Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: I Just Thought About Something...
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
Cshel86
As I watched Pac/JMM 4 during the pageantry...I just had this weird realization. As I heard the anthem for the Philippines....I just couldn't help but to think...nobody in fuckin' hell is ever gonna replace Manny Pacquiao.

As Donaire and Gesta's names scroll through my head...I just see tumbleweed bouncing. I see nothing past that. All I can remember is the night of May 2004 when I saw a relentless little Filipino monster who couldn't get tired to save his life, coupled with a then unknown Mexican fighter who wouldn't give it up.

Just watching Manny warm up and the crowd drooling over him, I just dont see another Filipino fighter replacing him, or being better than him (popularity wise) for a looooong time. Regardless of how I feel about his shitty team and his crazed fans...I just have to see this dude fight at least 3 more times before he hangs them up.

There's no telling when we'll ever hear that Philippines anthem again. Donaire is poo-poo and couldn't even buy fans if he wanted to, and Gesta is just...well, who is he?

What do you guys think?

PS: Booze are involved in this post.
checkleft
Coming out of such a small islands and being such an exciting fighter I doubt we will see another fighter from the Philippines again. But like Puerto Rico with Tito I'm sure their will be a cotto that can take the torch, not to the same extent, from manny.
mrchitown
It's obvious that TR is trying to hype Donaire...and to a lesser extent Gesta, up as the next big thing out of the Philippines. I don't see either one coming anywhere near Manny's level though.

My thing with Donaire is I believe fans are starting to see thru his bull crap, he talks a good game but he doesn't back it up truthfully, I read an interview he recently did talking about the Rigo and Mares fights were not going to happen soon. He talks as if he's top dog and he's not. I think he loses to Mares if they ever lace up. And if he goes up to 126 he better stay clear of Russell or it'll be night night. Gesta fights are just uninspiring
MaxPayne
Agreed. There won't be another Pacquiao for decades, perhaps.

Gesta is a scrub. I also hate to break it to Donaire fans, but here's the deal: he's good, but will never be as good as Pacquiao.

The depth of Pacquiao's popularity in the Philippines is mind-boggling. To think that all crime stops when he fights, because even the most hardcore of gangbangers are indoors, watching the fight, is unfathomable.

I'm glad we were able to witness him at his best.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 6 2013, 12:22 AM) *
As I watched Pac/JMM 4 during the pageantry...I just had this weird realization. As I heard the anthem for the Philippines....I just couldn't help but to think...nobody in fuckin' hell is ever gonna replace Manny Pacquiao.

As Donaire and Gesta's names scroll through my head...I just see tumbleweed bouncing. I see nothing past that. All I can remember is the night of May 2004 when I saw a relentless little Filipino monster who couldn't get tired to save his life, coupled with a then unknown Mexican fighter who wouldn't give it up.

Just watching Manny warm up and the crowd drooling over him, I just dont see another Filipino fighter replacing him, or being better than him (popularity wise) for a looooong time. Regardless of how I feel about his shitty team and his crazed fans...I just have to see this dude fight at least 3 more times before he hangs them up.

There's no telling when we'll ever hear that Philippines anthem again. Donaire is poo-poo and couldn't even buy fans if he wanted to, and Gesta is just...well, who is he?

What do you guys think?

PS: Booze are involved in this post.


honestly...it'll be a long time before boxing has another pacquiao of any race. that dude is larger than life and transcends boxing like no one since ali. even though i thought his ascension through the ranks and weight classes was smoke and mirrors...there's no denying his popularity.

donaire, if he can get past mares and rigondeaux impressively, will be a huge star. he has the opportunity for a shot at greatness. we'll see...

as for gesta...he never even registered on the radar. i think his last fight showed he doesn't belong.
Franchize
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 6 2013, 12:22 AM) *
As I watched Pac/JMM 4 during the pageantry...I just had this weird realization. As I heard the anthem for the Philippines....I just couldn't help but to think...nobody in fuckin' hell is ever gonna replace Manny Pacquiao.

As Donaire and Gesta's names scroll through my head...I just see tumbleweed bouncing. I see nothing past that. All I can remember is the night of May 2004 when I saw a relentless little Filipino monster who couldn't get tired to save his life, coupled with a then unknown Mexican fighter who wouldn't give it up.

Just watching Manny warm up and the crowd drooling over him, I just dont see another Filipino fighter replacing him, or being better than him (popularity wise) for a looooong time. Regardless of how I feel about his shitty team and his crazed fans...I just have to see this dude fight at least 3 more times before he hangs them up.

