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Jack 1000
I will say,

I would like to see some sort of centralized boxing authority that has the ability to over-power the sanctioning bodies when they do something that is terribly unjust or wrong. Sort of like how the Association of Boxing Commission Rules in the United States and Canada superseded, or at least are supposed to supersede alphabet federation rules. But they don't go far enough. Texas for instance has violated ABC rules by experimenting with the WBC 4th and 8th round Open Scoring system in WBC fights. This is a violation of Unified Rules.

Arkansans tried the WBC Open Scoring Rule in the Taylor-Ouma fight, but it was considered to be experimental at the time. The ABC knew this and overwhelmingly Open Scoring was rejected by almost all US Commissions and the British Boxing Board of Control. It is the ABC that kept Open Scoring thankfully out of the United States and Canada.

However, the model of a centralized boxing commission does not go far enough. And its not just the stopping of any form of Open Scoring, which has, for the most part, been a dismal failure. Why Japan likes it so much, I'll never know. If a centralized and legal authority can overturn alphabet federation protocols that are deplorable, this system should be put in place.

On the other hand, if reasonable and just decisions are made by the sanctioning bodies for the interest of the fighters, this needs to be addressed as well. Not everything an alphabet group does is corrupt. The alphabet federations are much more respected outside of the United States than within. The WBC's insurance and pension program for fighters is a good thing. The "WBC Caress" work with children's hospitals and efforts toward helping kids and fighters with terminal illness is a great thing. I can also say that the WBC out of all of the sanctioning bodies, is the most receptive to communication and feedback. They are always very helpful and willing to answer any questions or feedback that I submit to them.

The WBA is OK for feedback, but they don't respond as in-depth as the WBC does. The WBO is also pretty good for feedback. Years ago, I had a major beef with Bob Lee and the IBF when I bashed Eugenia Williams scoring in the Holyfield-Lewis I fight and recieved quite an angry response where Mr. Lee defended her right down the line. However, we know of the controversy and scandel of Bob Lee's past. Their past president Hiwatha Knight is good, and Joe Dwyer out of New York who is an IBF rep is good as well. Daryl People's the current president I heard is good and reasonable.

If all of these organizations were total shit, than I don't think respected boxing people would go to the conventions as much as they do. Also to be taken into account, has to be that no one has been able to impliment a system for boxing for the past 50 years, that completely eliminates the alphabet federations from the system. If you go with the Teddy Atlas concept of a single national commission some questions need to be addressed:

1.) Under Teddy's Atlas' national commission proposal-who would run such a system? Who would oversee a system of checks and balances to oversee fairness and justice in the system, to prevent another boxing monopoly from taking place? Teddy never talks in detail about such a proposal as to who would run the commission.

2.) I agree that there are far too many belts. WBA Super Champion, an idea proposed by Lennox Lewis to prevent multiple title holders from having to do too many defenses too close together. There should be no Super Champion period. Just call the match a 12-round World Title Elimination Match.

3.) The WBC Diamond Belt-Has no sanctioning fees associated with it and is commemorative only. But it doesn't need to be. This belt goes to the winner of two special fighters who achieved strong boxing status through the years and fight outside their weight class in a bog match. But much like the WBA Superchampion there should not be any belt for title eliminationss.

Eliminate Champion in Recess or as the WBC calls it, champion in recess belts. IF THERE IS NO WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP ON THE LINE, THERE IS NO BELT GIVEN TO THE WINNER OF THE FIGHT. PERIOD.

4.) What all powers that be in boxing SHOULD be promoting is the elimination of TV and promotional monopolies with ANY FIGHTER! This is the type of bullshit that is just as bad as the sanctioning bodies when they do something bad.

BOXING NEEDS TO GO BACK TO THE DAYS OF WHEN THE NETWORK JUST SHOWED THE FIGHTS LIKE IN THE 50'S-70'S. THERE ARE NO TIE-INS TO ANY PROMOTER OR MATCHMAKER. YOU FIGHT FOR THE BEST DEAL THAT SHOWTIME OR HBO CAN GIVE YOU ON A FIGHT TO FIGHT BASIS, OR EVEN FREE OR STANDARD CABLE TV.

5.) Boxing should have a free open market where neither HBO or Showtime are contractually obligated to any fighter or promoter. You would see better fights that way and less politics in getting the best matches made. You go with the best deals for the best fights, no long-term promoter contract monopolist tie-ins. Showtime sort of understands this. HBO doesn't get it. Lamply wouldn't know who to pom-pom if this system went into effect.

6.) Round Robin Elimination tournaments with proposal #5 in effect. Lets see how the best champions of the world federations match up to each other to produce a single unified champion. Get the Association of Boxing Commissions support of this tournament. When the undisputed champion retires or is beaten, the Round Robin elimination tournament begins again. Currently, there are too many fighters who can win a world alphabet belt, without any incentive to unify.

