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BrutUalBK
Ok, I've been scanning this situation with Money vs Canelo over and over in my brain and I realized that now it seems Floyd will be staying at 147 since they stripped him of his belt at 154 and everyone seems to want him to go back up and face a bigger Alvarez (who walks around at 170/re-hydrates to the same weight on fight night) and there are those (Haters, mostly) who expects him to make the move back up and not do it at a CW but then those same (Haters, mostly) gave Manny Pac a pass when he took on an Old/way past it/Over-the-hill Oscar at 147 (a weight he hadn't been at in 9 years) for Manny's CW fight with him at WW.

So the questions are: Is there a Double Standard here?? And, if so, why does it exist for Floyd and not for Manny Pacquiao??

DISCUSS!!
sduck
Yeah but that's kind of old...
mitukczuk
QUOTE (sduck @ May 7 2013, 06:59 AM) *
Yes but that's kind of old...


This.

mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 7 2013, 12:49 PM) *
Ok, I've been scanning this situation with Money vs Canelo over and over in my brain and I realized that now it seems Floyd will be staying at 147 since they stripped him of his belt at 154 and everyone seems to want him to go back up and face a bigger Alvarez (who walks around at 170/re-hydrates to the same weight on fight night) and there are those (Haters, mostly) who expects him to make the move back up and not do it at a CW but then those same (Haters, mostly) gave Manny Pac a pass when he took on an Old/way past it/Over-the-hill Oscar at 147 (a weight he hadn't been at in 9 years) for Manny's CW fight with him at WW.

So the questions are: Is there a Double Standard here?? And, if so, why does it exist for Floyd and not for Manny Pacquiao??

DISCUSS!!


Wasn't it ODLH who asked for the fight to be at that weight class?
leonthegee
"They hate seeing a black man with a gang of money in the bank." Suge Knight
Hotsauce
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 7 2013, 06:49 AM) *
Ok, I've been scanning this situation with Money vs Canelo over and over in my brain and I realized that now it seems Floyd will be staying at 147 since they stripped him of his belt at 154 and everyone seems to want him to go back up and face a bigger Alvarez (who walks around at 170/re-hydrates to the same weight on fight night) and there are those (Haters, mostly) who expects him to make the move back up and not do it at a CW but then those same (Haters, mostly) gave Manny Pac a pass when he took on an Old/way past it/Over-the-hill Oscar at 147 (a weight he hadn't been at in 9 years) for Manny's CW fight with him at WW.

So the questions are: Is there a Double Standard here?? And, if so, why does it exist for Floyd and not for Manny Pacquiao??

DISCUSS!!



WBA clarifies Mayweather status


http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/wba-clarif...r-status-194634


http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/mayweather...gondeaux-194628
Franchize
Cmon now. We all know Manny Pacquiao can do no wrong...especially if you're watching HBO.

He fought Mosley, De La Hoya and Hatton after Floyd....they were past their prime, old and overrated respectively when Floyd beat them. They all of a sudden became great again when Manny beat them.

Manny can fight weight drained fighter and nobody cares

Manny can fight without any increased drug testing involved even though everyone seems to be going along with the stricter testing movement.

Manny and Roach can say Marquez might be on steroids and nobody even notices.

Manny gets gift decisions and nobody is enraged.

Manny loses a controversial decision and the boxing world weeps tears of butthurt sorrow.


Cshel86
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 7 2013, 10:06 AM) *
Cmon now. We all know Manny Pacquiao can do no wrong...especially if you're watching HBO.

He fought Mosley, De La Hoya and Hatton after Floyd....they were past their prime, old and overrated respectively when Floyd beat them. They all of a sudden became great again when Manny beat them.

Manny can fight weight drained fighter and nobody cares

Manny can fight without any increased drug testing involved even though everyone seems to be going along with the stricter testing movement.

Manny and Roach can say Marquez might be on steroids and nobody even notices.

Manny gets gift decisions and nobody is enraged.

Manny loses a controversial decision and the boxing world weeps tears of butthurt sorrow.

All of this is in the bible somewhere.
mgrover
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 7 2013, 03:06 PM) *
Cmon now. We all know Manny Pacquiao can do no wrong...especially if you're watching HBO.

He fought Mosley, De La Hoya and Hatton after Floyd....they were past their prime, old and overrated respectively when Floyd beat them. They all of a sudden became great again when Manny beat them.

