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Full Version: Rigondeau's skill and ring intelligence is on par with Mayweather's
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Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 16 2013, 04:05 PM) *
i just keep going back to his comments about rigondeaux "not being worthy"....and "what has he done? blah,blah,blah..." donaire talked so much shit and got took to school by a dude with 11 fights. he's still talking out of his ass. maybe the rematch is in order? if donaire takes the poor advice of robert garcia and tries to pressure rigondeaux....and throw more punches....he's going to get ktfo'd in the rematch.


I meant to say I will not discredit Rigondeaux's perfromance. My bad,
sduck
QUOTE (Aware @ Apr 16 2013, 09:38 PM) *
Has Mayweather fought a better quality opponent than Donaire? I.e. a p4p fighter in their prime that is bigger than him. Corrales is not as good as Donaire imo. Is JL Castillo as good as Donaire? Also, how easy does Rigondeaux beat Pacquiao at 122? Donaire is clearly better in the skill department than Pacquiao.

Genaro Hernandez

QUOTE (dre98 @ Apr 16 2013, 11:08 PM) *
Guerrero dad imitation of floyd and roger:

http://www.boxingscene.com/video-guerreros...-routine--64496




lol and you know who else tried to mock him and then got schooled.
dre98
QUOTE (sduck @ Apr 17 2013, 09:07 AM) *
Genaro Hernandez


lol and you know who else tried to mock him and then got schooled.


I was thinking Genaro as well...zab judah has good skills as well...just fades...Mosley has the skills but then again i take dat back because he is more of a brawler


yea ricky hatton.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Aware @ Apr 16 2013, 10:38 PM) *
Has Mayweather fought a better quality opponent than Donaire? I.e. a p4p fighter in their prime that is bigger than him. Corrales is not as good as Donaire imo. Is JL Castillo as good as Donaire? Also, how easy does Rigondeaux beat Pacquiao at 122? Donaire is clearly better in the skill department than Pacquiao.


i haven't said it yet....but i get where u are going with this, and i agree....rigondeaux's win over donaire pretty much trumps floyd and ward's best wins.
daprofessor
QUOTE (dre98 @ Apr 17 2013, 02:52 PM) *
I was thinking Genaro as well...zab judah has good skills as well...just fades...Mosley has the skills but then again i take dat back because he is more of a brawler


yea ricky hatton.


genaro (rip) zab and hatton were never as highly regarded as donaire. i don't think any of them ever won fighter of the year or were that high up on the pound for pound rankings.
daprofessor
deleted.
Aware
So we have established that Mayweather has never fought someone as good as Donaire. Now again tell me why Rigondeaux is not on Mayweather's level. I am not saying he is better, just on his level.
Aware
Click that to see it. It's the best I can do sad.gif
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 17 2013, 02:03 PM) *
genaro (rip) zab and hatton were never as highly regarded as donaire. i don't think any of them ever won fighter of the year or were that high up on the pound for pound rankings.


I think Zab was more skilled then Donaire back in his day, if he could've won at least 1 of the perceived "BIG" fights this wouldn't be a conversation. I see what you and dude are saying but Donaire is more highly regarded as you said then skilled to me, and that's saying alot because Donaire is a higlhly skilled figher hell I rate Shane above Donaire skill wise..part of the reason Donaire won fight of the year was because the media fell in love with his yr round drug testing....and I can;t agree with Rigo trumping either of the best W's for Ward or Mayweather..skill wise Dawson is a beast, he's just a mental midget.
Aware
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 17 2013, 04:30 PM) *
I think Zab was more skilled then Donaire back in his day, if he could've won at least 1 of the perceived "BIG" fights this wouldn't be a conversation. I see what you and dude are saying but Donaire is more highly regarded as you said then skilled to me, and that's saying alot because Donaire is a higlhly skilled figher hell I rate Shane above Donaire skill wise..part of the reason Donaire won fight of the year was because the media fell in love with his yr round drug testing....and I can;t agree with Rigo trumping either of the best W's for Ward or Mayweather..skill wise Dawson is a beast, he's just a mental midget.

