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mgrover
The clear favorite for this is Mayweather, has it all the man realistically is at the top of everything in the sport, well more or less. But is there anyone that can rival him? Not quite sure how far to stretch this era of boxing really. I mean the era is obviously ending
mitukczuk
It may be an overplayed tune, but Money Mayweather takes this hands down. Nobody matches him skill and business wise.
daprofessor
the only other person i can think of that comes close would be bernard hopkins. he's taken more chances than floyd and his losses are respectable for the most part. except for that acting job he did against dawson. if he can pull off this win against cloud...at his age...and this point in his career...that will be amazing.
mitukczuk
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 12 2013, 03:50 PM) *
the only other person i can think of that comes close would be bernard hopkins. he's taken more chances than floyd and his losses are respectable for the most part. except for that acting job he did against dawson. if he can pull off this win against cloud...at his age...and this point in his career...that will be amazing.


You may be onto something here, Prof. I totally forgot about B-Hop!

B-Hop is all about beating odds and nay sayers and completing milestones. But for some reason, I can only say he is close to the throne. Not on it. Though something like being close at his age is a damn big accomplishment anyways.
I think he has a fairly good chance of beating Cloud. I am not impressed with Tavoris and one can never count Bernard off..... not even on his death bed.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 12 2013, 07:50 PM) *
the only other person i can think of that comes close would be bernard hopkins. he's taken more chances than floyd and his losses are respectable for the most part. except for that acting job he did against dawson. if he can pull off this win against cloud...at his age...and this point in his career...that will be amazing.


I think he'll school Cloud tbh, but I don't really think Cloud is that good, I guess its fair to say BHop since he's technically part of this generation as he's fought on.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mitukczuk @ Feb 12 2013, 02:58 PM) *
You may be onto something here, Prof. I totally forgot about B-Hop!

B-Hop is all about beating odds and nay sayers and completing milestones. But for some reason, I can only say he is close to the throne. Not on it. Though something like being close at his age is a damn big accomplishment anyways.
I think he has a fairly good chance of beating Cloud. I am not impressed with Tavoris and one can never count Bernard off..... not even on his death bed.


bhop has a lot of thing in his favor when u make his case...

-longevity
-high caliber opposition
-defying the odds (more than once)
-broke several records
-hasn't really been beaten (badly)
-multiple division champion

bhop is truly a throw back fighter. there are things about him that i didn't like, but overall...his skills and accomplishments cannot be denied.

floyd on the other hand is always going to have naysayers and an asterisk because of the opposition he didn't face....or the point where he faced them. i think floyds skills are truly undeniable...but his accomplishment earlier in his career far outshine his more recent accomplishments.

boxing is a 'what have you done for me lately' sport...so...i can see arguments for either guy being the best of this era.

daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 12 2013, 03:38 PM) *
I think he'll school Cloud tbh, but I don't really think Cloud is that good, I guess its fair to say BHop since he's technically part of this generation as he's fought on.


cloud looked like shit against campillo...but that was a southpaw last minute replacement. cloud has a new trainer. let's see what it looks like.
Jovi
My personal favorite is Mayweather, aside from his antics, in the ring his skills are unmatched. After Mayweather vs Marquez, it was a wrap, Ill always be a fan of his work in the ring.

Marquez after Knocking out Pacquiao got pretty up there in my rankings. Ill always remember that, I called Marquez to win but DAMN. Hall of fame. Mayweather fucked up lol

Ward has the skills but is too inactive. I didn't really hear watch him until after i put a working on Froch. It was a wrap from there. And then he beat my next favorite Chad dawson, made him quit. haha dammm. Ward is nice but needs to fight more and cashout on his talents. before its too late!

If someone were to actually WIN against Mayweather then maybe they can take that torch. Canelo has potential for someone so young, if he were to beat Mayweather, Martinez, stepp down and beat Pacquiao somehow maybe Marquez?!!?. I'd be impressed but nahh no rivals for Mayweather,

If he we are talking Best "Fighters" of the Era i'll have to go with Jon Jones!!