Manny can fight weight drained fighter and nobody cares

Manny can fight without any increased drug testing involved even though everyone seems to be going along with the stricter testing movement.

Manny and Roach can say Marquez might be on steroids and nobody even notices.

Manny gets gift decisions and nobody is enraged.

Manny loses a controversial decision and the boxing world weeps tears of butthurt sorrow.


As far as some fans are concerned Pac is undefeated btw.
aTYpicalTYrant
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 7 2013, 01:00 PM) *
As far as some fans are concerned Pac is undefeated btw.


People pick and choose their heroes..... Don't they?
mgrover
QUOTE (aTYpicalTYrant @ May 7 2013, 06:22 PM) *
People pick and choose their heroes..... Don't they?


I personally don't see the point of them but each to there own
daprofessor
there is a double standard because most hold floyd to a higher standard than pac. also...floyd talks a much bigger game with his claim that he's the best ever. pac on the other hand never really said much and it was his bandwagon riders that placed him on the pedestal.

i said it in another post...and i'll say it here. he beats everyone from 140-154. if he wants to be considered the greatest of all time...he'll have to top the guys who have come before him who raised the bar. his 44 victories are impressive...but there are plenty who have done more than that in history. the opposition at his weight is not there for him to stake his claim. i always knew he would beat pac...so i don't believe that was ever the answer. he's got 5 fights left on his contract. i get the feeling legacy is not his concern. robbing the bank is...so don't expect any real challenges.
mgrover
I don't get why we still have posts about this,we get it Pac gets away with murder
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 7 2013, 03:45 PM) *
I don't get why we still have posts about this,we get it Pac gets away with murder



Wow apparently reading comprehension is questionable here if all the focus turned to just a Floyd vs Pac debate when the point of this was the situation concerning Canelo and whether or not Floyd should fight him at a CW making him drop to 147? The comparison was to what/how Pac made DLH drain to 147 and how nobody made a big stink about it but I can guarantee if Money asks Alvarez to drop to 147 to fight him and he does accept and Mayweather wins then he (Floyd) will be ridiculed and accused of draining Saul to no end but when Pac did it to Oscar they paraded him as though he slayed one of the Klitschkos.

The comparison would be about this and not about Floyd vs Pac or how they are looked at in totality as fighters which is why the first part of my original post stated this:

QUOTE
Ok, I've been scanning this situation with Money vs Canelo over and over in my brain and I realized that now it seems Floyd will be staying at 147 since they stripped him of his belt at 154 and everyone seems to want him to go back up and face a bigger Alvarez (who walks around at 170/re-hydrates to the same weight on fight night) and there are those (Haters, mostly) who expects him to make the move back up and not do it at a CW but then those same (Haters, mostly) gave Manny Pac a pass when he took on an Old/way past it/Over-the-hill Oscar at 147 (a weight he hadn't been at in 9 years) for Manny's CW fight with him at WW
.

To which someone corrected me using the WBA's garbage SuperChamp BS rules which leaves Floyd with his title but exalted as "Super" champ.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 7 2013, 03:21 PM) *
there is a double standard because most hold floyd to a higher standard than pac. also...floyd talks a much bigger game with his claim that he's the best ever. pac on the other hand never really said much and it was his bandwagon riders that placed him on the pedestal.

i said it in another post...and i'll say it here. he beats everyone from 140-154. if he wants to be considered the greatest of all time...he'll have to top the guys who have come before him who raised the bar. his 44 victories are impressive...but there are plenty who have done more than that in history. the opposition at his weight is not there for him to stake his claim. i always knew he would beat pac...so i don't believe that was ever the answer. he's got 5 fights left on his contract. i get the feeling legacy is not his concern. robbing the bank is...so don't expect any real challenges.




Oooohhh, ya cant say that here. Anything contradictory to Floyd's Michael Jackson-like fan base, will get you branded as a hater,mostly. You cannot ask Mayweather to step up his comp and earn your place in history. You cant ask him to fight a guy who has a shot to KO him with one shot. You cant ask him to go up in weight. That would not be fair. He has to fight guys we know he will likely beat. Let him stay at 147 and fight Garcia and Alexander. I'll hold my PPV change in pocket, just like I did for Guerrero. Alvarez, Martinez and GGG, I'd gladly pay for. Hearns, Duran and Leonard dared to be great and challenged some people at higher weights.
checkleft
I think the funny part is that people always demand mayweather to take on the challenges (some just physically not realistic) yet they don't ask the same out of the guys they want him to fight

Ggg- how many top middleweights has he fought?

