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Full Version: Saul and Floyd in September? What About Alverez?
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Dolimite
http://www.boxingscene.com/team-canelo-wer...eptember--61306

Any thoughts? The question is what 147 or 140 fighter will Saul fight?
mrchitown
I hope they do lace up against each other this year. I'm not as high on Canelo as most people seem to be and it's not just due to the opposition he's faced. His defense is mediocre and that's putting it nicely, he's not this power puncher fans and others make him out to be, he's just heavy handed

The only issue I can see Floyd having in a Canelo bout is the size of Canelo. Canelo is a young bull and he'd be we'll served to try to bully Mayweather against the ropes and land those body shots. Ultimately I see Mayweather beating him in a competitive fight. Mayweather's boxing IQ and his defense will carry him thru this fight. Canelo is too easy to hit and those shots are coming from 140 and 147lbers. Imagine what Floyd or even a legitimate Jr. Middleweight would do to him.

Fightnews has reported that Canelo's opponent is likely going to be Trout but Cotto is still in the mix to land the fight. Why Miguel's name is still being considered is beyond my comprehension outside of him being a name fighter.
leonthegee
My guess is Canelo fights the Ishe Smith vs K9 winner. I would be pleasantly surprized if GBP picked Trout with Floyd kn the horizon. El Perro is another possibility too.
mitukczuk
I can't believe Guerrero is actually being mentioned as the possible opponent for Floyd. It will be a good year for boxing if Canelo and Floyd meet...not sure if Alvarez is ready though.
Dolimite
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Jan 12 2013, 06:39 AM) *
I can't believe Guerrero is actually being mentioned as the possible opponent for Floyd. It will be a good year for boxing if Canelo and Floyd meet...not sure if Alvarez is ready though.


I remember Floyd saying he would never give his fans a crap fight like Guerrero and he didn't even know who the guy was so hopefully he keeps that in mind when he announces his opponent. Then again who would you like to see Floyd face? Guerrero is his mandatory but I am sure there are better fights out there.

Alvarez is young and a good looking guy, I am not gay by any means but looking at it from the stand point of a female he isn't ugly I get that and think that is what Golden Boy is banking on. A young heavy handed boxer that can knock someone out (light welter weight and a welter weight) with one punch. His opponents rival that of Chavez Jr. bums and tomato cans or over the hill fighters. If Red finally faces someone in his weight class will he fold or prove to the world that he should be in the ring with Mayweather and other top champions.

Last night Austin Trout on Friday Night Fights called out Simply Red so we will see if he accepts a real challenge. My guess he will fight the winner of Judah and Garcia.
Jack 1000
I think Floyd has more trouble with "The Ghost" than with "Cinnamon Head."

Not sold on Alverez at all. But he would be a bigger draw than Guerrero, Floyd would make more money fighting Alverez than facing "The Ghost."

Jack
mitukczuk
Guerrero will make the fight really ugly. I'm guessing it will be a mix of Mayweather vs. Hatton and Guerrero vs. Berto or something similar. Lot's of illegal punches, low blows, holding and punching....I am still waiting for Floyd to say something about the matter...
Dolimite
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jan 12 2013, 07:07 AM) *
I think Floyd has more trouble with "The Ghost" than with "Cinnamon Head."

Not sold on Alverez at all. But he would be a bigger draw than Guerrero, Floyd would make more money fighting Alverez than facing "The Ghost."

Jack


Why do you think Floyd will have more trouble with Guerrero? I think he fights like Castillo, ugly and dirty but he gets the job down.

I agree with you about Saul.
mgrover
I've recently made the weight of 140lb, am sure I'll receive a ring soon...
Jack 1000
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 12 2013, 12:00 PM) *
Why do you think Floyd will have more trouble with Guerrero? I think he fights like Castillo, ugly and dirty but he gets the job down.

I agree with you about Saul.


