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daprofessor
rumor has it that cotto will be training with freddie roach. he's asking for 10 mil to face canelo. he deserves it....but neither guy is with al haymon so i doubt they get any where near that. oscar/gbp runs things like arum. all of his money comes from boxing...so he's going to tax his fighters the same way the bob father does....heavily. i've already read articles from the shills shooting cotto's request down.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 9 2013, 09:29 PM) *
rumor has it that cotto will be training with freddie roach. he's asking for 10 mil to face canelo. he deserves it....but neither guy is with al haymon so i doubt they get any where near that. oscar/gbp runs things like arum. all of his money comes from boxing...so he's going to tax his fighters the same way the bob father does....heavily. i've already read articles from the shills shooting cotto's request down.



I for one do not believe that MC needs a new Trainer, the one he has now is just fine, hopefully of all the Trainers he can go out and get that he will not take on FR (Personally I don't believe he's a great as they make believe he is).

KOpower
Freddie was good but he is sick and getting worse. Miguel doesn't need a new trainer. His current one was pretty damn good. A Canelo-Cotto fight is VERY interesting. It will be entertaining and important at the same time. I would love to see this fight in the fall and I would pay top PPV dollar to watch it. I think Cotto could win. Canelo is a better matchup for Cotto than Trout was. I ultimately see Canelo chopping Cotto down between rounds 8-11 for a TKO.
checkleft
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 9 2013, 10:35 PM) *
I for one do not believe that MC needs a new Trainer, the one he has now is just fine, hopefully of all the Trainers he can go out and get that he will not take on FR (Personally I don't believe he's a great as they make believe he is).

I thought cottos trainer was very good, he gave him really good game plans and I saw him give cotto his confidence back.

QUOTE (KOpower @ May 9 2013, 10:52 PM) *
Freddie was good but he is sick and getting worse. Miguel doesn't need a new trainer. His current one was pretty damn good. A Canelo-Cotto fight is VERY interesting. It will be entertaining and important at the same time. I would love to see this fight in the fall and I would pay top PPV dollar to watch it. I think Cotto could win. Canelo is a better matchup for Cotto than Trout was. I ultimately see Canelo chopping Cotto down between rounds 8-11 for a TKO.

I agree with you about the trainer and the ppv part. I would pay for it, the only thing I don't agree with is the part about cotto being a good match up for canelo. I think the opposite, canelo is a way better match up for cotto than trout. This could be a very good fight if Cottos face and stamina holds up.
checkleft
Oh and as far as promotion goes cotto is a free agent, he promotes himself he's in the drivers seat for his pay check. As long as he stays out of Texas and cali he's good
KOpower
I said Canelo is a good match for Cotto. I think Cotto can win that fight, but I still would predict a Canelo stoppage.

I think this would be the best fight out there for Canelo. I don't see the Mayweather fight ever happening. Canelo can fight 1 or 2 more fights at 154 and then possibly move up to 160 and face guys like Martinez or other 160 pounders.
checkleft
QUOTE (KOpower @ May 10 2013, 12:51 AM) *
I said Canelo is a good match for Cotto. I think Cotto can win that fight, but I still would predict a Canelo stoppage.

I think this would be the best fight out there for Canelo. I don't see the Mayweather fight ever happening. Canelo can fight 1 or 2 more fights at 154 and then possibly move up to 160 and face guys like Martinez or other 160 pounders.

Well either way I concur. With your prediction as well, unless cotto can put on a performance like he did against Mosley I see him getting stopped.

Alvarez might be at too big a length disadvantage at 160 but he's definitely big enough. Him and martinez match up well though size wise though.
p4pcrown
Easy win for Canelo. Cotto's best days are far behind him. He didn't have what it takes to beat Trout and he definitely doesn't have what it takes to beat Canelo. Easy work.
mrchitown
Cotto be whoring himself out to much, every time you see him he got a new trainer
mgrover
Bad move on Cottos part, Roaches fighters all rely on some basic physical fundamentals and that's about it, speed, power, endurance and hopefully if they want to last a good chin. Any of his fighters that actually have a ring IQ is something they've developed themselves rather than Roach teaching it to them
Jovi
Please Cotto if you don't wanna get knocked out then choose elsewhere. I can't believe he really said Freddie roach. I hope i'm not the only one who thinks he's overrated.

Cotto needs to be with a Black trainer- Virgil hunter, Floyd/Jeff Mayweather, someone who will make him slicker and more accurate.

His last trainer was gravy though, Memo was it? The same trainer as Rigondeaux? why would he even switch, i thought he looked good against Trout?