Guerrero- I said this before and ill say it again aydin and berto are not tune ups for mayweather. They guy got that shot with his wifes backstory and his mouth.

Canelo- suppose to be a unified champ at 154, yet he's fought only 1 154 pounder.

Martinez is the only guy who constantly fights tough opponents and comes out on top. I think Bradley is also really overlooked for a mayweather fight but promotional ties will not let it happen.

daprofessor
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ May 7 2013, 08:29 PM) *
Oooohhh, ya cant say that here. Anything contradictory to Floyd's Michael Jackson-like fan base, will get you branded as a hater,mostly. You cannot ask Mayweather to step up his comp and earn your place in history. You cant ask him to fight a guy who has a shot to KO him with one shot. You cant ask him to go up in weight. That would not be fair. He has to fight guys we know he will likely beat. Let him stay at 147 and fight Garcia and Alexander. I'll hold my PPV change in pocket, just like I did for Guerrero. Alvarez, Martinez and GGG, I'd gladly pay for. Hearns, Duran and Leonard dared to be great and challenged some people at higher weights.


those are all time greats that i'd rate over floyd.

modern guys like chavez, rjj and bhop can all make the case of more accomplishment.

chavez had 100 consecutive wins.

rjj went from middleweight all the way to heavy and won titles.

bhop unified and defended his middleweight crown more than 20 times...and went on to win world titles against heavier opposition all past the age of 40.

floyd has had a great run. he has looked good against the competition he was favored to beat. when was the last time he wasn't favored? that's what defines greatness imo, when you achieve the impossible. he's doing what he's supposed to against the opposition available....and i'll be the first to say...i didn't expect him to beat guerrero so easily, so i am very impressed with his victory over a guy i knew he would beat.

with only 5 fights left in his career....what statement does he make to stake his claim at best ever?


daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ May 7 2013, 08:43 PM) *
I think the funny part is that people always demand mayweather to take on the challenges (some just physically not realistic) yet they don't ask the same out of the guys they want him to fight

Ggg- how many top middleweights has he fought?

Guerrero- I said this before and ill say it again aydin and berto are not tune ups for mayweather. They guy got that shot with his wifes backstory and his mouth.

Canelo- suppose to be a unified champ at 154, yet he's fought only 1 154 pounder.

Martinez is the only guy who constantly fights tough opponents and comes out on top. I think Bradley is also really overlooked for a mayweather fight but promotional ties will not let it happen.


ggg just got to the u.s. so i think he'll make his run at greatness. he doesn't seem like the type to make excuses or avoid competition so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

guerrero just jumped 2 weight classes from 135 to 147. only other guys to do that and be victorious....henry armstrong, roberto duran, shane mosley. that's great company to be in.

canelo loss to trout so u won't get any arguments from me on this.

martinez is legit.

of the four guys u named....none of them are making the claim of being the best EVER. floyd is. u make a claim like that...it has to be backed up.

ali made that claim...and he proved it more than once. he was the underdog against liston....and he was the underdog against foreman. i cannot remember floyd ever being an underdog.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ May 7 2013, 07:29 PM) *
Oooohhh, ya cant say that here. Anything contradictory to Floyd's Michael Jackson-like fan base, will get you branded as a hater,mostly. You cannot ask Mayweather to step up his comp and earn your place in history. You cant ask him to fight a guy who has a shot to KO him with one shot. You cant ask him to go up in weight. That would not be fair. He has to fight guys we know he will likely beat. Let him stay at 147 and fight Garcia and Alexander. I'll hold my PPV change in pocket, just like I did for Guerrero. Alvarez, Martinez and GGG, I'd gladly pay for. Hearns, Duran and Leonard dared to be great and challenged some people at higher weights.



Ooooooh, yeah you can't ask a guy who has already moved up to a weight class 24lbs above his starting weight to continue going up and fighting guys who are bigger/heavier than him. Ooooh yeah, you can't ask a little guy who has the best defense the sport has ever seen and has earned his place in history to do what you are not asking any other boxer to do.

