Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: DELAHOYA SAYS MAYWEATHER AFRAID OF ALVAREZ
FightHype Community > BOXING HYPE > Boxing
Pages: 1, 2
neophyte7
According to Oscar Floyd is afraid of Saul Alvarez... Is Oscar selling tickets for Saul and Trout or is he serious?
mgrover
he's always been bitter about anyone who beat him, Mosley, Mayweather etc.

He's more or less trying to live his revenge through Alvarez lol
neophyte7
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 7 2013, 09:00 AM) *
he's always been bitter about anyone who beat him, Mosley, Mayweather etc.

He's more or less trying to live his revenge through Alvarez lol




LMAO thumbsup_anim.gif
mitukczuk
I am TIRED of Oscar's shit. I actually wanted to create a thread asking if anyone of you is as annoyed as I am when Oscar talks...well...about anything.

Not only hes bitter but he sometimes makes less sense than Arum. And Arum is the pinnacle of assholery...go figure. After Floyd sent Mosley into the land of forgotten he praised him almost as the best boxer ever and now this? Same when Floyd fought Ortiz....dudes bitter ! He resembles the good ol' "Yesterday I was lying but today I'm telling the truth"....No wonder these two can't srand each other...they are stealing punchlines from each other !
neophyte7
[quote name='mitukczuk' date='Apr 7 2013, 09:48 AM' post='577369']
I am TIRED of Oscar's shit. I actually wanted to create a thread asking if anyone of you is as annoyed as I am when Oscar talks...well...about anything.

Not only hes bitter but he sometimes makes less sense than Arum. And Arum is the pinnacle of assholery...

assholery!!! LMAO.. I learn new words here all the time... great!!!

Oscar better be careful he could curse his fighter. I recall Vivian Harris calling mayweather a faggot prior to a bout he had some years ago and he ended up getting KOd in the first or second round..LOL Oscar better hope he has a face left after fucking with Trout first
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 7 2013, 09:00 AM) *
he's always been bitter about anyone who beat him, Mosley, Mayweather etc.

He's more or less trying to live his revenge through Alvarez lol

Couldn't agree more MG!

I'm surprised that anybody even takes this pillow-biter's opinion seriously anymore. He's been caught in women's lingerie twice and his coke habit seemed to get swept under the rug.

The best thing for Mayweather to do, is harp on Oscar's past undercover lifestyle, as Arum did a couple of weeks ago. When he gets called out on those issues, he usually keeps quiet for a few months, while we have to endure Shaeffer's annoying, but interesting sense of promoting fights. Lol

Seriously, Oscar's not a bad dude, but when it comes to Canelo, he gets super defensive and delusional...sounds a bit suspect to me.
scdrking2
ODH is just doing his job. These next 6 PBF fights are going to be like a sweepstakes in terms of purse into other fighters build themselves up into premium draws. Floyd and Manny are the only options out there for super big money and everyone is going to line up to get on Floyd's dance card. It is a good chance Canelo takes a beating against Trout. ODH is making sure the fans still clammer for a Sept fight with Floyd regardless of the results against Trout.
leonthegee
Oscars doing his job as a promoter. Hes using Floyd to hype his fighter because Showtime isnt doing its job. The promotion for Canelo vs Trout has been a joke. So he does what every promoter does and name drop Floyd. Bam a couple hundred thousand hits for free. Floyd was right by saying if Canelos all that have him throw his own card.
Jovi
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Apr 7 2013, 11:01 AM) *
Oscars doing his job as a promoter. Hes using Floyd to hype his fighter because Showtime isnt doing its job. The promotion for Canelo vs Trout has been a joke. So he does what every promoter does and name drop Floyd. Bam a couple hundred thousand hits for free. Floyd was right by saying if Canelos all that have him throw his own card.


Promotion has been shitty for the fight. I just found out yesterday that it wasn't on HBO.
bnoles4life
Pretty simple, if you ask me. He basically dislikes Floyd AND he wants to sell tickets. The irony of it all, just may be, he has a problem with Floyd's doing to him and his promotion company, similarly the same reason he fought to leave Top Rank: make MORE of the money.

Let us not discount, Floyd is still doing crazy #s long since DLH has bounced from the fight game AND Floyd quickly reminds people, who says "DLH made him a PPV star" w/ a counter argument of "DLH had his highest PPV numbers w/ me, too." <<<< I'm sure that doesn't sit pretty w/ Oscar.
leonthegee
QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Apr 7 2013, 07:50 AM) *
Pretty simple, if you ask me. He basically dislikes Floyd AND he wants to sell tickets. The irony of it all, just may be, he has a problem with Floyd's doing to him and his promotion company, similarly the same reason he fought to leave Top Rank: make MORE of the money.

Let us not discount, Floyd is still doing crazy #s long since DLH has bounced from the fight game AND Floyd quickly reminds people, who says "DLH made him a PPV star" w/ a counter argument of "DLH had his highest PPV numbers w/ me, too." <<<< I'm sure that doesn't sit pretty w/ Oscar.


Oscar was a PPV star longer than Floyd and thats about it. Oscar vs Floyd was the highest grossing PPV. The 2nd highest non HW fight was Floyd vs Cotto. So Floyd vs a past his prime Cotto did higher numbers than a prime Oscar vs a prime Tito. Its gotta really urk Oscar.
Franchize
Watch Cotto vs Mayweather. De La Hoya is quoted by acclaimed Mayweather haters Larry Merchant and Jim Lampley saying that he would NOT make that fight because he doesn't feel Canelo is ready yet. I'm just mad none of the lames in the boxing media, with the most visibility and influence, will ever take Oscar to task for this. They'd rather propel the notion that Floyd is scared of everyone than tell the truth.
Dolimite
In the words of the late great Rick James: Cocaine is a hellva drug.

Just last year Oscar said that Alvarez was not ready for Mayweather. A year later after Canelo beat Josesito Lopez, he is now ready to face Mayweather. First his prize fighter has to get past a very slick fighter in Trout. I know that he will get a screw job but you know what? What does that matter? If Trout does get screwed Alvarez will either have to rematch him or take lots of criticism and go back to fighting jr. welterweights or lightweights. I think Oscar needs to have a come to Jesus moment and realize that Floyd beat his ass legally and fairly when they fought. Jealousy looks bad and if Alvarez with his 41 wins was so good Saul would had been have his own PPV. Let's face it. Saul is big and strong but he has a lot if kinks in his armor, and what does Floyd have to be afraid of than being blinded by Saul's sparkly robes and white legs.
daprofessor
floyd ain't stupid....he knows about the canelo curse. i wouldn't have signed that contract either!!! laugh.gif

canelo wasn't ready until they saw floyds less than stellar performance against cotto....and he went away for a while. the mosley win...the win over josesito....and if he can beat trout...that's all confidence boosting stuff. best believe the public will be screaming for mayweather/canelo is the ginger can pull of the win against trout. me personally....i want to see the winner face floyd if floyd gets past guerrero.
KOpower
Floyd isn't scared of Canelo, but he clearly doesn't want to fight him right now. I don't know why. If he did then he would sign the deal. Canelo wins...he gets his shot at Floyd. That is more than fair considering Canelo has been helping Floyd's PPV numbers in his last 2 events AND was going to give Floyd a massive fight with Trout for his 3rd one.