Dawson was obviously severely weight drained against Ward. No way Ward is able to TKO Dawson at his comfortable weight. I think it would have been an even fight at 175. Skillwise Judah is defintely better than Donaire, but Donaire is certainly the better fighter. Mosley is greater than Donaire so far, but Shane Mosley was past his prime when he fought Mayweather.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 17 2013, 04:30 PM) *
I think Zab was more skilled then Donaire back in his day, if he could've won at least 1 of the perceived "BIG" fights this wouldn't be a conversation. I see what you and dude are saying but Donaire is more highly regarded as you said then skilled to me, and that's saying alot because Donaire is a higlhly skilled figher hell I rate Shane above Donaire skill wise..part of the reason Donaire won fight of the year was because the media fell in love with his yr round drug testing....and I can;t agree with Rigo trumping either of the best W's for Ward or Mayweather..skill wise Dawson is a beast, he's just a mental midget.



i disagree. zab has never been on the level with donaire. he's had some great wins...but i think donaire has more skill and accomplishment.

shane...u could make the case at 135...he was unbeatable at the time. above 135...he was just a little above average.

the thing to consider here....nonito move up in weight and his best year came last year where he got the fighter of the year award for his 4 wins. i thought jmm should have been awarded fighter of the year...and u could have made a case for guerrero as well....but i think his four wins moreso than his testing won him that award.

like aware said...wards win over dawson is diminished by the weight drain.

floyds win over zab is diminished by the fact that he lost to baldomir right before he fought floyd. i think floyds best win was against corrales.

i think rigondeaux's win over donaire trumps all of those wins.
mrchitown
QUOTE (Aware @ Apr 17 2013, 03:54 PM) *
Dawson was obviously severely weight drained against Ward. No way Ward is able to TKO Dawson at his comfortable weight. I think it would have been an even fight at 175. Skillwise Judah is defintely better than Donaire, but Donaire is certainly the better fighter. Mosley is greater than Donaire so far, but Shane Mosley was past his prime when he fought Mayweather.


I agree with everything you said, but I think Ward might KO Dawson at light-heavy. Not because of the weight but because he's mentally fragile

at the bolded, you raise an interesting point. I was talking to people at my gym about when a fighter's prime is. And truthfully that's open to interpretation. Truthfully an athletes prime is seen by most as late 20 and ending sometime in their 30's. But that's not really true, some athletes don't hit their prime til later. A person's prime is not a collective issue but an individual but most fans of sports tend to lump them into the same category...now as far as Mosley, I think he started to slide after the Mayweather fight, this is the same guy who tore thru Margarito. What could have hurt Shane in that fight is the layoff. Remember he was supposed to fight Berto that year in January not Floyd in May. He hasn't looked sharp since the 2nd round of the Mayweather fight. Was he past his prime is open to one's interpretation but I don't see it as so
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 17 2013, 05:54 PM) *
i disagree. zab has never been on the level with donaire. he's had some great wins...but i think donaire has more skill and accomplishment.

shane...u could make the case at 135...he was unbeatable at the time. above 135...he was just a little above average.

the thing to consider here....nonito move up in weight and his best year came last year where he got the fighter of the year award for his 4 wins. i thought jmm should have been awarded fighter of the year...and u could have made a case for guerrero as well....but i think his four wins moreso than his testing won him that award.

like aware said...wards win over dawson is diminished by the weight drain.

floyds win over zab is diminished by the fact that he lost to baldomir right before he fought floyd. i think floyds best win was against corrales.

i think rigondeaux's win over donaire trumps all of those wins.

Aint no way in hell you could make a case for Guerrero, WTF is going on lol....Aydin and Berto warrant that award lol. NO!!!

