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BrutUalBK
America is very selective at best when it comes to who we pick and chose when it comes to making celebrities, if BHop was in any other country in the world he'd be on the cover of every magazine, box of cereal, doing all the commercials and an icon to their status as a proud nation.

But in the USA, Hopkins isn't celebrated, isn't given any or very little fanfare at all. I wish I knew the reasoning for this but I guess I'd have to ask you guys here to speculate as to why this is, Lance Armstrong prior to his downfall was The Man in his native land and the only person who stood par with him are Jordan and Pacquiao.

I have a few reasons why I believe he'd never get the status he deserves in the public's persona are the following:

1. Former Felon
2. Not considered by some to be an exciting fighter
3. Boxing as a whole isn't amongst the country's most embraced sports like Football
4. He's African American (not necessarily a racial thing here) but if he were White then I believe he'd get the fanfare because white America still longs for their GWH
5. He isn't exactly pleasing to the eye (looks), the missing teeth do not help
6. In the past some took the comment he made about Joe C "never let a white boy beat me" as a racial attack and they won't live it down/let it go
7. The powers that be doesn't want an old face to be the face of this sport, they prefer the young bruiser types like Tyson

Personally, I believe he should be given more credit for what he has done and continues to do because as far as I know there isn't another dominant champion in any other sport at his age that continues to be as defiant/at the top of their league and doing it against opposition nearly half their age.

DISCUSS!!
Marcus
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 10 2013, 02:29 PM) *
America is very selective at best when it comes to who we pick and chose when it comes to making celebrities, if BHop was in any other country in the world he'd be on the cover of every magazine, box of cereal, doing all the commercials and an icon to their status as a proud nation.

But in the USA, Hopkins isn't celebrated, isn't given any or very little fanfare at all. I wish I knew the reasoning for this but I guess I'd have to ask you guys here to speculate as to why this is, Lance Armstrong prior to his downfall was The Man in his native land and the only person who stood par with him are Jordan and Pacquiao.

I have a few reasons why I believe he'd never get the status he deserves in the public's persona are the following:

1. Former Felon
2. Not considered by some to be an exciting fighter
3. Boxing as a whole isn't amongst the country's most embraced sports like Football
4. He's African American (not necessarily a racial thing here) but if he were White then I believe he'd get the fanfare because white America still longs for their GWH
5. He isn't exactly pleasing to the eye (looks), the missing teeth do not help
6. In the past some took the comment he made about Joe C "never let a white boy beat me" as a racial attack and they won't live it down/let it go
7. The powers that be doesn't want an old face to be the face of this sport, they prefer the young bruiser types like Tyson

Personally, I believe he should be given more credit for what he has done and continues to do because as far as I know there isn't another dominant champion in any other sport at his age that continues to be as defiant/at the top of their league and doing it against opposition nearly half their age.

DISCUSS!!


I believe there was a thread similar to this post before.
The over arching answer to the question: B-Hop is not white. Point. Blank. Period. That umbrellas every of the other points you mentioned. Boxing is a minority dominated sport with Hispanics and African-Americans and while Football is extremly popular in America it certainly isnt as popular as boxing worldwide. Mikkel Kessler is Huge in Denmark. The Klitchkos are huge in germany. Abraham is huge in Germany. Im sure even Golovkin is huge in Kazakstan. Here in America, its simple. B-Hop, or any other of the leading boxers for that matter are not white. Mayweather, B-Hop, Mosley, Ward, Wright, and all other up and coming boxers will never get the accolades that they deserve as long as they arent white or physically appealing to the caucasian demographic like DelaHoya was (and DelaHoya was HUGE).

As the only current gold medalist for boxing in the USA (who happened to be a FEMALE too) Im 100% certain that if Claressa Shields was white she would be HUGE. Shed be on Opra, Jimmy Kimmel, Late night talk shows. Shed be everywhere. But she isnt. Why? Simple. Shes not white/caucasian. Sure one could concede that that as an African-American gabby Douglas received accolades. However gabby douglas was only 14/15 thats what got her the praises- her age-not her talent. Im sure if Gabby doulas was older, just as claressa shields shed be in the same position.

With all the talent we have in the sport, subway had the NERVE to put some guy i have never seen or heard of before as the "boxer" within their athlete endorsers for their company. And "coincidentally" he just so happened to be white.

There are many other factors of course. However it all comes down to race.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (Marcus @ Mar 10 2013, 02:06 PM) *
I believe there was a thread similar to this post before.
The over arching answer to the question: B-Hop is not white. Point. Blank. Period. That umbrellas every of the other points you mentioned. Boxing is a minority dominated sport with Hispanics and African-Americans and while Football is extremly popular in America it certainly isnt as popular as boxing worldwide. Mikkel Kessler is Huge in Denmark. The Klitchkos are huge in germany. Abraham is huge in Germany. Im sure even Golovkin is huge in Kazakstan. Here in America, its simple. B-Hop, or any other of the leading boxers for that matter are not white. Mayweather, B-Hop, Mosley, Ward, Wright, and all other up and coming boxers will never get the accolades that they deserve as long as they arent white or physically appealing to the caucasian demographic like DelaHoya was (and DelaHoya was HUGE).

As the only current gold medalist for boxing in the USA (who happened to be a FEMALE too) Im 100% certain that if Claressa Shields was white she would be HUGE. Shed be on Opra, Jimmy Kimmel, Late night talk shows. Shed be everywhere. But she isnt. Why? Simple. Shes not white/caucasian. Sure one could concede that that as an African-American gabby Douglas received accolades. However gabby douglas was only 14/15 thats what got her the praises- her age-not her talent. Im sure if Gabby doulas was older, just as claressa shields shed be in the same position.

With all the talent we have in the sport, subway had the NERVE to put some guy i have never seen or heard of before as the "boxer" within their athlete endorsers for their company. And "coincidentally" he just so happened to be white.

There are many other factors of course. However it all comes down to race.



Wow Marcus, thanks for the insight Bro, i never really looked at all those demographics you stated about Subway and whatnot but that is totally helpful insight. It does seem to continue the old addage that "we have to be twice as good" and even then that isn't always enough.
neophyte7
Race is a factor
daprofessor
why didn't they celebrate barry bonds?

why didn't they celebrate clarressa shields?

i think you answered your own question. it's the same reason a good portion of our population is against our own president. it's sad...but nothing has really changed.
bnoles4life
He's a dick, maybe?
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Mar 10 2013, 06:58 PM) *
He's a dick, maybe?