My guess is that Floyd wants to take a few easy fights before a big one with Canelo. I wouldn't be surprised if Floyd fought Alexander or Garcia in his next fight...both yawners.
The Original MrFactor
DLH should be more concerned with Alverez' next opponent. Mayweather will be a moot point when Trout beats the breaks off of Alvarez.
Cshel86
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 7 2013, 10:46 PM) *
Floyd isn't scared of Canelo, but he clearly doesn't want to fight him right now. I don't know why. If he did then he would sign the deal. Canelo wins...he gets his shot at Floyd. That is more than fair considering Canelo has been helping Floyd's PPV numbers in his last 2 events AND was going to give Floyd a massive fight with Trout for his 3rd one.

My guess is that Floyd wants to take a few easy fights before a big one with Canelo. I wouldn't be surprised if Floyd fought Alexander or Garcia in his next fight...both yawners.

Oh STFU!

That's so far from the truth. Don't you understand the difference between viewers and buyers? I'm so sick of explaining this to some of you fucktards. Viewers are mere spectators who just flip to HBO or Showtime when a fight comes on and waits for the main event. "Buyers" are the mofos who take a chance and pay their hard earned money to see a fighter.

We already know that when it comes to people's money, they act real funky and are nothing less than tightwads, and hope that somebody sides with them on why they wont spend their money on whatever. Screw them. People spend money on frivolous shit all the time, but when the fire is to their feet about buying a fight that could end in any fashion, then comes all of the excuses.

Why are people forgetting that Floyd cracked over 1M buys for his fight with Marquez? Was Marquez who he is TODAY, back in 2009? Nope, he was the guy who had 2 hard (and controversial) fights with Manny. Who else was on that card?

Some of yall kill me with this "Canelo helped Floyd's numbers" nonsense. Didn't Chavez and Canelo BOTH have something over a few million viewers for their fights in 2012? How many PPV buys did Chavez do in 2012? Somewhere around $400k...in the BIGGEST fight of his career. If that was the BIGGEST fight of his career, why not more buys? How many PPV buys did Canelo do in 2012? I'll hold my breath and wait...

Again, viewers and buyers are 2 different things.
leonthegee
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 7 2013, 06:46 PM) *
Floyd isn't scared of Canelo, but he clearly doesn't want to fight him right now. I don't know why. If he did then he would sign the deal. Canelo wins...he gets his shot at Floyd. That is more than fair considering Canelo has been helping Floyd's PPV numbers in his last 2 events AND was going to give Floyd a massive fight with Trout for his 3rd one.

My guess is that Floyd wants to take a few easy fights before a big one with Canelo. I wouldn't be surprised if Floyd fought Alexander or Garcia in his next fight...both yawners.

So your saying 1.5 mil that Cotto vs Mayweather did was tainted because Canelo was on the undercard? Ya right 1.5 mil paid to see Canelo vs Mosley. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. Canelo has no right to try and dictate terms to Floyd. Fuck PPV Canelos barely had a hand full of headline events. Canelo overplayed his hand in my opinion. The worst thing for him was letting Mayweather do huge numbers without him. Now they dont even have that weak ass argument people like you are trying to spin. That deal that they had agreed to earlier just got more expensive.
checkleft
No way, someone's using floyds name to sell a fight???

Didn't we go through this for like three years already? Who would have thought that "Mayweather is scared of (place hyped up fighters name here)" = ticket sales.
Franchize
I was about to rip that comment to shreds but CShel did an even better job lmao. Canelo doesn't do anything for Floyd besides provide him a credible opponent. Since when does Floyd need help selling PPVs? Canelo doesn't sell PPVs. Canelo is only a star because HBO tells you he is. We were constantly being fed the BS that he had this cult like following of hispanic fans, but then, come to find out they were exactly like Cshel said. Viewers. It's not much different than the music industry. There are some guys you couldn't pay me to listen to their album. There's some guys I'll listen to if someone provides me with the music. There are a few guys who I'll get in my car, go out and buy their CD.
Musashi100
Ain't nobody scared, just easy ploy to use just to get people wild up. These days you can't even fucking tell who scared of who because of these fucking promoters aren't letting their fighter fight the best in less it some in house shit.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Franchize @ Apr 8 2013, 08:30 AM) *
I was about to rip that comment to shreds but CShel did an even better job lmao. Canelo doesn't do anything for Floyd besides provide him a credible opponent. Since when does Floyd need help selling PPVs? Canelo doesn't sell PPVs. Canelo is only a star because HBO tells you he is. We were constantly being fed the BS that he had this cult like following of hispanic fans, but then, come to find out they were exactly like Cshel said. Viewers. It's not much different than the music industry. There are some guys you couldn't pay me to listen to their album. There's some guys I'll listen to if someone provides me with the music. There are a few guys who I'll get in my car, go out and buy their CD.


excellent way to put it and i agree. but honestly...i knew about canelo waaaaay before hbo ever mentioned his name. he's been popular in socal...especially amongst the mexican fans, for quite some time.
mgrover
I hope someone just destroys him and stops this damn hype.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 7 2013, 08:00 AM) *
he's always been bitter about anyone who beat him, Mosley, Mayweather etc.

He's more or less trying to live his revenge through Alvarez lol



This is true but he's also trying to promote the fight by stirring up controversy, DLH is not stupid---he knows that Floyd beats Canelo rather easily but as a Promoter it is his job to promote his fighters thus garnering the higher PPV numbers by fanning the flames of controversy to get the interest going.

It would be funny as crap if Canelo gets totally starched by Trout in light of this comment by DLH, how foolish would he look then??
KOpower
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Apr 8 2013, 12:11 AM) *
Oh STFU!

That's so far from the truth. Don't you understand the difference between viewers and buyers? I'm so sick of explaining this to some of you fucktards. Viewers are mere spectators who just flip to HBO or Showtime when a fight comes on and waits for the main event. "Buyers" are the mofos who take a chance and pay their hard earned money to see a fighter.

We already know that when it comes to people's money, they act real funky and are nothing less than tightwads, and hope that somebody sides with them on why they wont spend their money on whatever. Screw them. People spend money on frivolous shit all the time, but when the fire is to their feet about buying a fight that could end in any fashion, then comes all of the excuses.

Why are people forgetting that Floyd cracked over 1M buys for his fight with Marquez? Was Marquez who he is TODAY, back in 2009? Nope, he was the guy who had 2 hard (and controversial) fights with Manny. Who else was on that card?

Some of yall kill me with this "Canelo helped Floyd's numbers" nonsense. Didn't Chavez and Canelo BOTH have something over a few million viewers for their fights in 2012? How many PPV buys did Chavez do in 2012? Somewhere around $400k...in the BIGGEST fight of his career. If that was the BIGGEST fight of his career, why not more buys? How many PPV buys did Canelo do in 2012? I'll hold my breath and wait...

Again, viewers and buyers are 2 different things.


You are just flat out wrong. If you think that Canelo didn't help Floyd's PPV numbers, you are out of your mind. Did Canelo MAKE Floyd's event? Hell no, but Canelo absolutely made it a bigger event and he absolutely brought PPV dollars to the table.

That isn't even the point. The fact is that Canelo is easily Floyd's biggest fight out there (Manny fight isn't possible anymore) and Canelo was willing to give Floyd the Trout fight on his undercard. That is a huge fight, but Floyd declined. Why? I can't think of a real good reason for him to decline that fight.
daprofessor
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 07:31 PM) *
You are just flat out wrong. If you think that Canelo didn't help Floyd's PPV numbers, you are out of your mind. Did Canelo MAKE Floyd's event? Hell no, but Canelo absolutely made it a bigger event and he absolutely brought PPV dollars to the table.

