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BrutUalBK
Carl Froch Claims His Legacy Has Surpassed Calzaghe's

IBF Super-Middleweight champion Carl Froch has taken a new swipe at boxing great Joe Calzaghe via the Daily Star by claiming his legacy has already surpassed that of the Welsh greats. Froch has taken digs at Calzaghe for years now which the future hall of famer has laughed off.

"I don’t like to talk Joe Calzaghe down but when you look at his career and the people he has beaten who are unbeaten, then I’ve fought more unbeaten fighters than Joe Calzaghe, more than anyone in Britain as world champion. I’m taking unbeaten people’s scalps and fighting at a higher level. Calzaghe has two or three names which stand out on his record. I’ve got ten or 12," said Froch.

Froch and Calzaghe have both beaten 5 unbeaten fighters each.

"As far as I’m concerned, my legacy has already superceded Joe Calzaghe’s – and I’ve got to say the great, phenomenal Joe Calzaghe, who retired unbeaten. People will say, ‘Yes, but he beat Mikkel Kessler’. I can answer that but I’m not going to, because it will look bitter. To beat Kessler, would that silence the critics? You’ll never, ever silence the critics. Floyd Mayweather Jnr gets stick and he’s the unbeaten pound-for-pound best. So if you think me beating Kessler is going to stop the critics, no fucking chance. An atom bomb won’t stop the critics. I’ve improved, I’ve fought at a better level, so I’m in a better position in terms of a re-match than he is," continued Froch.

The Froch and Calzaghe debate has raged on for years with the majority of people in favour of the Welshman. Joe Calzaghe retired unbeaten as one of the very best pound-for-pound fighters in the sport while being rated number 1 in the world at both Super-Middleweight and Light-Heavyweight. Carl Froch has of course never been rated number 1 in the world at any weight and has a loss against Calzaghe victim, Mikkel Kessler, which he will be looking to avenge on May 25th at London's O2 Arena infront of a sold out crowd.


Your thoughts???
daprofessor
froch is full of himself. he lost to a watered down version of kessler. he got a gift decision over dirrell. he went life and death with taylor. joe cal is definitely a class above froch. carl will never admit that.
mgrover
meh what did joe cal do?
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 4 2013, 06:51 PM) *
meh what did joe cal do?


Beat an over the hill Eubank, got a gift decision vs BHop and fought a way past it RJJ and beat an highly overrated Lacy.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 4 2013, 07:51 PM) *
meh what did joe cal do?


42 tried....and 42 failed. laugh.gif

actually...i thought the dude did a great job of hiding behind his promoter for many years. i picked him to beat bhop and rjj. i was shocked at how easy he beat left hook lacy...but to be honest...i was never impressed with lacy. i had never seen kessler before he beat him so i didn't really feel impressed by that victory either. kessler looked very limited in his abilities in that loss. the manfredo fight was laughable. with all of this being said....i think joe cal beats a guy like froch very easily.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 5 2013, 12:56 AM) *
42 tried....and 42 failed. laugh.gif

actually...i thought the dude did a great job of hiding behind his promoter for many years. i picked him to beat bhop and rjj. i was shocked at how easy he beat left hook lacy...but to be honest...i was never impressed with lacy. i had never seen kessler before he beat him so i didn't really feel impressed by that victory either. kessler looked very limited in his abilities in that loss. the manfredo fight was laughable. with all of this being said....i think joe cal beats a guy like froch very easily.


I don't think he does tbh
Cshel86
Nope, absolutely not. Froch's resume still needs some tuning.

As long as RJJ and Hopkins's name is on Joe's resume, Froch will always have some heavy lifting to do. The fact that Hopkins is still doing what he does at this advanced age, still gives life to Joe's resume, compared to Froch's.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Apr 4 2013, 07:52 PM) *
Nope, absolutely not. Froch's resume still needs some tuning.

As long as RJJ and Hopkins's name is on Joe's resume, Froch will always have some heavy lifting to do. The fact that Hopkins is still doing what he does at this advanced age, still gives life to Joe's resume, compared to Froch's.



Agreed! Froch has beaten more B level fighters and lost to his two A-lister's (Ward and Kessler) whereas JC has gotten the W over 3 of his A-lister's (Hops, RJJ and Eubank).
Cshel86
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Apr 4 2013, 09:05 PM) *
Agreed! Froch has beaten more B level fighters and lost to his two A-lister's (Ward and Kessler) whereas JC has gotten the W over 3 of his A-lister's (Hops, RJJ and Eubank).