How so? What has he done to alienate the American public so much so that it would not consider a man who has done something in history that no other has done??
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 10 2013, 03:29 PM) *
America is very selective at best when it comes to who we pick and chose when it comes to making celebrities, if BHop was in any other country in the world he'd be on the cover of every magazine, box of cereal, doing all the commercials and an icon to their status as a proud nation.

But in the USA, Hopkins isn't celebrated, isn't given any or very little fanfare at all. I wish I knew the reasoning for this but I guess I'd have to ask you guys here to speculate as to why this is, Lance Armstrong prior to his downfall was The Man in his native land and the only person who stood par with him are Jordan and Pacquiao.

I have a few reasons why I believe he'd never get the status he deserves in the public's persona are the following:

1. Former Felon
2. Not considered by some to be an exciting fighter
3. Boxing as a whole isn't amongst the country's most embraced sports like Football
4. He's African American (not necessarily a racial thing here) but if he were White then I believe he'd get the fanfare because white America still longs for their GWH5. He isn't exactly pleasing to the eye (looks), the missing teeth do not help
6. In the past some took the comment he made about Joe C "never let a white boy beat me" as a racial attack and they won't live it down/let it go
7. The powers that be doesn't want an old face to be the face of this sport, they prefer the young bruiser types like Tyson

Personally, I believe he should be given more credit for what he has done and continues to do because as far as I know there isn't another dominant champion in any other sport at his age that continues to be as defiant/at the top of their league and doing it against opposition nearly half their age.

DISCUSS!!



Thats the biggest one in my opinion. Boxing fans are not the same group of intellectuals who elected a black president. There is still a substantial amount of home teamism and racism in sports, in general. If Hopkins had been white or Mexican or Puerto rican, he'd be considered the greatest.

I also think that Blacks have been so dominant in sports for so long that its no big deal that theres a black guy whose good at sports. I think thats the general thinking. Its a big deal when you have a white guy in a spot that was previuosly dominated by blacks. Thats shit works the other way around too. Whites have dominated US politics and the office of the president. So much so that if we had a white president, its no big deal. Now that there's a black guy in the oval office, its a HUUUGE deal.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 10 2013, 11:26 PM) *
How so? What has he done to alienate the American public so much so that it would not consider a man who has done something in history that no other has done??


The whole "ain't no white boy gonna beat me" all the while cryin' the "THEY don't wanna see a brotha succeed" mantra. That's just a personal thing to me.

Seriously, America doesn't celebrate him b/c he's not really "celebratory". Meaning, he's not a casual fan-friendly fighter, boxing isn't on the perch it once was and he's not particularly appealing, aesthetic-wise (no homo--think women, here). That being said, the biggest underlying issue is, as Arum once said, "black fighters can't draw flies to sh*t". I don't believe that to be inherently true, but in BHop's case, it's pretty accurate.
neophyte7
Fuck rigid and racist jew Arum.. Hopkins had a decent crowd at the Barlays it seemed and is doing pretty good for himself--Hopkins is a great story of accomplishment and perseverance that If he were white would he the type of stuff that is showcased on OPRAH
Dolimite
Same reason why they do not celebrate: Vick (before the dog fighting), Mayweather, TO, Moss, and Kareem Abdul Jabar and a slew of other African American male athletes. They do not fit the mode of what they want an athlete to be, oh throw Allen Iverson in that mix. Jack Johnson as well. They do not do a coon show for them, they don't shuck and jive. They are up front and honest and America can not deal with that type of black man. They are too real and they may tell the truth about how the world works and they can not have that. They want to control black athletes and when one bucks the system then they are iced out. They are threatening to the establishment. Everyone has to be happy on the plantation and if one says that Masta ain't god, then there is the problem or if they do not follow Masta's rules that is another major problem or they do not tell lies and act like everything is cool then they are immediately iced out. That is why B Hopkins will not be accepted by white America, he is just too damn real!
neophyte7
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Mar 11 2013, 02:10 PM) *
Same reason why they do not celebrate: Vick (before the dog fighting), Mayweather, TO, Moss, and Kareem Abdul Jabar and a slew of other African American male athletes. They do not fit the mode of what they want an athlete to be, oh throw Allen Iverson in that mix. Jack Johnson as well. They do not do a coon show for them, they don't shuck and jive. They are up front and honest and America can not deal with that type of black man. They are too real and they may tell the truth about how the world works and they can not have that. They want to control black athletes and when one bucks the system then they are iced out. They are threatening to the establishment. Everyone has to be happy on the plantation and if one says that Masta ain't god, then there is the problem or if they do not follow Masta's rules that is another major problem or they do not tell lies and act like everything is cool then they are immediately iced out. That is why B Hopkins will be accepted by white America, he is just too damn real!




Agreed..but be careful Truth is stranger than fiction around here quite often when it comes to ole massa--- also..Hopkins is a MUSLIM.. been one for years. used to be more overt, yet has suppressed it very well the last decade or so... once you are found to be connected with any version of Islam as a Black man you are not going to be received well by the SO CALLED - dominant society
bnoles4life
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Mar 11 2013, 01:23 PM) *
Agreed..but be careful Truth is stranger than fiction around here quite often when it comes to ole massa--- also..Hopkins is a MUSLIM.. been one for years. used to be more overt, yet has suppressed it very well the last decade or so... once you are found to be connected with any version of Islam as a Black man you are not going to be received well by the SO CALLED - dominant society


Totally forgot about that tid bit....not that it should be relevant.
sduck
What in the world, how dare people here cry racism when America loved loud, outspoken, foul-mouthed black fighters like Ali and Tyson, even till this day. People loved black fighters as far back as Joe Louis and Ray Robinson eras. Race and nationality does play a factor in the sport, but to blame Hopkins' success in popularity on his race is asinine to me. Hopkins is simply not an appealing person to the masses, in the ring and outside of it.

Also, there was a headline article on MSN about Hopkins' victory over Cloud, it didn't go anywhere because he's just not appealing. He was also headlined when he beat Pascal to become the oldest man in the sport to win a title. Hopkins can't sell, never could.

Another thing, both Ali and Tyson were both proud and open about their faith in Islam, so how does that play a factor? Unless you consider how times changed and Islam is now more hated than ever...