That isn't even the point. The fact is that Canelo is easily Floyd's biggest fight out there (Manny fight isn't possible anymore) and Canelo was willing to give Floyd the Trout fight on his undercard. That is a huge fight, but Floyd declined. Why? I can't think of a real good reason for him to decline that fight.


the canelo curse is real. ask ortiz and cotto. laugh.gif
KOpower
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Apr 8 2013, 08:57 AM) *
So your saying 1.5 mil that Cotto vs Mayweather did was tainted because Canelo was on the undercard? Ya right 1.5 mil paid to see Canelo vs Mosley. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. Canelo has no right to try and dictate terms to Floyd. Fuck PPV Canelos barely had a hand full of headline events. Canelo overplayed his hand in my opinion. The worst thing for him was letting Mayweather do huge numbers without him. Now they dont even have that weak ass argument people like you are trying to spin. That deal that they had agreed to earlier just got more expensive.


There is a 0% chance that the number is 1.5 million if Canelo-Mosley isn't on the undercard. It is IMPOSSIBLE to predict how many numbers were added due to the Canelo fight. Canelo obviously has his fans that will pay. He also provides a good name to push that skeptical fan over the edge to buy the fight. Cotto-Mayweather did well b/c of the following that both fighters have. They do well over 1 million buys without Canelo...Canelo just added to that.

Mayweather will do big numbers without him, but let's see if they trump the Ortiz fight. Let's see if they trump the Cotto fight. Canelo really had no other option. I mean what is he going to do...become Floyd's b*tch and continue to fight next 3 or 4 big fights on Floyd's undercard just to appease him? Canelo did it for the last 2 Mayweather events and he was willing to give Floyd a huge fight for the 3rd one. It was put up or shut up and CLEARLY Mayweather wasn't interested in fighting him next.

Now we will be stuck with who...Floyd vs Danny Garcia? Floyd vs Devon Alexander? Oh wait...I got it...an Andre Berto win in July sets up a Money vs Berto fight in the winter. I can't wait..
checkleft
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 07:49 PM) *
There is a 0% chance that the number is 1.5 million if Canelo-Mosley isn't on the undercard. It is IMPOSSIBLE to predict how many numbers were added due to the Canelo fight. Canelo obviously has his fans that will pay. He also provides a good name to push that skeptical fan over the edge to buy the fight. Cotto-Mayweather did well b/c of the following that both fighters have. They do well over 1 million buys without Canelo...Canelo just added to that.

Mayweather will do big numbers without him, but let's see if they trump the Ortiz fight. Let's see if they trump the Cotto fight. Canelo really had no other option. I mean what is he going to do...become Floyd's b*tch and continue to fight next 3 or 4 big fights on Floyd's undercard just to appease him? Canelo did it for the last 2 Mayweather events and he was willing to give Floyd a huge fight for the 3rd one. It was put up or shut up and CLEARLY Mayweather wasn't interested in fighting him next.

Now we will be stuck with who...Floyd vs Danny Garcia? Floyd vs Devon Alexander? Oh wait...I got it...an Andre Berto win in July sets up a Money vs Berto fight in the winter. I can't wait..

So you think Canelo is going to win? Cause your talking like if he already beat trout. If he loses, why would Floyd even fight him!?! That's the whole point of this, Canelo wanted a mayweather guarantee win or lose. That's an easy way to look passed your opponent and get a Fucking surprise. Don't let the media play you bro, your acting as if Canelo was trying to reward Floyd and he can stfu with that Floyd is the highest grossing non heavyweight ppv star ever, he (supposedly) the biggest sports contract ever, he holds the record for highest guarantee at 32 mill for a fight. Who in the Fucking world is red trying to play when he's made his fame off fighting welterweights and has beens brothers! Haha, gtfoh.

Btw at this point ALL of the guys you mentioned have fought better competition that Canelo and at this point, resume wise deserving the fight more than Canelo.
mrchitown
This is why I don't condone druggin, this coke head is out of his f*cking mind. He always throwing shade at floyd and that's no surprise. Find a 24/7 where he wasn't in the other fighters camps trying to give hints on how to beat Floyd. How you gon tutor somebody on beating a fighter who whooped yo ass laugh.gif

He does that with alot of the fighters who've beaten him, I haven't seen him do it to Hopkins but Floyd catches it the most. I genuinely think Oscar and Floyd don't like each other. Floyd always alludes to it in interviews, he always gives the credit to Schaefer and doesn't really acknowledge Oscar. Why they dislike each other I don't know but I think that's the case

Aint no legit fighter afraid of Canelo, who has he fought, I always here how he gets better every fight, look who he fought. It's hard not to get better when you fighting mini me's. If he legitimately beats Trout then he will get props from me but until then he just a babied champion. Oscar treating Canelo like his son, he wants to re-live his career and right his career wrongs through Canelo
KOpower
QUOTE (checkleft @ Apr 8 2013, 09:02 PM) *
So you think Canelo is going to win? Cause your talking like if he already beat trout. If he loses, why would Floyd even fight him!?! That's the whole point of this, Canelo wanted a mayweather guarantee win or lose. That's an easy way to look passed your opponent and get a Fucking surprise. Don't let the media play you bro, your acting as if Canelo was trying to reward Floyd and he can stfu with that Floyd is the highest grossing non heavyweight ppv star ever, he (supposedly) the biggest sports contract ever, he holds the record for highest guarantee at 32 mill for a fight. Who in the Fucking world is red trying to play when he's made his fame off fighting welterweights and has beens brothers! Haha, gtfoh.

Btw at this point ALL of the guys you mentioned have fought better competition that Canelo and at this point, resume wise deserving the fight more than Canelo.


I think it's a 50-50 fight. I would bet on Trout if I HAD to. That has nothing to do with what the original point was and that's why I didn't mention the fight itself.

The deal was supposed to be if Canelo and Floyd both win, they fight in September. That was what everyone has reported. If that is NOT accurate, please provide a link to a reasonable source and I will try to do more research on the matter myself. That was what I read on various boxing websites and the GP promoter himself. If Canelo loses, he does not deserve a shot at Mayweather.

"Red" isn't trying to play anyone. Again...it was a very reasonable request. What is the alternative? Should Canelo just continue to fight on Floyd PPV undercards just to make the man happy? Please, Canelo decided that enough was enough and that's exactly what he should have done. Floyd declined. Why? The ONLY reason is because he has no intention of fighting Canelo at any point in the near future...whether he wins or loses.

Floyd wants to fight a few easy fights for LARGE dollars against guys like Alexander, Berto, Garcia, etc and THEN go for the Canelo fight.
leonthegee
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 04:49 PM) *
There is a 0% chance that the number is 1.5 million if Canelo-Mosley isn't on the undercard. It is IMPOSSIBLE to predict how many numbers were added due to the Canelo fight. Canelo obviously has his fans that will pay. He also provides a good name to push that skeptical fan over the edge to buy the fight. Cotto-Mayweather did well b/c of the following that both fighters have. They do well over 1 million buys without Canelo...Canelo just added to that.

Mayweather will do big numbers without him, but let's see if they trump the Ortiz fight. Let's see if they trump the Cotto fight. Canelo really had no other option. I mean what is he going to do...become Floyd's b*tch and continue to fight next 3 or 4 big fights on Floyd's undercard just to appease him? Canelo did it for the last 2 Mayweather events and he was willing to give Floyd a huge fight for the 3rd one. It was put up or shut up and CLEARLY Mayweather wasn't interested in fighting him next.

Now we will be stuck with who...Floyd vs Danny Garcia? Floyd vs Devon Alexander? Oh wait...I got it...an Andre Berto win in July sets up a Money vs Berto fight in the winter. I can't wait..