There's no telling when we'll ever hear that Philippines anthem again. Donaire is poo-poo and couldn't even buy fans if he wanted to, and Gesta is just...well, who is he?

What do you guys think?

PS: Booze are involved in this post.


I totally agree, which is why I stil want to see Mayweather vs Pacquiao. People always talk about soccer as being this great international sport...but soccer isn't that popular here. People talk about tennis being a great international sport...but tennis in America is weakening. People talk about golf being a good international sport...but golf has an age group restriction as far as it's core audience. EVERYBODY loves a good fight. Ultimately, regardless of who you root for or whether you cheer for anyone inparticular at all, there is once thing that can be said. Mayweather, Cotto, Pacquiao and Hatton kept boxing alive! We've seen guys go to war like Rios, Alvarado, Garcia, Chavez Jr, Bradley, Maidana, Matthysse, Magarito. No casual fan goes out their way to see those guys fight still. We see master technicians like Hopkins, Ward and MArtinez and Dawson to an extent. No casual fans go out their way to see those guys either. The energy behind a Hatton, Pacquiao, Mayweather or Cotto fight hasn't been felt since the 80's and 90's. I think those guys' contributions to the sport OUTSIDE of the ring has been greatly underappreciated. Their fan base and magnetic personas are unlike anybody else in the sport. Furthermore, other than maybe Broner, I don't see anybody on the horizon who's going to garner the attention these guys have.
pimpfighterROQ
I'm surprised Cshel said something actually nice about Pacquiao lol. jk.

But anyways, yes. I believe there will never be another Manny Pacquiao. I remember during the Hatton fight when I was in the Philippines. They air the fights there on a Sunday afternoon. It pissed me the hell off because I couldn't go anywhere. There was no transportation available. I stayed in a semi suburban area. I'm like wtf is this, it's like a ghost town. Businesses were still open but no one is buying or paying attention since they're all glued to the tv.

I have never seen anything like it. Not Donaire or even any other boxer Filipino or not has captured attention like Pacquiao has done. Mind you during the Pac Marquez fight, we all hear the Mexican fans but thats just the norm when there's a Mexican boxer fighting. It happened with Mayweather vs Marquez, Chavez jr vs Martinez.

But to transcend a sport that casual fans (Pactards) even pay attention to boxing is unreal. I guess its because of Pacquiao's upbringing. He's story is pure true. Came from poverty, rose thru the ranks and fought the way boxing image is. Toe to toe action.

I'm just amazed that the American public rejoiced Pacquiao's presence in boxing for too long. Floyd Mayweather, as popular as he is. He had to put on a persona, a character and his Godly skill to just watch him. Pacquiao on the other hand is different.

This is what they call charisma. People sometimes just has that special something that just grabs people's attention. It happened with Sugar Ray Leonard, and Oscar Dela Hoya. Even though Dela hoya lost all his big fights. People just came to watch him.


Sad, Filipino boxers have more sad story than Pacquiao has but never will they be recognized. They just don't have IT.

I too hope Pacquiao stays fighting for one more year at least. Win or lose, ktfo or not. He's exciting to watch and will always watch him fight.
Cshel86
QUOTE (pimpfighterROQ @ Jan 7 2013, 02:39 PM) *
I'm surprised Cshel said something actually nice about Pacquiao lol. jk.

But anyways, yes. I believe there will never be another Manny Pacquiao. I remember during the Hatton fight when I was in the Philippines. They air the fights there on a Sunday afternoon. It pissed me the hell off because I couldn't go anywhere. There was no transportation available. I stayed in a semi suburban area. I'm like wtf is this, it's like a ghost town. Businesses were still open but no one is buying or paying attention since they're all glued to the tv.

I have never seen anything like it. Not Donaire or even any other boxer Filipino or not has captured attention like Pacquiao has done. Mind you during the Pac Marquez fight, we all hear the Mexican fans but thats just the norm when there's a Mexican boxer fighting. It happened with Mayweather vs Marquez, Chavez jr vs Martinez.

But to transcend a sport that casual fans (Pactards) even pay attention to boxing is unreal. I guess its because of Pacquiao's upbringing. He's story is pure true. Came from poverty, rose thru the ranks and fought the way boxing image is. Toe to toe action.

I'm just amazed that the American public rejoiced Pacquiao's presence in boxing for too long. Floyd Mayweather, as popular as he is. He had to put on a persona, a character and his Godly skill to just watch him. Pacquiao on the other hand is different.