Broner, Russel Jr, Rigondeux, Canelo- I have high hopes for after Mayweather retires ...and little 'cashflow' from 24/7
BrutUalBK
[size="5"][/size]
QUOTE (Jovi @ Feb 12 2013, 04:32 PM) *
My personal favorite is Mayweather, aside from his antics, in the ring his skills are unmatched. After Mayweather vs Marquez, it was a wrap, Ill always be a fan of his work in the ring.

Marquez after Knocking out Pacquiao got pretty up there in my rankings. Ill always remember that, I called Marquez to win but DAMN. Hall of fame. Mayweather fucked up lol

Ward has the skills but is too inactive. I didn't really hear watch him until after i put a working on Froch. It was a wrap from there. And then he beat my next favorite Chad dawson, made him quit. haha dammm. Ward is nice but needs to fight more and cashout on his talents. before its too late!

If someone were to actually WIN against Mayweather then maybe they can take that torch. Canelo has potential for someone so young, if he were to beat Mayweather, Martinez, stepp down and beat Pacquiao somehow maybe Marquez?!!?. I'd be impressed but nahh no rivals for Mayweather,

If he we are talking Best "Fighters" of the Era i'll have to go with Jon Jones!!

Broner, Russel Jr, Rigondeux, Canelo- I have high hopes for after Mayweather retires ...and little 'cashflow' from 24/7



I don't agree that it was Floyd's fault that Pacquaio didn't take the 40 million offered to him, he (Manny) was the one who got KTFO for far less.

Back on topic though, let me break it down nice and simple like this:

Floyd is the best concerning boxing skills, Hopkins is second concerning skills (When he's not gunshy his offensive abilities are nearly as great as Floyd's and I'd say defensively that Hopkins may be even better at this point). Mayweather's career early into his start already solidified his HOF status but let's not forget that he will be looked at for ducking the following fighters by many (although I do not agree with it):

Casamayor, Frietas, Margarito and Pacquiao.

Hopkins has faced tough opposition but he will be accused of ducking the following (again, I don't always agree):

Jones rematch (earlier than it happened), and Toney.

BHop has the longest MW reign behind him and as many defenses, that achievement alone solidified his HOF status and everything he's done or is doing now is no more than an extra cherry on top of an already great career.

IMO, it is a tie based on BHop's longevity, age and still fighting the top level opposition all along while having moved up from MW puts him on par with Mayweather, couple that with his equally as good offensive ability and his better defensively abilities (ask me and I'll elaborate why) then it becomes more clear why they're on the same level.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Jovi @ Feb 12 2013, 05:32 PM) *
My personal favorite is Mayweather, aside from his antics, in the ring his skills are unmatched. After Mayweather vs Marquez, it was a wrap, Ill always be a fan of his work in the ring.

Marquez after Knocking out Pacquiao got pretty up there in my rankings. Ill always remember that, I called Marquez to win but DAMN. Hall of fame. Mayweather fucked up lol

Ward has the skills but is too inactive. I didn't really hear watch him until after i put a working on Froch. It was a wrap from there. And then he beat my next favorite Chad dawson, made him quit. haha dammm. Ward is nice but needs to fight more and cashout on his talents. before its too late!

If someone were to actually WIN against Mayweather then maybe they can take that torch. Canelo has potential for someone so young, if he were to beat Mayweather, Martinez, stepp down and beat Pacquiao somehow maybe Marquez?!!?. I'd be impressed but nahh no rivals for Mayweather,

If he we are talking Best "Fighters" of the Era i'll have to go with Jon Jones!!

Broner, Russel Jr, Rigondeux, Canelo- I have high hopes for after Mayweather retires ...and little 'cashflow' from 24/7


huh!? huh.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Feb 12 2013, 06:03 PM) *
[/size]


I don't agree that it was Floyd's fault that Pacquaio didn't take the 40 million offered to him, he (Manny) was the one who got KTFO for far less.

