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Full Version: Julio Cesar Chavez vs Meldrick Taylor revisited.
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mitukczuk
What's up guys.

About two weeks ago, I had an awesome conversation with few of my friends after our work out and the topic was the same as the title of this thread.

JCC vs Meldrick Taylor is one of the most intense fights I have ever seen. It mixes good with bad so efficiently I still can't make up my mind about the final outcome. Do I agree with Richard "Lexington" Steele? Would I stopped the fight too? Was it fixed? Was Steele just looking for an excuse to stop the fight to preserve JCC's 0 in the loss column ? So many questions. But I have to say...I see reasons for both...Meldrick was BEATEN UP...and I mean...he was FUBAR! On the other hand...2 or so seconds? Rly? I just don't know and that's what makes the fight so great.

I liked Taylor's speed but although Chavez was really connecting 1 to Meldrick's 3, these punches were bombs! Kudos to Meldrick's heart and will for making him upright through almost all 12 rounds. Needless to say though, JCC made him pay in gold and diamonds for any punches landed.
Mexican toughness vs the American (Philadelphian) swagger at its best.
I think Taylor's corner didn't plan the strategy for him too well though. In the first round he threw 96 punches...you just can't do that if you are not built like i don't know..Margarito. Chavez is Chavez and you have to conserve your energy against him because it is highly unlikely that the fight is going to end before the 12th round. I think that was a mistake...given that Taylor was young and inexperienced, it was a recipe for disaster which it ultimately was - 9th round through 12th he was OUT on his feet.

I couldn't breathe during the last minute of the 12th although I had already known how it is going to end. As Steele said, you could see the sand running out Taylor's hourglass. The crowd went balistic after the knockdown..I have never heard anything like that before.
Also, if you look at the face of Chavez right after the fight...where is the punishment ? He looks tired, but other than that..ready to have a party.

For once I truly believe that a fight really stands behind the downfall of a fighter's career.

What are your thoughts about Richard Steele's decision and the fight in general?

I recommend looking at both the fight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Inq5r61ZY

and HBO's "Legendary nights" segment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFQ2oJ3asaM
daprofessor
i remember that fight like it was yesterday. i absolutely agree that both sides have legitimate arguments. the way i see it....in the heat of the moment, with all the crowd roaring...that is a tough call for anyone to make. if u watch it again, u will see that richard steele asks taylor to come forward and he just stood there on unsteady feet. he looked straight into his eyes and had the best vantage point to see if meldrick could continue or not. richard steele is not the time keeper. i can't say that he heard the 10 second clapper...or if he was aware that there were only 2 seconds left. under the circumstances...in the heat of the moment, i get it. he made the right call.
daprofessor
why is this in the ufc forum? huh.gif
mitukczuk
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 17 2013, 02:08 PM) *
why is this in the ufc forum? huh.gif


Hah ! I was checking the UFC thread and apparently I couldn't be bothered with placing it to the right section. :X Can anyone move it?
mrchitown
Meldrick deserved the benefit of the doubt. He had the fight. That decision by Steele will forever cause debates
Southeastpaw
It's sad when a non UFC topic gets more posts than a UFC topic in a UFC forum. laugh.gif
mitukczuk
QUOTE (Southeastpaw @ Jan 18 2013, 12:54 PM) *
It's sad when a non UFC topic gets more posts than a UFC topic in a UFC forum. laugh.gif


No doubt. Can somebody move it to the right section? Or is it supposed to be forgotten ?
daprofessor
QUOTE (Southeastpaw @ Jan 18 2013, 01:54 PM) *
It's sad when a non UFC topic gets more posts than a UFC topic in a UFC forum. laugh.gif


laugh.gif i was thinking the same thing. i also thought maybe it was an attempt to get more hits in that forum.

which reminds me....what ever happened to the filter for boxing? i remember there being an option to just read boxing news on the front page...now i have to skip over stuff just to get to boxing. it's a huge inconvenience.
Southeastpaw
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 18 2013, 02:17 PM) *
laugh.gif i was thinking the same thing. i also thought maybe it was an attempt to get more hits in that forum.

which reminds me....what ever happened to the filter for boxing? i remember there being an option to just read boxing news on the front page...now i have to skip over stuff just to get to boxing. it's a huge inconvenience.

It's a conspiracy. shiftyeyes_anim.gif
Jack 1000
I disagree with the part of the comment that said Taylor was "Out on his feet in rounds 9-12." I think he was OUT when Chavez knocked him down with seconds to go. I recall it was never explained why Duva was coming up into the ring or what he was saying? Note he could have gotten Taylor DQ'd for that. Does anyone remember why Duva did what he did?