Jack
daprofessor
there needs to be some over sight on the judges. too many times boxing has controversial decisions that rarely get attention and the same shit judges get re-shuffled into the deck only to resurface later to deliver on their same bullshit. they need to be held accountable...or at least graded...and make it a point to only use the highly rated judges for the big fights. the same needs to be done with the shit referees out there too.

i'm all for a single champion in each division. no more of this bullshit interim this or that or champion emeritus...keep the sanctioning bodies...but do NOT call someone a unified champion or undisputed if he doesn't hold the four major belts. every belt holder should be held to a minimum of 3 defenses per year. 1 freebee, 1 mandatory and 1 to unify. if a guy has to piece of the puzzle then he can be held to a minimum of 2 defenses. 1 to unify and 1 freebee. if he has 3 belts...he can have a minimum of 1 defense and that would be for unification with whomever holds the 4th belt. they can all do as many optional defenses as they want.

no more bullshit where promoters are holding up a division trying to protect their guy sitting on a title or a number one spot. either piss or get off the pot.

commentators/journalists. these guys do more damage to the sport trying to chase a story than anything. i won't act like corruption doesn't exist or it isn't a problem...but too many times these guys blow shit out of proportion and cast the sport in a negative light.
daprofessor
on a side note....aiba is seeking to be the world's governing body in professional boxing. they control amateur/olympic boxing.
Jovi
Boxing should be on more than once a week, sometimes more than once a day. Have the scheduling like NBA.

It could be certain weight classes on certain days or something.

But i hate sometimes waiting weeks or months to watch a fight.

Fighters should be required to fight more than a certain amount of times a year.

Just make the sport organized.
Jack 1000
Ways to Clean Up Boxing

(I provided a condensed version of my OP for easier reference:)

1.) A centralized non government entity similar to the Association of Boxing Commissions to
oversee boxing ratings and world champions expanded throughout the United States with options
for greater word expansion to other boxing jurisdictions around the world.

2.) The power of this agency to only acknowledge world championship belts between the active
champion and the designated challenger. Under this system all “Silver”, “Diamond”, “Super”
champion belts are eliminated, or would not be recognized by this centralized non-government
agency.

3.) Most World Title belts and bouts would be fought at 12 rounds.(exception proposal #4)

4.) Unified World Championship Fights with a minimum of three of the four alphabet belts on
the line would be fought at 15 rounds. At least three of the four belts recognized as world title
fights by the WBA, WBC, IBF, and or WBO would have to be represented for the 15 round
superfight to take place. To insure safety and quality of officiating at this level, only the most
experience refs and judges would work the 15 round superfight.

5.) A Centralized non-government authority to eliminate promotional monopolies AND TV
Network Monopolies in boxing. Fighters should work with matchmakers on a fight by fight
basis. NO LONG TERM CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS!

6.) Round Robin elimination tournaments between the top contenders and champions of the four
major sanctioning bodies to see who is the best of the championship federations. Commissions
under a centralized boxing authority would make the fights happen in a free-market relationship
between the fighters, networks, matchmakers, and promoters. This system should prevail,
whether the alphabet federations would choose to participate would be optional.

7.) Go back to the days of the 1950's-1970's when the networks just showed the fights, without
the political or promotional monopolies of having a fighter tied to a specific network.

8.) The elimination of any type of Open Scoring System. As shown, its success rate has been
mediocre to dismal at best. Most importantly, Open Scoring does not solve the issues associated
with bad judging. It simply produces loss of suspense, security concerns, judges potentially
being forced into “group think” if their colleges scores do not reflect what they see. Too many
track meets with Open Scoring when a fighter knows he’s ahead. Too many opt outs for a losing
fighter to quit if he knows’ he is behind.

9.) All judges should be subjected to a review hearing if the Centralized Committee deems it
necessary for them to explain any decisions that are in extreme opposing views to what the public
saw. Assents and income of all judges should be subject to review before and after fights.
Officials may be called to explain and review their scores in an extremely controversial decision.

Officials have the right to a fair hearing and to submit evidence to support their positions. The
executive committee will fine, suspend, or revoke ANY official for a time period set by them if
evidence of corruption or blatant favoritism is found.

10. The centralized boxing authority should propose to work with more commercial TV networks
to make boxing appealing and exciting again for current and future generations of viewers.
Current generations of boxing writers, fans, and organizers, need to work together to make the
fight game fun and enjoyable again.


Jack
daprofessor
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jan 11 2013, 04:09 PM) *
Ways to Clean Up Boxing

(I provided a condensed version of my OP for easier reference:)

1.) A centralized non government entity similar to the Association of Boxing Commissions to
oversee boxing ratings and world champions expanded throughout the United States with options
for greater word expansion to other boxing jurisdictions around the world.