If we diminishing wins then you can do that with every fighter, Donaire was fighter of the year and he didn
t beat nobody on his way to that award that posed a serious threat to him...we can diminish Rigo's win over Donaire because he didn't have time to train with Garcia too right??? I mean if we gon go on this diminishing fest then let's keep it even.

If your going to diminish the wins you spoke of above then this one is no different. And IMO, if Zab and Donaire matched up at the same weight in the same era, Zab would get him. Donaire ever since he burst onto the scene with that spectacular KO, has been loading up his shots. Look how he fought this past Saturday, he always looks for the left hook. He's no hype job and he's skilled but this Donaire you speak of has been getting by on using one weapon lately. At least when Zab didn't rock the gold tooth he had a diverse aresnal
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 17 2013, 09:27 PM) *
Aint no way in hell you could make a case for Guerrero, WTF is going on lol....Aydin and Berto warrant that award lol. NO!!!

If we diminishing wins then you can do that with every fighter, Donaire was fighter of the year and he didn
t beat nobody on his way to that award that posed a serious threat to him...we can diminish Rigo's win over Donaire because he didn't have time to train with Garcia too right??? I mean if we gon go on this diminishing fest then let's keep it even.

If your going to diminish the wins you spoke of above then this one is no different. And IMO, if Zab and Donaire matched up at the same weight in the same era, Zab would get him. Donaire ever since he burst onto the scene with that spectacular KO, has been loading up his shots. Look how he fought this past Saturday, he always looks for the left hook. He's no hype job and he's skilled but this Donaire you speak of has been getting by on using one weapon lately. At least when Zab didn't rock the gold tooth he had a diverse aresnal


not sure why guerrero is even being mentioned? laugh.gif

i was saying floyds wins over zab and shane weren't as good as rigondeaux's win over donaire.

i think floyds best win was over corrales.(rip)

we can debate that if u'd like.
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 17 2013, 09:00 PM) *
not sure why guerrero is even being mentioned? laugh.gif

i was saying floyds wins over zab and shane weren't as good as rigondeaux's win over donaire.

i think floyds best win was over corrales.(rip)

we can debate that if u'd like.


You must be related to Guerrero lol...Cali got you backtracking just like Robert does lol. I started off with that because you said you could make a case that he was fighter of the yr and I say ducktales.. I personally think it should've been Marquez

I obviously don't agree with your assessment on Rigo having a better win then Floyd or Ward, truth be told I have to see how Donaire fares moving forward. I picked Rigo to win based on Donaire's limitations.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 17 2013, 10:48 PM) *
You must be related to Guerrero lol...Cali got you backtracking just like Robert does lol. I started off with that because you said you could make a case that he was fighter of the yr and I say ducktales.. I personally think it should've been Marquez

I obviously don't agree with your assessment on Rigo having a better win then Floyd or Ward, truth be told I have to see how Donaire fares moving forward. I picked Rigo to win based on Donaire's limitations.


oh. yeah...i said marquez should have got it and yes...i stand by my comment that guerrero was more deserving than donaire. when was the last time a guy jumped two weight classes and beat the number 1 ranked guy and a former champion? that was a huge statement when you consider the fact that guerrero was off a year due to injury. imo...marquez starching pac and guerrero jumping two weight classes both trump donaires mediocre 4 wins against guys most ppl never heard of. but that's just me. i'm not backtracking shit! laugh.gif
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 18 2013, 01:52 PM) *
oh. yeah...i said marquez should have got it and yes...i stand by my comment that guerrero was more deserving than donaire. when was the last time a guy jumped two weight classes and beat the number 1 ranked guy and a former champion? that was a huge statement when you consider the fact that guerrero was off a year due to injury. imo...marquez starching pac and guerrero jumping two weight classes both trump donaires mediocre 4 wins against guys most ppl never heard of. but that's just me. i'm not backtracking shit! laugh.gif