Back on topic though, let me break it down nice and simple like this:

Floyd is the best concerning boxing skills, Hopkins is second concerning skills (When he's not gunshy his offensive abilities are nearly as great as Floyd's and I'd say defensively that Hopkins may be even better at this point). Mayweather's career early into his start already solidified his HOF status but let's not forget that he will be looked at for ducking the following fighters by many (although I do not agree with it):

Casamayor, Frietas, Margarito and Pacquiao.

Hopkins has faced tough opposition but he will be accused of ducking the following (again, I don't always agree):

Jones rematch (earlier than it happened), and Toney.

BHop has the longest MW reign behind him and as many defenses, that achievement alone solidified his HOF status and everything he's done or is doing now is no more than an extra cherry on top of an already great career.

[size="5"]IMO, it is a tie based on BHop's longevity, age and still fighting the top level opposition all along while having moved up from MW
puts him on par with Mayweather, couple that with his equally as good offensive ability and his better defensively abilities (ask me and I'll elaborate why) then it becomes more clear why they're on the same level.


i don't think there's any shame in any of bhops losses...aside from the acting job with dawson in the first match. they're all respectable. as for him not fighting jones or toney...both had moved on to much higher weights so i can't call those ducks. even with his losses....i'm kind of leaning towards bhops because in all honesty, he dared to be great on more than one occasion and actually defied the odds. when was the last time anyone thought floyd was going to lose a bout? i think they both have masterfully picked and chose their opposition especially later in their careers. bhop often took on much bigger challenges imo.
mgrover
What about someone like Vitali? Sure he hasn't had the best of competition but you can't realistically do much about that, he's taken on all comers and I always thought he deserved a Lennox Lewis rematch rather than Lewis's blatant to duck him
pimpfighterROQ
Bringing up Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko is another story here. I mean B-Hop, as great as he is, he's just way too dirty and way too boring for me. Mayweather is undefeated, pound for pound but fighting the best of the best in his class and the long lay offs from fight to fight is something to be argued about. The Klitschkos on the other hand fought everyone, hell they're forced to fight mandatories now since no one is rising up worthy enough of beating them.


daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 12 2013, 08:02 PM) *
What about someone like Vitali? Sure he hasn't had the best of competition but you can't realistically do much about that, he's taken on all comers and I always thought he deserved a Lennox Lewis rematch rather than Lewis's blatant to duck him


it's the same reason i can't label roy the best of his era...the real competition wasn't available. i know it's not klits fault...but it beez that way sometimes.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 12 2013, 06:52 PM) *
i don't think there's any shame in any of bhops losses...aside from the acting job with dawson in the first match. they're all respectable. as for him not fighting jones or toney...both had moved on to much higher weights so i can't call those ducks. even with his losses....i'm kind of leaning towards bhops because in all honesty, he dared to be great on more than one occasion and actually defied the odds. when was the last time anyone thought floyd was going to lose a bout? i think they both have masterfully picked and chose their opposition especially later in their careers. bhop often took on much bigger challenges imo.



Like I said, I don't agree with what some will say regarding BHop ducking or even Floyd for that matter but the truth of the matter is that some will still say it. You're right, there is absolutely no shame in any of BHop's losses, personally I thought he won the first fight with Taylor and he beat Calzaghe but when you stack enemies against you (especially the way he did in the Joe C fight) then you cannot expect to get the nod when there is a close contest and you're the most hated.

Hop's challenges are bigger than Floyd's especially when you factor in the age differences of him vs his opponents, so on that note another edge was given to Nard. Personally, I believe he still could've fought Toney or Jones regardless of either man moving up, remember Hopkins started as a LHW.

BrutUalBK
QUOTE (pimpfighterROQ @ Feb 12 2013, 07:10 PM) *
Bringing up Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko is another story here. I mean B-Hop, as great as he is, he's just way too dirty and way too boring for me. Mayweather is undefeated, pound for pound but fighting the best of the best in his class and the long lay offs from fight to fight is something to be argued about. The Klitschkos on the other hand fought everyone, hell they're forced to fight mandatories now since no one is rising up worthy enough of beating them.