2.) The power of this agency to only acknowledge world championship belts between the active
champion and the designated challenger. Under this system all “Silver”, “Diamond”, “Super”
champion belts are eliminated, or would not be recognized by this centralized non-government
agency.

3.) Most World Title belts and bouts would be fought at 12 rounds.(exception proposal #4)

4.) Unified World Championship Fights with a minimum of three of the four alphabet belts on
the line would be fought at 15 rounds. At least three of the four belts recognized as world title
fights by the WBA, WBC, IBF, and or WBO would have to be represented for the 15 round
superfight to take place. To insure safety and quality of officiating at this level, only the most
experience refs and judges would work the 15 round superfight.

5.) A Centralized non-government authority to eliminate promotional monopolies AND TV
Network Monopolies in boxing. Fighters should work with matchmakers on a fight by fight
basis. NO LONG TERM CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS!

6.) Round Robin elimination tournaments between the top contenders and champions of the four
major sanctioning bodies to see who is the best of the championship federations. Commissions
under a centralized boxing authority would make the fights happen in a free-market relationship
between the fighters, networks, matchmakers, and promoters. This system should prevail,
whether the alphabet federations would choose to participate would be optional.

7.) Go back to the days of the 1950's-1970's when the networks just showed the fights, without
the political or promotional monopolies of having a fighter tied to a specific network.

8.) The elimination of any type of Open Scoring System. As shown, its success rate has been
mediocre to dismal at best. Most importantly, Open Scoring does not solve the issues associated
with bad judging. It simply produces loss of suspense, security concerns, judges potentially
being forced into “group think” if their colleges scores do not reflect what they see. Too many
track meets with Open Scoring when a fighter knows he’s ahead. Too many opt outs for a losing
fighter to quit if he knows’ he is behind.

9.) All judges should be subjected to a review hearing if the Centralized Committee deems it
necessary for them to explain any decisions that are in extreme opposing views to what the public
saw. Assents and income of all judges should be subject to review before and after fights.
Officials may be called to explain and review their scores in an extremely controversial decision.

Officials have the right to a fair hearing and to submit evidence to support their positions. The
executive committee will fine, suspend, or revoke ANY official for a time period set by them if
evidence of corruption or blatant favoritism is found.

10. The centralized boxing authority should propose to work with more commercial TV networks
to make boxing appealing and exciting again for current and future generations of viewers.
Current generations of boxing writers, fans, and organizers, need to work together to make the
fight game fun and enjoyable again.


Jack


great list!!!
mgrover
shooting bob arum is a start
daprofessor
this oughta do the trick. smile.gif

Dolimite
UNION. Boxing needs a serious union. The union should be made up of former fighters and refs. Every professional sport has a union and boxing is in badly need of one.
Southeastpaw
As I have stated before, I really like your list Jack. Though, I feel one of the main problems, if not, the main problem are the multiple governing bodies.

Hear me out... The Fertittas are huge boxing fans, and Lorenzo was actually part of the Nevada State Athletic Commission. He wanted to get more involved with boxing. But the more he delved into the workings of the sport, the more he realized (in his words) that the issues that plagued the sport were irreversible. So they ended up buying the UFC on a request from Dana White.

Even though most will not recognize this, it is because of boxing that the UFC is as successful as it is. Dana and the Fertittas recognized what had put boxing in it's current state and knew what to do and what to avoid. Strikeforce was coming up. They bought them out, let the contract run out with Showtime, and now it is gone. The only other legitimate competition the UFC has (if you even want to call it that) is Belator.

The UFC has a great business model and contrary to popular belief, they pay their fighters well...including incentives. The top guys get paid more than what is recorded for all to see. And the up and comers on the undercards get paid much more than the newbies on ESPN for example. With the lack of competitive organizations, they pretty much monopolize the industry and get every and all the fighters they want, for the most part. And the fights that need to happen happen.

I am not saying this to bash boxing. And I don't believe...well, I would like to believe that the issues in boxing that damage the sport are reversible. Boxing is my first love and I really appreciate when people put out ideas to help improve the sport, like you have Jack. But as long as we have multiple organizations, the issues will continue.

Franchize
I think without a governing body and boxer's union that is independent and non-bias, all other suggestions can be nullified. The snake promoters will find a way around em.
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jan 11 2013, 06:47 PM) *
shooting bob arum is a start

Case closed cool.gif

PS: I hope nobody' reading this shit. laugh.gif
daprofessor
i think the whole comparison to ufc/mma needs to stop.

i think boxing stands alone and should stop letting mma ride on its coat tails.

Southeastpaw
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 16 2013, 01:38 PM) *
i think the whole comparison to ufc/mma needs to stop.

i think boxing stands alone and should stop letting mma ride on its coat tails.

My intention is not to offend anyone. But it is a business model that works, which was started by guys who love boxing. I don't see an issue. There are quite a few boxers who see this, Roy Jones being one of them.
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 16 2013, 12:38 PM) *
i think the whole comparison to ufc/mma needs to stop.

i think boxing stands alone and should stop letting mma ride on its coat tails.