Franchize
This is the usual sign a fighter can't cut it. They start blaming shit on their trainer. Cotto was in the best shape he's been in for years with Pedro Diaz. Rigo looked great vs Donaire with Pedro by his side. I just don't think he wants to do the strength and conditioning work Diaz is known for. In the build up for the Mayweather fight, it seemed like he was constantly complaining about it. I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but I think Pedro Diaz is a fairly good trainer. In my humble opinion, Freddy Roach style fighters are tailor made for guys like Canelo. You wanna come in firing at all cylinders and then pull straight back? Canelo has show he's willing to be patient, let you throw a bunch of bullshit to his arms and body, then light your ass up when he feels it's his turn to let the guns go off. I just don't think Cotto has the stamina or work rate to be a Freddy Roach style of fighter.
p4pcrown
cotto will get picked apart and likely stopped
Cshel86
Nice move Cotto!

First, you look GOOD losing to Mayweather, which gave you a breath of fresh air in the boxing world...no harm, no foul there.

THEN, whoever in the fuck handles your business decisions, made the worse move ever, by making the Trout fight. You lose to an unknown Trout, who went on to stink up the joint against poo poo Canelo...so you're no longer completely in the driver's seat.

NOW, you're entertaining the idea of training with Roach, who's becoming perpetually shitty nowadays. He's not the worse trainer in the world, but damn.

There we have it guys, Cotto's not done because of his losses in the ring, but he's slowly withering away because of whack business decisions. The prognosis is out there.

He's not making the best decisions nowadays, especially for somebody who's a free agent with a NAME. Thanks for proving that not all fighters can handle themselves as a free agent...just go back to Bob please. (Trust me, I took no pleasure in that last line)
Franchize
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 10 2013, 11:15 AM) *
Nice move Cotto!

First, you look GOOD losing to Mayweather, which gave you a breath of fresh air in the boxing world...no harm, no foul there.

THEN, whoever in the fuck handles your business decisions, made the worse move ever, by making the Trout fight. You lose to an unknown Trout, who went on to stink up the joint against poo poo Canelo...so you're no longer completely in the driver's seat.

NOW, you're entertaining the idea of training with Roach, who's becoming perpetually shitty nowadays. He's not the worse trainer in the world, but damn.

There we have it guys, Cotto's not done because of his losses in the ring, but he's slowly withering away because of whack business decisions. The prognosis is out there.

He's not making the best decisions nowadays, especially for somebody who's a free agent with a NAME. Thanks for proving that not all fighters can handle themselves as a free agent...just go back to Bob please. (Trust me, I took no pleasure in that last line)


I agree with everything except your assessment of Trout's performance vs Canelo....but we've already discussed that. I'm totally with you with Cotto's career choices though. He had the world's sympathy once he beat Margacheato and exposed him in that Face Off. Then he puts up a very valiant effort vs Floyd. This is the time where a veteran fighter earns the right to take a low risk, high reward fight. Instead, he did the exact opposite. Then, he's talking about fighting Canelo (who I can't see him beating at 154) and getting a trainer who probably will custom fit him for an ass whooping. Everything about a Roach coached fighter, to me, is the antithesis of what he'll need to do to win.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 10 2013, 03:17 AM) *
Cotto be whoring himself out to much, every time you see him he got a new trainer


how is that whoring himself out?

i may be alone here...but i don't think his last trainer was as good as everyone is making him out to be. he brought some good things to the table as far as conditioning is concerned...but i think he lacks basic understanding when it comes to certain things. he had cotto fighting all over his front foot. that make it easier for cotto to get hit. i think manny steward had the right idea when he had cotto sitting on the back foot. he needs to be using head movement instead of them bullshit ass blocks. cotto still has enough in the tank to beat a guy like canelo....but i don't see it happening with freddie roach.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ May 9 2013, 11:48 PM) *
Oh and as far as promotion goes cotto is a free agent, he promotes himself he's in the drivers seat for his pay check. As long as he stays out of Texas and cali he's good


he's a free agent fighting a golden boy fabricated fighter. he's going to have to sell his soul to get that fight. now way he gets the 10mil he's asking. canelo isn't making that kind of money....do u honestly think oscar is going to pay cotto that much?
daprofessor
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 10 2013, 09:28 AM) *
This is the usual sign a fighter can't cut it. They start blaming shit on their trainer. Cotto was in the best shape he's been in for years with Pedro Diaz. Rigo looked great vs Donaire with Pedro by his side. I just don't think he wants to do the strength and conditioning work Diaz is known for. In the build up for the Mayweather fight, it seemed like he was constantly complaining about it. I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but I think Pedro Diaz is a fairly good trainer. In my humble opinion, Freddy Roach style fighters are tailor made for guys like Canelo. You wanna come in firing at all cylinders and then pull straight back? Canelo has show he's willing to be patient, let you throw a bunch of bullshit to his arms and body, then light your ass up when he feels it's his turn to let the guns go off. I just don't think Cotto has the stamina or work rate to be a Freddy Roach style of fighter.