This is what they call charisma. People sometimes just has that special something that just grabs people's attention. It happened with Sugar Ray Leonard, and Oscar Dela Hoya. Even though Dela hoya lost all his big fights. People just came to watch him.


Sad, Filipino boxers have more sad story than Pacquiao has but never will they be recognized. They just don't have IT.

I too hope Pacquiao stays fighting for one more year at least. Win or lose, ktfo or not. He's exciting to watch and will always watch him fight.

laugh.gif

Whats up Pimp! I have my moments when I say bad stuff about Manny, but its more aimed towards his fan base, than anything. NOW, if you wanna see me say some crazy stuff, then read some of the stuff that I post in Canelo and Robert Guerrero threads...no mercy whatsoever. Lol

Is there a reason that you were in the Philippines during the Hatton/Pac fight? Military? Family?

I agree with your points and everyone else's above...there will NEVER be another Manny Pacquiao...unless it's followed by "Jr." Lol. Hell, even Michael Jordan's son caught hell after walking in his dad's shoes. I guess the struggle separated him from his son. The same goes for Floyd's kids...it's hard to fill your dad's shoes when you've grown up without the same adversaries as he did.

Floyd Jr's case was a bit different. I guess his father's incarceration, still living in poverty, and his motivation to change all of that, made him what he is. If we all remember correctly, his dad wasn't all that special as a pro and his defense wasn't appreciated as it is today when FMJ exhibits it. So I guess that situation made it a tangible goal for Floyd to be achieve and exceed.

Really though, having a whole country behind you, is hard to top. Manny's given situation as a child, made it that much greater when he became a star. I can't imagine Donaire in the dressing room warming up the Filippino anthem...dude just doesn't have it. He hasn't even been built to be a star. I go back and look at Manny's career upbringing...the Barrera fight (where nobody gave him a chance), the first Marquez fight, and his Morales fights. At the lower weights, those fights pretty much sealed the deal, and showed us that Donaire will NEVER fill those shoes..regardless of his future opponents.

Pacquiao made motherfuckers PROUD to be Filippino. Hell, sometimes I wanna try to blend in with some Filippinos, just to feel like I'm a part of something. Lol.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 5 2013, 09:22 PM) *
As I watched Pac/JMM 4 during the pageantry...I just had this weird realization. As I heard the anthem for the Philippines....I just couldn't help but to think...nobody in fuckin' hell is ever gonna replace Manny Pacquiao.

As Donaire and Gesta's names scroll through my head...I just see tumbleweed bouncing. I see nothing past that. All I can remember is the night of May 2004 when I saw a relentless little Filipino monster who couldn't get tired to save his life, coupled with a then unknown Mexican fighter who wouldn't give it up.

Just watching Manny warm up and the crowd drooling over him, I just dont see another Filipino fighter replacing him, or being better than him (popularity wise) for a looooong time. Regardless of how I feel about his shitty team and his crazed fans...I just have to see this dude fight at least 3 more times before he hangs them up.

There's no telling when we'll ever hear that Philippines anthem again. Donaire is poo-poo and couldn't even buy fans if he wanted to, and Gesta is just...well, who is he?

What do you guys think?

PS: Booze are involved in this post.


You think about Filipino boxers when you drink bro? Good riddance. He was a hype job. If the Filipino's can produce a real champion than people will be interested. The Filipino Flab Donaire is a waste and Gesta just sounds boring. One day the Filipino people will look back at the Pacquiao experience and realize they were hookwinked. Manny is like a boyband in three years he is forgotten. And is their national anthem really that catchy? No. Now the Ugandan National Anthem makes you want to get buck and go HAM on everyone. lol
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 8 2013, 12:18 AM) *
[/b]

You think about Filipino boxers when you drink bro? Good riddance. He was a hype job. If the Filipino's can produce a real champion than people will be interested. The Filipino Flab Donaire is a waste and Gesta just sounds boring. One day the Filipino people will look back at the Pacquiao experience and realize they were hookwinked. Manny is like a boyband in three years he is forgotten. And is their national anthem really that catchy? No. Now the Ugandan National Anthem makes you want to get buck and go HAM on everyone. lol

No funny guy, I dont think about Filippino boxers when I drink. Though Manny's post-130 lb career was mostly hype and great matchmaking, he's still a star. Doesn't that happen with all of the megastars in boxing? You cant deny those Barrera, Morales, and Marquez fights...nobody can.