I agree. I love boxing, but I like mma. But Dana White and the UFC have made a killing off the backs of boxing. They constantly threw PPV's during boxing events or boxing PPV's until Mayweather crushed them, but they've always made a point to bash boxing.

If the product is so great then you don't need to bash the competitor to build yours up. I admit there are some things that the UFC does that is admirable and can be incorporated into boxing but for overall business boxing is better. UFC has a monopoly on MMA, they want people to think UFC when they think MMA. WEC was on the way up, what happened? UFC bought them and absorbed them, Strikeforce was coming up but Dana said he couldn't envision those fighters in the UFC or women's MMA, what happened? He bought Strikeforce and absorbed them

Now he's touting Rhousey as the face of women's MMa like he knew it all the time when barely a year ago he ain't want nothing to do with her or women's MMA. When they feel the pressure they just throw money at the situation to stop the bleeding. That's not always going to work and their actual numbers aren't as strong as they once were

And they do NOT get paid like boxers do. There are documentaries where fighters speak on it, articles, etc detailing how there's is disparity in the pay across the sports. Look at the Rampage interview that yahoo put up yesterday, he's not even getting paid what he's worth and he's a star. They won't let him use his reebok sponsor over some licensing bs but Jon Jones can use his Nike sponsor. Those MMA fighters need that sponsorship money. Bellator is the only comp out there for UFC and I prefer them to the UFC. But as a whole MMA, particularly UFC is just a messed up as boxing
Southeastpaw
Please don't get me wrong. I love boxing. It is my top love. But I get extremely aggrivated when the fights that need to happen do not happen. That is not an issue in the UFC. Some look at the UFC monopolizing the sport a bad thing. I don't see how. Too many organizations mean the best fighters of different organizations won't fight eachother.

Pay... The elite fighters in boxing do get paid more than the elite in MMA. However, how many is that. There is Manny and Floyd. Trust me, Anderson Silva is banking. They also get undisclosed amounts. There are fight of the night, sub of the night, and KO of the night bonuses as well. Also, a newcomer to the UFC who is on a facebook prelim is guaranteed to make more than a somewhat established fighter fighting on ESPN. The UFC speads the money out. Everyone gets some. There is an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta where he explains it in depth. It will open eyes.

If you prefer Belator to the UFC, then you don't exactly care about seeing elite fighters face eachother. I admit, I do like their tournament platform, but it undeniably takes a backseat to the UFC.

The UFC is in it's golden era at the moment. Once competing organizations start to rise and become successful, that is when the sport will start to faulter.

Manny and Floyd should have faced a couple years ago. That fight not happening is one of the biggest crimes in all of sports. If boxing had a model similar to the UFC, that fight would have been done and over with years ago. But fighters have their say on who they want to fight and for how much.

Showtime has already taken some pages out of the Zuffa book. They are putting prelims on Show Extreme and I have even seen some fight bonuses. I am not trying to get all UFC vs boxing. I am saying, try a model that works.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jan 17 2013, 03:28 AM) *
I agree. I love boxing, but I like mma. But Dana White and the UFC have made a killing off the backs of boxing. They constantly threw PPV's during boxing events or boxing PPV's until Mayweather crushed them, but they've always made a point to bash boxing.

If the product is so great then you don't need to bash the competitor to build yours up. I admit there are some things that the UFC does that is admirable and can be incorporated into boxing but for overall business boxing is better. UFC has a monopoly on MMA, they want people to think UFC when they think MMA. WEC was on the way up, what happened? UFC bought them and absorbed them, Strikeforce was coming up but Dana said he couldn't envision those fighters in the UFC or women's MMA, what happened? He bought Strikeforce and absorbed them

Now he's touting Rhousey as the face of women's MMa like he knew it all the time when barely a year ago he ain't want nothing to do with her or women's MMA. When they feel the pressure they just throw money at the situation to stop the bleeding. That's not always going to work and their actual numbers aren't as strong as they once were

And they do NOT get paid like boxers do. There are documentaries where fighters speak on it, articles, etc detailing how there's is disparity in the pay across the sports. Look at the Rampage interview that yahoo put up yesterday, he's not even getting paid what he's worth and he's a star. They won't let him use his reebok sponsor over some licensing bs but Jon Jones can use his Nike sponsor. Those MMA fighters need that sponsorship money. Bellator is the only comp out there for UFC and I prefer them to the UFC. But as a whole MMA, particularly UFC is just a messed up as boxing


this.

plus i will add....monopolies are never good for business. under the ufc's model, the life span of a boxers career would be reduced significantly. in addition to that, the pay drops across the board and the only ones that really make a killing is the ufc.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Southeastpaw @ Jan 17 2013, 09:10 AM) *
Please don't get me wrong. I love boxing. It is my top love. But I get extremely aggrivated when the fights that need to happen do not happen. That is not an issue in the UFC. Some look at the UFC monopolizing the sport a bad thing. I don't see how. Too many organizations mean the best fighters of different organizations won't fight eachother.