i think it has something to do with their last camp together. i read that he trained in big bear and he was miserable with the cold weather and isolation. not all fighters are the same. i also believe it's a personality conflict. u can kind of tell cotto didn't really like pedro. doesn't mean he isn't good...he's just not good for cotto. that is the case in every fighter/trainer relationship. take guerrero for instance....he has always been trained by his pops. for a brief while he was trained by john bray. john bray is an excellent trainer who knows waaaay more than ruben...but ruben is who guerrero was used to...so he was able to get more out of robert.

as for freddie training cotto....there are some perks to working with freddie....the one that sticks out the most is that cotto is going to get some really good sparring in the wildcard. that might turn out to be the best thing for him.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 10 2013, 02:55 PM) *
he's a free agent fighting a golden boy fabricated fighter. he's going to have to sell his soul to get that fight. now way he gets the 10mil he's asking. canelo isn't making that kind of money....do u honestly think oscar is going to pay cotto that much?

I believe he paid him around that much for mayweather.
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 10 2013, 01:53 PM) *
how is that whoring himself out?

i may be alone here...but i don't think his last trainer was as good as everyone is making him out to be. he brought some good things to the table as far as conditioning is concerned...but i think he lacks basic understanding when it comes to certain things. he had cotto fighting all over his front foot. that make it easier for cotto to get hit. i think manny steward had the right idea when he had cotto sitting on the back foot. he needs to be using head movement instead of them bullshit ass blocks. cotto still has enough in the tank to beat a guy like canelo....but i don't see it happening with freddie roach.


You know what a whore is don't you?....every time Cotto loses he goes to a new trainer, he lost to Margarito and had that spat with his uncle, and went to Manny Steward, then he left Steward and went to Diaz, now he's making a switch possibly to Roach. C'mon you smarter then that, he's a boxing whore
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 10 2013, 11:15 AM) *
Nice move Cotto!

First, you look GOOD losing to Mayweather, which gave you a breath of fresh air in the boxing world...no harm, no foul there.

THEN, whoever in the fuck handles your business decisions, made the worse move ever, by making the Trout fight. You lose to an unknown Trout, who went on to stink up the joint against poo poo Canelo...so you're no longer completely in the driver's seat.

NOW, you're entertaining the idea of training with Roach, who's becoming perpetually shitty nowadays. He's not the worse trainer in the world, but damn.

There we have it guys, Cotto's not done because of his losses in the ring, but he's slowly withering away because of whack business decisions. The prognosis is out there.

He's not making the best decisions nowadays, especially for somebody who's a free agent with a NAME. Thanks for proving that not all fighters can handle themselves as a free agent...just go back to Bob please. (Trust me, I took no pleasure in that last line)


ouch. sad.gif

yeah...he's definitely proving not everyone can handle free agency.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ May 10 2013, 04:38 PM) *
I believe he paid him around that much for mayweather.


oscar was the promoter of the event...but it was floyd that paid him...not oscar. watch what i'm saying...no way cotto gets more than 1.5-3 mil for this.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 10 2013, 04:38 PM) *
You know what a whore is don't you?....every time Cotto loses he goes to a new trainer, he lost to Margarito and had that spat with his uncle, and went to Manny Steward, then he left Steward and went to Diaz, now he's making a switch possibly to Roach. C'mon you smarter then that, he's a boxing whore


that makes no sense. he pays them for their services...so how is he whoring himself to trainers? now if he kept switching promoters...who basically ho out the fighters...then that would apply.
neophyte7
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ May 10 2013, 11:15 AM)

just go back to Bob please. (Trust me, I took no pleasure in that last line)


LMAO... clapping.gif
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 10 2013, 04:43 PM) *
oscar was the promoter of the event...but it was floyd that paid him...not oscar. watch what i'm saying...no way cotto gets more than 1.5-3 mil for this.