Sure people shed out 70 bones to see Canelo vs a shot Mosley. Please not even you would do that. Botton line is GBP isnt ready for Canelo to fight Floyd otherwise that fight would be happening now. Canelo picked Trout because they believe hes easier. Shafer said it at the Cotto Mayweather fight. He said it a weak later on the Jim Lampley Show. Whats happen since then? Canelo beating up Josesito Lopez moving up 2 divisions. Thats a joke and you know it. Mayweathers right in saying who is Canelo to try and give him an ultimatum. If Canelo beats Trout, which I believe he will, that will put him to the top of the Mayweather list.

But at the same time I can see Floyd toying with Canelo since he knows he wants to fight on Mexican Indepence Day. Canelos already fucked on Cinco de Mayo weekend. The only way Canelo can have that date is if he fights Floyd or Floyd gives up that date. Or he can loose face and fight on Floyds undercard. Floyd has Canelos balls in a vice grip only he doesnt know it yet.
Cshel86
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 08:31 PM) *
You are just flat out wrong. If you think that Canelo didn't help Floyd's PPV numbers, you are out of your mind. Did Canelo MAKE Floyd's event? Hell no, but Canelo absolutely made it a bigger event and he absolutely brought PPV dollars to the table.

That isn't even the point. The fact is that Canelo is easily Floyd's biggest fight out there (Manny fight isn't possible anymore) and Canelo was willing to give Floyd the Trout fight on his undercard. That is a huge fight, but Floyd declined. Why? I can't think of a real good reason for him to decline that fight.

Stop it with the numbers stuff. If anything, we can say that more people bout the card because his opponent, and not this "fluctuated" star power of his. Answer this, before ordering this card, how many people knew Shane compared to Canelo? There's your answer.

Again, I'll compare Canelo and Julio's HBO views from 2011 and 2012...views don't equate to buys, sorry. I'd watch Golovkin fight any day of the week, but I sure as hell didn't buy his recent low-budget PPV against Ishida, regardless of the fact that it was nowhere near $45-$70.

So...Julio's miiiiilions of viewers equated to how many PPV buys in the biggest fight of his life?! Around 400K?! Stop it man. If Floyd fought on Showtime Championship next weekend for FREE, then Im sure their view rate for that night would be more than his recent 1.5M BUYS. Right? I'm sure people would loooove to see Floyd (to win or lose) for free, but not many are willing to cough up $70.

Answer this, how many people do you think would be willing to PAY anywhere from $45-$70 to see Canelo fight Shane Mosley? I'll wait. They were PUSHING Canelo's fight, hell, you see that they aired it a week later on HBO when they replayed Mayweather/Cotto. That fight wasn't that big to drive up sales bro, sorry.

Let's be real here, Canelo can't GIVE anybody AYTHING, so for you to say that Canelo was willing to GIVE Floyd the Trout fight on his undercard, is laughable. De La Homo's hand (and probably something else) is up Canelo's ass and telling him what to do and say, he is under contract, or am I missing something?

You're probably one of those retards that thinks Manny can make his own decisions and offer fighters certain amounts of money...or "take the smaller split". Hell, that retard can't even incriminate himself and offer to take the smaller split of a purse. laugh.gif

Just stop failing man...
Cshel86
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 09:57 PM) *
The deal was supposed to be if Canelo and Floyd both win, they fight in September. That was what everyone has reported. If that is NOT accurate, please provide a link to a reasonable source and I will try to do more research on the matter myself. That was what I read on various boxing websites and the GP promoter himself. If Canelo loses, he does not deserve a shot at Mayweather.

Allow me to explain the two bold points...

That was floating around, but I don't remember Floyd mentioning it, but I could be wrong. I remember him saying that he will fight in May and September, but I guess Oscar got the happy pants and inserted Canelo's name into that September slot.

Now, the second point is what ruined this whole "deal" a few weeks ago. How does this sound?...Canelo tries to "offer" Floyd an undercard fight, an "explosive" undercard fight, by taking on Trout for May 4th. NOW, why would Canelo go off and give Floyd an ultimatum, when this whole "both winners fight each other in September" deal was already verbally agreed upon?

Maybe it's because he knew that he would get his ass kicked by Trout on May 4th. Think about it, would a Trout ass-whoopin' be as bad, when you already have a lofty payday set up with Floyd 4 months later? What sense does that make? So you're telling me that Canelo wasn't going to fight ANYBODY on May 4th or April 20th, until a fight with floyd was signed?

I mean this dude (Canelo) DOES have a careerto follow through with, so why is Floyd's decision of him fighting Trout, holding him up? What if Canelo was fighting Angulo on May 4th, would he be begging for a signed agreement to fight in September...or is the thought of losing to Trout, that makes him want that guarantee?

What if Canelo/Trout fought on May 4th, Trout beat him, but the September contract was already signed? How would that look? The guy who Floyd was supposed to be fighting, got beat, but the winner didn't get his shot at Floyd? Sounds like some serious doubt was going on with Canelo's team.
checkleft
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 08:57 PM) *
I think it's a 50-50 fight. I would bet on Trout if I HAD to. That has nothing to do with what the original point was and that's why I didn't mention the fight itself.

The deal was supposed to be if Canelo and Floyd both win, they fight in September. That was what everyone has reported. If that is NOT accurate, please provide a link to a reasonable source and I will try to do more research on the matter myself. That was what I read on various boxing websites and the GP promoter himself. If Canelo loses, he does not deserve a shot at Mayweather.

"Red" isn't trying to play anyone. Again...it was a very reasonable request. What is the alternative? Should Canelo just continue to fight on Floyd PPV undercards just to make the man happy? Please, Canelo decided that enough was enough and that's exactly what he should have done. Floyd declined. Why? The ONLY reason is because he has no intention of fighting Canelo at any point in the near future...whether he wins or loses.

Floyd wants to fight a few easy fights for LARGE dollars against guys like Alexander, Berto, Garcia, etc and THEN go for the Canelo fight.

What stiff competition has Canelo faced that makes you think Canelo is a harder fight then guys like Alexander Garcia berto ect.? The point is this dude wants the biggest available pay day in boxing for doing next to shit, and then he has the balls to set an ultimatum?
mgrover
ffs can Canelo hurry up and fight Trout so Trout can be robbed and my friend can fucking dance on my grave after I hand him the money. To make it worse he's an ignorant fuck so even if he watches Canelo lose yet get gifted he'll rub it in my nose.

Also Canelo is in no position to give anyone named Mayweather an ultimatum. He'll probably fight Cotto later this year if he's still around.
Dolimite
Mind you, this is Saul's FIRST time fighting a fighter in his weight class. He is 41-0 against who exactly? And he wants to makes demands with Floyd? Oscar was obviously on a coke high when he made this statement. He is acting like a jealous bitch and it makes him look gross.

Be a man Oscar and let it go, you lost move on. Saul is not your answer and after you are done robbing Trout of a victory everyone will see that all you had in Saul was the look of a fighter.
VJones
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Apr 8 2013, 07:02 PM) *
This is true but he's also trying to promote the fight by stirring up controversy, DLH is not stupid---he knows that Floyd beats Canelo rather easily but as a Promoter it is his job to promote his fighters thus garnering the higher PPV numbers by fanning the flames of controversy to get the interest going.

It would be funny as crap if Canelo gets totally starched by Trout in light of this comment by DLH, how foolish would he look then??