I don't think Alverez is all that good. I think Geurrero does fight like Castillo and has the potential to be Floyd's toughest foe since Castillo I. Forget the second fight, neither did shit, and I scored it a draw, although I was very pissed and wanted Floyd to lose, because I think Jose was robbed in the first fight, and my hatred of Floyd as a person was pretty intense. It HAS mellowed somewhat. LOL! I like Guerreo's aggression and balls to the wall approach. The layoff will tell us a lot. Maybe, just maybe Floyd doesn't have the great slickness and agility that he used to have, and if Floyd's reflexes are not so good, in addition to THE POTENTIAL for Guerrero to be in the pocket and agressive. A type of opponent who Floyd has not seen in a long time, could Robert pull off the upset?

Let's not forget that Floyd is not getting any younger! I wonder what the odds will be for Guerrero to win? I mean this is totally due to age in inactivity for Floyd, who would sweep the floor with Guerrero just a few years ago. Robert will fight to the end and is a good mandatory. Alverez is the bigger name, but even an inactive Floyd stops him on cuts in about 10 rounds.

Bigger Money-Floyd vs. Alverez

Riskier Fight with a potential shock-Floyd-Guerrero

Jack
Jovi
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jan 12 2013, 03:58 PM) *
I don't think Alverez is all that good. I think Geurrero does fight like Castillo and has the potential to be Floyd's toughest foe since Castillo I. Forget the second fight, neither did shit, and I scored it a draw, although I was very pissed and wanted Floyd to lose, because I think Jose was robbed in the first fight, and my hatred of Floyd as a person was pretty intense. It HAS mellowed somewhat. LOL! I like Guerreo's aggression and balls to the wall approach. The layoff will tell us a lot. Maybe, just maybe Floyd doesn't have the great slickness and agility that he used to have, and if Floyd's reflexes are not so good, in addition to THE POTENTIAL for Guerrero to be in the pocket and agressive. A type of opponent who Floyd has not seen in a long time, could Robert pull off the upset?

Let's not forget that Floyd is not getting any younger! I wonder what the odds will be for Guerrero to win? I mean this is totally due to age in inactivity for Floyd, who would sweep the floor with Guerrero just a few years ago. Robert will fight to the end and is a good mandatory. Alverez is the bigger name, but even an inactive Floyd stops him on cuts in about 10 rounds.

Bigger Money-Floyd vs. Alverez

Riskier Fight with a potential shock-Floyd-Guerrero

Jack



Idk if I'm the only one, but Castillo loss to Floyd pretty clearly, MOST of his shots were blocked, I've seen Floyd in much closer and tougher fights. I remember him saying that he thought the fight was easy and he knew he won clearly.

I was once against Floyd vs Guerrero because I do think Floyd should just fight the best out there, but its his first fight since coming out of jail, and he's older. He's smart enough to know he needs a tune up before a real fight later this year. A quick payday until his record breaker with Canelo.. I think they are just feeding Guerrero to Floyd, hes mexican american so they will try to sell that off, and they caught him coming off that win where he made Berto look like he had allergies.

Easy fight for Floyd and i think its going to be the fight that we need to where Floyd will dominate and do damage. Floyd is coming back bigger and stronger, he has fought many many many fighters who try to come up and throw him against the ropes. I dont think Ghost gets away with as much dirty shit as he did against Berto, and he will get held alot if he tries to get to crazy. Floyd out works him, much faster, alot of counters and alot of straight right hands with a few lefts hooks and he's out. Mayweather's has an inside game unlike berto, I just dont see this going anyway like it did against berto, i just see a Mayweather Domination.

Victor ortiz and Berto had a war...Mayweather was breaking Victor down and dominating him whiched force him to get feral and then get put down....Mayweather hasn't been inactive as much as paquiao was so i dont see him being that rusty. He probably went to the gym the day after He say Pac get knocked out lol, he already knew!

Floyd has a harder time Canelo, who is pretty well rounded though he does get hit alot he is getting better.

If mayweather holds true to not facing Guerrero then he should face bradley...I dont think bradley would mind taking that payday.