I watched. So what your telling me is Floyd bought his own purse bid for 40 mill, paid himself 32 out of the 40 he waisted and out of the kindness of his heart paid cotto 8 after he already spent his purse buying the bid? And all the while gbp who promoted the event is doing....?
scdrking2
QUOTE (checkleft @ May 10 2013, 05:43 PM) *
I watched. So what your telling me is Floyd bought his own purse bid for 40 mill, paid himself 32 out of the 40 he waisted and out of the kindness of his heart paid cotto 8 after he already spent his purse buying the bid? And all the while gbp who promoted the event is doing....?


It is my understanding the GP acts as a sort of subcontractor to Mayweather Promotions (TMT). They are paid a flat fee to carry out certain tasks. Floyd has consistently made comments that his opponents work for him and he is the one who pays them.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ May 10 2013, 06:43 PM) *
I watched. So what your telling me is Floyd bought his own purse bid for 40 mill, paid himself 32 out of the 40 he waisted and out of the kindness of his heart paid cotto 8 after he already spent his purse buying the bid? And all the while gbp who promoted the event is doing....?


golden boy was the promoter by default because floyd doesn't really have a promoters license. he piggy backs golden boy. floyds team put up the money for the event...and they collect most of it. yes...he paid cotto, not golden boy. if cotto's check did come from golden boy i'm sure it was only a formality. so the money went from mayweather>goldenboy>cotto. cotto was deserving of that 10 mil...and i'm sure part of his bargaining chip was that he had top rank and pac on the other side trying sell him their fight. with no bob arum involved...cotto got all the money. floyd is out the picture on a canelo/cotto fight and the shills are already hard at work. i've seen the articles about cotto not being a ppv fighter...blah,blah,blah...trying to discredit him. it's so blatantly obvious. fuckin hacks. laugh.gif if he gets anything more than 3 mil i will be shocked! i don't know for sure...but i don't think cotto is a registered promoter either...so he used gbp to help him with his event at msg against trout. so in that instance....i'm sure he or his ppl put up their money and he in essence paid trout. cotto may have collected a hefty sum in that situation. unfortunately...he loss. if he wants to make that kind of money again...he's going to have to find a fighter with a big enough name who isn't tied to a big time promoter that he can dictate terms to. he can't do that to canelo when he has golden boy behind him.
daprofessor
QUOTE (scdrking2 @ May 10 2013, 07:00 PM) *
It is my understanding the GP acts as a sort of subcontractor to Mayweather Promotions (TMT). They are paid a flat fee to carry out certain tasks. Floyd has consistently made comments that his opponents work for him and he is the one who pays them.


this.
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 10 2013, 03:46 PM) *
that makes no sense. he pays them for their services...so how is he whoring himself to trainers? now if he kept switching promoters...who basically ho out the fighters...then that would apply.


It makes no sense to you because you lack understanding in this situation. He's a puerto rican version of Chad Dawson. Now I dare you to dispute that shit. Both of them switch trainers, when the L's pile up they pointing fingers and switch trainers

And I didn't say ho I said whore, your equating this to pimp shit, I thought you were from the Chi laugh.gif ...get it right

Cotto got brutally beaten by Margarito and how long did he stay with Evangelista after that? He just went left field on Manny Steward and went to Pedro, now he;s thinking about going with Freddie. Whores sleep around my dude..wake up lol
mrchitown
QUOTE (scdrking2 @ May 10 2013, 06:00 PM) *
It is my understanding the GP acts as a sort of subcontractor to Mayweather Promotions (TMT). They are paid a flat fee to carry out certain tasks. Floyd has consistently made comments that his opponents work for him and he is the one who pays them.


Truth.com
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 11 2013, 05:36 AM) *
It makes no sense to you because you lack understanding in this situation. He's a puerto rican version of Chad Dawson. Now I dare you to dispute that shit. Both of them switch trainers, when the L's pile up they pointing fingers and switch trainers

And I didn't say ho I said whore, your equating this to pimp shit, I thought you were from the Chi laugh.gif ...get it right

Cotto got brutally beaten by Margarito and how long did he stay with Evangelista after that? He just went left field on Manny Steward and went to Pedro, now he;s thinking about going with Freddie. Whores sleep around my dude..wake up lol


now that u put it that way. laugh.gif

i been gone from the chi for a while now. 2 yrs since the last time i visited. unsure.gif i thought 'ho is short for whore?
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 13 2013, 07:04 PM) *
now that u put it that way. laugh.gif

i been gone from the chi for a while now. 2 yrs since the last time i visited. unsure.gif i thought 'ho is short for whore?