Agreed. DLH is acting as promoter and invoking the "Floyd is scared" mantra, perfected by Arum to create a buzz for his fighter. But I'll add (as others have suggested) that there is certainly no love lost between DLH and FM. There is a very real jealousy and dislike for Mayweather on the part of Oscar that he finds difficult to hide at times. Oscar made a career as "the golden boy", carrying the burden of a 'perfect' persona -- a good and wholesome guy; while his real life vices and strong urges threatened to topple his kingdom. In essence, he couldn't do what he wanted to do. He felt shackled and stifled. And now, Mayweather has out earned and over-shadowed him, while more or less doing whatever he wants to. That rankles Oscar to no end.

On Floyd's part, his dislike of Oscar goes back to Top Rank, and the disparity of treatment by Arum of both men. Floyd has always disliked Oscar for being duplicitous. If you ask Floyd, he'll tell you Oscar is a fake. Because the truth is, nearly everyone in boxing knew what Oscar's life outside the ring was like. Frankly it resembled Floyd's, but with even more excess, plus drugs and drinking. Everyone knew. And everyone (Arum, HBO, Media) helped cover it up. And that rankled Floyd to no end.

QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 8 2013, 07:31 PM) *
You are just flat out wrong. If you think that Canelo didn't help Floyd's PPV numbers, you are out of your mind. Did Canelo MAKE Floyd's event? Hell no, but Canelo absolutely made it a bigger event and he absolutely brought PPV dollars to the table.

That isn't even the point. The fact is that Canelo is easily Floyd's biggest fight out there (Manny fight isn't possible anymore) and Canelo was willing to give Floyd the Trout fight on his undercard. That is a huge fight, but Floyd declined. Why? I can't think of a real good reason for him to decline that fight.


You have a great misunderstanding of the how's, why's, and when's of PPV. But I think Cshel has done a great job in addressing some of it. I'll simply add that 1. Networks are big on statistics. They don't do things for kicks and giggles. 2. PPV is a money-making ordeal. It's not about exposure for a fighter. Its not about supposition. It's about proven numbers. 3. PPV requires millions in advertising, fees, etc., which the network is partly responsible for. 4. Networks are not in the business of losing money, so if it doesn't make dollars, then it doesn't make sense to do. This is why Canelo has yet to have a PPV of his own. He is not ready. He has yet to have a breakout performance when he had the stage and the casual fans on the undercard of FM's ticket. No one is clamoring to PAY to VIEW this kid. Not yet. The undercard of a PPV star is where you can make your mark towards becoming a star within your own right. That was his time to shine. And obviously, the statistics collected by the networks show that his star isn't bright enough to make him PPV worthy. Not yet.

I think it's reckless to hear someone suggest that an unproven and up and coming young star is somehow responsible for the PPV numbers of a proven, PPV record-holder. It's just madness. Stop listening to Dan Rafael. He's a shill and a hack and writes to his emotions.

Even a Miguel Cotto (and Shane Mosely) proven stars (significantly more popular with the casual, PPV buying fan) don't register much in terms of PPV numbers on a Mayeather card, much less Canelo Alvarez...? SMH

Networks are not emotional or subjective. It's business. Therefore it's all about the numbers. If Canelo Alvarez was capable of putting up (like Chavez Jr.) a few hundred-thousand buys on his own...he would have headlined his own PPV, two fights ago.
VJones
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 8 2013, 07:34 PM) *
the canelo curse is real. ask ortiz and cotto. laugh.gif


Lol. Right!

But truly, it's an unwritten rule of sports and competition. You NEVER look past what's in front of you. Amir Khan comes to mind in his quest for FM. I think it's one of the most absurd requests ever!

Btw, I'm hearing that the push for Floyd is more than promotion. That Canelo is fastly outgrowing 154 and the concern is he won't be able to make the weight much longer, thus the rush to have Floyd commit. He wants the pay-day of course, but more importantly the significant bump in popularity gained by facing Floyd. They want the broader market. They're not concerned about him losing the fight because its not a bad fight to lose. And they believe 'Nelo won't be completely outclassed because of his size and Floyd's aging...

What say you, Prof?
daprofessor
QUOTE (VJones @ Apr 9 2013, 12:36 PM) *
Agreed. DLH is acting as promoter and invoking the "Floyd is scared" mantra, perfected by Arum to create a buzz for his fighter. But I'll add (as others have suggested) that there is certainly no love lost between DLH and FM. There is a very real jealousy and dislike for Mayweather on the part of Oscar that he finds difficult to hide at times. Oscar made a career as "the golden boy", carrying the burden of a 'perfect' persona -- a good and wholesome guy; while his real life vices and strong urges threatened to topple his kingdom. In essence, he couldn't do what he wanted to do. He felt shackled and stifled. And now, Mayweather has out earned and over-shadowed him, while more or less doing whatever he wants to. That rankles Oscar to no end.

On Floyd's part, his dislike of Oscar goes back to Top Rank, and the disparity of treatment by Arum of both men. Floyd has always disliked Oscar for being duplicitous. If you ask Floyd, he'll tell you Oscar is a fake. Because the truth is, nearly everyone in boxing knew what Oscar's life outside the ring was like. Frankly it resembled Floyd's, but with even more excess, plus drugs and drinking. Everyone knew. And everyone (Arum, HBO, Media) helped cover it up. And that rankled Floyd to no end.



You have a great misunderstanding of the how's, why's, and when's of PPV. But I think Cshel has done a great job in addressing some of it. I'll simply add that 1. Networks are big on statistics. They don't do things for kicks and giggles. 2. PPV is a money-making ordeal. It's not about exposure for a fighter. Its not about supposition. It's about proven numbers. 3. PPV requires millions in advertising, fees, etc., which the network is partly responsible for. 4. Networks are not in the business of losing money, so if it doesn't make dollars, then it doesn't make sense to do. This is why Canelo has yet to have a PPV of his own. He is not ready. He has yet to have a breakout performance when he had the stage and the casual fans on the undercard of FM's ticket. No one is clamoring to PAY to VIEW this kid. Not yet. The undercard of a PPV star is where you can make your mark towards becoming a star within your own right. That was his time to shine. And obviously, the statistics collected by the networks show that his star isn't bright enough to make him PPV worthy. Not yet.

I think it's reckless to hear someone suggest that an unproven and up and coming young star is somehow responsible for the PPV numbers of a proven, PPV record-holder. It's just madness. Stop listening to Dan Rafael. He's a shill and a hack and writes to his emotions.

Even a Miguel Cotto (and Shane Mosely) proven stars (significantly more popular with the casual, PPV buying fan) don't register much in terms of PPV numbers on a Mayeather card, much less Canelo Alvarez...? SMH

Networks are not emotional or subjective. It's business. Therefore it's all about the numbers. If Canelo Alvarez was capable of putting up (like Chavez Jr.) a few hundred-thousand buys on his own...he would have headlined his own PPV, two fights ago.


excellent post.

i think you all make valid points...but i agree that canelo is in no position to be making demands. floyd has been very good about selecting the right opposition and the promoters have been good about putting together solid undercards. this next ppv will be no different. i think floyd would have benefitted with canelo on the undercard moreso than mares. i'll agree that canelo is not ppv worthy...but if he should beat trout i think he is without doubt floyds biggest payday like KOpower has suggested.
daprofessor
QUOTE (VJones @ Apr 9 2013, 12:55 PM) *
Lol. Right!

But truly, it's an unwritten rule of sports and competition. You NEVER look past what's in front of you. Amir Khan comes to mind in his quest for FM. I think it's one of the most absurd requests ever!