And another, name one white fighter that was ever bigger in the sport than your known black fighters? Not a single one. Most people today can't even identify people like Willie Pep or Jake LoMatta...
Dolimite
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Mar 11 2013, 11:23 AM) *
Agreed..but be careful Truth is stranger than fiction around here quite often when it comes to ole massa--- also..Hopkins is a MUSLIM.. been one for years. used to be more overt, yet has suppressed it very well the last decade or so... once you are found to be connected with any version of Islam as a Black man you are not going to be received well by the SO CALLED - dominant society


The kid from UCLA Muhammad Shabazz the guard, Muslim and the media hates him. His family is well to do and they threw a fit because he wore a Gucci back pack to an interview they questioned he got it, his sister gave it to him. Now another kid had the same backpack but he was mixed and no one said nothing. The fact that Shabazz told Kentucky to go to hell really got them all hot and bothered. Wrong faith again look at Kareem. Can't get a coaching job but yet PJ Carlismo is coaching!!!!

QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 11 2013, 03:39 PM) *
What in the world, how dare people here cry racism when America loved loud, outspoken, foul-mouthed black fighters like Ali and Tyson, even till this day. People loved black fighters as far back as Joe Louis and Ray Robinson eras. Race and nationality does play a factor in the sport, but to blame Hopkins' success in popularity on his race is asinine to me. Hopkins is simply not an appealing person to the masses, in the ring and outside of it.

Also, there was a headline article on MSN about Hopkins' victory over Cloud, it didn't go anywhere because he's just not appealing. He was also headlined when he beat Pascal to become the oldest man in the sport to win a title. Hopkins can't sell, never could.

Another thing, both Ali and Tyson were both proud and open about their faith in Islam, so how does that play a factor? Unless you consider how times changed and Islam is now more hated than ever...

They like loud ignorant black athletes! See Charles Barkley and Steven A Smith. They hated Tyson while he was boxing and hated Ali while he was boxing. On recently have they changed their tune. Many people felt Mike Tyson should had been committed and they wanted to kill Ali. It wasn't until Mike calm down and stared in the Hangover before the world showed him love and society finally saw how amazing a person Ali was way after his career was over.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE
QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 11 2013, 04:39 PM) *
What in the world, how dare people here cry racism when America loved loud, outspoken, foul-mouthed black fighters like Ali and Tyson, even till this day. People loved black fighters as far back as Joe Louis and Ray Robinson eras. Race and nationality does play a factor in the sport, but to blame Hopkins' success in popularity on his race is asinine to me. Hopkins is simply not an appealing person to the masses, in the ring and outside of it.

Also, there was a headline article on MSN about Hopkins' victory over Cloud, it didn't go anywhere because he's just not appealing. He was also headlined when he beat Pascal to become the oldest man in the sport to win a title. Hopkins can't sell, never could.

Another thing, both Ali and Tyson were both proud and open about their faith in Islam, so how does that play a factor? Unless you consider how times changed and Islam is now more hated than ever...

And another, name one white fighter that was ever bigger in the sport than your known black fighters? Not a single one. Most people today can't even identify people like Willie Pep or Jake LoMatta...





Rocky Marciano
mrchitown
He's a talented black man that isn't a slave to the system and says and does what he wants. Of course America doesn't campaign for him, but he always gets the last laugh
mrchitown
QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 11 2013, 04:39 PM) *
What in the world, how dare people here cry racism when America loved loud, outspoken, foul-mouthed black fighters like Ali and Tyson, even till this day. People loved black fighters as far back as Joe Louis and Ray Robinson eras. Race and nationality does play a factor in the sport, but to blame Hopkins' success in popularity on his race is asinine to me. Hopkins is simply not an appealing person to the masses, in the ring and outside of it.

Also, there was a headline article on MSN about Hopkins' victory over Cloud, it didn't go anywhere because he's just not appealing. He was also headlined when he beat Pascal to become the oldest man in the sport to win a title. Hopkins can't sell, never could.

Another thing, both Ali and Tyson were both proud and open about their faith in Islam, so how does that play a factor? Unless you consider how times changed and Islam is now more hated than ever...

And another, name one white fighter that was ever bigger in the sport than your known black fighters? Not a single one. Most people today can't even identify people like Willie Pep or Jake LoMatta...


I guess I didn't get the memo that Ali and Tyson were loved when they were fighting. Them 2 were ridiculed, belittled and everything in between when they were fighting. They came out and championed Tyson, then when he seemed indestructible they turned on him and called him an animal. he's just now getting the love from "America" that he should've been getting all along

If Ali was so loved then why did the mainstream applaud and cheer against him when he fought and lost to Frazier in their 1st fight. Ali is another fighter who wasn't loved til years later

Joe Louis? Look what they did to him, remember they told him in order for him to get a shot he had to not do what Jack Johnson did and he was to act and be a certain way in the public. If that's love then I don't want it. How the f*ck you figure they loved Joe Louis when the papers always referred to him with those racist nicknames? They put him together and they busted him out. Look how he died, dude didn't have nothing. F*ck that, you got a funny definition of love.
bnoles4life
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 11 2013, 07:32 PM) *
I guess I didn't get the memo that Ali and Tyson were loved when they were fighting. Them 2 were ridiculed, belittled and everything in between when they were fighting. They came out and championed Tyson, then when he seemed indestructible they turned on him and called him an animal. he's just now getting the love from "America" that he should've been getting all along

If Ali was so loved then why did the mainstream applaud and cheer against him when he fought and lost to Frazier in their 1st fight. Ali is another fighter who wasn't loved til years later

Joe Louis? Look what they did to him, remember they told him in order for him to get a shot he had to not do what Jack Johnson did and he was to act and be a certain way in the public. If that's love then I don't want it. How the f*ck you figure they loved Joe Louis when the papers always referred to him with those racist nicknames? They put him together and they busted him out. Look how he died, dude didn't have nothing. F*ck that, you got a funny definition of love.



To be fair, America turned on Mike when it was revealed that he allegedly committed two taboos: Domestic violence w/ Robin Givens and rape w/ Desiree Washington. No matter how we feel about the accusations, can't really use Mike as an example when he has those two on his docket.
neophyte7
[quote name='Dolimite' date='Mar 11 2013, 06:48 PM' post='575472']
The kid from UCLA Muhammad Shabazz the guard, Muslim and the media hates him.

mmmmmm... The zionist/racist media will forever be uncomfortable with the names Muhammad and Shabazz---
sduck
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Mar 11 2013, 05:48 PM) *
They like loud ignorant black athletes! See Charles Barkley and Steven A Smith. They hated Tyson while he was boxing and hated Ali while he was boxing. On recently have they changed their tune. Many people felt Mike Tyson should had been committed and they wanted to kill Ali. It wasn't until Mike calm down and stared in the Hangover before the world showed him love and society finally saw how amazing a person Ali was way after his career was over.

