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Full Version: How do you definitively BEAT bernard Hopkins?
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The Original MrFactor
We've never seen Bernard Hopkins definitively beaten. Chad Dawson and maybe Calzaghe gave him his worst beatings in recent years. Both of those losses werent beatings by any stretch. They were both close and competitive fights. How do you beat Hopkins 117 - 111 or wider? Or better yet, how would someone go in and STOP hopkins. I know a lot of fighters and trainers peruse the board, gimme some of your expert opinion and insight.
mitukczuk
Good question. I think it would take someone with an exceptional stamina and godlike workrate to beat Hopkins decisively and to BEAT him up. I don't think speed is necessarily a key, but a good jab and AT LEAST 60 punches per round with mean intentions. I think the likes of Marvelous Marvin Hagler would give him all he could handle. Sadly, they don't make them anymore...
neophyte7
Add that Hopkins has Godly stamina even at 48... always had great stamina- Bottom line Hopkins is one of a kind- What we are seeing will not be seen in a long time when he is done. His defense, movement, and perfectly placed shots at the right time is pugilism at its best.. maybe boring to some, yet pure mastery of the essence of the sweet science to others. Hopkins is too smart in there - It would take a Mike Tyson in his prime style at 175 to do him in.. that does not exist
hitman
put him in with a prime roy jones.
mitukczuk
QUOTE (hitman @ Mar 11 2013, 11:13 AM) *
put him in with a prime roy jones.


I agree. But put him there with prime Bhop.
daprofessor
know how to cut the ring.

bully the bully.

force the exchanges often and make him miss with counter punches.

make him work...get that heart pumping.

he'll tire. he's not super human. he's just good at tricking them.

the few times cloud was able to do any of this...bhop was very intelligent in response. he attacked to plant the seed of doubt in cloud. that's the point when cloud should have doubled down. the old man is human.
checkleft
QUOTE (hitman @ Mar 11 2013, 10:13 AM) *
put him in with a prime roy jones.

Jones beat him with one hand when they first fought

You have to be long athletic and have decent hand speed and good timing (Dawson, jermain, Jones)
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Mar 11 2013, 06:41 PM) *
know how to cut the ring.

bully the bully.

force the exchanges often and make him miss with counter punches.

make him work...get that heart pumping.

he'll tire. he's not super human. he's just good at tricking them.

the few times cloud was able to do any of this...bhop was very intelligent in response. he attacked to plant the seed of doubt in cloud. that's the point when cloud should have doubled down. the old man is human.


realistically who can do all that.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 11 2013, 04:13 PM) *
realistically who can do all that.


chad dawson

andre ward

sakio bika

maybe froch.
daprofessor
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Mar 11 2013, 05:25 PM) *
chad dawson

andre ward

sakio bika

maybe froch.


actually...froch may have his way with bhop. he dealt with ward and dirrell...both who are younger and may be stronger than bhop at this point. bhop moves less than dirrell...and he switches gears far less than ward at this point. i'd favor froch in that match up.
Kratza
A defensively sound and accurate BOXER can beat BHop
sduck
lol what daprofessor named... and prime Roy Jones did beat a prime Hopkins, 116-112 on all scorecards. That's close enough? Dawson also beat Hopkins 117-111 on two scorecards... Unless you're counting personal non-judge scorecards...?

Or wait, you're talking a flat-out beating? That's not going to happen...
checkleft
QUOTE (sduck @ Mar 11 2013, 05:52 PM) *
lol what daprofessor named... and prime Roy Jones did beat a prime Hopkins, 116-112 on all scorecards. That's close enough? Dawson also beat Hopkins 117-111 on two scorecards... Unless you're counting personal non-judge scorecards...?

This.

And Roy was fighting with one hand. But it were talkin about a dude who could hardly lose a round back then
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Mar 11 2013, 09:48 PM) *
actually...froch may have his way with bhop. he dealt with ward and dirrell...both who are younger and may be stronger than bhop at this point. bhop moves less than dirrell...and he switches gears far less than ward at this point. i'd favor froch in that match up.


I'd be curious to see that match up, Froch would want it too, to prove that he could do a better job than Calzaghe
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Mar 10 2013, 11:52 PM) *
We've never seen Bernard Hopkins definitively beaten. Chad Dawson and maybe Calzaghe gave him his worst beatings in recent years. Both of those losses werent beatings by any stretch. They were both close and competitive fights. How do you beat Hopkins 117 - 111 or wider? Or better yet, how would someone go in and STOP hopkins. I know a lot of fighters and trainers peruse the board, gimme some of your expert opinion and insight.



You have to flat out KO him because you're not going to beat him decisively by trying to outbox him.
mrchitown
The common answer is work rate but I can't really agree on that because Calzaghe had the best work rate of any fighter Hopkins ever saw and I think he beat Calzaghe. I think a fighter with Chad's physical gifts and more mental focus could be it but then again, Hopkins is Hopkins. I don't think he'll ever be BEATEN like some think
Dolimite
You get a boxer who is 50 or try to convince George Foreman to come back.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 11 2013, 08:34 PM) *
The common answer is work rate but I can't really agree on that because Calzaghe had the best work rate of any fighter Hopkins ever saw and I think he beat Calzaghe. I think a fighter with Chad's physical gifts and more mental focus could be it but then again, Hopkins is Hopkins. I don't think he'll ever be BEATEN like some think


pascal and cloud both had the physical gifts to give bhop a beating...they just didn't have the ring intelligence. pascal had him hurt...and even dropped...then he allowed bhop to run the okie doke and he stopped coming. if he would have kept that up, we might not be talking about this today. it goes without saying that bhop is a psychological master when it comes to boxing.
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Mar 11 2013, 07:54 PM) *
pascal and cloud both had the physical gifts to give bhop a beating...they just didn't have the ring intelligence. pascal had him hurt...and even dropped...then he allowed bhop to run the okie doke and he stopped coming. if he would have kept that up, we might not be talking about this today. it goes without saying that bhop is a psychological master when it comes to boxing.


Pacal had him hurt worse in the second fight and couldn't capitalize off if it. The 1st KD in their first fight I don't think he was hurt. That was a flash KD, but the one after that he was hurt but it's not so much of a matter of what they didn't do as opposed to what he did, he's intelligent and he switched his game up and IMO won the fight. All the fighters he faces mostly these days has the physical advantage but his IQ and defensive prowess is 2nd to none
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 11 2013, 11:18 PM) *
Pacal had him hurt worse in the second fight and couldn't capitalize off if it. The 1st KD in their first fight I don't think he was hurt. That was a flash KD, but the one after that he was hurt but it's not so much of a matter of what they didn't do as opposed to what he did, he's intelligent and he switched his game up and IMO won the fight. All the fighters he faces mostly these days has the physical advantage but his IQ and defensive prowess is 2nd to none


exactly.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 11 2013, 05:56 PM) *
This.

And Roy was fighting with one hand. But it were talkin about a dude who could hardly lose a round back then



I always laugh whenever I read this somewhere, Roy was the one who claimed he had one hand in that fight because he (Jones) was always doing things like that to lay the foundation for either a poor performance or in case he losses a fight. Go and look at all the excuses he made in his losses and his first close fight with Tarver, he blamed everything from his Dad to him not being able to get up/find the proper motivation for a big fight.

I believe that statement that Roy made about fighting with one hand was the beginning of his excuses because he knew that the fight with BHop wasn't going to be an easy one and therefore he had to have a built-in excuse just in case he didn't dominate as everyone expected him to or in the case that he lost the fight altogether.
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