Agreed. Regardless of the fact that he lost the Hopkins fight (by 1 point in my book), on paper, he still "won". Who in the hell can Froch actually fight, to get the recognition that he thinks he has? Could he possibly take a shot a B-Hop, and...stop him? Would that put him in the same talks as Joe, in regards to resumes?
Marcus
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Apr 4 2013, 09:12 PM) *
Agreed. Regardless of the fact that he lost the Hopkins fight (by 1 point in my book), on paper, he still "won". Who in the hell can Froch actually fight, to get the recognition that he thinks he has? Could he possibly take a shot a B-Hop, and...stop him? Would that put him in the same talks as Joe, in regards to resumes?


If Froch could stop B-Hop i dont think that would change anything. Its a dmaned if i do dmaned if i dont situaiton for Froch because B-Hop is pushing 50. Hes supposed to win. Hes supposed to knock him out. B-hop is a special case yes.. but at the end of the day hes a 48 year old BOXER. Calzaghe got a gift over B-Hop maybe. But the fact that B-Hop at 48 would probably still give Froch the same type of competitive fight that he gave to Calzaghe puts Froch at a disadvantage in terms of the Calzaghe comparisons.

Secondly ... i dare Froch to move up to 175. I dare him to fight a 100% healthy Andre Ward. I dare him to fight Dirrell in the US. Lets not forget that Ward beat this guy with one hand. Also Dirrell out classed this guy. Had Dirrelll gotten a fair shake we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 4 2013, 07:45 PM) *
froch is full of himself. he lost to a watered down version of kessler. he got a gift decision over dirrell. he went life and death with taylor. joe cal is definitely a class above froch. carl will never admit that.

No way. I respectfully disagree
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 4 2013, 07:51 PM) *
meh what did joe cal do?

+1

QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Apr 4 2013, 09:05 PM) *
Agreed! Froch has beaten more B level fighters and lost to his two A-lister's (Ward and Kessler) whereas JC has gotten the W over 3 of his A-lister's (Hops, RJJ and Eubank).

Cal built his record off of B level and C level fighters. Froch has fought all comers taken his losses like a man and even tho he is full of himself he runs from no one. Didn't he desimate the guy a lot of people said ward was ducking? Come on. Cal stole a fight from Hopkins nearly got slept by an over the hill Roy Jones and did next to nothing between and before that. At least Froch is testing himself taking risks and doing it with pride and like a warrior
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (checkleft @ Apr 4 2013, 08:33 PM) *
No way. I respectfully disagree

+1


Cal built his record off of B level and C level fighters. Froch has fought all comers taken his losses like a man and even tho he is full of himself he runs from no one. Didn't he desimate the guy a lot of people said ward was ducking? Come on. Cal stole a fight from Hopkins nearly got slept by an over the hill Roy Jones and did next to nothing between and before that. At least Froch is testing himself taking risks and doing it with pride and like a warrior


Well the record still stands whether you agree with it or not, all i did was highlight the type of comp they've both faced and CF's record doesn't have the level of superior fighters that JC's does, that is a fact!!

Hopkins and Jones name alone is worth more than all of the names of CF's resume.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Apr 4 2013, 08:52 PM) *
Nope, absolutely not. Froch's resume still needs some tuning.

As long as RJJ and Hopkins's name is on Joe's resume, Froch will always have some heavy lifting to do. The fact that Hopkins is still doing what he does at this advanced age, still gives life to Joe's resume, compared to Froch's.