IF Canelo really wants to test himself to be confident for floyd the only choice i see is trout. No doubt.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jan 12 2013, 11:58 AM) *
I don't think Alverez is all that good. I think Geurrero does fight like Castillo and has the potential to be Floyd's toughest foe since Castillo I. Forget the second fight, neither did shit, and I scored it a draw, although I was very pissed and wanted Floyd to lose, because I think Jose was robbed in the first fight, and my hatred of Floyd as a person was pretty intense. It HAS mellowed somewhat. LOL! I like Guerreo's aggression and balls to the wall approach. The layoff will tell us a lot. Maybe, just maybe Floyd doesn't have the great slickness and agility that he used to have, and if Floyd's reflexes are not so good, in addition to THE POTENTIAL for Guerrero to be in the pocket and agressive. A type of opponent who Floyd has not seen in a long time, could Robert pull off the upset?

Let's not forget that Floyd is not getting any younger! I wonder what the odds will be for Guerrero to win? I mean this is totally due to age in inactivity for Floyd, who would sweep the floor with Guerrero just a few years ago. Robert will fight to the end and is a good mandatory. Alverez is the bigger name, but even an inactive Floyd stops him on cuts in about 10 rounds.

Bigger Money-Floyd vs. Alverez

Riskier Fight with a potential shock-Floyd-Guerrero

Jack


Jack I have to disagree about the Castillo fight especially the first one. I think Castillo was aggressive but he was getting hit all night. It was a dirty and gritty fight and the best man won. The second fight was a no contest win to Floyd. I saw the Castillo fight as a neutral fan. I wasn't completely sold om Floyd at the time and I really did love Castillo's heart. Floyd vs. Guerrero in my opinion will look a lot like his fight with Baldomire (remember that guy). Floyd is going to fight from the distance and around Guerrero his foot work and cutting the ring off is going to give the Ghost issues. Floyd will pot shot him all night. Guerrero will be forced to constantly come forward only making the beating worse. Cotto was bigger than Floyd so he could push him around and Cotto is more skilled than Guerrero. Alvarez is only interesting because of the hype. If he fights El Perro and not Austin Trout than Saul should be stripped of his "title" and he will be on my permanent shit list.

Great Post Jack!
duwdu
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 12 2013, 05:16 PM) *
Jack I have to disagree about the Castillo fight especially the first one. I think Castillo was aggressive but he was getting hit all night. It was a dirty and gritty fight and the best man won. The second fight was a no contest win to Floyd. I saw the Castillo fight as a neutral fan. I wasn't completely sold om Floyd at the time and I really did love Castillo's heart. Floyd vs. Guerrero in my opinion will look a lot like his fight with Baldomire (remember that guy). Floyd is going to fight from the distance and around Guerrero his foot work and cutting the ring off is going to give the Ghost issues. Floyd will pot shot him all night. Guerrero will be forced to constantly come forward only making the beating worse. Cotto was bigger than Floyd so he could push him around and Cotto is more skilled than Guerrero. Alvarez is only interesting because of the hype. If he fights El Perro and not Austin Trout than Saul should be stripped of his "title" and he will be on my permanent shit list.

Great Post Jack!


Your analyses match my sentiments exactly, especially that on the Mayweather-Castillo fights.

Very good post.

P34c3
Jack 1000
I see Guerrero as an Ortiz with balls. Victor a lot of times has none. Although how he grew some in the Berto fight remains a mystery! They have disappeared since! LOL!

Alvarez, I just don't see anything in him other than a popular fan base. The Ghost doesn't have that yet. If I were Floyd, I would fight Alvarez first just to test the water coming back. Than in six months, fight Guerrero. The WBC and with Floyd's influence behind them, he should have no problem getting a deadline extension. We'll see!

Jack
BoxingFan86
QUOTE (Jovi @ Jan 12 2013, 03:43 PM) *
Idk if I'm the only one, but Castillo loss to Floyd pretty clearly, MOST of his shots were blocked, I've seen Floyd in much closer and tougher fights. I remember him saying that he thought the fight was easy and he knew he won clearly.

I was once against Floyd vs Guerrero because I do think Floyd should just fight the best out there, but its his first fight since coming out of jail, and he's older. He's smart enough to know he needs a tune up before a real fight later this year. A quick payday until his record breaker with Canelo.. I think they are just feeding Guerrero to Floyd, hes mexican american so they will try to sell that off, and they caught him coming off that win where he made Berto look like he had allergies.

