusted Bob a bit too much and turned down a $2.(somethin)M payday against a guy that he already beat. I mean c'mon Tim, you already beat him, fight him again. From what I've heard, Bradley has hired somebody to come in and handle this whole issue, which could lead to another litigation...something Bradley's quite familiar with. Sad thing is, he may not leave this litigation unscathed.


petersons would have been better served with haymon...but haymon's roster is deep in the 140-147 bracket. going back to arum may be his best option. he'll play second fiddle to who ever bob has at that weight. i wouldn't be shocked if bob uses him to revive pacquiao's career.

arum is a harvard educated lawyer....there's no way in hell timmeh is coming out of that situation with anything but the short end of the stick. when bob said that bradley thought he lost and said so to bob...and timmy came back and called him a liar and said he didn't say that...i knew that was the beginning of the end. hopefully someone close to the situation explains to him how this works. more than likely he'll have to kiss bob's ass publicly the way nonito did to get back into his good graces. at least nonito had his wife to blame. wait...maybe timmeh can do the same!? laugh.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 3 2013, 03:33 PM) *
If Arum wanted Bradley to be the big next thing he can do it with a click of his fingers, but he doesn't so now Bradley is going nowhere till Arum dies.



damn.
Hotsauce
wasn't roy jones independent?
Hotsauce
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 3 2013, 07:53 PM) *
petersons would have been better served with haymon...but haymon's roster is deep in the 140-147 bracket. going back to arum may be his best option. he'll play second fiddle to who ever bob has at that weight. i wouldn't be shocked if bob uses him to revive pacquiao's career.

arum is a harvard educated lawyer....there's no way in hell timmeh is coming out of that situation with anything but the short end of the stick. when bob said that bradley thought he lost and said so to bob...and timmy came back and called him a liar and said he didn't say that...i knew that was the beginning of the end. hopefully someone close to the situation explains to him how this works. more than likely he'll have to kiss bob's ass publicly the way nonito did to get back into his good graces. at least nonito had his wife to blame. wait...maybe timmeh can do the same!? laugh.gif



but didn't oscar, floyd, and cotto leave arum?
daprofessor
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Jan 3 2013, 08:54 PM) *
wasn't roy jones independent?


yes and so was bhop. it's a big part of why both receive criticism for their opposition at times.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Jan 3 2013, 08:56 PM) *
but didn't oscar, floyd, and cotto leave arum?



oscar and cotto let their contracts expire and walked away. easy for them to do considering the level they were at.

floyd had to buy out his contract.

i don't know the terms of bradley's contract...but i do know the ink has barely dried on it. it'll probably be some time before he can walk away. i think he's going to be shelved.

on a different note....gbp doesn't seem to be much better judging from the story james kirkland is telling.
Hotsauce
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 3 2013, 08:40 PM) *
yes and so was bhop. it's a big part of why both receive criticism for their opposition at times.


is that why those guys weren't ppv fighters?
daprofessor
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Jan 3 2013, 10:15 PM) *
is that why those guys weren't ppv fighters?


QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 3 2013, 09:40 PM) *
yes and so was bhop. it's a big part of why both received criticism for their opposition at times.


smile.gif

they didn't do big ppv numbers...but they were definitely ppv caliber fighters in my mind. i think bhop did his biggest numbers with trinidad. not sure what roys biggest ppv fight was...maybe ruiz?
Hotsauce
more fighters should be independent
daprofessor
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Jan 4 2013, 01:36 AM) *
more fighters should be independent


more top level fighters...yes. every fighter? no. boxing would be held hostage by every guy who over estimates his value.
Franchize
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 3 2013, 02:57 PM) *
he did right by pavlik in the beginning...

he did right by yuri foreman...

he did right by cotto in the beginning...

he should have dropped margarito a loooooooong time ago but rode that one until the wheels fell off...

he's promoting the shit out of donaire....how the fuck is he fighter of the year for beating 4 guys who had zero chance of winning?

he promoted the shit out of chavez too!

if you're white or latino...u got a better chance with arum and u don't exactly have to have a clean cut image.


Yea but you could argue in the case of Cotto, Donaire and especially Chavez...they promoted themselves. Cotto was once as adored as Manny. He was the new IT guy for Puerto Rico. Donaire is kinda the next Manny for Filipino fans and Chavez didnt need promoting.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 2 2013, 02:37 PM) *
help refresh my memory....when was the last time arum promoted a top black fighter? it seems to me he signs them to protect his best interests.

would u sign with him if u were black?

i remember him playing the race card for kelly pavlik stating that he was being discriminated against because he was white. the black fighters he signs seem to be after thoughts.

what does this mean for tim bradley???


Question 1: Not No, but HELL NO!!

The black fighters are afterthoughts, look how he's dissin Bradley.