He gets credit for Hopkins, but not Jones. Most of us on this board could probably have beaten the Jones thyat Calzaghe beat. Calzaghe was entertaining as hell to watch in his fights. He was also very good. Was he on par with Hopkins, Jones and Toney in his prime. I say yes. Is Carl Froch on par with those guys, not yet. Froch still has work to do. If he finds a way to beat Andre Ward, I think thyat puts him ahead of Calzaghe.
mrchitown
Froch has a strange obsession with Calzaghe. As a fighter I like Froch more then Calzaghe, at least Froch takes chances. Like everyone says, Joe got a gift in the Hopkins fight, Roy should've been retired by the time they fought. I don't know too many who expected him to lose to RJJ that night...real fans know that after RJJ moved up and won that HW belt and moved back down and had those fights with Tarver and that KO loss to Glen that he was done. Calzaghe's best wins are questionable at best but it's better then Carl's resume by just having Bernard and Roy on it, and let's not forget he beat Kessler too, another fighter Carl lost to

With that said, Froch lost to the best fighter he's ever faced in Ward and he lost convincingly. He beat Bute but Bute was more hype then sub stance, Froch was his 1st real test and he failed miserably. And he himself got a gift against Dirrell, that was some of the best home cooking I'd seen up to that point. He needs to win against better comp to pass Joe's legacy. I personally don't know if he'll ever do it. I think he'll get blitzed by a few at light-heavy and if he fights Hopkins I say Hopkins takes him by decision
Franchize
I never had respect for Joe Calzaghe. Other than when he destroyed Jeff Lacy (back when I was a Lacy fan), none of his wins impressed me really. He waited until B-Hop and Roy were old, came over here pounding his chest, and when he snuck away with victories, he took his ball and went home. I actually am in the minority that thinks B-Hop won that fight with him. Calzaghe was a shoe shiner who's a mix between the things I DIDN'T like about Sugar Ray Leonard and all the things Pactards claim Floyd is!

agree.gif For the record, there is nothing you can say to me about being a Jeff Lacy fan that I haven't already said to myself lmao resent.gif *hangs head in shame*
Cshel86
QUOTE (Franchize @ Apr 5 2013, 09:09 AM) *
I never had respect for Joe Calzaghe. Other than when he destroyed Jeff Lacy (back when I was a Lacy fan), none of his wins impressed me really. He waited until B-Hop and Roy were old, came over here pounding his chest, and when he snuck away with victories, he took his ball and went home. I actually am in the minority that thinks B-Hop won that fight with him. Calzaghe was a shoe shiner who's a mix between the things I DIDN'T like about Sugar Ray Leonard and all the things Pactards claim Floyd is!

agree.gif For the record, there is nothing you can say to me about being a Jeff Lacy fan that I haven't already said to myself lmao resent.gif *hangs head in shame*

laugh.gif

Remember the Manfredo "stoppage"??? Now THAT was some bullshit. I still think B-Hop edged him by a point, but Bernard bitched & moaned the whole time, and Joe put on the biggest slap-fest known to mankind. On top of that, I fell asleep during the fight, so I may missed something. Wait a minute....even when I youtube that, I STILL doze off here and there. LOL

Seems like all of the Lacy fan joke have been unloaded, so I'll keep something in the holster for another fighter that you happen to like. Oh yeah, we can say that he waited til Roy got old, but Hopkins was old then and he's older now...while breaking records.

Whatever that jockstrap joke is that people use all the time, we can use it here for Froch's resume compared to Joe's. Froch has been in more exciting fights, but Joe still has those famous shit stains on this record, that wont come off and the world is reminded of every time they see it.
mgrover
Is this a joke? People are giving JC credit for the wins vs Hopins and RJJ? and Eubank? A washed up Eubank, a washed up RJJ, and he didn't win vs Hopkins but whatever. Talk about double standard
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 5 2013, 09:56 AM) *
Is this a joke? People are giving JC credit for the wins vs Hopins and RJJ? and Eubank? A washed up Eubank, a washed up RJJ, and he didn't win vs Hopkins but whatever. Talk about double standard



I agree!! Not to mention that JC waited until both BHop & RJJ were in their 40's to face them, beating up on JLacy wasn't anything special either.

At least Froch are facing his opponents while they're still in their primes.
Musashi100
it debatable, i side with froch.
daprofessor
forget their comp...or lack thereof...i'm looking at how they match up. dirrell is the closest thing to joe cal that froch has faced. that was the biggest gift decision of his career. i had dirrell winning that 8-4. joe cal would have schooled froch easily. their one similar opponent....kessler...joe cal looked brilliant against him. froch lost to kessler. to me, it's not even close. froch can be a big prick and hate on joe all he wants. he's 2nd class to joe cal.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 5 2013, 09:27 PM) *
forget their comp...or lack thereof...i'm looking at how they match up. dirrell is the closest thing to joe cal that froch has faced. that was the biggest gift decision of his career. i had dirrell winning that 8-4. joe cal would have schooled froch easily. their one similar opponent....kessler...joe cal looked brilliant against him. froch lost to kessler. to me, it's not even close. froch can be a big prick and hate on joe all he wants. he's 2nd class to joe cal.