This is one of those 50/50 debates that has withstood the test of time. Watching it live, I thought it was a bad stoppage. Through several replays, I saw that Meldrick had no definitive responses to Steele's question when he twice asked him, "Are You OK?" Although, Richard did not give any time for an answer following his second, "Are You OK." He looked in his eyes and saw he was out. A shame it had to happen. Chavez was coming on, but I recall everyone had Taylor up something like 8-3. Amazingly, one judge had Chavez ahead, as did an LA Times reporter, and maybe one other writer. Can't see that at all. The first eight rounds were clear and obvious for Taylor.

Jack
checkleft
Meldricks trainer was an idiot. Nonetheless that was the greatest robbery I have ever seen. Terrible call by steele.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Southeastpaw @ Jan 18 2013, 03:53 PM) *
It's a conspiracy. shiftyeyes_anim.gif


laugh.gif it is.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jan 18 2013, 05:16 PM) *
Meldricks trainer was an idiot. Nonetheless that was the greatest robbery I have ever seen. Terrible call by steele.


georgie benton?
mitukczuk
Thanks for putting the thread into the right section!

I think that the fact there are two clear possible options to choose from - a robbery/good call makes this fight so great!
I mean, you can see people in between, people on JCC's side and people on Taylor's side.

Jack - Maybe I should put it into other words - during rounds 9 to 12th I could see Chavez really connecting and Meldrick visibly breaking down and tiring. Not that he was out on his feet probably, but JCC was getting to him, which kind of made me anticipate that something is coming.
I seriously blame Taylor's coaches for coming up with a bad strategy...Meldrick spent too much energy in the early rounds.

There are so many variables in judging this fight. Duva's interference, referee, behind the scenes politics, the actual fight.

I know that my heart is on Meldrick's side for sure. He deserved the victory and put literally everything on the line to get it. He probably lost everything in doing so too. On the other hand....I have to take my hat off to Chavez for going for it in the 12th. I am still amazed how his face looked after the fight...nothing!
Dolimite
This fight pisses me off until this day! No way should that fight should had been stopped with only seconds left. The ref was a idiot and he should had let the bell ring but I guess that would of pissed off the Mexican Mafia. Taylor beat Chavez Sr. ass the entire fight and the called it off at the last second what a robbery.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 18 2013, 07:29 PM) *
This fight pisses me off until this day! No way should that fight should had been stopped with only seconds left. The ref was a idiot and he should had let the bell ring but I guess that would of pissed off the Mexican Mafia. Taylor beat Chavez Sr. ass the entire fight and the called it off at the last second what a robbery.


i was more upset with what they did to whitaker. straight bullshit.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 18 2013, 04:59 PM) *
georgie benton?

Didn't he say to go out and fight in the 12th even tho that shit was in the bag? And if he wasn't screaming his Fucking brains out after the kd meldrick wouldn't have been so distracted.


QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 18 2013, 07:59 PM) *
i was more upset with what they did to whitaker. straight bullshit.

Preach brother.
Jack 1000
Steele said in an interview (or so he claims) that years later, he spoke to Meldrick and said Meldrick thought he "did the right thing." I don't know if I believe that. Politics comes into question, would Steele had done the same thing if Chavez (A favorite son of the WBC and more of a money maker for Taylor) had dominated Taylor for eight rounds and Taylor had floored Chavez with seconds remaining?

Jack
wolterb
I thought the stoppage was suspect - Taylor stood up and to my judgement should have seen seen the scorecards. But I also think it is possible the ref saw a different fight from his closer vantage than everyone else.

Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jan 18 2013, 05:59 PM) *
i was more upset with what they did to whitaker. straight bullshit.


Professor I watched that fight with Sweet Pea a million times and I am trying to figure out what round did Chavez dominate Sweet pea? That defense and those shots he was throwing at Chavez he had no answer! How the hell was that fight a draw? Chavez was a great fighter but he has gotten a bunch of gifts and the Sweet Pea one was the largest! You see there was no rematch! Bullshit!
Cshel86
I still tear up in anger after the 12th round of this fight. No doubt that Taylor banked those early rounds, and started getting broke down in the middle rounds, but that dude should've been given those last 2 seconds to fight. Steele has been a jackass since that day.
Jack 1000
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jan 19 2013, 06:54 PM) *
I thought the stoppage was suspect - Taylor stood up and to my judgement should have seen seen the scorecards. But I also think it is possible the ref saw a different fight from his closer vantage than everyone else.