I guess there is no double standard here, huh??
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 7 2013, 09:52 PM) *
Ooooooh, yeah you can't ask a guy who has already moved up to a weight class 24lbs above his starting weight to continue going up and fighting guys who are bigger/heavier than him. Ooooh yeah, you can't ask a little guy who has the best defense the sport has ever seen and has earned his place in history to do what you are not asking any other boxer to do.

I guess there is no double standard here, huh??



You can ask anything. there will always be a price tag to getting what you want, along with all the conditions in between. Also as previously stated, a guy who claims to be the greatest is always held to a different standard. Ali and Frazier come to mind. Without getting into the reasons the May/Pac fight didnt happen, if Mayweather fought and beat Pacquiao, then there'd be less to bitch about on both sides and people wouldnt be so grouchy when it comes to Floyd and his choice of opponents as compared to Pacquiao. Both of them got some diva in them. And to answer your last quest, no I dont see a double standard. One is allegedly the greates fighter of his generation according to many people here. The other is fighter of the decade because he's fought a lot, been very entertaining and won most.
mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 7 2013, 11:51 PM) *
Wow apparently reading comprehension is questionable here if all the focus turned to just a Floyd vs Pac debate when the point of this was the situation concerning Canelo and whether or not Floyd should fight him at a CW making him drop to 147? The comparison was to what/how Pac made DLH drain to 147 and how nobody made a big stink about it but I can guarantee if Money asks Alvarez to drop to 147 to fight him and he does accept and Mayweather wins then he (Floyd) will be ridiculed and accused of draining Saul to no end but when Pac did it to Oscar they paraded him as though he slayed one of the Klitschkos.

The comparison would be about this and not about Floyd vs Pac or how they are looked at in totality as fighters which is why the first part of my original post stated this:

.

To which someone corrected me using the WBA's garbage SuperChamp BS rules which leaves Floyd with his title but exalted as "Super" champ.


It's that if we want to remember a Pac vs Floyd debate we just look at ask the other ones we've had ever and there would be a fill of a lifetime. I ask again who chose the 147 weight class? At the time everyone thought DLH was going to destroy PAC


Oh I see, it's probably something to do with the fact the Oscar actually won the majority of his big fights at that weight all aside from Vargas
.
mrchitown
If I was Floyd I would fight Canelo at either a CW or put a re-hydration clause in the contract

As far as him being the best ever, maybe some of that's marketing and maybe it's not. He's all ready a future HOF'er and he is an ATG, where he ranks as being the best ever is subjective, no one on this board can decide where he falls in that category, it' a personal list. I don't agree with any of you who keep bringing up how he has to do this that and the third to cement his legacy. His ledger is filled with future HOF'ers and anyone with sense can tell you his skill level is almost unrivaled

He don't have to move up to no 160 to cement his legacy. You fight who you fight, are the Klitschko's not great because they fight in a current division that's not what it once was? That's BS!! Just because somebody did something a long time ago and made history doesn't mean that the new crop has to do it. I've never been a wash rinse and repeat type of person like some on here are. The ones who get remembered are trendsetters. Make your own mark instead of following others footsteps. If yall want a copycat just keep an eye on Broner's career and STHU.
karmine20
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 8 2013, 03:19 AM) *
If I was Floyd I would fight Canelo at either a CW or put a re-hydration clause in the contract

As far as him being the best ever, maybe some of that's marketing and maybe it's not. He's all ready a future HOF'er and he is an ATG, where he ranks as being the best ever is subjective, no one on this board can decide where he falls in that category, it' a personal list. I don't agree with any of you who keep bringing up how he has to do this that and the third to cement his legacy. His ledger is filled with future HOF'ers and anyone with sense can tell you his skill level is almost unrivaled

He don't have to move up to no 160 to cement his legacy. You fight who you fight, are the Klitschko's not great because they fight in a current division that's not what it once was? That's BS!! Just because somebody did something a long time ago and made history doesn't mean that the new crop has to do it. I've never been a wash rinse and repeat type of person like some on here are. The ones who get remembered are trendsetters. Make your own mark instead of following others footsteps. If yall want a copycat just keep an eye on Broner's career and STHU.