JC should of fought him then shouldn't he
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 5 2013, 04:49 PM) *
JC should of fought him then shouldn't he


froch wasn't even on the radar when that was possible. it would have been a step backwards for joe cal. froch has a chance to build his legacy. with his 2 (should be 3) losses...he's not making a good case for himself.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 6 2013, 03:23 AM) *
froch wasn't even on the radar when that was possible. it would have been a step backwards for joe cal. froch has a chance to build his legacy. with his 2 (should be 3) losses...he's not making a good case for himself.

Too late to call it now I guess, I just hate how he took the important fights late into his career when other fighters were washed up.
bnoles4life
I think Carl has a point and a pretty accurate one. To caveat on daprofessor, JC did well by playing on the fact Roy wasn't going to leave U.S. soil to fight ANYONE. I remember the interview, "If Roy wants to be the best (mind you, RJJ is the #1 P4P fighter at this time), he needs to come to England and fight me." Considering how Hatton brought loooooooaaaads of British here for his fight w/ Floyd, we'd have to deduce the Calzaghe camp didn't come over b/c:

A. His promoters were THE dumbest businessmen on Earth. Period. They had no foresight and/or business acumen whatsoever.

B. They are allergic to money. They didn't believe in living in excess, so they wanted to keep Joe humble and live among the meager.

C. They KNEW what was going to happen in fighting a closer to prime, if not IN prime, RJJ. I mean, after Roy's chin suffered consistently from PTSD (thanks Tarver...dick), dropping him faster from the rankings than the Dow in '07, why did they NOW see the need to come across the pond w/ less money to be made?
Franchize
I think some people are mistaking what I believe was the original point of the post. I don't think it's supposed to be about who was better. I think it's supposed to be about who proved more. Joe didn't prove shit to me except that I should never root for Jeff Lacy ever again.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (Franchize @ Apr 6 2013, 09:42 AM) *
I think some people are mistaking what I believe was the original point of the post. I don't think it's supposed to be about who was better. I think it's supposed to be about who proved more. Joe didn't prove shit to me except that I should never root for Jeff Lacy ever again.



CF is simply saying his legacy is better because he is facing the best of the fighters in his division in their primes and JC only faced his best when they were old/older or past it, thereby he feels that he has done more by beating his comp while young/viable as opposed to Cal waiting/maybe even Cherrypicking his more well-known opponents at a time when he felt it was best for him and not his opponents.

I agree with CF about the timing but still; having BHop & RJJ alone is worth more than anyone on his resume despite the timing his choose to fight them and let's not forget that Nard is still on top.
mgrover
Carl proved to be made of stronger stuff, after the Andre loss people were saying that he should retire yet he came back, against Bute who sure wasn't proven, but he didn't roll over and die
checkleft
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Apr 4 2013, 11:37 PM) *
Well the record still stands whether you agree with it or not, all i did was highlight the type of comp they've both faced and CF's record doesn't have the level of superior fighters that JC's does, that is a fact!!

Hopkins and Jones name alone is worth more than all of the names of CF's resume.

???

QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 5 2013, 10:56 AM) *
Is this a joke? People are giving JC credit for the wins vs Hopins and RJJ? and Eubank? A washed up Eubank, a washed up RJJ, and he didn't win vs Hopkins but whatever. Talk about double standard


+1
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Apr 5 2013, 10:59 AM) *
I agree!! Not to mention that JC waited until both BHop & RJJ were in their 40's to face them, beating up on JLacy wasn't anything special either.

At least Froch are facing his opponents while they're still in their primes.


???????
QUOTE (Musashi100 @ Apr 5 2013, 12:53 PM) *
it debatable, i side with froch.

This pretty much
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 5 2013, 10:23 PM) *
froch wasn't even on the radar when that was possible. it would have been a step backwards for joe cal. froch has a chance to build his legacy. with his 2 (should be 3) losses...he's not making a good case for himself.