True Marquez should have got it and I agree that Guerrero was more deserving then Nonito, but Marquez should've took it home last year. The people who have votes, I'd like to know the reasoning behind Marquez not getting the award

I still want to see how Donaire fares moving forward in his career, if he gets back on track and displays the talent that we all know he has, that's going to make Rigo's win over him look all the more impressive. I hope they rematch some day, and if they do I think Rigo beats him again and in even better fashion the next time
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 17 2013, 06:54 PM) *
i disagree. zab has never been on the level with donaire. he's had some great wins...but i think donaire has more skill and accomplishment.

shane...u could make the case at 135...he was unbeatable at the time. above 135...he was just a little above average.

the thing to consider here....nonito move up in weight and his best year came last year where he got the fighter of the year award for his 4 wins. i thought jmm should have been awarded fighter of the year...and u could have made a case for guerrero as well....but i think his four wins moreso than his testing won him that award.

like aware said...wards win over dawson is diminished by the weight drain.

floyds win over zab is diminished by the fact that he lost to baldomir right before he fought floyd. i think floyds best win was against corrales.

i think rigondeaux's win over donaire trumps all of those wins.

Mosley was an absolute manimal at 135.

But I dont get how you can say wards win was diminished by weight (which I agree with) and fail to mention donaire fought very small guys, unknowns, and guys looking to cash out the four fights he got his foy award with.

But rigos win is definitely more impressive than a lot of mayweather wins. The fight actually reminded me a lot of the corrales fight, funny that you mentioned it.

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 17 2013, 09:21 PM) *
I agree with everything you said, but I think Ward might KO Dawson at light-heavy. Not because of the weight but because he's mentally fragile

at the bolded, you raise an interesting point. I was talking to people at my gym about when a fighter's prime is. And truthfully that's open to interpretation. Truthfully an athletes prime is seen by most as late 20 and ending sometime in their 30's. But that's not really true, some athletes don't hit their prime til later. A person's prime is not a collective issue but an individual but most fans of sports tend to lump them into the same category...now as far as Mosley, I think he started to slide after the Mayweather fight, this is the same guy who tore thru Margarito. What could have hurt Shane in that fight is the layoff. Remember he was supposed to fight Berto that year in January not Floyd in May. He hasn't looked sharp since the 2nd round of the Mayweather fight. Was he past his prime is open to one's interpretation but I don't see it as so


Not only had mosley just tore marg a new asshole but he also put on a great performance against cotto at his absolute peak in a great fight. Back then cottos skill might not have been what it is now but he was an absolute bull mentally. It's a tragedy that he lost that level of confidence the way he did
mrchitown
QUOTE (checkleft @ Apr 18 2013, 02:06 PM) *
Not only had mosley just tore marg a new asshole but he also put on a great performance against cotto at his absolute peak in a great fight. Back then cottos skill might not have been what it is now but he was an absolute bull mentally. It's a tragedy that he lost that level of confidence the way he did


I sometimes wish that Margarito fight never happened. He hasn't been the same since then and we see it. He used to engage and fight beautifully. He does it in spots now but everytime he fights we see him get on that bike, and sometimes he does it when he doesn't need to...his fight with Mosley was highly entertaining. Now that was some great back and forth action between 2 great fighters
Franchize
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 18 2013, 03:31 PM) *
I sometimes wish that Margarito fight never happened. He hasn't been the same since then and we see it. He used to engage and fight beautifully. He does it in spots now but everytime he fights we see him get on that bike, and sometimes he does it when he doesn't need to...his fight with Mosley was highly entertaining. Now that was some great back and forth action between 2 great fighters


I'm surprised the outcry for towards Magarito possible cheating hasn't been heavier. I think that fight will have long term ramifications on Cotto even beyond his boxing career.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 18 2013, 03:05 PM) *
True Marquez should have got it and I agree that Guerrero was more deserving then Nonito, but Marquez should've took it home last year. The people who have votes, I'd like to know the reasoning behind Marquez not getting the award

I still want to see how Donaire fares moving forward in his career, if he gets back on track and displays the talent that we all know he has, that's going to make Rigo's win over him look all the more impressive. I hope they rematch some day, and if they do I think Rigo beats him again and in even better fashion the next time



real simple. those ppl were jaded pactards. laugh.gif



daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Apr 18 2013, 03:06 PM) *
Mosley was an absolute manimal at 135.