This makes no kind of sense...

QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 11 2013, 06:56 PM) *
[/b][/size]



Rocky Marciano

So when was he ever bigger than your top black fighters?

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 11 2013, 07:32 PM) *
I guess I didn't get the memo that Ali and Tyson were loved when they were fighting. Them 2 were ridiculed, belittled and everything in between when they were fighting. They came out and championed Tyson, then when he seemed indestructible they turned on him and called him an animal. he's just now getting the love from "America" that he should've been getting all along

If Ali was so loved then why did the mainstream applaud and cheer against him when he fought and lost to Frazier in their 1st fight. Ali is another fighter who wasn't loved til years later

Joe Louis? Look what they did to him, remember they told him in order for him to get a shot he had to not do what Jack Johnson did and he was to act and be a certain way in the public. If that's love then I don't want it. How the f*ck you figure they loved Joe Louis when the papers always referred to him with those racist nicknames? They put him together and they busted him out. Look how he died, dude didn't have nothing. F*ck that, you got a funny definition of love.

lol, of course they get criticized, they do it to themselves. Thuggish behavior is not acceptable in the professional world no matter how you look at it, its not just in the white man's world, its in anyone's. All these fighters were still acknowledged and at the top of the game in popularity. Race is not an excuse for Hopkins not being known.
Dolimite
QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 11 2013, 06:31 PM) *
This makes no kind of sense...


So when was he ever bigger than your top black fighters?


lol, of course they get criticized, they do it to themselves. Thuggish behavior is not acceptable in the professional world no matter how you look at it, its not just in the white man's world, its in anyone's. All these fighters were still acknowledged and at the top of the game in popularity. Race is not an excuse for Hopkins not being known.

Explain to me why this doesn't make sense?

They love: Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan (he didn't stand for shit), RGIII (because he doesn't think race is a problem and he is happy on the plantation), Shane Mosley ( He is the good negro), Tiger Woods (he is canibi some bullshit, has no identity to black culture so they love that).

They hate the Williams sister because they do not apologize for who they are or where they come from. They hate and do mean hate Floyd because he is a Loud mouth can back up his skills and when he speaks about race problems he is dead on. I do not agree with everything Floyd says but I can tell you has spoken the truth. I do not know your nationality but you can not tell a black person what is racist and what is not. I lived this life for two decades and a half and I can tell you the shit is real. By the way, they hated LeBrone because he did not fall into their trap. When he left Cleveland you thought he escaped from the plantation (which he did) and they will never forgive him for that, now they have no choice but to respect him because he is backing up his skills.
daprofessor
i think more than anything....bhop is not someone the main stream will NOT touch because he went against the grain throughout his career. he did not allow himself to be exploited by the big name promoters. he always did things on his own terms and he's successful despite all that. add to that....yes, he is an ex con....yes, he calls himself the executioner....but probably the biggest reason he doesn't get the support or acclaim he deserves is because the masses....including the powers that be....DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BOXING!!!!

it's that simple.

mrchitown
QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 11 2013, 07:31 PM) *
This makes no kind of sense...


So when was he ever bigger than your top black fighters?


lol, of course they get criticized, they do it to themselves. Thuggish behavior is not acceptable in the professional world no matter how you look at it, its not just in the white man's world, its in anyone's. All these fighters were still acknowledged and at the top of the game in popularity. Race is not an excuse for Hopkins not being known.


I agree, it's too many of those and it's unfortunate that some are in sports

And true it's not an excuse for him not being known but I do believe it's one of the reasons
mrchitown
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Mar 11 2013, 06:40 PM) *
To be fair, America turned on Mike when it was revealed that he allegedly committed two taboos: Domestic violence w/ Robin Givens and rape w/ Desiree Washington. No matter how we feel about the accusations, can't really use Mike as an example when he has those two on his docket.


When he caught the rape charge is when sh*t hit the fan, wen he did that mess to Givens I don't recall too many up in arms about it. After all, look how she embarrassed him on national television....And you can't exclude him for that. If that's the case then many black athletes should be excluded. He was a part of the same things many of these athletes were in regards to the way he was perceived and the way he was eventually treated

Part of the reason he got the backlash from those 2 situations is that he kept winning. It's funny how the people build you up but over time they want to see you fail.....and then they'll shower you with endless affection. Tyson is a perfect example of this. So is Vick. These idiots care more about dogs then getting guns off the streets and implementing programs for the community.
sduck
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Mar 11 2013, 08:51 PM) *
Explain to me why this doesn't make sense?

They love: Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan (he didn't stand for shit), RGIII (because he doesn't think race is a problem and he is happy on the plantation), Shane Mosley ( He is the good negro), Tiger Woods (he is canibi some bullshit, has no identity to black culture so they love that).

They hate the Williams sister because they do not apologize for who they are or where they come from. They hate and do mean hate Floyd because he is a Loud mouth can back up his skills and when he speaks about race problems he is dead on. I do not agree with everything Floyd says but I can tell you has spoken the truth. I do not know your nationality but you can not tell a black person what is racist and what is not. I lived this life for two decades and a half and I can tell you the shit is real. By the way, they hated LeBrone because he did not fall into their trap. When he left Cleveland you thought he escaped from the plantation (which he did) and they will never forgive him for that, now they have no choice but to respect him because he is backing up his skills.

Because you said, "They like loud ignorant black athletes!" and then continued... but I see what you're saying now... I'm a black man, and believe me I know racism is very real and still very alive today. I just don't agree with race being such an issue for Hopkins, at least it not being a big issue. There's not enough evidence to suggest it is, and it's evident that it isn't, based off the success of many other black fighters and the non-success of white, hispanic, and the like, of fighters.