Easy fight for Floyd and i think its going to be the fight that we need to where Floyd will dominate and do damage. Floyd is coming back bigger and stronger, he has fought many many many fighters who try to come up and throw him against the ropes. I dont think Ghost gets away with as much dirty shit as he did against Berto, and he will get held alot if he tries to get to crazy. Floyd out works him, much faster, alot of counters and alot of straight right hands with a few lefts hooks and he's out. Mayweather's has an inside game unlike berto, I just dont see this going anyway like it did against berto, i just see a Mayweather Domination.

Victor ortiz and Berto had a war...Mayweather was breaking Victor down and dominating him whiched force him to get feral and then get put down....Mayweather hasn't been inactive as much as paquiao was so i dont see him being that rusty. He probably went to the gym the day after He say Pac get knocked out lol, he already knew!

Floyd has a harder time Canelo, who is pretty well rounded though he does get hit alot he is getting better.

If mayweather holds true to not facing Guerrero then he should face bradley...I dont think bradley would mind taking that payday.

IF Canelo really wants to test himself to be confident for floyd the only choice i see is trout. No doubt.
No, he made Berto look like a guy with severe allergies that ran into a hornets nest.
Dolimite
Guerrero gets credit for making a dirty fight with Berto the same Berto who folds under pressure? Okay. What does Guerrero have in his arsenal that could give Mayweather issues? He isn't going to push him around and he doesn't have knockout power. His conditioning isn't that great and his footwork is sub par at best so besides hear and a high punch rate what does he really have? Guerrero is like the Atlanta Falcons, they do good against sub par opponents but when facing stiff competition they fall the hell off.
mgrover
realistically who else Mayweather supposed to fight?

Saul:

Well he has come a bit of a way I guess, does box a bit better, but this is against old, shot opponents and the a very bloated Lopez. The bad thing was that Lopez actually managed to back him up at times against the ropes at him, he Lopez couldn't really hurt him but imagine someone who could.

Robert:

He'll go balls to the wall with Mayweather, but realistically I think it might be a Cotto type of fight, Robert may actually land some decent jabs, but he'll end up with a counter hook in his face all night long. The movement might give Mayweather some trouble, but unless Mayweather's legs become shot it won't be enough
Jack 1000
QUOTE
Robert:

He'll go balls to the wall with Mayweather, but realistically I think it might be a Cotto type of fight, Robert may actually land some decent jabs, but he'll end up with a counter hook in his face all night long. The movement might give Mayweather some trouble, but unless Mayweather's legs become shot it won't be enough.

For a realistic assessment, I will go with this. Unless as you said, Floyd's legs and reflexes are gone.

Jack
wolterb
^Agreed.

I think one aspect of Guererro to his advantage is his ability to pull the trigger. In the Berto fight, and I realize Berto ain't mayweather, Gurerro didn't let Berto dictate the pace or get comfortable in his stance. He let his punches go and didn't freeze up often. Mayweather likes to be positioned just right; Berto seemed to be trying to emulate that - Guererro could make his fight against Mayweather an ugly one, one he isn't shut out in, if he lets his hands go while Mayweather postures.

Even on Guererro's best day I think he gets outclassed in this match - but I don't think hes gonna get knocked out and that gives him 12 rds to land something and capitalize on it.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jan 15 2013, 06:55 AM) *
^Agreed.

I think one aspect of Guererro to his advantage is his ability to pull the trigger. In the Berto fight, and I realize Berto ain't mayweather, Gurerro didn't let Berto dictate the pace or get comfortable in his stance. He let his punches go and didn't freeze up often. Mayweather likes to be positioned just right; Berto seemed to be trying to emulate that - Guererro could make his fight against Mayweather an ugly one, one he isn't shut out in, if he lets his hands go while Mayweather postures.

Even on Guerrero's best day I think he gets outclassed in this match - but I don't think hes gonna get knocked out and that gives him 12 rds to land something and capitalize on it.


Remember that The Ghost is not gonna have a native California ref or a guy like Russell Mora in there to allow him to be dirty by holding and hitting and working inside. They will have a fair ref, but its not gonna be like Lou Moret did in the Berto fight where he allowed Robert to do anything he wanted, and even borderline to illegal low blows.