Nothing at all for Brad, he doesn't care about Tim, Brad isn't a big puncher and doesn't attract the kid of crowd the Money Hungry Arum wants.

daprofessor
QUOTE (Franchize @ Jan 4 2013, 11:41 AM) *
Yea but you could argue in the case of Cotto, Donaire and especially Chavez...they promoted themselves. Cotto was once as adored as Manny. He was the new IT guy for Puerto Rico. Donaire is kinda the next Manny for Filipino fans and Chavez didnt need promoting.


a big part of promoting is matchmaking. knowing how to select opposition that will help your fighter grow...build his skill set...build his confidence. top rank is one of the best at this when it comes to fighters they want to promote. cotto had a semi built in fan base at msg because of tito. chavez definitely had his pops name to fall on...but make no mistake about it, top rank protected them by selecting the right opposition at the right time to help build them into the stars they became. donaire is getting the same treatment right now and has benefited from the work arum put in with pac.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Franchize @ Jan 4 2013, 11:41 AM) *
Yea but you could argue in the case of Cotto, Donaire and especially Chavez...they promoted themselves. Cotto was once as adored as Manny. He was the new IT guy for Puerto Rico. Donaire is kinda the next Manny for Filipino fans and Chavez didnt need promoting.


a big part of promoting is matchmaking. knowing how to select opposition that will help your fighter grow...build his skill set...build his confidence. top rank is one of the best at this when it comes to fighters they want to promote. cotto had a semi built in fan base at msg because of tito. chavez definitely had his pops name to fall on...but make no mistake about it, top rank protected them by selecting the right opposition at the right time to help build them into the stars they became. donaire is getting the same treatment right now and has benefited from the work arum put in with pac.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Jan 4 2013, 02:43 PM) *
Question 1: Not No, but HELL NO!!

The black fighters are afterthoughts, look how he's dissin Bradley.

Nothing at all for Brad, he doesn't care about Tim, Brad isn't a big puncher and doesn't attract the kid of crowd the Money Hungry Arum wants.


bradley is top 2 or 3 at welterweight and light welter. he is money in the bank and will not be beaten anytime soon. he has the potential to be a big star if given the right opposition. he doesn't need to be a huge puncher to accomplish this. i think some opponents that will help him shine are guys like garcia, ortiz, rios, maidana, guerrero, berto, khan and ultimately matthysse. i'd favor him over all of them except for matthysse...that's even money. problem is...with the exception of rios...all of the fighters i named are gbp fighters. arum won't roll the dice against them.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 4 2013, 02:02 PM) *
bradley is top 2 or 3 at welterweight and light welter. he is money in the bank and will not be beaten anytime soon. he has the potential to be a big star if given the right opposition. he doesn't need to be a huge puncher to accomplish this. i think some opponents that will help him shine are guys like garcia, ortiz, rios, maidana, guerrero, berto, khan and ultimately matthysse. i'd favor him over all of them except for matthysse...that's even money. problem is...with the exception of rios...all of the fighters i named are gbp fighters. arum won't roll the dice against them.

That's putting a lot of chips on Bradley. I think he's good but there are definitely some guys at 140-147 that would be more than a handful for him.

Btw I hope no one ever mentions guerrero and Bradley in the same sentence again! Lol that would be the most shit riddled dirty fight ever! Imagine Bradley vs Alexander 10X!!! The unrated version with exclusive punching while grabbing and thumbing in hd.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jan 4 2013, 04:43 PM) *
That's putting a lot of chips on Bradley. I think he's good but there are definitely some guys at 140-147 that would be more than a handful for him.

Btw I hope no one ever mentions guerrero and Bradley in the same sentence again! Lol that would be the most shit riddled dirty fight ever! Imagine Bradley vs Alexander 10X!!! The unrated version with exclusive punching while grabbing and thumbing in hd.



bradley is that good! i'd put him at #1 at 140lbs....and #2 or 3 at 147.

he was breaking alexander down and was about to tear off into him before that headbutt happened. the headbutt robbed him of a good finish. alexander quit in that one.

as for guerrero/bradley...that would be a helluva match up!!! both guys come to fight. i'd give the slight edge to bradley but wouldn't be shocked if guerrero beat him.

i don't get all the hate for them. laugh.gif i think it's only because both are/were gunning for the big dogs. nothing wrong with that. bradley did what he said he would...he beat pac...and i think guerrero is going to shock a lot of ppl when he fights floyd. both are very worthy top notch fighters.

on a side note...bradley needs a soft touch in his next bout to knock off some of the rust. his last two lay offs have been long as shit. that's not good for any fighter.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 4 2013, 09:25 PM) *
bradley is that good! i'd put him at #1 at 140lbs....and #2 or 3 at 147.

he was breaking alexander down and was about to tear off into him before that headbutt happened. the headbutt robbed him of a good finish. alexander quit in that one.

as for guerrero/bradley...that would be a helluva match up!!! both guys come to fight. i'd give the slight edge to bradley but wouldn't be shocked if guerrero beat him.

i don't get all the hate for them. laugh.gif i think it's only because both are/were gunning for the big dogs. nothing wrong with that. bradley did what he said he would...he beat pac...and i think guerrero is going to shock a lot of ppl when he fights floyd. both are very worthy top notch fighters.

on a side note...bradley needs a soft touch in his next bout to knock off some of the rust. his last two lay offs have been long as shit. that's not good for any fighter.