Pay... The elite fighters in boxing do get paid more than the elite in MMA. However, how many is that. There is Manny and Floyd. Trust me, Anderson Silva is banking. They also get undisclosed amounts. There are fight of the night, sub of the night, and KO of the night bonuses as well. Also, a newcomer to the UFC who is on a facebook prelim is guaranteed to make more than a somewhat established fighter fighting on ESPN. The UFC speads the money out. Everyone gets some. There is an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta where he explains it in depth. It will open eyes.

If you prefer Belator to the UFC, then you don't exactly care about seeing elite fighters face eachother. I admit, I do like their tournament platform, but it undeniably takes a backseat to the UFC.

The UFC is in it's golden era at the moment. Once competing organizations start to rise and become successful, that is when the sport will start to faulter.

Manny and Floyd should have faced a couple years ago. That fight not happening is one of the biggest crimes in all of sports. If boxing had a model similar to the UFC, that fight would have been done and over with years ago. But fighters have their say on who they want to fight and for how much.

Showtime has already taken some pages out of the Zuffa book. They are putting prelims on Show Extreme and I have even seen some fight bonuses. I am not trying to get all UFC vs boxing. I am saying, try a model that works.


i hear that argument and i do NOT agree with it at all.

u can point to mayweather/pac as the ultimate example...but boxing pits the best against the best more often than not. also...when u understand what it takes to build a fighter into a legitimate attraction, it becomes more business/entertainment than sport. each move has to be carefully calculated to get a return on the investment. when the 'best' fight the 'best' in mma...these guys typically have very few fights and years into the sport in comparison to their boxing counterparts....so there is waaaay more at stake in boxing. in mma...fighters are disposable. in boxing...not so much.

the bonuses that they are giving are what boxing used to do...they never stopped doing it in the amateurs. typically...they give trophies to fighter of the night, bout of the night...etc..etc... so what the ufc is doing is nothing new. what they have done is simply packaged a new sport and have been learning from the mistakes of boxing. will mma be as big as boxing world wide? that remains to be seen. at one point, only americans were playing baseball and basketball...now, it's a world wide thing. ufc, being the small organized company it is...is growing and realizing that they have to kill or eat up their competition before it has a chance to grow. fertitta came into this with money to burn and has made some great things happen for his organization. it's a different/new sport...and has absolutely nothing to do with boxing. they've made their name off of shitting on boxing for years. most websites have helped them grow by covering their sport and letting them piggy back off of boxing simply because they are a combat sport. i watched very early on...and have tried to be a fan. it just doesn't appeal to me. fertitta himself views boxing as the enemy because he feels they are targeting the same demographic. i guess that's why it's always been the companies position to shit on boxing verbally. in the end, i believe both sports will co-exist. do i believe boxing can learn from mma? they can re-learn some of what they used to do when it was a smaller sport....but there are far too many participants/promoters/sanctioning bodies world wide that are very established to tear boxing down and start all over. if mma is going to have competition...i don't believe it will come from the u.s. competition is what spurs innovation. anyone remember the race to the moon? without any real competition on the horizon, i can see the ufc fizzling over the years. i don't anyone that gets excited to see two grown men roll on a mat trying to choke each other out. oranges and apples.
mrchitown
A monopoly is not good for any industry that's just plain foolish. The radio act of 1927 is a perfect example. You had few business men running ALL the radio stations, and when you have a monopoly in any industry then those individuals can control the message, right or wrong that 1 group controls it all. That is not fair and essentially it is unethical.

The UFC is already starting to falter, their PPV #'s ain't what they used to be and let's be real... Jon Jones is the face of the UFC and he's essentially calling the shots as evidenced by him declining to fight Sonnen on short notice. Tell me what Sonnen did to earn a crack at Bones? He was dismantled months earlier by Silva. And now Dana is trying to make Cormier fight against Bones. He ain't earned that. Are these the matchups the sport needs. The UFC is full of shit just like boxing,most are just to naive to see it

And if you prefer a monopoly then that's like preferring slave wages because its been many articles written about pay out differences between boxing and MMA, and the report found that boxing cards have a payout ratio of 70/30 for the fighters as compared to the UFC whose avg s 20%. I don't get how they can pay their fighters so much as some claim but Rampage has went on record numerous times to say how poorly the UFC treats and pay its fighters particularly him. He's a top dog their getting slave wages but they pay their fighters better then boxing? FOH, that's a lie. When it comes to pay the UFC is behind and I'd argue that they treat their fighters worse then any boxing promo company, even Arum
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Southeastpaw @ Jan 17 2013, 07:10 AM) *
Please don't get me wrong. I love boxing. It is my top love. But I get extremely aggrivated when the fights that need to happen do not happen. That is not an issue in the UFC. Some look at the UFC monopolizing the sport a bad thing. I don't see how. Too many organizations mean the best fighters of different organizations won't fight eachother.