QUOTE (daprofessor @ Mar 11 2013, 09:04 PM) *
i think more than anything....bhop is not someone the main stream will NOT touch because he went against the grain throughout his career. he did not allow himself to be exploited by the big name promoters. he always did things on his own terms and he's successful despite all that. add to that....yes, he is an ex con....yes, he calls himself the executioner....but probably the biggest reason he doesn't get the support or acclaim he deserves is because the masses....including the powers that be....DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BOXING!!!!

it's that simple.

lol I guess thats a way of putting it, but he for some reason is just not appealing to the masses. He's had plenty of opportunity to be popular in and outside of the sport, but was overshadowed by people like Roy Jones in their prime, fought in an unpopular weight division, and is proven to just not be oh-so appealing, even after defeating De La Hoya, and ending De La Hoya's reign in the spotlight, Hopkins recognition was still somewhat mute.
The Original MrFactor
I sat and thought about this one for a few days. I think someone nailed it above. After reading everyones responses. I think its that Bernard isnt appealing to women. To his peeps, he's a handsome guy and kind and generous. To the rest of the world, who would is easier on the eyes?? DLH or Hopkins? Ali or Hopkins?

I think we are rapped up in a phyical world where people are defined by their looks. If Hopkins looked like Donny LaLonde, he'd be a matinee superstar. he'd be the David Cassidy of boxing. If Donny LaLonde had beaten Ray Leonard, we'd still be talking about that legend to this day. It aint that way though. Hops got strikes against him. He's black, he's not gonna bring soccor moms to the sport and he doesnt articulate well at times. Think of all those things in terms of DLH. He white(I know of Mexican decent), he's every soccor mom's ideal prom date, he's articulate. Those things have meaning when trying to bring someone to a mainstream audience. Who will resonate with mainstream America, Justin Timberlake or DMX? Who would Sarah Palin pick??
Cshel86
QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 11 2013, 06:39 PM) *
What in the world, how dare people here cry racism when America loved loud, outspoken, foul-mouthed black fighters like Ali and Tyson, even till this day.

People loved them AFTER they hit rock bottom, and more than likely, that "love" that they show them, is from pure guilt for all of the nasty shit that they said about them while they were on top of their game.

Ali is damn near the poster child for Parkinson's disease, and why isn't Michael J. Fox the poster child? It's a weird way of looking at it, but I believe people "uplift" Ali and condition, because he's still suffering. Michael J. Fox doesn't seem to be doing all that bad nowadays, but Ali on the other hand...

No matter how much shit Tyson did back in the day, I believe most can stand up and say that Mike is a real dude. The stuff that he expresses nowadays, most men wouldn't even admit. When he seemed dangerous and mentally unstable, they had everything in the world to say about him, but now that he has this pleasant demeanor, people are clamoring over his presence and so on.

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 11 2013, 08:25 PM) *
He's a talented black man that isn't a slave to the system and says and does what he wants. Of course America doesn't campaign for him, but he always gets the last laugh

I believe that anybody that refuses to fall in line, and decides to do things their way, usually catches hell. Stuff like that takes courage, along with knowing that you'll receive some backlash and probably wont get paid for a while.

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 11 2013, 11:15 PM) *
These idiots care more about dogs then getting guns off the streets and implementing programs for the community.

Now if we want to talk about something, THAT'S what needs to be discussed. It takes an incident like Sandy Hook Elementary or Columbine High School, to make people spew out some fear-driven mumbo jumbo about gun control. Funny thing is, nobody is saying shit about these daily death deaths in Chicago and so on.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE
So when was he ever bigger than your top black fighters?


First of all, they are not MY top black fighters. Second, Marciano is still bigger than all of them. Let me explain; you are confusing popularity with boxing. In terms of boxing none of them have did what RM has done and therefore there are none who have surpassed him, examine what happened with Babe Ruth and then compare it to when Bonds outsted his record.

Sure Ali and Tyson were more well-known especially in recent times and that is due to the modern day we live in and how the media is broadcasted around the world and that makes them more popular but in terms of the sport of boxing they still did not superseed RM/his PERFECT record of 50-0 and until anyone does then he is touted as the absolute best in this sport.

Now you may not believe it but that argument happens in the USA a lot more than you think especially if you debate with someone who can still remember him (RM) from his days of perfection in this sport. Ali wasn't big so much so for what he did in the ring, it was his political stance/statements against the Vietnam War that gained him his worldwide fame/popularity, Tyson was popular initially because he KO'd many of his opponents in devastating fashion but as his competition got better he gained fame from his antics outside of the ring and as well as the earbiting incident and not because of what he did in the sport.

All we need to do here is to stop looking at the man and look at the achievement, being the oldest man to capture a Championship should be the focus and no matter who did that it in itself should make them an instant celebrity regardless if you liked their boxing style or not. Sure Hopkins isn't pretty, sure he has a big mouth, sure some of his fights may be dull but at the end of the day he has done what no other has done in this sport and that alone should give him the fanfare he deserves whether you love him or hate him.
pacco_diablo
IMO, race does play a small part in it. Mostly from the perspective (here in America) that because he's a black athlete he's almost expected to be a better athlete. White American boxers are considered inferior and the track record and history of the sport show why, especially within boxing today. It's like when Jason Sehorn started to become a big name for the New York Giants. He was considered an anomaly because he was a fast white corner back, a positioned dominated by black athletes, but then he got hurt and fell off the face of the planet. So race does play a part in the sense that people are usually ok with rooting for underdogs, aka white american boxers.

However...

Here are other reasons why Hopkins isnt celebrated the way he should be.

1 - He has losses. If he was undefeated or only had 1 -2 losses then he would be celebrated. Regardless if he has never been knocked out or not. In the end a loss is a loss. This is what dropped the great Roy Jones from the top of the boxing world. This is also what is keeping Mayweather at the top.

2 - personality. He's not as likable as George Foreman. He's not as cocky as Ali, Tyson or RJJ and Americans love an over confident/controversial figure.

3 - fighting style. So many of his big fights have been too strategic for the casual fan to find exciting. It's usually when the public eye has left him that he breaks out of his usual style and fights the way that 'fans' like to watch.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (pacco_diablo @ Mar 12 2013, 10:00 AM) *
IMO, race does play a small part in it. Mostly from the perspective (here in America) that because he's a black athlete he's almost expected to be a better athlete. White American boxers are considered inferior and the track record and history of the sport show why, especially within boxing today. It's like when Jason Sehorn started to become a big name for the New York Giants. He was considered an anomaly because he was a fast white corner back, a positioned dominated by black athletes, but then he got hurt and fell off the face of the planet. So race does play a part in the sense that people are usually ok with rooting for underdogs, aka white american boxers.

However...