Take a listen at their national anthem for yourself, no need for me to explain it. Point is, you wont be hearing it while a megastar is preparing to enter the ring. Instead, it will more than likely be shoved down our throats.

mgrover
I don't think anyone in this era of boxing has the type of support he does, he could come out tomorrow and say he has a substance problem for example and the whole world not just his country would be behind him.

What I was happy about actually that when he lost to Marquez, in the post fight he didn't make any excuses, any bullshit, no mention of OSDT, no mention of Marquez's physique, he'll it was even him that said it was a punch he didn't see rather than new found power by Marquez. I mean how many people are genuinely like that? We all saw how Khan reacted the second it seemed that Peterson was on something.

I guess that's the power of being the 'good guy'. His two main rivals, Marquez and Mayweather to an extent, do they even command the same type of support?
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 8 2013, 08:00 AM) *
No funny guy, I dont think about Filippino boxers when I drink. Though Manny's post-130 lb career was mostly hype and great matchmaking, he's still a star. Doesn't that happen with all of the megastars in boxing? You cant deny those Barrera, Morales, and Marquez fights...nobody can.

Take a listen at their national anthem for yourself, no need for me to explain it. Point is, you wont be hearing it while a megastar is preparing to enter the ring. Instead, it will more than likely be shoved down our throats.


Dude you just stated that alcohol was involved in your post its whatever.

His fights at the lower level were great and even legitimate and i think I like that version of Pacquiao anyway. When he started moving up and the catch weights the BS 8 weight championships BS that is when he lost me. Then the steroids allegations it was too much plus the hype that was behind him buried my liking for him. There maybe another great Filipino boxer in the years to come, I do not see the Filipino Flab and Gesta as the next in line. People said that there will never be another Mayweather and we have Broner the closest thing. So chin up and dry your eyes the Island will rise again.
Dolimite
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 8 2013, 08:25 AM) *
I don't think anyone in this era of boxing has the type of support he does, he could come out tomorrow and say he has a substance problem for example and the whole world not just his country would be behind him.

What I was happy about actually that when he lost to Marquez, in the post fight he didn't make any excuses, any bullshit, no mention of OSDT, no mention of Marquez's physique, he'll it was even him that said it was a punch he didn't see rather than new found power by Marquez. I mean how many people are genuinely like that? We all saw how Khan reacted the second it seemed that Peterson was on something.

I guess that's the power of being the 'good guy'. His two main rivals, Marquez and Mayweather to an extent, do they even command the same type of support?


This is a very good post. Mosley is a gracious loser even Marquez. And Manny is a manufactured good guy there have been many reports about his behavior outside the ring but people cover it up. I think Oscar De La Hoya had that support if not more than Pac. Manny could not mention PEDs because then that would open up a can of worms that he has been trying to avoid. And what excuse could he had made? He got reckless and he paid the price for it. Just like Hatton was reckless with Pac. What could Hatton say? He got caught. I think if he came out and said he had a substance abuse problem there would be some backlash but not a lot however he said that he was using PEDS he can kiss the presidency of the Filipino people goodbye!
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 8 2013, 12:24 PM) *
Dude you just stated that alcohol was involved in your post its whatever.

His fights at the lower level were great and even legitimate and i think I like that version of Pacquiao anyway. When he started moving up and the catch weights the BS 8 weight championships BS that is when he lost me. Then the steroids allegations it was too much plus the hype that was behind him buried my liking for him. There maybe another great Filipino boxer in the years to come, I do not see the Filipino Flab and Gesta as the next in line. People said that there will never be another Mayweather and we have Broner the closest thing. So chin up and dry your eyes the Island will rise again.

Fact of the matter is, dude was built to be a megastar, and that doesn't involve stiff competition on a consistent basis. The point of building a megastar in boxing, is to KEEP them a star for as long as possible.

Oscar was one of the few that fought just about everybody out there, win lose or draw. The difference between him and Manny is, Oscar was a star from jump. Remember when Manny was known as "The Destroyer"...who was checking for him back then? No many.

Hell, nobody even knew where his career was going around the time of the Barrera rematch. Hell, things didn't start to look on the uphill for him, until the second Marquez fight. Around that time, people's attention was hardly on the lightweight division, or anything below that.

With that in mind, getting to the top is hard...but staying there is even harder. If you're smart, you'd maximize the low/medium risk fights, and move forward in that Manny.