Pay... The elite fighters in boxing do get paid more than the elite in MMA. However, how many is that. There is Manny and Floyd. Trust me, Anderson Silva is banking. They also get undisclosed amounts. There are fight of the night, sub of the night, and KO of the night bonuses as well. Also, a newcomer to the UFC who is on a facebook prelim is guaranteed to make more than a somewhat established fighter fighting on ESPN. The UFC speads the money out. Everyone gets some. There is an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta where he explains it in depth. It will open eyes.

If you prefer Belator to the UFC, then you don't exactly care about seeing elite fighters face eachother. I admit, I do like their tournament platform, but it undeniably takes a backseat to the UFC.

The UFC is in it's golden era at the moment. Once competing organizations start to rise and become successful, that is when the sport will start to faulter.

Manny and Floyd should have faced a couple years ago. That fight not happening is one of the biggest crimes in all of sports. If boxing had a model similar to the UFC, that fight would have been done and over with years ago. But fighters have their say on who they want to fight and for how much.

Showtime has already taken some pages out of the Zuffa book. They are putting prelims on Show Extreme and I have even seen some fight bonuses. I am not trying to get all UFC vs boxing. I am saying, try a model that works.


Great points!!!!

Jack
mrchitown
QUOTE


Now this article was just barely over a yr ago. What's changed since then? Nothing at all

QUOTE


One of their best fighters sums the UFC up nicely here

I'm not trying to bash the UFC but to say their model is working better is debatable. When you go down fight cards for both boxing averages out better. You can afford to pay fighters 10k when after its all said and done GSP and Silva are getting 4-5 mil per fight. Miguel Cotto is the 3rd highest draw in boxing as far as PPV and he gets more then these two and their top dog in the UFC. Both sports have their flaws, the UFC just keeps theirs a secret
Southeastpaw
Boxing would keep their's a secret if the could.

When you get a chance, watch this video. It is an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta on the UFC business model and pay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...p;v=ck0Lb8pDmVg
daprofessor
QUOTE (Southeastpaw @ Jan 17 2013, 05:21 PM) *
Boxing would keep their's a secret if the could.

When you get a chance, watch this video. It is an interview with Lorenzo Fertitta on the UFC business model and pay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...p;v=ck0Lb8pDmVg


fertitta is keeping his secret. he says they don't have to report the bonuses to the commission...they just have to report the contracted pay. no doubt, the ufc has done something special. it's a small organization in comparison to boxing and the smaller ship is easier to steer. i didn't watch the whole video but one thing is clear....this guy is a salesman. almost talks as good as a lawyer. i wouldn't expect him to bad mouth his own business....and of course he's going to make it sound bigger than it really is, that's what he's supposed to do.

aiba is attempting to do for boxing what the ufc has done mma. it basically comes down to capitalism(the current way) vs socialism(ufc/aiba way) the way i see. both have their advantages and disadvantages.

if you haven't had a chance to check it out...visit their website.
Cheesey1
I don't pay attention to MMA and wasn't going to comment except that I like the idea of there being a base pay for athletes.
As mentioned already in this thread, a union and central authority would be very beneficial to athletes and the sport.
DaProf, you're the man, but to me a system that guarantees a certain level of wage security isn't socialism. If so then the filthy rich athletes in the NFL, NBA, MLB, PGA etc. are all pinkos.
Boxing is a global sport and should look to other global sports such as soccer/football, tennis and athletics for guidance.

Boxers not named Mayweather, Pacquaio etc. do make money. Just one example, the youngster Jesse Vargas was making a $100k for matches in late 2011 and early 2012. There's a reason that many internatinal boxers have no interest in leaving their homelands. No doubt that you have to pay your dues in boxing and don't make much in the beginning, but there's a lot of money to go around. The fault is the promoters and doofus press for not truly advocating for the boxers.

The earlier comments about the MMA not airing their dirty laundry, to me, are spot on. How many people know that the UFC's ratings are apparently decreasing?
There's an article on SportsIllustrated.com about it. UFC's TV ratings

Even though the UFC's ratings are questionable, American advertisers/broadcasters aren't ready to give up on the UFC because of the demographic that watches it...not because the sport is taking over. The press won't give up on it because they are the same guys who were crowing at any chance they could that "boxing is dead, long live MMA."
MMA/cage fighting is popular here and in other countries, but it definitely isn't a global sport and I sincerely doubt that it will ever reach that level.