Here are other reasons why Hopkins isnt celebrated the way he should be.

1 - He has losses. If he was undefeated or only had 1 -2 losses then he would be celebrated. Regardless if he has never been knocked out or not. In the end a loss is a loss. This is what dropped the great Roy Jones from the top of the boxing world. This is also what is keeping Mayweather at the top.

2 - personality. He's not as likable as George Foreman. He's not as cocky as Ali, Tyson or RJJ and Americans love an over confident/controversial figure.

3 - fighting style. So many of his big fights have been too strategic for the casual fan to find exciting. It's usually when the public eye has left him that he breaks out of his usual style and fights the way that 'fans' like to watch.



Again, we are getting sidetrack with the race thing a bit but aside from that it is the accomplishment that should get him the noteriety he deserves whether he has had losses or not. What he has done hasn't ever been done in this sport, that alone stands by itself and irregardless of what color/race/nationality he is or whoever would've accomplished this feat it should automatically guarantee that person the fame they deserve.

When it comes to achievements it's not about how many times you failed in the past, Michael Jordan failed far more than he succeeded but he is still known for being a winner, many sports figures have lost far more than they've had success so are we to strip them of their noteriety because they had those failures?? (rhetorical).

mrchitown
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 12 2013, 07:25 AM) *
I believe that anybody that refuses to fall in line, and decides to do things their way, usually catches hell. Stuff like that takes courage, along with knowing that you'll receive some backlash and probably wont get paid for a while.


Now if we want to talk about something, THAT'S what needs to be discussed. It takes an incident like Sandy Hook Elementary or Columbine High School, to make people spew out some fear-driven mumbo jumbo about gun control. Funny thing is, nobody is saying shit about these daily death deaths in Chicago and so on.


100% agree, when you go against the status quo, and this is regardless of race....you will be ridiculed to the best of those people/companies/system etc degree. The system doesn't like to have it's balance of power upset and in sports, people like Hopkins have no problem tipping those scales

Hopkins, Floyd, Tyson, Ali...all these fighters have spoken out about issues at one time or another and they've all touched on their racial decent in regards to how their viewed in the sport. Is that a coincidence? I think not, they KNOW what time it is. Hell, Hopkins speaks on it every chance he gets. He brought it up in that ESPN article that was done on him not that long ago....Go look at comments under these guys' fights and I bet you in each one you'll find at least 3 or 4 racial remarks. I applaud what Hopkins is doing because not only is he breaking down barriers, he's using the platform that he finally has gotten to speak out on things, and not just race. I loved how in the post-fight presser how he championed the importance of reducing obesity and living the right way.

And I'd be lying if I said that another reason he's not glorified is because of his style of fighting. Early on in his career he seemed to be right on track but when he went more defensive and technician, it was hard to watch for some. Defense wins championships but offense sells tickets and that's what most care about


And they won't say anything about it because once again the system is being undermined and dictated by these corporations. In this case the NRA. But now that Mike Vick owns a dog, everyone is up in arms about it and wants to make some BS statements. But they rally against him but they don't rally for the murders that's happening on the southside of Chicago, or the war between latinos and blacks in LA. But when those precious white kids were killed, look what happened. We have taken strides in regards to race relations but to say that it doesn't play a factor. I question any one who says that and their motives behind saying it
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 12 2013, 06:32 PM) *
100% agree, when you go against the status quo, and this is regardless of race....you will be ridiculed to the best of those people/companies/system etc degree. The system doesn't like to have it's balance of power upset and in sports, people like Hopkins have no problem tipping those scales

Hopkins, Floyd, Tyson, Ali...all these fighters have spoken out about issues at one time or another and they've all touched on their racial decent in regards to how their viewed in the sport. Is that a coincidence? I think not, they KNOW what time it is. Hell, Hopkins speaks on it every chance he gets. He brought it up in that ESPN article that was done on him not that long ago....Go look at comments under these guys' fights and I bet you in each one you'll find at least 3 or 4 racial remarks. I applaud what Hopkins is doing because not only is he breaking down barriers, he's using the platform that he finally has gotten to speak out on things, and not just race. I loved how in the post-fight presser how he championed the importance of reducing obesity and living the right way.

And I'd be lying if I said that another reason he's not glorified is because of his style of fighting. Early on in his career he seemed to be right on track but when he went more defensive and technician, it was hard to watch for some. Defense wins championships but offense sells tickets and that's what most care about


And they won't say anything about it because once again the system is being undermined and dictated by these corporations. In this case the NRA. But now that Mike Vick owns a dog, everyone is up in arms about it and wants to make some BS statements. But they rally against him but they don't rally for the murders that's happening on the southside of Chicago, or the war between latinos and blacks in LA. But when those precious white kids were killed, look what happened. We have taken strides in regards to race relations but to say that it doesn't play a factor. I question any one who says that and their motives behind saying it



+1
WolfishPromistah
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 12 2013, 10:24 AM) *
... All we need to do here is to stop looking at the man and look at the achievement, being the oldest man to capture a Championship should be the focus and no matter who did that it in itself should make them an instant celebrity regardless if you liked their boxing style or not. Sure Hopkins isn't pretty, sure he has a big mouth, sure some of his fights may be dull but at the end of the day he has done what no other has done in this sport and that alone should give him the fanfare he deserves whether you love him or hate him.


^^^
AND "That!" -- ladies and gentlemen...is the WHOLE thing in the nutshell smile.gif
Moreover, in the vain of what BrutUalBK says, take what some wished to do to O.J. (for what could be considered the least amount of 'getback' on the issue regarding the murder of Simpson's wife, Nicole, and Ron Goldman): Some people "actually" wanted to take away the Heisman trophy Simpson had rightfully won years earlier, as if his past accomplishments did not establish that he deserved the thing in the first place. Oh, if those revenge seekers could have they'd have rewritten history on it all, with that move, in any way to deprive even time itself of celebrating that man in the slightest way possible.

It's not that people would not have seen taking the trophy "back" as a bogus move -- it's "just" the issue the attempt was made, that it was even suggested to be done in the first place. 'Best believe some would have if they could have (nodding); it's how ... "petty" history has seemed to show things can go -- for some more consistently than for others.
sduck
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 12 2013, 08:25 AM) *
People loved them AFTER they hit rock bottom, and more than likely, that "love" that they show them, is from pure guilt for all of the nasty shit that they said about them while they were on top of their game.