on an even more side note WTF ever happened to the Khan fight. Bradley turned that down to sell his soul to the devil and he deserves to be where hes at. No sympathy from me at all, he could of fought Khan when Khan was at the top of his game, but instead he let Peterson do it, and ultimately Garcia.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 4 2013, 08:29 PM) *
on an even more side note WTF ever happened to the Khan fight. Bradley turned that down to sell his soul to the devil and he deserves to be where hes at. No sympathy from me at all, he could of fought Khan when Khan was at the top of his game, but instead he let Peterson do it, and ultimately Garcia.


i can't blame him for wanting out of his contract with gary shaw...and who knew the bradley/pac fight aftermath would play out the way it did?

khan waited until he knew bradley had promoter issues to call him out...even then he did it in a bitch way underneath his breath and what not. i never thought khan had a chance against bradley and i think the peterson and garcia fights proved that.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 5 2013, 01:02 AM) *
i can't blame him for wanting out of his contract with gary shaw...and who knew the bradley/pac fight aftermath would play out the way it did?

khan waited until he knew bradley had promoter issues to call him out...even then he did it in a bitch way underneath his breath and what not. i never thought khan had a chance against bradley and i think the peterson and garcia fights proved that.


it is what it is, what about when Bradley was offered a 50-50 split and half the UK PPV money? I remember somebody saying oh think again that may not be all that much but it was still more than Bradley was capable of producing. Bradley went after the big fish win lose or draw with Pac he was never realistically going anywhere with Arum. I don't know what his contract was like with Gary Shaw tbh but these lay offs can't be good for business.
checkleft
I think Bradley is solid but guerrero is a cheat man.. in my opinion. If he's such a warrior there's no need for all the shit he does
BigFightFan
I 100% agree check, The Ghost is a dirty fighter. He held and hit Berto in the eye 5 or 6 times and that's what caused the initial swelling. Not sure why berto didn't put his hands up.
BigFightFan
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 3 2013, 02:33 PM) *
If Arum wanted Bradley to be the big next thing he can do it with a click of his fingers, but he doesn't so now Bradley is going nowhere till Arum dies.

To make Bradley the next big thing it would take Bob Arum, God, all the angels above, and maybe the tooth fairy. Bradley is just not PPV material unless he is fighting someone who is a PPV attraction.
checkleft
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Jan 5 2013, 01:10 PM) *
To make Bradley the next big thing it would take Bob Arum, God, all the angels above, and maybe the tooth fairy. Bradley is just not PPV material unless he is fighting someone who is a PPV attraction.

I agree with this. Bradley just isn't convincing to me as the villain, I like his character as it was. Nobody likes a phony. I think Bradley is more of a Hopkins type guy, works his ass off, incredible determinations and confidence, and a very technical fighter without much pop. And like Hopkins he won't be a ppv attraction.

If I was Bradley, I would fight out of my contract ASAP if I didn't get manny or marquez next and go after Floyd.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 4 2013, 09:42 PM) *
it is what it is, what about when Bradley was offered a 50-50 split and half the UK PPV money? I remember somebody saying oh think again that may not be all that much but it was still more than Bradley was capable of producing. Bradley went after the big fish win lose or draw with Pac he was never realistically going anywhere with Arum. I don't know what his contract was like with Gary Shaw tbh but these lay offs can't be good for business.


getting the pac fight trumped any offer khan could have possibly made. i don't think anyone in that position would think the khan fight was the better option.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jan 5 2013, 01:05 AM) *
I think Bradley is solid but guerrero is a cheat man.. in my opinion. If he's such a warrior there's no need for all the shit he does


yes he is...right in line with guys like mares and bhop. i don't think anyone is going to call him crafty the way they do with hopkins...but u are absolutely right. i don't like it...but it's exactly why i believe he's going to make things very tough for floyd.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 4 2013, 01:02 PM) *
bradley is top 2 or 3 at welterweight and light welter. he is money in the bank and will not be beaten anytime soon. he has the potential to be a big star if given the right opposition. he doesn't need to be a huge puncher to accomplish this. i think some opponents that will help him shine are guys like garcia, ortiz, rios, maidana, guerrero, berto, khan and ultimately matthysse. i'd favor him over all of them except for matthysse...that's even money. problem is...with the exception of rios...all of the fighters i named are gbp fighters. arum won't roll the dice against them.



Poffy, while I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've stated here, the bottom line fact is that in order for Arum to get 100% behind a black fighter that fighter has to have skills like Floyd or punching power like Tyson with a super big mouth and libido so that Bob can market him properly.

Arum is unwilling to go all out marketing Brad like he did Pac for two reasons: he is not a big puncher, he doesn't have a huge following or opposition lined up against him/The Villian. Bradley is a supernice Christian black man without KO power and without a big mouth and he will not play the Villian in order to sell himself out either.

If Bob had Broner then you can best believe he'd be marketing him as better than Floyd and some sort of KO machine much in the same fashion as he did with Pac.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 5 2013, 07:11 PM) *
getting the pac fight trumped any offer khan could have possibly made. i don't think anyone in that position would think the khan fight was the better option.


this was a while before any Pac fight.
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