Btw, I'm hearing that the push for Floyd is more than promotion. That Canelo is fastly outgrowing 154 and the concern is he won't be able to make the weight much longer, thus the rush to have Floyd commit. He wants the pay-day of course, but more importantly the significant bump in popularity gained by facing Floyd. They want the broader market. They're not concerned about him losing the fight because its not a bad fight to lose. And they believe 'Nelo won't be completely outclassed because of his size and Floyd's aging...

What say you, Prof?


amir khan did it to himself twice!!! laugh.gif first against peterson....then against garcia. you would think he would have learned his lesson. if i was part of his team i would have told him to stfu a looooong time ago.

i agree that canelo is outgrowing the division. evidence of that has been seen in his last few bouts where they show him jogging with rubber suits on trying to cut weight. the weight cutting costs him in the fight too! he always seems to only fight in spots and rarely pushes a pace. it's why i believe trout is going to beat him in their match. but again....if canelo proves me wrong and beats trout...he will, without a doubt, move into the number one slot to face floyd imo.

of course all of this will be moot if guerrero and trout are successful. it's possible. laugh.gif
KOpower
QUOTE (VJones @ Apr 9 2013, 01:36 PM) *
Agreed. DLH is acting as promoter and invoking the "Floyd is scared" mantra, perfected by Arum to create a buzz for his fighter. But I'll add (as others have suggested) that there is certainly no love lost between DLH and FM. There is a very real jealousy and dislike for Mayweather on the part of Oscar that he finds difficult to hide at times. Oscar made a career as "the golden boy", carrying the burden of a 'perfect' persona -- a good and wholesome guy; while his real life vices and strong urges threatened to topple his kingdom. In essence, he couldn't do what he wanted to do. He felt shackled and stifled. And now, Mayweather has out earned and over-shadowed him, while more or less doing whatever he wants to. That rankles Oscar to no end.

On Floyd's part, his dislike of Oscar goes back to Top Rank, and the disparity of treatment by Arum of both men. Floyd has always disliked Oscar for being duplicitous. If you ask Floyd, he'll tell you Oscar is a fake. Because the truth is, nearly everyone in boxing knew what Oscar's life outside the ring was like. Frankly it resembled Floyd's, but with even more excess, plus drugs and drinking. Everyone knew. And everyone (Arum, HBO, Media) helped cover it up. And that rankled Floyd to no end.



You have a great misunderstanding of the how's, why's, and when's of PPV. But I think Cshel has done a great job in addressing some of it. I'll simply add that 1. Networks are big on statistics. They don't do things for kicks and giggles. 2. PPV is a money-making ordeal. It's not about exposure for a fighter. Its not about supposition. It's about proven numbers. 3. PPV requires millions in advertising, fees, etc., which the network is partly responsible for. 4. Networks are not in the business of losing money, so if it doesn't make dollars, then it doesn't make sense to do. This is why Canelo has yet to have a PPV of his own. He is not ready. He has yet to have a breakout performance when he had the stage and the casual fans on the undercard of FM's ticket. No one is clamoring to PAY to VIEW this kid. Not yet. The undercard of a PPV star is where you can make your mark towards becoming a star within your own right. That was his time to shine. And obviously, the statistics collected by the networks show that his star isn't bright enough to make him PPV worthy. Not yet.

I think it's reckless to hear someone suggest that an unproven and up and coming young star is somehow responsible for the PPV numbers of a proven, PPV record-holder. It's just madness. Stop listening to Dan Rafael. He's a shill and a hack and writes to his emotions.

Even a Miguel Cotto (and Shane Mosely) proven stars (significantly more popular with the casual, PPV buying fan) don't register much in terms of PPV numbers on a Mayeather card, much less Canelo Alvarez...? SMH

Networks are not emotional or subjective. It's business. Therefore it's all about the numbers. If Canelo Alvarez was capable of putting up (like Chavez Jr.) a few hundred-thousand buys on his own...he would have headlined his own PPV, two fights ago.



Canelo was going to fight on PPV this past summer, but the fight with Williams didn't go through and the fight with Kirkland didn't go through. That left Canelo with Ortiz, but then Ortiz lost. All of those fights were going to be PPV....but the opponent just didn't handle business or got injured.

I disagree with you about a fighter like Canelo continuing to fight on the Mayweather's undercard. That is not how you go about building your reputation. Canelo vs Trout is not undercard material and at this point Canelo is not an undercard fighter. It's that simple. Canelo was ok with fighting his biggest fight on Floyd's undercard if a guarantee was in place (provided both fighters won), but Floyd didn't want to commit. At that point there is no reason for Canelo to fight on a Floyd Mayweather PPV event. I don't see why that is so unreasonable to so many on this board.

I have no problem with Floyd not wanting to fight Canelo this fall. IMO Floyd is just a once a year fighter. I don't see him fighting in the fall. If he does, I think he faces Berto, Alexander, or even a rematch with Judah if Judah beats Garcia. I don't think Floyd has the desire to be a consistent fighter anymore and THAT is why he doesn't want to lock himself in.
KOpower
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Apr 9 2013, 11:21 AM) *
Allow me to explain the two bold points...

That was floating around, but I don't remember Floyd mentioning it, but I could be wrong. I remember him saying that he will fight in May and September, but I guess Oscar got the happy pants and inserted Canelo's name into that September slot.

Now, the second point is what ruined this whole "deal" a few weeks ago. How does this sound?...Canelo tries to "offer" Floyd an undercard fight, an "explosive" undercard fight, by taking on Trout for May 4th. NOW, why would Canelo go off and give Floyd an ultimatum, when this whole "both winners fight each other in September" deal was already verbally agreed upon?

Maybe it's because he knew that he would get his ass kicked by Trout on May 4th. Think about it, would a Trout ass-whoopin' be as bad, when you already have a lofty payday set up with Floyd 4 months later? What sense does that make? So you're telling me that Canelo wasn't going to fight ANYBODY on May 4th or April 20th, until a fight with floyd was signed?

I mean this dude (Canelo) DOES have a careerto follow through with, so why is Floyd's decision of him fighting Trout, holding him up? What if Canelo was fighting Angulo on May 4th, would he be begging for a signed agreement to fight in September...or is the thought of losing to Trout, that makes him want that guarantee?

What if Canelo/Trout fought on May 4th, Trout beat him, but the September contract was already signed? How would that look? The guy who Floyd was supposed to be fighting, got beat, but the winner didn't get his shot at Floyd? Sounds like some serious doubt was going on with Canelo's team.


What is the alternative for Canelo? I mean really...do you honestly think he should just become Floyd's bitch and fight on his undercard until Floyd deems him worthy? I don't think so. Canelo is going his own way and I think it's good for both guys. There are MANY good fights for Canelo. Trout is LEGIT, Sergio Martinez is out there and a fight with Cotto would be HUGE. Canelo vs Guerro could be exciting and Kirkland is still out there. Hello, Canelo vs Berto or Thurman could be great.

It is time for Canelo to stop fighting on Mayweather undercards.
KOpower
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Apr 9 2013, 10:59 AM) *
Stop it with the numbers stuff. If anything, we can say that more people bout the card because his opponent, and not this "fluctuated" star power of his. Answer this, before ordering this card, how many people knew Shane compared to Canelo? There's your answer.

Again, I'll compare Canelo and Julio's HBO views from 2011 and 2012...views don't equate to buys, sorry. I'd watch Golovkin fight any day of the week, but I sure as hell didn't buy his recent low-budget PPV against Ishida, regardless of the fact that it was nowhere near $45-$70.