Ali is damn near the poster child for Parkinson's disease, and why isn't Michael J. Fox the poster child? It's a weird way of looking at it, but I believe people "uplift" Ali and condition, because he's still suffering. Michael J. Fox doesn't seem to be doing all that bad nowadays, but Ali on the other hand...

No matter how much shit Tyson did back in the day, I believe most can stand up and say that Mike is a real dude. The stuff that he expresses nowadays, most men wouldn't even admit. When he seemed dangerous and mentally unstable, they had everything in the world to say about him, but now that he has this pleasant demeanor, people are clamoring over his presence and so on.

That's another thing some people do, that's just a natural evil of people.

Muhammad Ali and Michael J. Fox are not even the same kind of people. Fox is nothing more than an actor. Ali is a fighter, a sports Icon. People naturally have more sympathy for Ali because his recognition his greater.

QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 12 2013, 09:24 AM) *
First of all, they are not MY top black fighters. Second, Marciano is still bigger than all of them. Let me explain; you are confusing popularity with boxing. In terms of boxing none of them have did what RM has done and therefore there are none who have surpassed him, examine what happened with Babe Ruth and then compare it to when Bonds outsted his record.

Sure Ali and Tyson were more well-known especially in recent times and that is due to the modern day we live in and how the media is broadcasted around the world and that makes them more popular but in terms of the sport of boxing they still did not superseed RM/his PERFECT record of 50-0 and until anyone does then he is touted as the absolute best in this sport.

Now you may not believe it but that argument happens in the USA a lot more than you think especially if you debate with someone who can still remember him (RM) from his days of perfection in this sport. Ali wasn't big so much so for what he did in the ring, it was his political stance/statements against the Vietnam War that gained him his worldwide fame/popularity, Tyson was popular initially because he KO'd many of his opponents in devastating fashion but as his competition got better he gained fame from his antics outside of the ring and as well as the earbiting incident and not because of what he did in the sport.

All we need to do here is to stop looking at the man and look at the achievement, being the oldest man to capture a Championship should be the focus and no matter who did that it in itself should make them an instant celebrity regardless if you liked their boxing style or not. Sure Hopkins isn't pretty, sure he has a big mouth, sure some of his fights may be dull but at the end of the day he has done what no other has done in this sport and that alone should give him the fanfare he deserves whether you love him or hate him.

I wasn't literally saying your favorites, I was saying people in general. Uh what, this is based on popularity. People like Ali and Tyson were popular fighters because of their antics in and outside of the sport. Rocky Marciano was never that popular of a fighter, people only mention him because of his undefeated record as a heavyweight. He's usually nothing more than a name that some people try to use for argument sake, whether to compare to other fighters, or to uplift themselves (white-Italian pride).

People will never be rightfully appreciated as a whole. Most people that acknowledge boxing are nothing more but casual fans, who react to what little with what they know.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 13 2013, 04:47 AM) *
That's another thing some people do, that's just a natural evil of people.

Muhammad Ali and Michael J. Fox are not even the same kind of people. Fox is nothing more than an actor. Ali is a fighter, a sports Icon. People naturally have more sympathy for Ali because his recognition his greater.


I wasn't literally saying your favorites, I was saying people in general. Uh what, this is based on popularity. People like Ali and Tyson were popular fighters because of their antics in and outside of the sport. Rocky Marciano was never that popular of a fighter, people only mention him because of his undefeated record as a heavyweight. He's usually nothing more than a name that some people try to use for argument sake, whether to compare to other fighters, or to uplift themselves (white-Italian pride).

People will never be rightfully appreciated as a whole. Most people that acknowledge boxing are nothing more but casual fans, who react to what little with what they know.


Again, I believe you are getting caught up in this "Popularity" issue, this isn't about popularity-it's about achievement!! Regardless of how BHop fought in the past or how he fights now and even the things he's stated or whether or not people like him or not; it should be about the achievement alone. In regards to Rocky Marciano is exactly what I'm thinking, sure Rocky wasn't popular but based what he was able to achieve he is still celebrated and often his name come up in comparison to the HWs and many in boxing for having the perfect record.

Why is it that his (Marciano's) perfect record still being thrown up in people's faces whenever we speak of the best HWs or the best in boxing? It is simple, because of his achievement, not because the way he fought or the things he said/didn't say and because his skin happens to be white. Whether or not we chose to accept those as valid reasons or not the facts remain undisputed.
neophyte7
Overall Hopkin's achievements are like a giant next a flea in comparison to marciano's.. What he is doing beyong 45 is legendary and will not be duplicated many times as long as the earth spins on its axis
sduck
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 13 2013, 08:01 AM) *
Again, I believe you are getting caught up in this "Popularity" issue, this isn't about popularity-it's about achievement!! Regardless of how BHop fought in the past or how he fights now and even the things he's stated or whether or not people like him or not; it should be about the achievement alone. In regards to Rocky Marciano is exactly what I'm thinking, sure Rocky wasn't popular but based what he was able to achieve he is still celebrated and often his name come up in comparison to the HWs and many in boxing for having the perfect record.

Why is it that his (Marciano's) perfect record still being thrown up in people's faces whenever we speak of the best HWs or the best in boxing? It is simple, because of his achievement, not because the way he fought or the things he said/didn't say and because his skin happens to be white. Whether or not we chose to accept those as valid reasons or not the facts remain undisputed.

lol, I thought that's what this thread was about. Why isn't Hopkins popular and celebrated for what he's achieved? And people here are giving you that answer. Most people do not solely look at a fighter's record to give them recognition. Most fighters were popular and celebrated because they were appealing in and outside of the ring. Hopkins is not. Rocky Marciano is only sometimes a favorable mention because of his undefeated record; in which I further stated people often like to compare him to other undefeated fighters for arguments sake, or use him for white-Italian pride.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 13 2013, 07:06 PM) *
lol, I thought that's what this thread was about. Why isn't Hopkins popular and celebrated for what he's achieved? And people here are giving you that answer. Most people do not solely look at a fighter's record to give them recognition. Most fighters were popular and celebrated because they were appealing in and outside of the ring. Hopkins is not. Rocky Marciano is only sometimes a favorable mention because of his undefeated record.



Again, it seems we are agreeing about Marciano's celebrity status being carried on because of his record but somehow Hopkins' is being overlooked even though we're only talking about the record/achievement and not necessarily the man.