But I dont get how you can say wards win was diminished by weight (which I agree with) and fail to mention donaire fought very small guys, unknowns, and guys looking to cash out the four fights he got his foy award with.

But rigos win is definitely more impressive than a lot of mayweather wins. The fight actually reminded me a lot of the corrales fight, funny that you mentioned it.



Not only had mosley just tore marg a new asshole but he also put on a great performance against cotto at his absolute peak in a great fight. Back then cottos skill might not have been what it is now but he was an absolute bull mentally. It's a tragedy that he lost that level of confidence the way he did


i never thought much of donaire's 4 wins.
checkleft
Am I the only one that thinks Danny Garcia should have gotten more consideration? Didn't he beat holt morales twice and khan all last year?
mgrover
Mosley was an animal and maybe on PEDs. It's why I really can't credit him at times because I'll just think hmmmm.

Also Garcia? I think he was bailed out by his power in the Khan fight.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Apr 18 2013, 05:24 PM) *
Am I the only one that thinks Danny Garcia should have gotten more consideration? Didn't he beat holt morales twice and khan all last year?


khan and morales2. not exactly fighter of the year type stuff...but when u consider he was the underdog going into the khan fight....he was considered.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 18 2013, 05:49 PM) *
Mosley was an animal and maybe on PEDs. It's why I really can't credit him at times because I'll just think hmmmm.

Also Garcia? I think he was bailed out by his power in the Khan fight.


khan was so predictable in that fight. angel called the round. i never thought amir was doing any real damage in the early stages of that fight. i knew the ko was going to happen as well.
checkleft
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 18 2013, 04:49 PM) *
Mosley was an animal and maybe on PEDs. It's why I really can't credit him at times because I'll just think hmmmm.

Also Garcia? I think he was bailed out by his power in the Khan fight.

I give credit to his power but I thought it was his timing that did it. He has very good timing, you can have all the power in the world but it doesn't mean anything if you can't time a punch especially with a guy as fast as khan.
dre98
QUOTE (checkleft @ Apr 18 2013, 03:06 PM) *
Mosley was an absolute manimal at 135.

But I dont get how you can say wards win was diminished by weight (which I agree with) and fail to mention donaire fought very small guys, unknowns, and guys looking to cash out the four fights he got his foy award with.

But rigos win is definitely more impressive than a lot of mayweather wins. The fight actually reminded me a lot of the corrales fight, funny that you mentioned it.



Not only had mosley just tore marg a new asshole but he also put on a great performance against cotto at his absolute peak in a great fight. Back then cottos skill might not have been what it is now but he was an absolute bull mentally. It's a tragedy that he lost that level of confidence the way he did



Yea I dont really think Donaire fought anybody credible. Almost like Canelo type of think where you waiting for him to fight somebody with great skills.


I felt like Sugar Shane was in his prim in the floyd fight. Cotto looked better in the floyd fight then when he fought mosley. Cotto's skills looked alot better in the floyd fight.
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 19 2013, 12:42 AM) *
khan was so predictable in that fight. angel called the round. i never thought amir was doing any real damage in the early stages of that fight. i knew the ko was going to happen as well.