I got to take you to 63rd, the pimps over there have quotables for days lol

I think Cotto will be alright, but I think he is making a mistake this time by leaving Pedro. Diaz did some good things in his time training Miguel, but Cotto also benefited from the late great Emmanuel Steward improving his balance
Franchize
I just think Cotto isn't willing, at this point in his career, to put in the strength and conditioning work Pedro Diaz requires of him. It's one thing to be in shape. It's another thing to be a gym rat and push your body to the limit like Marquez and Floyd. I think Cotto just wants a normal training camp focusing on Boxing. He's well within his rights to do so, and it may benefit his fight style, but you can't deny he was in phenomenal shape vs Floyd.
mgrover
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 14 2013, 05:44 PM) *
I just think Cotto isn't willing, at this point in his career, to put in the strength and conditioning work Pedro Diaz requires of him. It's one thing to be in shape. It's another thing to be a gym rat and push your body to the limit like Marquez and Floyd. I think Cotto just wants a normal training camp focusing on Boxing. He's well within his rights to do so, and it may benefit his fight style, but you can't deny he was in phenomenal shape vs Floyd.


But was he?? He seemed to gas down the stretch, maybe it's just me. No you can't blame him to focus on Boxing but when he does lose because of it, Margarito I, then am sure you can blame him.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 14 2013, 12:31 AM) *
I got to take you to 63rd, the pimps over there have quotables for days lol

I think Cotto will be alright, but I think he is making a mistake this time by leaving Pedro. Diaz did some good things in his time training Miguel, but Cotto also benefited from the late great Emmanuel Steward improving his balance


i grew up in englewood near 59th...my neighbor was a pimp from back in the day...big frank. dude drove nothing but lincolns. that was his trade mark. he had some bad ho's too! he used to drive his lincoln through the neighborhood backwards so he wouldn't rack up miles on them. i thought that was the coolest shit when i was a kid. smh.

i think diaz undid what manny fixed with cotto's balance. diaz had him fighting on the front foot. steward had him sitting down more. the more i see diaz...and what he produces...i'm realizing he's good at pushing guys and getting them in shape...but when it comes to the mechanics and what i call the geometry of fighting....he misses a lot of important things.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 14 2013, 01:35 PM) *
But was he?? He seemed to gas down the stretch, maybe it's just me. No you can't blame him to focus on Boxing but when he does lose because of it, Margarito I, then am sure you can blame him.


i thought he gassed too. it's mental. cotto is just not comfortable with 12 round fights.
Franchize
I thought Cotto last way longer than I expected him to in the Mayweather fight. Cotto strikes me as a guy who gets fat between fight now. I don't think, with Pedro, he can afford to do that. Our opinions of Pedro aside, I don't see how getting Freddy Roach for a potential fight with Canelo would help him at all. Do we all agree on that?
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 14 2013, 02:13 PM) *
i grew up in englewood near 59th...my neighbor was a pimp from back in the day...big frank. dude drove nothing but lincolns. that was his trade mark. he had some bad ho's too! he used to drive his lincoln through the neighborhood backwards so he wouldn't rack up miles on them. i thought that was the coolest shit when i was a kid. smh.

i think diaz undid what manny fixed with cotto's balance. diaz had him fighting on the front foot. steward had him sitting down more. the more i see diaz...and what he produces...i'm realizing he's good at pushing guys and getting them in shape...but when it comes to the mechanics and what i call the geometry of fighting....he misses a lot of important things.


I like Diaz, I think he enhanced somewhat on what Steward taught Miguel, I'm sure in time we'll get the reason for the split between the two
checkleft
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 14 2013, 10:25 PM) *
I thought Cotto last way longer than I expected him to in the Mayweather fight. Cotto strikes me as a guy who gets fat between fight now. I don't think, with Pedro, he can afford to do that. Our opinions of Pedro aside, I don't see how getting Freddy Roach for a potential fight with Canelo would help him at all. Do we all agree on that?

Agreed. I could see him doing better with Garcia, he does a wonderful job with mikey
mgrover
QUOTE (Franchize @ May 15 2013, 04:25 AM) *
I thought Cotto last way longer than I expected him to in the Mayweather fight. Cotto strikes me as a guy who gets fat between fight now. I don't think, with Pedro, he can afford to do that. Our opinions of Pedro aside, I don't see how getting Freddy Roach for a potential fight with Canelo would help him at all. Do we all agree on that?


Definitely, Cotto doesn't have the physical attributes for that and all that'll happen is he'll come forward and get his face ruined, I mean Cotto already knows how to cut off the ring and how to effectively be aggressive I just think he can't afford to fight at 154lb.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ May 15 2013, 12:35 AM) *
Agreed. I could see him doing better with Garcia, he does a wonderful job with mikey


i think garcia is overrated.
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