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mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 14 2013, 07:07 PM) *
Hopkins obviously, I mean he beat Cloud to win the IBF title, but realistically Cloud was the weakest of LHW champions.


You telling me that Cleverly and those other unknowns are better then Cloud? I disagree, you passing the mans victories off as cheap. Name one of the champs at 175 he can't beat outside of Dawson.

And you can't judge his competition in his division. You might as well sell Ward short or Martinez short because it aint a lot of competition in their division either
mgrover
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 15 2013, 07:33 PM) *
You telling me that Cleverly and those other unknowns are better then Cloud? I disagree, you passing the mans victories off as cheap. Name one of the champs at 175 he can't beat outside of Dawson.

And you can't judge his competition in his division. You might as well sell Ward short or Martinez short because it aint a lot of competition in their division either


Fair enough, I forgot about Cleverly because I don't really regard him as champ oh well. But no Ward beat all the top dogs in his division, and Martinez needs to unify.
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 15 2013, 06:46 PM) *
Fair enough, I forgot about Cleverly because I don't really regard him as champ oh well. But no Ward beat all the top dogs in his division, and Martinez needs to unify.


I like Cleverly but I want to see him in with better comp. You right, Dawson is the best light-heavy and he got handled by Ward, I don't care for the weight issue. I hope they eventually rematch at 175 some day

I wonder if Sergio would fight GGG, now that would be a fight!
mgrover
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 16 2013, 01:20 AM) *
I like Cleverly but I want to see him in with better comp. You right, Dawson is the best light-heavy and he got handled by Ward, I don't care for the weight issue. I hope they eventually rematch at 175 some day

I wonder if Sergio would fight GGG, now that would be a fight!


I want GGG to be a big enough name for Martinez so it'll happen
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 16 2013, 12:40 PM) *
I want GGG to be a big enough name for Martinez so it'll happen


I wouldn't be surprised if GGG beat Martinez
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 17 2013, 04:42 PM) *
I wouldn't be surprised if GGG beat Martinez



Me neither!!
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Mar 11 2013, 08:51 PM) *
Explain to me why this doesn't make sense?

They love: Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan (he didn't stand for shit), RGIII (because he doesn't think race is a problem and he is happy on the plantation), Shane Mosley ( He is the good negro), Tiger Woods (he is canibi some bullshit, has no identity to black culture so they love that).

They hate the Williams sister because they do not apologize for who they are or where they come from. They hate and do mean hate Floyd because he is a Loud mouth can back up his skills and when he speaks about race problems he is dead on. I do not agree with everything Floyd says but I can tell you has spoken the truth. I do not know your nationality but you can not tell a black person what is racist and what is not. I lived this life for two decades and a half and I can tell you the shit is real. By the way, they hated LeBrone because he did not fall into their trap. When he left Cleveland you thought he escaped from the plantation (which he did) and they will never forgive him for that, now they have no choice but to respect him because he is backing up his skills.


dude has a white girlfriend living in chocolate city.....yikes
Hotsauce
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 11 2013, 10:15 PM) *
When he caught the rape charge is when sh*t hit the fan, wen he did that mess to Givens I don't recall too many up in arms about it. After all, look how she embarrassed him on national television....And you can't exclude him for that. If that's the case then many black athletes should be excluded. He was a part of the same things many of these athletes were in regards to the way he was perceived and the way he was eventually treated

Part of the reason he got the backlash from those 2 situations is that he kept winning. It's funny how the people build you up but over time they want to see you fail.....and then they'll shower you with endless affection. Tyson is a perfect example of this. So is Vick. These idiots care more about dogs then getting guns off the streets and implementing programs for the community.


and dude was getting threats when he was trying to go on tour.......smh
mrchitown
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Mar 18 2013, 08:40 PM) *
and dude was getting threats when he was trying to go on tour.......smh


I heard about that, I don't know the guy personally but people need to move past these issues. I don't think it's so much the dog fighting, I think they have a real issue with him. The reasons for that are open to interpretation
sduck
I think what MG is saying makes sense. You can definitely credit Hopkins for his victories, at that age and to beat young champions, but they still weren't the BEST of fighters, so you shouldn't over credit it. I also think someone mentioned Ward...only thing I dislike about Ward's accomplishments is how highly people praise his victory over Dawson. Though it is Dawson's own fault, but you still can't give Ward that kind of praise for the win, because Dawson wasn't the same fighter he normally was. Dude dropped 7lbs for the fight, and was bout dead in the ring. Wasn't a fair fight at all. People easily like to discredit certain fighters, but contradict themselves when they don't do the same for others.