Fighting dirty may be Robert's only chance to make this competitive. If the Ghost is in Floyd's face and throwing balls to the wall and bombing. Floyd has not had to deal with that since the first Castillo fight. It's almost like Floyd would have to go to California or get Mora as a ref to get that kind of situation where they will let Robert do what he wants.

You know, Guerrero's fight with Floyd could be like Hatton's fight with Floyd. The potential for the opponent to do more, but Cortez did not let Hatton fight inside against Floyd. I was even getting pissed at Hatton's holding in that fight. A Nevada ref won't let Robert hold and fight inside, so this is a swell up and bust up fight with Floyd winning comfortably after about the 4th round.

I will pick Floyd by TKO in the 12th (on cuts.)

Jack
Dolimite
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jan 15 2013, 07:37 AM) *
Remember that The Ghost is not gonna have a native California ref or a guy like Russell Mora in there to allow him to be dirty by holding and hitting and working inside. They will have a fair ref, but its not gonna be like Lou Moret did in the Berto fight where he allowed Robert to do anything he wanted, and even borderline to illegal low blows.

Fighting dirty may be Robert's only chance to make this competitive. If the Ghost is in Floyd's face and throwing balls to the wall and bombing. Floyd has not had to deal with that since the first Castillo fight. It's almost like Floyd would have to go to California or get Mora as a ref to get that kind of situation where they will let Robert do what he wants.

You know, Guerrero's fight with Floyd could be like Hatton's fight with Floyd. The potential for the opponent to do more, but Cortez did not let Hatton fight inside against Floyd. I was even getting pissed at Hatton's holding in that fight. A Nevada ref won't let Robert hold and fight inside, so this is a swell up and bust up fight with Floyd winning comfortably after about the 4th round.

I will pick Floyd by TKO in the 12th (on cuts.)

Jack

The last guy that got dirty with Mayweather ended up seeing the canvas very early. At this stage of the game Mayweather spots fighters styles very earlier Guerrero has a shot at beating Mayweather just like any other fight but the odds are not on his side. We shall see come May 4th
checkleft
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 15 2013, 08:33 PM) *
The last guy that got dirty with Mayweather ended up seeing the canvas very early. At this stage of the game Mayweather spots fighters styles very earlier Guerrero has a shot at beating Mayweather just like any other fight but the odds are not on his side. We shall see come May 4th

Doubt Robert is gonna try to make out w/ may like ortiz after pulling something dirty. He would more than likely follow it up with something else instead, just the kind of guy he strikes me as.
Dolimite
Now that we know that Floyd is fighting Alexander or so he says it still is completely unknown who Saul is fighting... I am guessing it is either between the winner of K9 and Smith. We shall see.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Jan 15 2013, 10:37 AM) *
Remember that The Ghost is not gonna have a native California ref or a guy like Russell Mora in there to allow him to be dirty by holding and hitting and working inside. They will have a fair ref, but its not gonna be like Lou Moret did in the Berto fight where he allowed Robert to do anything he wanted, and even borderline to illegal low blows.

Fighting dirty may be Robert's only chance to make this competitive. If the Ghost is in Floyd's face and throwing balls to the wall and bombing.1 Floyd has not had to deal with that since the first Castillo fight. It's almost like Floyd would have to go to California or get Mora as a ref to get that kind of situation where they will let Robert do what he wants.

You know, Guerrero's fight with Floyd could be like Hatton's fight with Floyd. The potential for the opponent to do more,2. but Cortez did not let Hatton fight inside against Floyd. I was even getting pissed at Hatton's holding in that fight. A Nevada ref won't let Robert hold and fight inside, so this is a swell up and bust up fight with Floyd winning comfortably after about the 4th round.

I will pick Floyd by TKO in the 12th (on cuts.)

Jack


1. I thought he dealt with it well in the fight with Jesus Chavez and Hatton

2. Hatton was doing more mauling than boxing, he was just wrestling/i wouldn't call that crap fighting.

Guerrero will need more than an inside game to beat Floyd, he will need to be able to be faster than Mayweather. That is the key to beating Floyd
neophyte7
Zab was faster and ended up going for a dq to save himself from being TKO'd.... Guerrero needing to be faster than Mayweather is funny...because that just isn't happening unless he slips flOYD some HALDOL or something...
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