Please dont insult Mayweather by saying that Broner replaces him, sorry, but that's far from the truth. Difference is, we're talking about a guy from the U.S., very a needle in the haystack talent from a 3rd world country. And please cut the chummy stuff about "chinning up and drying my eyes", it aint that serious bro.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 8 2013, 10:25 AM) *
I don't think anyone in this era of boxing has the type of support he does, he could come out tomorrow and say he has a substance problem for example and the whole world not just his country would be behind him.

What I was happy about actually that when he lost to Marquez, in the post fight he didn't make any excuses, any bullshit, no mention of OSDT, no mention of Marquez's physique, he'll it was even him that said it was a punch he didn't see rather than new found power by Marquez. I mean how many people are genuinely like that? We all saw how Khan reacted the second it seemed that Peterson was on something.

I guess that's the power of being the 'good guy'. His two main rivals, Marquez and Mayweather to an extent, do they even command the same type of support?



very good point and solid post. i agree.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 8 2013, 10:54 AM) *
Fact of the matter is, dude was built to be a megastar, and that doesn't involve stiff competition on a consistent basis. The point of building a megastar in boxing, is to KEEP them a star for as long as possible.

Oscar was one of the few that fought just about everybody out there, win lose or draw. The difference between him and Manny is, Oscar was a star from jump. Remember when Manny was known as "The Destroyer"...who was checking for him back then? No many.

Hell, nobody even knew where his career was going around the time of the Barrera rematch. Hell, things didn't start to look on the uphill for him, until the second Marquez fight. Around that time, people's attention was hardly on the lightweight division, or anything below that.

With that in mind, getting to the top is hard...but staying there is even harder. If you're smart, you'd maximize the low/medium risk fights, and move forward in that Manny.

Please dont insult Mayweather by saying that Broner replaces him, sorry, but that's far from the truth. Difference is, we're talking about a guy from the U.S., very a needle in the haystack talent from a 3rd world country. And please cut the chummy stuff about "chinning up and drying my eyes", it aint that serious bro.


Is Broner not the closest boxing has to Mayweather? Si or No? For some reason that is what the boxing community has suggested bro, and you were the one who got testy with I. Maybe you know something that boxing pundits don't. DO I think Broner will surpass Mayweather heck no, Broner will take an L sooner rather than later. Broner gets hit way too much and his conditioning and ring IQ is not even close to Mayweather. Plus Broner relies far too heavy on his talent. Just like Pacquiao.
What made Manny a superstar was his size and the way he fought his competition. He is exciting and has that "good guy" role down to the max. I give that to him. But when he started getting exposed that is when the light got a little brighter and hotter at the same. Oscar as you mentioned fought everyone and his power was in his female fanbase. There were more women at his matches than men! But he gave the sport life and excitement. Pacquiao gave hope to a nation so they say. He is an exciting boxer that can and will be replaced. The moment they find another "humble" hard hitting Filipino he will be a star and you can hear the national anthem of the Philippines once again bro.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 8 2013, 02:33 PM) *
Is Broner not the closest boxing has to Mayweather? Si or No? For some reason that is what the boxing community has suggested bro, and you were the one who got testy with I. Maybe you know something that boxing pundits don't. DO I think Broner will surpass Mayweather heck no, Broner will take an L sooner rather than later. Broner gets hit way too much and his conditioning and ring IQ is not even close to Mayweather. Plus Broner relies far too heavy on his talent. Just like Pacquiao.
What made Manny a superstar was his size and the way he fought his competition. He is exciting and has that "good guy" role down to the max. I give that to him. But when he started getting exposed that is when the light got a little brighter and hotter at the same. Oscar as you mentioned fought everyone and his power was in his female fanbase. There were more women at his matches than men! But he gave the sport life and excitement. Pacquiao gave hope to a nation so they say. He is an exciting boxer that can and will be replaced. The moment they find another "humble" hard hitting Filipino he will be a star and you can hear the national anthem of the Philippines once again bro.

I agree that Broner fights like Mayweather, but will he ultimately replace him? That remains to be seen. Trust me, pundits are exactly whats killing the sport, and you would have to operationally define the "boxing community". If we actually went by what the boxing community suggested (strictly), then we'd be in a world of hurt.

The bold is what I've been saying the whole time, so we obviously agree somewhere in this whole thing. I'm almost inclined to say that Manny has become bigger than Oscar De La Hoya, and that's a daunting task in itself.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 8 2013, 02:40 PM) *
I agree that Broner fights like Mayweather, but will he ultimately replace him? That remains to be seen. Trust me, pundits are exactly whats killing the sport, and you would have to operationally define the "boxing community". If we actually went by what the boxing community suggested (strictly), then we'd be in a world of hurt.