So...Julio's miiiiilions of viewers equated to how many PPV buys in the biggest fight of his life?! Around 400K?! Stop it man. If Floyd fought on Showtime Championship next weekend for FREE, then Im sure their view rate for that night would be more than his recent 1.5M BUYS. Right? I'm sure people would loooove to see Floyd (to win or lose) for free, but not many are willing to cough up $70.

Answer this, how many people do you think would be willing to PAY anywhere from $45-$70 to see Canelo fight Shane Mosley? I'll wait. They were PUSHING Canelo's fight, hell, you see that they aired it a week later on HBO when they replayed Mayweather/Cotto. That fight wasn't that big to drive up sales bro, sorry.

Let's be real here, Canelo can't GIVE anybody AYTHING, so for you to say that Canelo was willing to GIVE Floyd the Trout fight on his undercard, is laughable. De La Homo's hand (and probably something else) is up Canelo's ass and telling him what to do and say, he is under contract, or am I missing something?

You're probably one of those retards that thinks Manny can make his own decisions and offer fighters certain amounts of money...or "take the smaller split". Hell, that retard can't even incriminate himself and offer to take the smaller split of a purse. laugh.gif

Just stop failing man...


You can continue to make up facts all you want but it won't help. The deal, according to every published report I have seen, was Canelo would fight Floyd IF they both won on May 4th. There is NOTHING about it being locked in regardless of the outcome of Canelo's fight with Trout. If you have ANYTHING that backs up YOUR claim, then please produce it b/c I am open to changing my opinion.
Cshel86
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 9 2013, 10:48 PM) *
What is the alternative for Canelo? I mean really...do you honestly think he should just become Floyd's bitch and fight on his undercard until Floyd deems him worthy? I don't think so. Canelo is going his own way and I think it's good for both guys. There are MANY good fights for Canelo. Trout is LEGIT, Sergio Martinez is out there and a fight with Cotto would be HUGE. Canelo vs Guerro could be exciting and Kirkland is still out there. Hello, Canelo vs Berto or Thurman could be great.

It is time for Canelo to stop fighting on Mayweather undercards.

You're naming some great fights for a fighter who probably wont fight them. laugh.gif

QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 9 2013, 10:51 PM) *
You can continue to make up facts all you want but it won't help. The deal, according to every published report I have seen, was Canelo would fight Floyd IF they both won on May 4th. There is NOTHING about it being locked in regardless of the outcome of Canelo's fight with Trout. If you have ANYTHING that backs up YOUR claim, then please produce it b/c I am open to changing my opinion.

The funny thing is, we had no idea who Canelo was going to fight for a long time, he was just riding off of everybody else's name. No need to be open to changing your opinion, I like you for the jackass that you are, it makes things interesting.

If there was nothing locked in about a Floyd fight in September regardless of the outcome of Canelo/Trout, then why in the flying fuck was Canelo's ass hurting about Floyd not signing the contract? If the outcome wasn't riding on whether or not a September fight with Floyd would happen, then again, why was Canelo pressing for it?

I asked you the same question in two different forms, just in case you were too dumb to understand the first time around. The ball's in your court
KOpower
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Apr 9 2013, 11:08 PM) *
You're naming some great fights for a fighter who probably wont fight them. laugh.gif


The funny thing is, we had no idea who Canelo was going to fight for a long time, he was just riding off of everybody else's name. No need to be open to changing your opinion, I like you for the jackass that you are, it makes things interesting.

If there was nothing locked in about a Floyd fight in September regardless of the outcome of Canelo/Trout, then why in the flying fuck was Canelo's ass hurting about Floyd not signing the contract? If the outcome wasn't riding on whether or not a September fight with Floyd would happen, then again, why was Canelo pressing for it?

I asked you the same question in two different forms, just in case you were too dumb to understand the first time around. The ball's in your court



Come on, he was all set to fight Paul Williams. He was all set to fight Kirkland. He was all set to fight Ortiz. You know it and I know it so why do you have to make stuff up? Canelo wasn't riding off of anyone's name there...he was going to fight all 3 on a PPV event but through no fault of his own the fights all fell through. Honestly, if you want to deny and debate that FACT, is it really worth talking to you?

What Canelo wanted was pretty simple. He fought on Floyd's last 2 PPV cards in hopes that it would pave the way for a fight against Mayweather in the future. Well Mayweather's team obviously wanted Canelo-Trout on the undercard (and for good reason) so they dangled the possible fight with Mayweather in front of him n hopes that Canelo would accept. Canelo said yes...but instead of HOPING that Mayweather would eventually agree, Canelo wanted in writing. Mayweather declined so Canelo took the Trout fight and made his own event.

There is nothing wrong with either side, so where is the argument from Mayweather fans coming from?

And like I said before, every published report says that the deal was Canelo v Mayweather IF Canelo beat Trout. Period. Like I said, find me one shred of evidence that says otherwise and I will do further research. You have none because you know that was the way it went down. For some really, REALLY odd reason you don't want to give that talking point up. It's sort of weird...
mrchitown
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 9 2013, 09:48 PM) *
What is the alternative for Canelo? I mean really...do you honestly think he should just become Floyd's bitch and fight on his undercard until Floyd deems him worthy? I don't think so. Canelo is going his own way and I think it's good for both guys. There are MANY good fights for Canelo. Trout is LEGIT, Sergio Martinez is out there and a fight with Cotto would be HUGE. Canelo vs Guerro could be exciting and Kirkland is still out there. Hello, Canelo vs Berto or Thurman could be great.

It is time for Canelo to stop fighting on Mayweather undercards.


So you think Canelo fighting Berto or Thurman is a suitable fight? And even Guererro? This is the knock on the kid, he needs to fight legit 154lbers. His whole career is feasting on smaller fighters, I like Canelo but he has to show and do more. Granted he's facinga legit boxer in Trout and I don't think he'll beat Trout but he'll need to do more then that. He needs more fighters at his weight like a Kirkland as you mentioned, how about Lara..it's plenty of people at his weight he can fight. It's time to take the training wheels off. And as far as him fighting Sergio, that won't happen, he'll get cooked
checkleft
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 9 2013, 10:29 PM) *
Come on, he was all set to fight Paul Williams. He was all set to fight Kirkland. He was all set to fight Ortiz. You know it and I know it so why do you have to make stuff up? Canelo wasn't riding off of anyone's name there...he was going to fight all 3 on a PPV event but through no fault of his own the fights all fell through. Honestly, if you want to deny and debate that FACT, is it really worth talking to you?

What Canelo wanted was pretty simple. He fought on Floyd's last 2 PPV cards in hopes that it would pave the way for a fight against Mayweather in the future. Well Mayweather's team obviously wanted Canelo-Trout on the undercard (and for good reason) so they dangled the possible fight with Mayweather in front of him n hopes that Canelo would accept. Canelo said yes...but instead of HOPING that Mayweather would eventually agree, Canelo wanted in writing. Mayweather declined so Canelo took the Trout fight and made his own event.

There is nothing wrong with either side, so where is the argument from Mayweather fans coming from?

And like I said before, every published report says that the deal was Canelo v Mayweather IF Canelo beat Trout. Period. Like I said, find me one shred of evidence that says otherwise and I will do further research. You have none because you know that was the way it went down. For some really, REALLY odd reason you don't want to give that talking point up. It's sort of weird...