Almost everybody on cals record was off the radar! Lmao, those two losses on carls record are more notable fighters than 95 percent of joes record
MaxPayne
I think Carl Froch is an excellent fighter. I also think that Carl had a reasonably good chance of beating Calzhage if they had ever fought.

Regardless, the concept of a fighter's "legacy" is set in the court of public opinion.

By that standard, people will unfortunately remember Calzhage's resume more than they remember Froch's.

So Froch is a little off, although I do adore him as a fighter.
neophyte7
Has anyone been watching long enough to remember Cal's questionable fight with Byron Mitchell??? Mitchell spins Cals head around like the exorcist with one of the most hellacious right hands I ever saw.. Cal to his credit gets up and Stuns Mitchell... and he lands about 2 punches and misses about 8 girl flurrries and as he is doing so he is looking to the ref and asking him to stop it.. the ref stopped it.. that was pure bullshit and I hated the guy since back then
Franchize
I guess the new question then should be, who would win? While I think Calzaghe is the more skilled fighter, I can definitely see Carl bullying Joe. I thought Bute was the more skilled fighter and Froch bullied him as well. Calzaghe fights like a pretty boy.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Franchize @ Apr 5 2013, 08:09 AM) *
I never had respect for Joe Calzaghe. Other than when he destroyed Jeff Lacy (back when I was a Lacy fan), none of his wins impressed me really. He waited until B-Hop and Roy were old, came over here pounding his chest, and when he snuck away with victories, he took his ball and went home. I actually am in the minority that thinks B-Hop won that fight with him. Calzaghe was a shoe shiner who's a mix between the things I DIDN'T like about Sugar Ray Leonard and all the things Pactards claim Floyd is!

agree.gif For the record, there is nothing you can say to me about being a Jeff Lacy fan that I haven't already said to myself lmao resent.gif *hangs head in shame*


laugh.gif i was NEVER sold on lacy. i thought he was garbage to be honest. but i must admit....i didn't really think much of joe calzaghe at that point either. when he beat lacy so convincingly and easily...i actually started looking at him in a different light.
daprofessor
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Apr 7 2013, 08:50 AM) *
Has anyone been watching long enough to remember Cal's questionable fight with Byron Mitchell??? Mitchell spins Cals head around like the exorcist with one of the most hellacious right hands I ever saw.. Cal to his credit gets up and Stuns Mitchell... and he lands about 2 punches and misses about 8 girl flurrries and as he is doing so he is looking to the ref and asking him to stop it.. the ref stopped it.. that was pure bullshit and I hated the guy since back then


i remember that fight. i think everyone knew joe cal didn't have a chance against roy at that point. he knew it too...which is why they kept him in his backyard.

anyone remember the froch/dirrell fight? was i the only one that had dirrell winning 8-4? that was some pure bullshit.
checkleft
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ Apr 7 2013, 08:50 AM) *
Has anyone been watching long enough to remember Cal's questionable fight with Byron Mitchell??? Mitchell spins Cals head around like the exorcist with one of the most hellacious right hands I ever saw.. Cal to his credit gets up and Stuns Mitchell... and he lands about 2 punches and misses about 8 girl flurrries and as he is doing so he is looking to the ref and asking him to stop it.. the ref stopped it.. that was pure bullshit and I hated the guy since back then

Jc had a handful of fights that ended that way. He gets in trouble throws a few pitty pat shit combos, hometown crowd goes nuts, hometown ref stops it way too early.


QUOTE (Franchize @ Apr 7 2013, 12:41 PM) *
I guess the new question then should be, who would win? While I think Calzaghe is the more skilled fighter, I can definitely see Carl bullying Joe. I thought Bute was the more skilled fighter and Froch bullied him as well. Calzaghe fights like a pretty boy.

I think Froch roughs him the fuck up and maybe stops him, Jc didn't have much of a chin but ill give him credit for always getting back up.

QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 7 2013, 04:52 PM) *
i remember that fight. i think everyone knew joe cal didn't have a chance against roy at that point. he knew it too...which is why they kept him in his backyard.

anyone remember the froch/dirrell fight? was i the only one that had dirrell winning 8-4? that was some pure bullshit.

I thought it was a little closer than that but yea that was dirrells to take home. Didn't help that it was over sea, and then they made the spinks vs Taylor argument about "you have to take the title from the champion, not run the whole fight", It's called boxing for a reason tho
daprofessor
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