The bold is what I've been saying the whole time, so we obviously agree somewhere in this whole thing. I'm almost inclined to say that Manny has become bigger than Oscar De La Hoya, and that's a daunting task in itself.


Cshel86 and this is what pisses me off about the whole Manny thing. Oscar fought everyone. He moved up in weight to fight Hopkins! He didn't drain him he moved up to fight him! That is why Oscar has my respect, he lost of course but still he went to challenge a champion and Manny has never done that. Either he drains them or puts stipulations on the weight clause. Manny's earlier fights with the aforementioned opponents were great, he showed heart and a willingness to take punishment and give it but as he grew in popularity his competition became suspect and no one because he was "Mr. Humble Nice Guy I fight for my People" questioned his opponents or how he made them fight. The moment this guy gets dropped all of the sudden PEDs are bad for boxing. Oscar earned his ranks Manny was given his,

I agree 100% that boxing pundits and "sports" writers are destroying boxing and sports as a whole. They pick their favorites and write warm cuddly feeling articles about their heroes and demonized the ones they hate. In return the clueless public goes along with their BS. Take HBO's nut sucking sperm swallowing of Pacquiao, they have to save face because they were responsible for hyping Manny up to be this unstoppable force. Now Marquez is a cheat and boxing needs harder testing.

Broner will lose at least 3 to 4 fights. Maybe by the end of the year or early 2014. He takes too many risks, he cares about looking good rather than boxing smart. That could be his downfall. I think he is a damn good salesman I do. I do not see the dedication in Broner to boxing that Mayweather has. Only time will tell bro so the only thing we can do is watch.
mgrover
while he did drain cotto, and margarito, who else was drained? It was de la hoyas, choice to come in at some stupidly low weight and not rehydrate, although there is the whole rehydration clause business but thats been discussed to death, while yes he drained these two he himself was easily so many weight classes below them was he not in natural body size, from what i remember he had to eat a ton at first just to keep that weight on
Cshel86
I hate it for Donaire though, seriously. He's failed to find his identity in the sport, and that's mostly due to his competition. Most of those guys in the lower weight classes nowadays, have failed to make a name for themselves, so it's harder for Donaire to do so.

He's not blessed with the Barreras, Moraleses (hope I spelled that right), or the Marquezes of the world. Gary Russell Jr. and few other guys in the smaller weight classes are pretty much in the same boat, in regards to not having competition.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 8 2013, 05:44 PM) *
Cshel86 and this is what pisses me off about the whole Manny thing. Oscar fought everyone. He moved up in weight to fight Hopkins! He didn't drain him he moved up to fight him! That is why Oscar has my respect, he lost of course but still he went to challenge a champion and Manny has never done that. Either he drains them or puts stipulations on the weight clause. Manny's earlier fights with the aforementioned opponents were great, he showed heart and a willingness to take punishment and give it but as he grew in popularity his competition became suspect and no one because he was "Mr. Humble Nice Guy I fight for my People" questioned his opponents or how he made them fight. The moment this guy gets dropped all of the sudden PEDs are bad for boxing. Oscar earned his ranks Manny was given his,

I agree 100% that boxing pundits and "sports" writers are destroying boxing and sports as a whole. They pick their favorites and write warm cuddly feeling articles about their heroes and demonized the ones they hate. In return the clueless public goes along with their BS. Take HBO's nut sucking sperm swallowing of Pacquiao, they have to save face because they were responsible for hyping Manny up to be this unstoppable force. Now Marquez is a cheat and boxing needs harder testing.

Broner will lose at least 3 to 4 fights. Maybe by the end of the year or early 2014. He takes too many risks, he cares about looking good rather than boxing smart. That could be his downfall. I think he is a damn good salesman I do. I do not see the dedication in Broner to boxing that Mayweather has. Only time will tell bro so the only thing we can do is watch.


he made bhop drop. he was 156 for that fight.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 8 2013, 06:03 PM) *
while he did drain cotto, and margarito, who else was drained? It was de la hoyas, choice to come in at some stupidly low weight and not rehydrate, although there is the whole rehydration clause business but thats been discussed to death, while yes he drained these two he himself was easily so many weight classes below them was he not in natural body size, from what i remember he had to eat a ton at first just to keep that weight on


hatton was only allowed to gain 5lbs after the initial weigh in.

clottey has made some statements regarding his weight that made the whole thing suspect which is why i believe he's been shelved.

the myth about him having to eat a ton to keep the weight on was dismissed by a video that showed his actual weight when he stepped into the ring against morales and a few others.


neophyte7
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 9 2013, 03:39 PM) *
he made bhop drop. he was 156 for that fight.