Maybe but getting hit with everything but the kitchen sink isn't a good look. I mean where was the defence. He knocks him down, doesn't finish and then starts getting countered by Khan. Early stoppage in my opinion Khan got up and knew were he was clearly.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 18 2013, 08:10 PM) *
Maybe but getting hit with everything but the kitchen sink isn't a good look. I mean where was the defence. He knocks him down, doesn't finish and then starts getting countered by Khan. Early stoppage in my opinion Khan got up and knew were he was clearly.


he got up....he knew where he was.....but he looked like he was standing on the deck of a ship at sea. laugh.gif
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 19 2013, 01:15 AM) *
he got up....he knew where he was.....but he looked like he was standing on the deck of a ship at sea. laugh.gif


This is why I don't like Khan he puts holes in my arguments lol. I'd want to see a rematch tbh but we'll see. Depends how badly he wants to stay at 140lb
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 18 2013, 08:16 PM) *
This is why I don't like Khan he puts holes in my arguments lol. I'd want to see a rematch tbh but we'll see. Depends how badly he wants to stay at 140lb


he should beat diaz easily. he then gets the winner of garcia/judah vs mattysse. i think he loses to matthysse and garcia. judah isn't going to get past garcia. depending on how bad garcia/matthysse beat each other up...he may have a shot at beating the winner. who knows?
mgrover
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 19 2013, 01:20 AM) *
he should beat diaz easily. he then gets the winner of garcia/judah vs mattysse. i think he loses to matthysse and garcia. judah isn't going to get past garcia. depending on how bad garcia/matthysse beat each other up...he may have a shot at beating the winner. who knows?


While I want him to avenge the loss, he should move up and see if his chin holds and if it does the rest of the 140lbers will move up cause that's where the monies at. By the time he may actually be a full fledged welterweight
mrchitown
QUOTE (Franchize @ Apr 18 2013, 03:07 PM) *
I'm surprised the outcry for towards Magarito possible cheating hasn't been heavier. I think that fight will have long term ramifications on Cotto even beyond his boxing career.


So do I, especially from a mental standpoint. Cotto got his revenge in their rematch but you can tell even then and leading up to the Mayweahter fight that it still haunts him
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Apr 18 2013, 08:24 PM) *
While I want him to avenge the loss, he should move up and see if his chin holds and if it does the rest of the 140lbers will move up cause that's where the monies at. By the time he may actually be a full fledged welterweight


he should also be less sensitive to shit talking and criticism. just get the win! stop looking ahead and focus on the task at hand.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Apr 18 2013, 07:20 PM) *
he should beat diaz easily. he then gets the winner of garcia/judah vs mattysse. i think he loses to matthysse and garcia. judah isn't going to get past garcia. depending on how bad garcia/matthysse beat each other up...he may have a shot at beating the winner. who knows?

Haha Damn, I guess we know who you got your money on for the math lamont fight
checkleft
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Apr 18 2013, 02:31 PM) *
I sometimes wish that Margarito fight never happened. He hasn't been the same since then and we see it. He used to engage and fight beautifully. He does it in spots now but everytime he fights we see him get on that bike, and sometimes he does it when he doesn't need to...his fight with Mosley was highly entertaining. Now that was some great back and forth action between 2 great fighters

One of the best fights I've ever seen. You could hear their shots landing loud!

QUOTE (Franchize @ Apr 18 2013, 03:07 PM) *
I'm surprised the outcry for towards Magarito possible cheating hasn't been heavier. I think that fight will have long term ramifications on Cotto even beyond his boxing career.

Marg shouldn't have been allowed to wear gloves again. He should have done some time to, that shit is no joke to me as someone who appreciates the sport, boxes, and has a little brother that boxes to.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Apr 19 2013, 01:22 AM) *
Haha Damn, I guess we know who you got your money on for the math lamont fight


totally forgot about that one. laugh.gif but yeah...i'm going with matthysse. lamonts tendency to block shots and stand in the pocket will be his undoing.
CrazyBuffalO
I agree with the thread starter. And he's got originality too. He doesn't imitate other fighters. He doesn't go in there and try shoulder rolls to impersonate Floyd and stuff. he has got his own style, and level wise it is almost as good as Mayweather.
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