More on the race issue, black celebrities aren't necessarily a victim of race, but are a victim of being successful and their own characters. People (typically haters) get off to seeing success fail, no matter what race or culture they are from. Not saying that is literally being stated in the discussion, I just want to make it clear...
anthonyaccurate
To anyone discrediting b-hop for beating cloud as it pertains to his skill level, did you discredit Tyson for beating
Berbick when he set the record as the youngest champ?
mrchitown
QUOTE (anthonyaccurate @ Mar 19 2013, 04:01 AM) *
To anyone discrediting b-hop for beating cloud as it pertains to his skill level, did you discredit Tyson for beating
Berbick when he set the record as the youngest champ?


Agreed. You can only fight whose available to you. I wasn't alive when Pep and Sugar Ray Robinson were fighting but let's not act like some of the ATG's didn't have cab drivers and butlers on their resumes back then lol...and they're better then the fighters today so interpret that how you will. I don't know who he has to beat or who he's supposed to fight to get the credit he deserves
mgrover
QUOTE (anthonyaccurate @ Mar 19 2013, 10:01 AM) *
To anyone discrediting b-hop for beating cloud as it pertains to his skill level, did you discredit Tyson for beating
Berbick when he set the record as the youngest champ?


Depends, where there any better champs at that weight? There was Michael Spinks and Tim Witherspoons, supposedly that Spinks was the lineal champ. So really Tyson should of fought him if he was the top dog of the division. But if Berbick was the best in the division then you can't complain.

To put it bluntly, unless your undisputed, you ain't shit in my book.

Floyd Patterson who had it supposedly before Tyson won a vacant title...(The age record btw not the actual title)

Am pretty sure I could fault a lot of them, aside from maybe Ali, since the so called experts had him being destroyed by Liston.
sduck
QUOTE (anthonyaccurate @ Mar 19 2013, 05:01 AM) *
To anyone discrediting b-hop for beating cloud as it pertains to his skill level, did you discredit Tyson for beating
Berbick when he set the record as the youngest champ?

I don't think you get it. It's okay to give fighters credit where its due, but there's some obvious double standards that goes on. For example, it's real easy for people to discredit people like Alvarez or Mayweather Jr., but they don't do the same for other fighters. IIRC, people shat on Holmes and Berbick for beating up a washed up Ali, but didn't favor the same for Tyson beating up a washed up Holmes and a faulty career of Berbick. Douglas didn't even get the credit he deserved for beating Tyson.
anthonyaccurate
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 20 2013, 02:03 PM) *
Depends, where there any better champs at that weight? There was Michael Spinks and Tim Witherspoons, supposedly that Spinks was the lineal champ. So really Tyson should of fought him if he was the top dog of the division. But if Berbick was the best in the division then you can't complain.

To put it bluntly, unless your undisputed, you ain't shit in my book.

Floyd Patterson who had it supposedly before Tyson won a vacant title...(The age record btw not the actual title)

Am pretty sure I could fault a lot of them, aside from maybe Ali, since the so called experts had him being destroyed by Liston.



When have people questioned Tyson, or Foreman, etc. for the level of comp when they set their records? Nobody said Moorer was the best heavyweight on Earth when Foreman beat him, and I've never seen or heard anyone discredit Tyson for his comp when he beat Berbick.
I just give them credit and respect the accomplishment. Frankly, I cant ever think of when someone set a record for being the youngest or oldest to do something, and the comp is questioned. Its not like Bhop ducking cats....outside of Dawson, how many lhw you KNOW are beating him?
mgrover
QUOTE (anthonyaccurate @ Mar 22 2013, 03:20 AM) *
When have people questioned Tyson, or Foreman, etc. for the level of comp when they set their records? Nobody said Moorer was the best heavyweight on Earth when Foreman beat him, and I've never seen or heard anyone discredit Tyson for his comp when he beat Berbick.
I just give them credit and respect the accomplishment. Frankly, I cant ever think of when someone set a record for being the youngest or oldest to do something, and the comp is questioned. Its not like Bhop ducking cats....outside of Dawson, how many lhw you KNOW are beating him?