There are only a few truly global sports - soccer/football, tennis, athletics and boxing, (golf too?). Baseball is only popular in North America (South America/Latin America?), a few islands in the caribbean, Japan and Korea.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Jan 18 2013, 01:40 AM) *
I don't pay attention to MMA and wasn't going to comment except that I like the idea of there being a base pay for athletes.
As mentioned already in this thread, a union and central authority would be very beneficial to athletes and the sport.
DaProf, you're the man, but to me a system that guarantees a certain level of wage security isn't socialism. If so then the filthy rich athletes in the NFL, NBA, MLB, PGA etc. are all pinkos.
Boxing is a global sport and should look to other global sports such as soccer/football, tennis and athletics for guidance.

Boxers not named Mayweather, Pacquaio etc. do make money. Just one example, the youngster Jesse Vargas was making a $100k for matches in late 2011 and early 2012. There's a reason that many internatinal boxers have no interest in leaving their homelands. No doubt that you have to pay your dues in boxing and don't make much in the beginning, but there's a lot of money to go around. The fault is the promoters and doofus press for not truly advocating for the boxers.

The earlier comments about the MMA not airing their dirty laundry, to me, are spot on. How many people know that the UFC's ratings are apparently decreasing?
There's an article on SportsIllustrated.com about it. UFC's TV ratings

Even though the UFC's ratings are questionable, American advertisers/broadcasters aren't ready to give up on the UFC because of the demographic that watches it...not because the sport is taking over. The press won't give up on it because they are the same guys who were crowing at any chance they could that "boxing is dead, long live MMA."
MMA/cage fighting is popular here and in other countries, but it definitely isn't a global sport and I sincerely doubt that it will ever reach that level.

There are only a few truly global sports - soccer/football, tennis, athletics and boxing, (golf too?). Baseball is only popular in North America (South America/Latin America?), a few islands in the caribbean, Japan and Korea.


laugh.gif the nfl wasn't what i had in mind when i mention socialism. here's the plan aiba has... aiba pro boxing

in essence...what they are trying to do is put everyone else out of business and drive down the wages up top. there will be no more mega stars earning millions like floyd, dlh, tyson..etc.


Southeastpaw
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 17 2013, 06:27 PM) *
fertitta is keeping his secret. he says they don't have to report the bonuses to the commission...they just have to report the contracted pay. no doubt, the ufc has done something special. it's a small organization in comparison to boxing and the smaller ship is easier to steer. i didn't watch the whole video but one thing is clear....this guy is a salesman. almost talks as good as a lawyer. i wouldn't expect him to bad mouth his own business....and of course he's going to make it sound bigger than it really is, that's what he's supposed to do.

aiba is attempting to do for boxing what the ufc has done mma. it basically comes down to capitalism(the current way) vs socialism(ufc/aiba way) the way i see. both have their advantages and disadvantages.

if you haven't had a chance to check it out...visit their website.

Thanks for giving the video a gander. I will check out that site when I get a chance.

It's hard to make everyone happy I suppose. I know the UFC model is not the end all, be all perfect model. There will never be. And while the superstars of the sport don't get paid as much as the superstars in boxing, they still do very well. And I'd say quite well for how long the sport has been around.

It's just that there are so many obstacles in boxing. For example, if we have a TR fighter that we want to see fight a GBP fight, good luck. I just appreciate that the fights that need to happen happen in the UFC. Sure, there are going to be some unhappy fighters in the UFC. But give me an organization where there aren't some unhappy fighters.
BrutUalBK
1. Make it a Sanctioned Sport like NBA, NFL and MLB
2. Give it standardized rules for all states, organizations and promoters no matter where and who they are
3. Standardize mandatory Life and Health Insurance to ensure all are cared for should an accident occur.
4. Change the criteria for judging fights, get rid of CompuBox
5. Institute a longer review period to give judges more time to review the fights on video without the crowd, promoters or whatever other undue influence to ensure that they render the correct decision in close/controversial bouts.
6. Get rid of all of these Alphabet Organizations.
7. Mandatory and Random Blood, Urine/Drug Testing Before, During and After all fights.
8. One belt/one Champion
9. Institute a 4 fight tournament to award the most deserving of the Top 4 fighters in the weight class to get a shot at the champ.
10. PPVs should include 3 Championship fights with Top fighters fighting to see who fights one another in the very next PPV in each weight class.

Yes, I know some of this is radical and unrealistic but these are just amongst my Top 10, imagine what I haven't said here yet. LOL
Cheesey1
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 18 2013, 02:13 AM) *
laugh.gif the nfl wasn't what i had in mind when i mention socialism. here's the plan aiba has... aiba pro boxing

in essence...what they are trying to do is put everyone else out of business and drive down the wages up top. there will be no more mega stars earning millions like floyd, dlh, tyson..etc.

I took a look at the video and skimmed through the brochure. They say a lot of great things, but if it's essentially a deal where the APB/AIBA becomes the 'employer' as opposed to a FIFA like body then yeah, it smells fishy.