The argument isn't from "mayweather fans" its from boxing fans. I could care less if they fought on separate cards or the same card. The argument is Canelo, in terms of real boxing fans, is absolutely nobody to be demanding a mayweather fight. He has fought no one, he has done nothing, his belt is an accessory, a gift. Yes fights fell through with two decent 154 pounders who had not looked good at all in their passed 2-3 fights, but does that warrant him to go down to lower divisions to just pad Gus already padded record? What about molina? Lara? Delvin? Bundrage? Instead he has his sights set on the ortiz lopez winner!?! Two guys who not too long ago were Jr welterweights. He was a joke before this fight got signed, and even Mexican fans like me know it. At least jcc Jr took his schooling like a man and showed some grit.

Btw I can bet money that the other two times Canelo was on mayweathers cards it was because of golden boys agenda not because of the mayweather camp (Wtf was that all about). He would get way more exposure on cards like that than a normal hbo showcase back then.
VJones
QUOTE (KOpower @ Apr 9 2013, 09:44 PM) *
Canelo was going to fight on PPV this past summer, but the fight with Williams didn't go through and the fight with Kirkland didn't go through. That left Canelo with Ortiz, but then Ortiz lost. All of those fights were going to be PPV....but the opponent just didn't handle business or got injured.

I disagree with you about a fighter like Canelo continuing to fight on the Mayweather's undercard. That is not how you go about building your reputation. Canelo vs Trout is not undercard material and at this point Canelo is not an undercard fighter. It's that simple. Canelo was ok with fighting his biggest fight on Floyd's undercard if a guarantee was in place (provided both fighters won), but Floyd didn't want to commit. At that point there is no reason for Canelo to fight on a Floyd Mayweather PPV event. I don't see why that is so unreasonable to so many on this board.

I have no problem with Floyd not wanting to fight Canelo this fall. IMO Floyd is just a once a year fighter. I don't see him fighting in the fall. If he does, I think he faces Berto, Alexander, or even a rematch with Judah if Judah beats Garcia. I don't think Floyd has the desire to be a consistent fighter anymore and THAT is why he doesn't want to lock himself in.


KO, I wasn't suggesting that Canelo continue to stay on Floyd's undercard per se. It really is up to his promoter to decide their best strategy for his career. What I mentioned was his failed opportunity to have what one would call a "breakout performance" when he twice had the platform on Floyd's undercard. Something that would attract casual American fans (ie a knockout or complete dominance or supreme skill or even charisma or...how about a command of the English language.) He did/had none of that. And thus, any network worth their salt is not going to lose money, just to give this kid a PPV, so he can say he had one. Because as I stated, the only purpose of a PPV is PROFIT.

Btw, it is NOT factual that fights with Williams, Kirkland, and Ortiz would have been PPV. They were being considered. And I can promise you that the Kirkland fight would not have been a PPV fight. And the Williams fight more than likely would not have met the muster either. Ortiz however...a good possibility. And why? Because Ortiz danced with FM (on PPV) and even in a humiliating defeat became all the more popular by his mere presence in the ring with the biggest PPV draw, along with all of the mainstream media attention that came with it. In other words, he was exposed to a broader market of buyers (not to be confused with viewers)...and some of which became fans and some haters and some just now know his name.

Casual fans have to remember you and know you by name to 'buy' into you. Canelo hasn't gained that appeal with American fans. But GBP is doing their best to try and get him there...including having him learn English.

Make no mistake, Ortiz would have been the A-side of that PPV. It's simply about numbers. Ask yourself, would ABC network put Canelo on Dancing With The Stars as they've done with Victor? I'll answer. Heck no! Who is he? With the exception of hardcore boxing fans in America, who the heck is Canelo? But guess what, if I said to my circle (of mostly casual fans): "Remember the red-headed Mexican on Floyd Mayweather's undercard, who fought Shane Mosley?" Then some of them would remember him. Because he was on Floyd's undercard. No other reason, because Canelo himself did nothing memorable (to a casual boxing fan) in that fight.

I think the very way in which you perceive the business of PPV and how/why fights are made, is why many of us are taking issue with your statements. You seem to believe for instance that Canelo makes his own decisions. Not the case. GBP is his promotional unit. They are making the decisions for Canelo. And Golden Boy Promotions is who wants Canelo on Floyd's undercard...not Team Mayweather. Why? Because its beneficial to Canelo's career. It's the big leagues and an opportunity for him to steal the show with a breakout performance. Team Mayweather would certainly enjoy having a rising star and another great fight on the card...but 1. Floyd's money is guaranteed and 2. He's already proven he can do over a million PPVs, so what is the great benefit there?

So the notion of Canelo "allowing" his fight to be on Mayweather's undercard...as if he's doing Floyd a favor is absurd. But Canelo is 22 years old, pampered, and somewhat delusional...so he'll learn. Maybe the hard way. Because I can also promise you this...without fighting Floyd Mayweather, he'll never climb to Floyd's level of popularity or earnings...anymore than Floyd or Manny would have without Oscar.

It is also NOT factual that an agreement was drawn or that it stated "in the case of both fighters winning". Team Mayweather will definitely take issue with that. The only people spinning that tale AFTER some minor backlash, was Oscar, Canelo's Manager, and Dan Rafael.

Note: if you read an "article" (especially on the internet) and it doesn't bother to have a quote from BOTH sides and its unsourced; you can rest assured it's some hackish, non-journalistic, foolishness. A fact-based article requires all sides of the story. Most of what you're reading online is not FACT...it's opinion...and worse, propaganda. Boxing is so dirty...
VJones
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 10 2013, 12:20 AM) *
So you think Canelo fighting Berto or Thurman is a suitable fight? And even Guererro? This is the knock on the kid, he needs to fight legit 154lbers. His whole career is feasting on smaller fighters, I like Canelo but he has to show and do more. Granted he's facinga legit boxer in Trout and I don't think he'll beat Trout but he'll need to do more then that. He needs more fighters at his weight like a Kirkland as you mentioned, how about Lara..it's plenty of people at his weight he can fight. It's time to take the training wheels off. And as far as him fighting Sergio, that won't happen, he'll get cooked


Agreed.

QUOTE (checkleft @ Apr 10 2013, 12:56 AM) *
The argument isn't from "mayweather fans" its from boxing fans. I could care less if they fought on separate cards or the same card. The argument is Canelo, in terms of real boxing fans, is absolutely nobody to be demanding a mayweather fight. He has fought no one, he has done nothing, his belt is an accessory, a gift. Yes fights fell through with two decent 154 pounders who had not looked good at all in their passed 2-3 fights, but does that warrant him to go down to lower divisions to just pad Gus already padded record? What about molina? Lara? Delvin? Bundrage? Instead he has his sights set on the ortiz lopez winner!?! Two guys who not too long ago were Jr welterweights. He was a joke before this fight got signed, and even Mexican fans like me know it. At least jcc Jr took his schooling like a man and showed some grit.

Btw I can bet money that the other two times Canelo was on mayweathers cards it was because of golden boys agenda not because of the mayweather camp (Wtf was that all about). He would get way more exposure on cards like that than a normal hbo showcase back then.


+1
VJones
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 9 2013, 06:20 PM) *
excellent post.

i think you all make valid points...but i agree that canelo is in no position to be making demands. floyd has been very good about selecting the right opposition and the promoters have been good about putting together solid undercards. this next ppv will be no different. i think floyd would have benefitted with canelo on the undercard moreso than mares. i'll agree that canelo is not ppv worthy...but if he should beat trout i think he is without doubt floyds biggest payday like KOpower has suggested.


Definitely Prof...in the sea of potential fights (within 147/154)...and within the current landscape of GBP/May Promo vs TR/HBO warfare, Canelo is more than likely the biggest payday for FM. Khan however could rival or offer more, with UK buys...
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.