+1 +1 +1 very eloquently said. couldnt agree more.
Cshel86
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 8 2013, 04:19 AM) *
If I was Floyd I would fight Canelo at either a CW or put a re-hydration clause in the contract

As far as him being the best ever, maybe some of that's marketing and maybe it's not. He's all ready a future HOF'er and he is an ATG, where he ranks as being the best ever is subjective, no one on this board can decide where he falls in that category, it' a personal list. I don't agree with any of you who keep bringing up how he has to do this that and the third to cement his legacy. His ledger is filled with future HOF'ers and anyone with sense can tell you his skill level is almost unrivaled

He don't have to move up to no 160 to cement his legacy. You fight who you fight, are the Klitschko's not great because they fight in a current division that's not what it once was? That's BS!! Just because somebody did something a long time ago and made history doesn't mean that the new crop has to do it. I've never been a wash rinse and repeat type of person like some on here are. The ones who get remembered are trendsetters. Make your own mark instead of following others footsteps. If yall want a copycat just keep an eye on Broner's career and STHU.

This is in the bible somewhere
mgrover
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 8 2013, 06:55 PM) *
This is in the bible somewhere


This is in the bible somewhere
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 8 2013, 01:35 AM) *
It's that if we want to remember a Pac vs Floyd debate we just look at ask the other ones we've had ever and there would be a fill of a lifetime. I ask again who chose the 147 weight class? At the time everyone thought DLH was going to destroy PAC


Oh I see, it's probably something to do with the fact the Oscar actually won the majority of his big fights at that weight all aside from Vargas
.



This thread isn't a comparison of Floyd and Pac, it is actually a comparo of the situations should Floyd face Canelo at a CW or 147/WW and the fact that Pac drained Oscar to 147 and how fair it is or isn't?
mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 8 2013, 09:20 PM) *
This thread isn't a comparison of Floyd and Pac, it is actually a comparo of the situations should Floyd face Canelo at a CW or 147/WW and the fact that Pac drained Oscar to 147 and how fair it is or isn't?


Fair enough, my bad, well can someone please answer my question, whose idea was it for Oscar to go down to 147? Was it him who said yeah I'll go to 147 or was it Arum. People are okay with that fight mainly because the majority of people thought that Pac was going to get destroyed, he was the actual underdog and came away with the victory. Sure Oscar was drained as fuck, but if Pac wasn't the one who made him drain, while going up two classes himself, Pac still came to the ring to win.

It's not fair in my opinion that Floyd has to fight a fighter at 180lb, but in my eyes, this isn't just a matter about Floyd, I think all fighters should have either same day weigh ins, or they can only be allowed to rehydrate to the next weight class. I mean vs Trout that kid weighed more than Martinez usually does and that says it all

According to this article is was Oscar who wanted to fight at 147lb

Manny Pac: The Catchweight King
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 8 2013, 04:19 AM) *
If I was Floyd I would fight Canelo at either a CW or put a re-hydration clause in the contract

As far as him being the best ever, maybe some of that's marketing and maybe it's not. He's all ready a future HOF'er and he is an ATG, where he ranks as being the best ever is subjective, no one on this board can decide where he falls in that category, it' a personal list. I don't agree with any of you who keep bringing up how he has to do this that and the third to cement his legacy. His ledger is filled with future HOF'ers and anyone with sense can tell you his skill level is almost unrivaled

He don't have to move up to no 160 to cement his legacy. You fight who you fight, are the Klitschko's not great because they fight in a current division that's not what it once was? That's BS!! Just because somebody did something a long time ago and made history doesn't mean that the new crop has to do it. I've never been a wash rinse and repeat type of person like some on here are. The ones who get remembered are trendsetters. Make your own mark instead of following others footsteps. If yall want a copycat just keep an eye on Broner's career and STHU.


rocky marciano is an atg. not many will dispute that. unfortunately for him...he came at a time when there wasn't much opposition availabe for him to prove his greatness. all we're left with is his wins over an old joe louis, old jersey joe walcott, former middle/light heavy ezzard charles and an old archie moore.

it is what it is...


JammyJam
I feel like if he was to fight Canelo next and win people would want martinez. If he fought Martinez then people would start talkin about Ward. It just won't stop. When Floyd retires if he still looks good after that last fight....you'll have some dumbasses saying he retired to duck Broner or some shit.