I get so tired of hearing this too boring crap, his fights with Pascal were exciting, his bout with KP was exciting, with Felix exciting, both his bouts with Echols were scorchers, he dominated Joppy in a one-sided whuppin. I could go on and on listing Hopkins' fights where he wasn't boring but just to be objective I will list what I thought was his boring fights even though it still takes two to tango:

1st fight with Taylor (some may say their 2nd fight was no barn-burner either, Hakkar, he ran the entire fight>>>literally, Eastman, the last bout with Allen but he was playing it safe trying to get the DLH fight but honestly that is about it. If you have more or thought more of his fights were boring then that can easily be argued depending on whether or not you favor Boxing (the art of hitting without getting hit) vs Brawling (fighting, bleeding with little regard for defense and applying the true boxing trade).

Some people favor Brawlers and those that do will not like Hopkins, he is a technician on defense and offense and picks and choses wisely when to attack and when to defend. I can respect either, the Boxer or the Brawler but in order to truly appreciate a fighter like Hopkins you have to really know what a true Master Boxer is (and that is Hopkins).

I wouldn't even bother mentioning Vitali or Vlad, all they fought and beat is mostly the next Bum of the Month Club or fighters that were past their best though they have dominated the division they still don't warrant being considered or even mentioned in the same breath as Hopkins and Floyd.
mrchitown
It's between Hopkins and Mayweather. Though I tend to lean towards Bernard
The Original MrFactor
Hopkins.

he's done more after 40 than Mayweather has done his whole career. He's taken on the top guys in and around his weightclass. Win or lose, at least he gave us those fights and he was always competetive.
checkleft
To me guys like bhop an mayweather are obvious choices but I will always lean toward the guys who had to do it the hard way and couldn't pick and choose opponents. Guys like marquez and Martinez (no secret I'm a big Martinez fan). I just love how they didn't let their losses/robberies get in their way of getting to the top and not only to get there but to win fights against the odds against judges/promoters against top competition. But I guess you can call those more along the lines of peoples champs or underdogs
mgrover
See every time I'd like to give it to Hopkins, I just think PPV king, while Hopkins has struggled in this department.

As much as I love Martinez I just can't give it to him in all fairness he hasn't done enough in my eyes, starting out late hurt him but if he keeps on going till late which I really can't see him doing due to his style maybe.

Ward doesn't belong in this era, he's just getting started.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (checkleft @ Feb 13 2013, 04:53 AM) *
To me guys like bhop an mayweather are obvious choices but I will always lean toward the guys who had to do it the hard way and couldn't pick and choose opponents. Guys like marquez and Martinez (no secret I'm a big Martinez fan). I just love how they didn't let their losses/robberies get in their way of getting to the top and not only to get there but to win fights against the odds against judges/promoters against top competition. But I guess you can call those more along the lines of peoples champs or underdogs



The thing that is really hurting Martinez is having that Legendary fighter on his list, he has some decent A-Lister's but nothing that says HOF at the top levels which is why I believe he needs to move up or fight Andre Ward at a CW or at the very least call him out much in the way that he did with Floyd and Pac.

Martinez is a great fighter but needs to think about moving up, not calling ou those little guys and then he will move his name up in the stakes but still not be on par with BHop or Floyd.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 12 2013, 02:50 PM) *
the only other person i can think of that comes close would be bernard hopkins. he's taken more chances than floyd and his losses are respectable for the most part. except for that acting job he did against dawson. if he can pull off this win against cloud...at his age...and this point in his career...that will be amazing.

I agree, Hopkins is a good choice.

It's hard to vouch for Floyd when he only fights once every other year, then gets mad when people ask him who he's fighting next. Dudes are out here jocking a man that only fights every blue moon.

Bernard builds up his fights intelligently, or he makes the most of who's in front him.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 13 2013, 06:24 AM) *
See every time I'd like to give it to Hopkins, I just think PPV king, while Hopkins has struggled in this department.

As much as I love Martinez I just can't give it to him in all fairness he hasn't done enough in my eyes, starting out late hurt him but if he keeps on going till late which I really can't see him doing due to his style maybe.