sure he his a very high level competitor, for his age and that is an achievement, but then he fought the best and look what happened, I thought he lost that fight pretty decisively
neophyte7
Dawson was simply better that night and style wise is a hard fight for Hopkins.. that same Dawson lost to Pascal who Hopkins beat twice.. Dawson is not the best light heavyweight.. I mean his victory over hopkins is cool yet he quit against Ward out of fear of being stopped by the hands of Ward- - even at 48 I would be willing to bet that Ward would not stop Hopkins, yet Hopkins would not go to 168 and make Ward come to 175-- calling Dawson the best just does not sound right- cannot take away from his win over Hopkins but it was not very emphatic in my view- -Hopkins still came away unscathed and lived to fight on and become a three time light heavy weight champ- who knows what Dawson will be like when he fights again. He is as mentally weak and unstable as they come--- I am sure one of the top 175ers with less skill than Hopkins could beat him on a given night because of his weak mind...
mgrover
http://www.fighthype.com/news/article14111.html

I couldnt put it better.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Mar 22 2013, 07:06 AM) *
Dawson was simply better that night and style wise is a hard fight for Hopkins.. that same Dawson lost to Pascal who Hopkins beat twice.. Dawson is not the best light heavyweight.. I mean his victory over hopkins is cool yet he quit against Ward out of fear of being stopped by the hands of Ward- - even at 48 I would be willing to bet that Ward would not stop Hopkins, yet Hopkins would not go to 168 and make Ward come to 175-- calling Dawson the best just does not sound right- cannot take away from his win over Hopkins but it was not very emphatic in my view- -Hopkins still came away unscathed and lived to fight on and become a three time light heavy weight champ- who knows what Dawson will be like when he fights again. He is as mentally weak and unstable as they come--- I am sure one of the top 175ers with less skill than Hopkins could beat him on a given night because of his weak mind...



I agree with that wholeheartedly!! Ward manhandled Dawson and people can try to make all the excuses they want about Chad being weight drained and whatnot, he wasn't and it wouldn't have mattered if that fight took place at whatever weight, the outcome still would've been the same.

FinitoElDinamita
IT's simple. Reason he's not celebrated is because he's boring as fuck.. There's nothing else to it and it's no mystery why he's not celebrated..

Fuck the snaggle tooth conman..

1. Roy

2. Toney











3. Bernard

neophyte7
[quote name='FinitoElDinamita' date='Mar 27 2013, 10:13 PM' post='576470']
IT's simple. Reason he's not celebrated is because he's boring as fuck.. There's nothing else to it and it's no mystery why he's not celebrated..



Bullshit...Someone highlighted that Lance Armstrong was celebrated and he is a cyclist... cycling is boring as hell--no fucking way Cloud - Hopkins was not a boring fight maybe boring to those who picked against hopkins it was boring to see Cloud get matadored...
BrutUalBK
QUOTE
Bullshit...Someone highlighted that Lance Armstrong was celebrated and he is a cyclist... cycling is boring as hell--no fucking way Cloud - Hopkins was not a boring fight maybe boring to those who picked against hopkins it was boring to see Cloud get matadored...




I said he was celebrated, which he was. I started this thread and I agree with you that cycling is boring, nevertheless did not Lance have commercial endorsements? Did not Lance have an entire country following him?? I love BHop as a fighter and I've never said he was boring but I'm not sure why some people seem to think that way: the fight with Pavlik was very entertaining, the fight with Trinidad was exciting, the fights with Allen were exciting, the Joppy beatdown was hellacious.

Now that I'm looking at the quote above from Dinamita I see that he's the one who is stating BHop is boring and usually you get that kind of quote from Mexicans because they want to see a guy brawl (not box, there is a difference). Back in BHop's heyday he did brawl often but he is damn near 50 and for some clown to think that a man that age is just going to stand there and go toe to toe it shows how little he/she knows of the art of boxing.

Now I'm not going to sit here and pretend that Hops did not have a few stinkers like the fight with Hakkar (Morrade was the one running) and a few others but then again, it takes two to tango so it is not all totally his fault that those fights what they were but still if you take Nard's total career he had some very exciting fights overall with a few duds in between.
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