The fight was contracted at at 158.. Hopkins came in at 156 to prove a point .. after the 4th round Hopkins looked to be much faster than DLH.. Hopkins physical upkeep as a fighter is legendary in and of itself
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 9 2013, 09:07 AM) *
I hate it for Donaire though, seriously. He's failed to find his identity in the sport, and that's mostly due to his competition. Most of those guys in the lower weight classes nowadays, have failed to make a name for themselves, so it's harder for Donaire to do so.

He's not blessed with the Barreras, Moraleses (hope I spelled that right), or the Marquezes of the world. Gary Russell Jr. and few other guys in the smaller weight classes are pretty much in the same boat, in regards to not having competition.


he has plenty.

rigondeaux, mares, agbeko, moreno, russell, rojas (kid that got in arces ass) and a few others.

Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 9 2013, 03:49 PM) *
he has plenty.

rigondeaux, mares, agbeko, moreno, russell, rojas (kid that got in arces ass) and a few others.

The sad thing about the fights you listed is, Donaire would actually have to have a knockdown-dragout with these guys, to even get noticed. It would probably have to be a JMM/Pac 1 or a Gatti/Ward-type fight, for people to even look his way.

Rigondeaux is still unknown, and I feel that Donaire beats him badly (after watching the Marroquin fight), Mares may give him a run, it depends on which Agbeko shows up, Russell will have trouble with Donaire's athleticism and size (I believe), and Rojas may give him arun...but his aggression may play against him.

Maybe I'm reaching here, but who knows. I hope I'm wrong though. As much as I don't like Donaire, I would like to see ALL fighters reach their max potential.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 9 2013, 08:43 PM) *
hatton was only allowed to gain 5lbs after the initial weigh in.

clottey has made some statements regarding his weight that made the whole thing suspect which is why i believe he's been shelved.

the myth about him having to eat a ton to keep the weight on was dismissed by a video that showed his actual weight when he stepped into the ring against morales and a few others.


so he was a big guy who drained?
daprofessor
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Jan 9 2013, 03:46 PM) *
The fight was contracted at at 158.. Hopkins came in at 156 to prove a point .. after the 4th round Hopkins looked to be much faster than DLH.. Hopkins physical upkeep as a fighter is legendary in and of itself


right. point being....dlh tried to play the weight game. he's benefited from it most of his career. some of his biggest wins came against guys who were physically much smaller than him but were past their primes fighting at higher weights.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 9 2013, 04:45 PM) *
The sad thing about the fights you listed is, Donaire would actually have to have a knockdown-dragout with these guys, to even get noticed. It would probably have to be a JMM/Pac 1 or a Gatti/Ward-type fight, for people to even look his way.

Rigondeaux is still unknown, and I feel that Donaire beats him badly (after watching the Marroquin fight), Mares may give him a run, it depends on which Agbeko shows up, Russell will have trouble with Donaire's athleticism and size (I believe), and Rojas may give him arun...but his aggression may play against him.

Maybe I'm reaching here, but who knows. I hope I'm wrong though. As much as I don't like Donaire, I would like to see ALL fighters reach their max potential.



u don't have to be popular to make an all time great fight. how popular were corrales/castillo to average fans when they fought? how about vasquez/marquez? i can go down a long list of great historical fights that fit this bill.

i'm not convinced donaire beats any of the guys i mentioned. i see rigondeaux and moreno giving him the hardest times. i wouldn't be shocked if agbeko beats him either. russell is the type of guy who could blow donaire out the water. he's at the weight class above...so i don't believe size will be an issue...plus he's blazing fast and throws much more technically sound punches than donaire. russell is a haymon fighter so we can pretty much rule out arum ever allowing donaire and russell in the same ring.

donaire has the opposition to achieve greatness. his ko wins over an undefeated darchinyan and a very highly skilled montiel are the type of wins that put him on his way and even got him into super stardom and the p4p conversation to begin with.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 9 2013, 05:31 PM) *
so he was a big guy who drained?


i think the last fight he had trouble making weight for was the last morales fight. there's a video floating around on youtube that shows the day of weights for several of his fights and he has weighed in the mid 140's for quite some time. so to answer your question...in the beginning..no. but with natural growth and progression...yes.
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 9 2013, 12:39 PM) *
he made bhop drop. he was 156 for that fight.