Ward doesn't belong in this era, he's just getting started.


i get that some fighters are more popular than others. popularity drives ppv sales...but it's not the end all be all. if we're talking most popular of an era...pac takes this hands down. but i believe we are talking skills and accomplishment. ppv numbers are great for a fighters wallet...but ppv sales don't even come into the equation when i'm determining who the best is. but that's just me.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 13 2013, 01:05 PM) *
I agree, Hopkins is a good choice.

It's hard to vouch for Floyd when he only fights once every other year, then gets mad when people ask him who he's fighting next. Dudes are out here jocking a man that only fights every blue moon.

Bernard builds up his fights intelligently, or he makes the most of who's in front him.


i can't believe i'm making an argument for bhop. laugh.gif usually i'm on the other side of any discussion involving him.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 13 2013, 07:10 PM) *
i get that some fighters are more popular than others. popularity drives ppv sales...but it's not the end all be all. if we're talking most popular of an era...pac takes this hands down. but i believe we are talking skills and accomplishment. ppv numbers are great for a fighters wallet...but ppv sales don't even come into the equation when i'm determining who the best is. but that's just me.


It's not but if it's a decision that hangs in the balance it can help. For example Ali was simply the best of his era not because of who he fought or that he was champ, but the fact that he stood up for his rights etc.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 13 2013, 03:28 PM) *
It's not but if it's a decision that hangs in the balance it can help. For example Ali was simply the best of his era not because of who he fought or that he was champ, but the fact that he stood up for his rights etc.


ali fought everyone. what he did outside the ring elevated his status imo.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 13 2013, 07:31 PM) *
ali fought everyone. what he did outside the ring elevated his status imo.



Agreed, it was his fights that made him great. Think about it, he fought a who's who of the 70's. He fought Frazier, Foreman, Shavers, AND Holmes. You can add Liston and Patterson for good measure. Every last one of those guys is boxing royalty. Ali won most and lost a few. His stances outside the ring are what made him a larger than life figure.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 13 2013, 02:11 PM) *
i can't believe i'm making an argument for bhop. laugh.gif usually i'm on the other side of any discussion involving him.

I cant believe it either. Best believe, Im making the most of this eerie moment, it may be light-years before it ever happens again. laugh.gif
Dolimite
Isn't that what makes Floyd special is that he does fight when he wants? When he does fight it is like the Oscars for boxing. I respect Floyd for fighting when he wants to. I wished Ali fought less, he would be in much better health. Floyd is being mart with his career and I respect that. It is just like Bulls fans bitching about D Rose not playing, dude had a serious MCL surgery and the only reason why you want the dude to play is because you want to see him? That is how Grant Hill almost destroyed his career is by coming back too soon from an ankle injury (If Tamia were my wife I would never leave the house). It is the same in boxing, who knows what type of punishment Floyd takes in fights or the kind of training he puts his body through. The fact, when he fights, it is worth the wait and I can not knock him for that. Fans can be very selfish at times.


For the best of this era I have three candidates: 1. Mayweather Jr. 2. De La Hoya 3. Kiltchko
Mayweather self explanatory, Oscar fought everyone even though he lost big fights and Both K brothers have dominated the heavyweight division for a very long time.
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Feb 13 2013, 08:54 PM) *
Isn't that what makes Floyd special is that he does fight when he wants? When he does fight it is like the Oscars for boxing. I respect Floyd for fighting when he wants to. I wished Ali fought less, he would be in much better health. Floyd is being mart with his career and I respect that. It is just like Bulls fans bitching about D Rose not playing, dude had a serious MCL surgery and the only reason why you want the dude to play is because you want to see him? That is how Grant Hill almost destroyed his career is by coming back too soon from an ankle injury (If Tamia were my wife I would never leave the house). It is the same in boxing, who knows what type of punishment Floyd takes in fights or the kind of training he puts his body through. The fact, when he fights, it is worth the wait and I can not knock him for that. Fans can be very selfish at times.


For the best of this era I have three candidates: 1. Mayweather Jr. 2. De La Hoya 3. Kiltchko
Mayweather self explanatory, Oscar fought everyone even though he lost big fights and Both K brothers have dominated the heavyweight division for a very long time.