In regards to your post though. Therw is a double standard but Floyd fucked himself when he went in on Manny for catchweighting and talking about how he wants fighters at their best weight.
mgrover
QUOTE (JammyJam @ May 9 2013, 01:09 AM) *
I feel like if he was to fight Canelo next and win people would want martinez. If he fought Martinez then people would start talkin about Ward. It just won't stop. When Floyd retires if he still looks good after that last fight....you'll have some dumbasses saying he retired to duck Broner or some shit.

In regards to your post though. Therw is a double standard but Floyd fucked himself when he went in on Manny for catchweighting and talking about how he wants fighters at their best weight.


Nah I think Floyd fucked himself wanting to be the bad guy, that's why people want him to lose, that's why they dislike him. That's why they defend Pac, nobodies perfect but the media sure made Pac look it for a while
aTYpicalTYrant
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 8 2013, 08:34 PM) *
Nah I think Floyd fucked himself wanting to be the bad guy, that's why people want him to lose, that's why they dislike him. That's why they defend Pac, nobodies perfect but the media sure made Pac look it for a while



That change in persona proved to be incredibly lucrative for FMJ..... He may have f*cked up his image in the public eye and it may even bother him occasionally. But I'm sure he has few regrets when he looks at that bank statement. He probably just remembers ,"I'm rich bitch!"
daprofessor
QUOTE (JammyJam @ May 8 2013, 08:09 PM) *
I feel like if he was to fight Canelo next and win people would want martinez. If he fought Martinez then people would start talkin about Ward. It just won't stop. When Floyd retires if he still looks good after that last fight....you'll have some dumbasses saying he retired to duck Broner or some shit.

In regards to your post though. Therw is a double standard but Floyd fucked himself when he went in on Manny for catchweighting and talking about how he wants fighters at their best weight.


he does this all the time. talking shit is a double edged sword.

if he wants to claim he's the greatest of all time....then he leaves himself open to being compared to all-time greats...some of which happen to have been in his weight class...and have acheived greater feats.

had he took the pacquiao route...and been humble...then people would have been showering him with praise.

anyone remember mike tyson when he first burst onto the scene? he was very humble....and he never talked trash. the public ate that shit up and he became larger than life. cus died...then jim jacobs...and slowly but surely the real mike came out and he was a hood as it gets. by then...he had already captured the publics attention. does anyone think it's coincidence that his rise coincided with the decline of the networks televising boxing. his rise ushered in the ppv era.

on the flip side...let's look at another humble athlete who took the world by storm. michael jordan. didn't talk any blatant shit and instead...did so in very subtle ways. ask anyone who knows him personally and they'll tell u he was never the person portrayed in all those ads....but he got paid and the fans still love the man to this day.
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 8 2013, 07:05 PM) *
rocky marciano is an atg. not many will dispute that. unfortunately for him...he came at a time when there wasn't much opposition availabe for him to prove his greatness. all we're left with is his wins over an old joe louis, old jersey joe walcott, former middle/light heavy ezzard charles and an old archie moore.

it is what it is...


I had a coming to America moment when you said Rocky Marciano laugh.gif

But I agree, some tend to discredit Marciano slightly but what was he supposed to do? He could only fight what was there for him at the time
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 8 2013, 08:36 PM) *
he does this all the time. talking shit is a double edged sword.

if he wants to claim he's the greatest of all time....then he leaves himself open to being compared to all-time greats...some of which happen to have been in his weight class...and have acheived greater feats.

had he took the pacquiao route...and been humble...then people would have been showering him with praise.

anyone remember mike tyson when he first burst onto the scene? he was very humble....and he never talked trash. the public ate that shit up and he became larger than life. cus died...then jim jacobs...and slowly but surely the real mike came out and he was a hood as it gets. by then...he had already captured the publics attention. does anyone think it's coincidence that his rise coincided with the decline of the networks televising boxing. his rise ushered in the ppv era.

on the flip side...let's look at another humble athlete who took the world by storm. michael jordan. didn't talk any blatant shit and instead...did so in very subtle ways. ask anyone who knows him personally and they'll tell u he was never the person portrayed in all those ads....but he got paid and the fans still love the man to this day.