It was a 157 weight at catchweight correct? Either way he still moved up to fight him. That still gets my respect and Bernard didn't have to kill himself doing it. I thought he looked good in the fight. Thanks for the correction.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 9 2013, 09:40 PM) *
It was a 157 weight at catchweight correct? Either way he still moved up to fight him. That still gets my respect and Bernard didn't have to kill himself doing it. I thought he looked good in the fight. Thanks for the correction.

Manny did the same thing, so whats your point? Manny's opponents never complained about the catchweights either, they were just happy to get a big payday. Later on, they may have complained, but at the moment, no one uttered a word about it.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 9 2013, 08:00 PM) *
Manny did the same thing, so whats your point? Manny's opponents never complained about the catchweights either, they were just happy to get a big payday. Later on, they may have complained, but at the moment, no one uttered a word about it.


That was my point. Oscar may had Hopkins come down but he went up and I do not think Hopkins was drained or coming off a loss when he faced Oscar. Manny on the other hand could rehydrate and eat as much as he wants while his other opponents had to keep specified weight. The reason why they didn't complain is because they wanted that paycheck and they also wasn't about to make Arum look like an ass. Just look what happen to Bradley and Clottely after they spoke out. Hell even Miguel didn't want to fight Manny again because of the weight clause. You can't tout yourself as being a 154 champion if you never fought at 154. Saul Alvarez is losing credibility because he has yet to fight someone at his weight class and their are plenty to pick from.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 10 2013, 09:30 AM) *
That was my point. Oscar my had Hopkins come down but he went off and I do not think Hopkins was drained or coming off a loss when he faced Oscar. Manny on the other hand could rehydrate and eat as much as he wants while his other opponents had to keep specified weight. The reason why they didn't complain is because they wanted that paycheck and they also wasn't about to make Arum look like an ass. Just look what happen to Bradley and Clottely after they spoke out. Hell even Miguel didn't want to fight Manny again because of the weight clause. You can't tout yourself as being a 154 champion if you never fought at 154. Saul Alvarez is losing credibility because he has yet fought someone at his weight class and their are plenty to pick from.

I think its the other way around, nobody wanted Bob to make an ass of them...hence why nobody uttered a peep about Manny. They cried about how Manny was too small, but he was a WW when he fought Marquez the second time, as well as the Diaz fight.

Clottey spoke out and got shelved, and I believe he fought Calvin Green in Nov. 2011, but that's it. Bradley on the other hand, just started to think that he was bigger than what he was, just because he landed the fight Pac fight, which was by default. Just because you land a big fight with a cash cow, that doesn't automatically make you a star with negotiation rights....ask Mosley about that.

Alvarez can do what he wants to do at this point, sadly. He's becoming bigger and bigger (thanks to GBP), so if his opponent selection is like this now, then imagine how bad it will be, if he happens to a cash cow one. Brace yourselves no2.gif
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 10 2013, 08:16 AM) *
I think its the other way around, nobody wanted Bob to make an ass of them...hence why nobody uttered a peep about Manny. They cried about how Manny was too small, but he was a WW when he fought Marquez the second time, as well as the Diaz fight.

Clottey spoke out and got shelved, and I believe he fought Calvin Green in Nov. 2011, but that's it. Bradley on the other hand, just started to think that he was bigger than what he was, just because he landed the fight Pac fight, which was by default. Just because you land a big fight with a cash cow, that doesn't automatically make you a star with negotiation rights....ask Mosley about that.

Alvarez can do what he wants to do at this point, sadly. He's becoming bigger and bigger (thanks to GBP), so if his opponent selection is like this now, then imagine how bad it will be, if he happens to a cash cow one. Brace yourselves no2.gif


Sorry about all the typos in my last post, I was in a bit of a rush. I would say Bradley thought by "beating" Pac he felt he would be the top dog in the game (ha!) and that was his mistake he also screwed up when he turned down a fight with Peterson which was a big NO NO! Clottely is a travesty. He did exactly what he was told to do and he still got bent over.

Cshel86 here is the thing about Saul, if he faces top competition he is going to get beat. I don't know how well his conditioning is plus let's face it, he hasn't been challenged. what will happens when he faces a guy in the SAME weight class and just as much pop that he has and skill? What will happen? I honestly wish he fights either Trout ( who is his mandatory correct) or even Peter Quillen who has hand speed and power he does seem to tire in the late rounds but I still like his chances. Now if the red head gets his dream match up with Mayweather and he loses what will happen to him? Will his stock drop or will he say "hey I lost to the best." We shall see.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.