I believe in years down the road once people begin to forget about Hopkins' ways, style of fighting or atleast the fights they called "boring" that he'll be more celebrated for his achievements and not solely on who he is perceived to be.
mgrover
I do have a fault with both the people he fought to become the oldest, they weren't up to par and certainly weren't the best in the division.

I mean while Pascal beat Dawson to effectively make him the best, he beat the worst of Dawson, and Cloud is a prospect with a belt
neophyte7
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 13 2013, 08:55 PM) *
I do have a fault with both the people he fought to become the oldest, they weren't up to par and certainly weren't the best in the division.

I mean while Pascal beat Dawson to effectively make him the best, he beat the worst of Dawson, and Cloud is a prospect with a belt




Respectfully Mr. Grover---Bullshit.. the man is damned near 50....those men are among the best in the division and the old man beat them hands down- No telling when Hop leaves when you will ever see duplicated what he has done
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 13 2013, 06:55 PM) *
I do have a fault with both the people he fought to become the oldest, they weren't up to par and certainly weren't the best in the division.

I mean while Pascal beat Dawson to effectively make him the best, he beat the worst of Dawson, and Cloud is a prospect with a belt


So who is it that he's is/was supposed to fight? You can make a case for many ATG's fighting far worse competition then him. He fights at 175 and he's beating belt holders and solid young champions. Cloud seems like a prospect to some, though not me. But blame that on his shitty promoter.

What he's done is something to truly marvel at and it will NEVER be done again and if by chance it does none of us will be around to see it. The man has 6 losses and truthfully only 3( his 1st pro fight, the 1st RJJ fight and the Dawson rematch) of the 6 can't be disputed

He's the greatest of his era of boxers. None of them could do what he's doing now. Not RJJ, not Toney, and definitely not Calzaghe
neophyte7
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 13 2013, 09:49 PM) *
So who is it that he's is/was supposed to fight? You can make a case for many ATG's fighting far worse competition then him. He fights at 175 and he's beating belt holders and solid young champions. Cloud seems like a prospect to some, though not me. But blame that on his shitty promoter.

What he's done is something to truly marvel at and it will NEVER be done again and if by chance it does none of us will be around to see it. The man has 6 losses and truthfully only 3( his 1st pro fight, the 1st RJJ fight and the Dawson rematch) of the 6 can't be disputed

He's the greatest of his era of boxers. None of them could do what he's doing now. Not RJJ, not Toney, and definitely not Calzaghe



I hate to agree with a CHITOWN MOFO-- fuck.gif but you are dead on LMAO!!! Floyd Mayweather is not the greatest of this era.. Hopkins is. I am sure RJJ keeps going because he says to himself, "Damned, Bernard's career is beginning to make mines look sub par"... LOL

mrchitown
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Mar 14 2013, 11:56 AM) *
I hate to agree with a CHITOWN MOFO-- fuck.gif but you are dead on LMAO!!! Floyd Mayweather is not the greatest of this era.. Hopkins is. I am sure RJJ keeps going because he says to himself, "Damned, Bernard's career is beginning to make mines look sub par"... LOL


The feeling is mutual Detroit lol

When I hear people say who's the best of the era. The only two I consider are Floyd and Hopkins. But when you look at the competition and the way Hopkins did it, it's almost undeniable that he embodies all the qualities and accomplished all the things to fit that criteria
mgrover
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Mar 14 2013, 01:15 AM) *
Respectfully Mr. Grover---Bullshit.. the man is damned near 50....those men are among the best in the division and the old man beat them hands down- No telling when Hop leaves when you will ever see duplicated what he has done


Am looking at it like this, Dawson was easily the best 175lber loss to Pascal or not. Hopkins didn't beat the best in that division for the belt, he beat the second, maybe third best guy in the division. I hate to say it since I have massive amounts of respect for Hopkins. But he can't just have a pass because of his age. Just like someone can't have a pass that agreed to certain weight stipulations. If he beat Dawson I would of given him full credit for it, as he would of been the best 175lber
mgrover
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 14 2013, 01:49 AM) *
So who is it that he's is/was supposed to fight? You can make a case for many ATG's fighting far worse competition then him. He fights at 175 and he's beating belt holders and solid young champions. Cloud seems like a prospect to some, though not me. But blame that on his shitty promoter.

What he's done is something to truly marvel at and it will NEVER be done again and if by chance it does none of us will be around to see it. The man has 6 losses and truthfully only 3( his 1st pro fight, the 1st RJJ fight and the Dawson rematch) of the 6 can't be disputed

He's the greatest of his era of boxers. None of them could do what he's doing now. Not RJJ, not Toney, and definitely not Calzaghe


Dawson was the best in that division and look at what happened to Hopkins when he fought him. The belt was returned to its rightful owner.
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 14 2013, 04:48 PM) *
Dawson was the best in that division and look at what happened to Hopkins when he fought him. The belt was returned to its rightful owner.


You can't penalize him for that. He lost to Dawson but he beat the man who beat Dawson. I don't wanna hear that bullshit about Dawson not being at his best. He's notoriously mentally weak at points and doesn't show up at times, so how do you give him a pass for not doing what he's paid to do but down some other fighter for going out and doing what few thought he actually would do? Doesn't make sense. His age is always a factor, and he broke a record because of his age. Can't separate that from him or his legacy. He's doing things that none of us will live to see duplicated. I bet you Dawson don't fight til that age. If he takes a couple more ass whoppings it's over for him
mgrover
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 14 2013, 11:13 PM) *
You can't penalize him for that. He lost to Dawson but he beat the man who beat Dawson. I don't wanna hear that bullshit about Dawson not being at his best. He's notoriously mentally weak at points and doesn't show up at times, so how do you give him a pass for not doing what he's paid to do but down some other fighter for going out and doing what few thought he actually would do? Doesn't make sense. His age is always a factor, and he broke a record because of his age. Can't separate that from him or his legacy. He's doing things that none of us will live to see duplicated. I bet you Dawson don't fight til that age. If he takes a couple more ass whoppings it's over for him


nah Dawson lost fair and square. Am not denying that he'll still beating people at a high level. But it's just so much easier to do now. Compared to then
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 14 2013, 05:17 PM) *
nah Dawson lost fair and square. Am not denying that he'll still beating people at a high level. But it's just so much easier to do now. Compared to then


Easier for who?
mgrover
Hopkins obviously, I mean he beat Cloud to win the IBF title, but realistically Cloud was the weakest of LHW champions.
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