He wouldn't have seen the cards, but still obviously knew he was ahead. I think the he did not look good after arising from the knockdown. He didn't answer Steele, his body language was that of a beaten fighter. But Steele could have given him the benefit of the doubt because there were only two seconds left. I could see both ways here.

Tyson-Ruddock I was a far worse and more bullshit stoppage by Steele than Chavez-Taylor I. At least with true controversy, you have opposing points of view. With Tyson-Ruddock I, there is no opposing point of view. Steele fucked up on that worse than ever!

Jack
wolterb
No kidding. It seemed like Ruddock played possum through some rounds and that gave Steele his chance to bungle the whole thing.

Atleast Tyson gave the rematch:
"Last time, you said it doesnt count unless hes dead..."
"Well he is still alive so we better do it again." lol
mitukczuk
It's great to see this fight is still fresh in our memories.

How do you feel about what happened to Taylor afterwards? Loss of focus, legal trouble, HEALTH PROBLEMS...do you see any connection to this fight or do you rather think Taylor would have fallen into these even without them ?
I think the "loss" or however you want to put it, mentally killed him. Hell, I would be pissed off to this day...Seeing how he ended up just breaks my heart.
Dolimite
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Jan 20 2013, 09:19 AM) *
It's great to see this fight is still fresh in our memories.

How do you feel about what happened to Taylor afterwards? Loss of focus, legal trouble, HEALTH PROBLEMS...do you see any connection to this fight or do you rather think Taylor would have fallen into these even without them ?
I think the "loss" or however you want to put it, mentally killed him. Hell, I would be pissed off to this day...Seeing how he ended up just breaks my heart.


Good point man. Look what happens to boxers when they get that first heartbreaking lost or robbery. If you are not mentally tough then everything can fall by the waist side. This is why I am amazed by Juan Manuel, this dude never stopped. He knew he beat Pac at least twice and he never let that lost hurt him mentally. I can't think of the boxers name that cried in the middle of his fight, he wouldn't hit the guy back, dude had a total melt down. Miguel Cotto is another example, after Margarito assaulted him with loaded gloves Miguel hasn't recovered; his confidence is gone. Diego Corrales (RIP) after Mayweather's clinic against him he just went down hill. He was undefeated and on his way to be a force in the boxing ring, and bam one disappointment after another. You have to be mentally tough, the same thing happen with Tyson the list goes on.
wolterb
^Oliver McCall did that in the Lewis rematch
wolterb
real awkward lol
Dolimite
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jan 20 2013, 12:17 PM) *
^Oliver McCall did that in the Lewis rematch


McCall!!!!!!!! That was the weirdest shit I have ever witnessed in any sport! I was like this dude is crying in the ring? Word had it that his wife was divorcing him and all kinds of other shit was going on! The dude would not fight back and his corner was like WTF dude! When he started crying and wouldn't hit back, I said this dude is done.
mitukczuk
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 20 2013, 05:42 PM) *
McCall!!!!!!!! That was the weirdest shit I have ever witnessed in any sport! I was like this dude is crying in the ring? Word had it that his wife was divorcing him and all kinds of other shit was going on! The dude would not fight back and his corner was like WTF dude! When he started crying and wouldn't hit back, I said this dude is done.


WORD!

Man, I couldn't belive that shit either. It takes a lot to bring an average man to tears or any other expressions of emotion. And seeing that in such a "macho" sport as boxing? That's just totally off. But it only adds to the fact that McCall must have been mentally totally destroyed. It was too one of the saddest moments I have ever witnessed in boxing.
wolterb
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Jan 21 2013, 04:22 AM) *
WORD!

Man, I couldn't belive that shit either. It takes a lot to bring an average man to tears or any other expressions of emotion. And seeing that in such a "macho" sport as boxing? That's just totally off. But it only adds to the fact that McCall must have been mentally totally destroyed. It was too one of the saddest moments I have ever witnessed in boxing.


I never found out the backstory behind why mccall was such a wreck but it is too bad the ref had to stop the fight. mccall's handlers shouldn't have let their guy expose himself like that on tv. But i'm assuming they knew the state of mccall, maybe they didn't.
Dolimite
QUOTE (wolterb @ Jan 21 2013, 10:01 AM) *
I never found out the backstory behind why mccall was such a wreck but it is too bad the ref had to stop the fight. mccall's handlers shouldn't have let their guy expose himself like that on tv. But i'm assuming they knew the state of mccall, maybe they didn't.


I heard he was having financial problems and he and his wife was getting a divorced, plus he had a drug issue at the time if I can recall. His life was just in disarray. What was weird is that when he came out he looked distraught, the first round the way he was fighting his corner should had known that Oliver was mentally gone. Still he could have been a very good boxer.
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