Don't go there bruh LOL
Dolimite
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Feb 13 2013, 10:09 PM) *
Don't go there bruh LOL


Man I hurt for yawl but Derrick Roses don't come into the league everyday! He will be back for the 2013-2014 season. Yawl are actually doing well without him. Just imagine how great yawl will be when he comes back.
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Feb 14 2013, 06:18 AM) *
Man I hurt for yawl but Derrick Roses don't come into the league everyday! He will be back for the 2013-2014 season. Yawl are actually doing well without him. Just imagine how great yawl will be when he comes back.


If he gets rid of his brothers from digging in his pockets, he'll be fine. There's nothing wrong with his knee. His brothers and his agent had him do those interviews and the Bulls are pissed about it, supposedly he doesn't like the way the team is constructed
Dolimite
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Feb 14 2013, 05:28 PM) *
If he gets rid of his brothers from digging in his pockets, he'll be fine. There's nothing wrong with his knee. His brothers and his agent had him do those interviews and the Bulls are pissed about it, supposedly he doesn't like the way the team is constructed


Awe shit, is Derrick trying to feed the hood? Lord, I hope the kid wakes up because he will end up like AI real quick!
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Feb 14 2013, 07:20 PM) *
Awe shit, is Derrick trying to feed the hood? Lord, I hope the kid wakes up because he will end up like AI real quick!


Yup, AI, Terrell Owens, all of em. Hopefully he can get them under wraps
daprofessor
AI broke? i heard about TO's problems.
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Feb 15 2013, 05:26 PM) *
AI broke? i heard about TO's problems.


AI makes Westley Snipes look rich! TO has too many UGLY baby mama's to feed.
neophyte7
mayweather has no losses but a strong case can be made for Hopkins being the best of this eara---.... Hopkin's accomplishments really put him in the discussions of greatest of all times in my view.. If he beats Cloud to become champion at 48 that argument becomes strengthened. Hopkins is literally a boxing immortal.... whether you like him or not
mgrover
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Feb 16 2013, 08:37 PM) *
mayweather has no losses but a strong case can be made for Hopkins being the best of this eara---.... Hopkin's accomplishments really put him in the discussions of greatest of all times in my view.. If he beats Cloud to become champion at 48 that argument becomes strengthened. Hopkins is literally a boxing immortal.... whether you like him or not


Thing is I think Clouds lack of skill cannot be bridged through any gap of age
neophyte7
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 16 2013, 04:24 PM) *
Thing is I think Clouds lack of skill cannot be bridged through any gap of age



LMAO...


ALI broke? well his family sold his name for 60 million... that has to keep some bill collectors at bay LMAO
Dolimite
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Feb 16 2013, 10:42 PM) *
LMAO...


ALI broke? well his family sold his name for 60 million... that has to keep some bill collectors at bay LMAO


AI (Allan Iverson) not ALI! LOL
wolterb
I think it is easy to name 5 fighters of this era that made a case for themselves of being the best. that is a pretty good handful during a time when most claim boxing isn't what it used to be.
The Original MrFactor
The first parameter that should be set is when is this era, beginning to end? Is Tito Trinidad considered, this era? De La Hoya? Roy Jones?
wolterb
^good point...i think that is a great question and any answer would be complicated. arguably each division deserves its own 'era'.
wolterb
my knee jerk answer is that 25 years would equate to an era but that encompasses a lot more fighters than most want to deal with when coming up with "the best". judging by the answers everyone is giving we are talking about a decade
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (wolterb @ Feb 18 2013, 05:43 PM) *
my knee jerk answer is that 25 years would equate to an era but that encompasses a lot more fighters than most want to deal with when coming up with "the best". judging by the answers everyone is giving we are talking about a decade



I'm much more comfortable saying fighter A was fighter of the decade. Fighter of the era is very complicated, as you said.
sduck
Really good points for Hopkins...when you list the Best of the Era, you know basically a contender for an "all time great", do you only look at opposition and fight results, or do you also look at stardom? If you put them all together, then you would go with Mayweather. That wouldn't stop Hopkins from being one of the greats of this era.
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