Interesting observation at the first bolded. When Jacobs died that was the beginning of the end for him

@ the second bolded, I do't know him personally I met him once and he was cool. But Chamillionaire can tell you how he really is off camera lol
mgrover
QUOTE (aTYpicalTYrant @ May 9 2013, 01:59 AM) *
That change in persona proved to be incredibly lucrative for FMJ..... He may have f*cked up his image in the public eye and it may even bother him occasionally. But I'm sure he has few regrets when he looks at that bank statement. He probably just remembers ,"I'm rich bitch!"


Maybe but why has he been trying to be the nice guy for a while
neophyte7
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 9 2013, 02:03 AM) *
I had a coming to America moment when you said Rocky Marciano laugh.gif

But I agree, some tend to discredit Marciano slightly but what was he supposed to do? He could only fight what was there for him at the time




marciano.. lmao.. picture him against Prime Foreman. Riddick Bowe..LMAO. he thought old Jersey Joe had him hurt LMAO... I hear Marciano had hellacious power though. If he came around at the time of Frazier, Ali, Foreman... no way in hell would he have been undefeated. I don't think he could have survived 7 rounds with Lennox Lewis, yet he was a different type of heavy.. back then not that big
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 8 2013, 05:01 PM) *
Fair enough, my bad, well can someone please answer my question, whose idea was it for Oscar to go down to 147? Was it him who said yeah I'll go to 147 or was it Arum. People are okay with that fight mainly because the majority of people thought that Pac was going to get destroyed, he was the actual underdog and came away with the victory. Sure Oscar was drained as fuck, but if Pac wasn't the one who made him drain, while going up two classes himself, Pac still came to the ring to win.

It's not fair in my opinion that Floyd has to fight a fighter at 180lb, but in my eyes, this isn't just a matter about Floyd, I think all fighters should have either same day weigh ins, or they can only be allowed to rehydrate to the next weight class. I mean vs Trout that kid weighed more than Martinez usually does and that says it all

According to this article is was Oscar who wanted to fight at 147lb

Manny Pac: The Catchweight King



I believe it was DLH that stated such because he knew MP wouldn't be able to make it to 154 and he said that he was comfortable at 147 which anyone who saw his fight with Forbes knew he wasn't but a shell of himself.

http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-h...iness-of-boxing

Not everyone believed that Oscar would flatten Pac, people forget that little Valero had given DLH two black eyes in sparring and told everyone before that fight that Manny was going to KO Oscar.


aTYpicalTYrant
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 9 2013, 05:55 AM) *
Maybe but why has he been trying to be the nice guy for a while


Probably because he can now see the end of the road for him as a boxer.... PlenTY of people decide to find Jesus when death is near. This is no different.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (aTYpicalTYrant @ May 9 2013, 11:10 AM) *
Probably because he can now see the end of the road for him as a boxer.... PlenTY of people decide to find Jesus when death is near. This is no different.



LOL
Dolimite
We talk about how Floyd will be remembered but how will Pacquiao be remembered? Marquez exposed him, Rios might crack his chin yet again. Yeah Pac is the supposed good guy but his skeletons have been uncovered. He will not be one of the greats. People will slowly realized that he was well matched. But forget that, how will history and boxing fans remember Pacquiao? How will you remember him?
Franchize
QUOTE (Dolimite @ May 9 2013, 01:45 PM) *
We talk about how Floyd will be remembered but how will Pacquiao be remembered? Marquez exposed him, Rios might crack his chin yet again. Yeah Pac is the supposed good guy but his skeletons have been uncovered. He will not be one of the greats. People will slowly realized that he was well matched. But forget that, how will history and boxing fans remember Pacquiao? How will you remember him?


I'll remember him as someone who was better than he got credit for when he wasn't as popular and not as good as he got credit for when he became a mega-star.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 8 2013, 09:36 PM) *
he does this all the time. talking shit is a double edged sword.

if he wants to claim he's the greatest of all time....then he leaves himself open to being compared to all-time greats...some of which happen to have been in his weight class...and have acheived greater feats.

had he took the pacquiao route...and been humble...then people would have been showering him with praise.

anyone remember mike tyson when he first burst onto the scene? he was very humble....and he never talked trash. the public ate that shit up and he became larger than life. cus died...then jim jacobs...and slowly but surely the real mike came out and he was a hood as it gets. by then...he had already captured the publics attention. does anyone think it's coincidence that his rise coincided with the decline of the networks televising boxing. his rise ushered in the ppv era.

on the flip side...let's look at another humble athlete who took the world by storm. michael jordan. didn't talk any blatant shit and instead...did so in very subtle ways. ask anyone who knows him personally and they'll tell u he was never the person portrayed in all those ads....but he got paid and the fans still love the man to this day.