(Also didn't help their cause that they got an endorsement from the Holy Hennessey spokesperson...)
daprofessor
vision and sobriety tests for all judges.
mrchitown
Nice vid, I like Fertitta better then Dana TBH. He said a lot but a lot of the fighters and managers say otherwise in regards to how they treat and pay their fighters. But I'm more interested in seeing how their system works when another company comes along and grows and they won't be able to buy them out like they do their competition.

That's really my main beef with the UFC, they seem to be afraid of competition. But I think a storm is coming their way and they won't be able to get out of it. Their not being challenged yet but it's coming. I don't know if they can handle the competition. They've already got issues with the TRT and the very thing that made them appealing is fading. You brought up that the best fight the best in the UFC which is debatable, but look at Bones and a few other fighters. We're starting to see fighters say no to Dana and the UFC and sit out and wait for the fights THEY want.

They do a tremendous job of maximizing their dollars with the promotional work they do and I do agree that they have some elements that can be incorporated into boxing. But both sports can learn and incorporate certain elements from one another
Jack 1000
With the recent controversial decisions in past fights, I would like to see judges crawl out from under their rocks to explain their questionable scorecards. Nevada does that sometimes if the the public outcry is strong enough. However, I don't know if so many decisions can always be tracked back to incompetence. If incompetence was the issue:

1.) A fighter brought in to lose, would get undeserved wins, almost as much as the marquee fighter gets an undeserved win. The second instance is stronger by leaps and bounds. When is the last time a fighter with a losing record won against a marquee promoter protected fighter?

2.) Even the most incompetent judges seem to follow a pattern:

a.) They know who the promoter is.
b.) They know the money fighter
c.) The give close rounds to the money fighter, hometown favorite, better record guy.

3.) So if there is corruption with bad scoring, do you believe it is carried out in the same and similar way each time? Since corruption is so hard to prove, say in a court of law, or even the issue where speculation in our society has a way of becoming fact. Is it just money being exchanged between the promoter and the judge? Or is it something more that is difficult to explain? Wouldn't the parties involved be afraid of getting caught?

4.) I think that there is a situation where less experienced judges may want to please the promoter But is there intimidation by going against the promoters' fighter? How much intimidation?

5.) The recent Martinez-Burgos WBO championship fight it is important to note that President Paco Varcarcel works to always employ judges with the most experience. HOWEVER, THERE IS A PROVISION IN THE UNIFIED RULES OF THE ASSOCIATION OF BOXING COMMISSION BI-LAWS THAT GIVES THE STATES THE POWER TO SELECT THEIR OWN OFFICIALS. It raises the question that the trust and competence of the commission in New York needs to be examined. They did what Texas did in the Cloud-Campillo fight, brought in judges with very limited to no world championship credentials. I can understand one lesser-qualified judge, as people have to start somewhere, but all commissions should make sure that the other two judges have the qualifications to work championship fights. Had those fights occurred in countries outside of the USA, the governing body, would have the authority to appoint more veteran officials.

6.) Or could it be that state commissions have so many aging officials, that in the they don't have enough top judges?

Jack
daprofessor
i think they should make judges wear head cams for televised world title fights!!! that would solve a lot of issues.

the reason i say this is because it would give us an accurate account of what each judge is seeing and it can provide us with information on determining whether a judge is capable, corrupt or incompetent.

i was watching a fight recently...can't remember which one...but the judge facing the camera was in clear view and i noticed that she was just looking at one fighter most of the rounds. the focus should be on both fighters imo.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 21 2013, 01:02 PM) *
i think they should make judges wear head cams for televised world title fights!!! that would solve a lot of issues.

the reason i say this is because it would give us an accurate account of what each judge is seeing and it can provide us with information on determining whether a judge is capable, corrupt or incompetent.

i was watching a fight recently...can't remember which one...but the judge facing the camera was in clear view and i noticed that she was just looking at one fighter most of the rounds. the focus should be on both fighters imo.


One good example how people saw a much different fight at home than in person was Mosley-Delahoya II. At home, scores were like 115-113 to 116-112 for Oscar. But at press row and others who attended the fight, many people had it 115-113 for Shane. All three judges went 115-113 for Mosley, BUT they got there by scoring several rounds differently.

I'm gonna try to find the round by round scores for Martinez-Burgos. (The Master Scoresheet.) If someone wants to contact FightNews, they will often get it from the commission, make a copy and put it up on the site.

Jack
mikE11
QUOTE (Jovi @ Jan 11 2013, 02:43 PM) *
Boxing should be on more than once a week, sometimes more than once a day. Have the scheduling like NBA.

It could be certain weight classes on certain days or something.

But i hate sometimes waiting weeks or months to watch a fight.

Fighters should be required to fight more than a certain amount of times a year.

Just make the sport organized.


There is more boxing on tv than a person (with a job) can watch. Get a dvr.
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