Did you just call mj humble???? Lmao, sorry pro that couldn't be further from the truth.

Franchize
QUOTE (checkleft @ May 9 2013, 02:47 PM) *
Did you just call mj humble???? Lmao, sorry pro that couldn't be further from the truth.

Yea he's buggin for that one. Michael Jordan was one of the biggest trash talkers EVER. He talked trash, not only in basketball, but in everything else. He must not have heard the stories of him and Magic on the Dream Team.
mrchitown
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ May 9 2013, 09:32 AM) *
marciano.. lmao.. picture him against Prime Foreman. Riddick Bowe..LMAO. he thought old Jersey Joe had him hurt LMAO... I hear Marciano had hellacious power though. If he came around at the time of Frazier, Ali, Foreman... no way in hell would he have been undefeated. I don't think he could have survived 7 rounds with Lennox Lewis, yet he was a different type of heavy.. back then not that big


That's what some of the old timers in the gyms told me, I really never appreciated those kind of stories until I decided to study the history of the sport and some of it's fighters later on. I was just young and liked fighting. They would tell me Marciano this and Joe Louis that but I would always say bet they can't do that shit to Tyson though lol

Foreman and even a retarded Riddick Bowe would give Marciano the business lol
neophyte7
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 9 2013, 03:41 PM) *
That's what some of the old timers in the gyms told me, I really never appreciated those kind of stories until I decided to study the history of the sport and some of it's fighters later on. I was just young and liked fighting. They would tell me Marciano this and Joe Louis that but I would always say bet they can't do that shit to Tyson though lol

Foreman and even a retarded Riddick Bowe would give Marciano the business lol



LMAO...in watching Marciano I have no doubts that he would have had problems with the likeS of BERT COOPER... and not to be funny, Bert Cooper who is on no one ATG list was one helluva competitor. In terms of marciano's lack of size a heavy like him would have given marciano problems in my view.. On the Pac and mauweather issue.. really, there has never been a question who was the better fighter. Floyd established himself at 18 and 19 years old. Pac has blown up to hennesy status rather recently in comparison. mayweather should fight Alvarez with rehydration and catch weight clauses., especially now that he is talking as if he is the ambassador of the sport having scraped by with a gift against trout
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 9 2013, 02:03 AM) *
I had a coming to America moment when you said Rocky Marciano laugh.gif

But I agree, some tend to discredit Marciano slightly but what was he supposed to do? He could only fight what was there for him at the time


right. so when u consider rocky marciano in the grand scheme of things...he is definitely the best of his era....but he isn't the best heavyweight of all time. this is the same situation with floyd.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ May 9 2013, 01:45 PM) *
We talk about how Floyd will be remembered but how will Pacquiao be remembered? Marquez exposed him, Rios might crack his chin yet again. Yeah Pac is the supposed good guy but his skeletons have been uncovered. He will not be one of the greats. People will slowly realized that he was well matched. But forget that, how will history and boxing fans remember Pacquiao? How will you remember him?


i never thought he was what they made him out to be. i was calling all this shit from the beginning.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 9 2013, 02:50 PM) *
Yea he's buggin for that one. Michael Jordan was one of the biggest trash talkers EVER. He talked trash, not only in basketball, but in everything else. He must not have heard the stories of him and Magic on the Dream Team.


i'm guessing that was some of the stories they told in l.a. and n.y to take away some of the shine he and the bulls had. we didn't get them stories in the chi...well at least not that i can recall. laugh.gif
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 9 2013, 08:11 PM) *
i'm guessing that was some of the stories they told in l.a. and n.y to take away some of the shine he and the bulls had. we didn't get them stories in the chi...well at least not that i can recall. laugh.gif

I've met him. He's a Dick

There's been many other people to confirm this lol
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 9 2013, 07:07 PM) *
right. so when u consider rocky marciano in the grand scheme of things...he is definitely the best of his era....but he isn't the best heavyweight of all time. this is the same situation with floyd.


I agree with your opinion on Floyd and Maricano
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