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daprofessor


should have been the fab 5 if hagler fought benitez.
mgrover
who was the best of the fab four?
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 11 2013, 05:57 AM) *
who was the best of the fab four?


In terms of record then it would be SRL with his gimme win over MH, rematch win over Duran and 1st win over TH plus the gimme he got in the 2nd fight which he should've lost (not to mention I thought he lost to Hagler too and it should've been a 15 rounder/he would've gotten starched if it was) but if you want to say who was the best then without a doubt it would be Hagler.

Marvin could do it all, fight from both the Orthodoxed and SP stances, jab was great, speed was underrated, punching power was very good, chin was unquestionable, heart the same and I don't care what the record books show-IMHO he beat SRL in that fight but the popular guy was given the decision due to showboating and fame.
mitukczuk
The best of the fab four? I have to say Hagler too...at least boxing wise. SRL can't be denied because he was a marketable dude with a lot of star power who drew people to tv screens. Can't deny that...But it is Hagler for sure. As I said in another thread....that guy's determination was unrivaled! True, blue collar boxing WORKER ! Toughest fighter I have ever seen in the ring....
neophyte7
Hearns is the best... WON TITLES AT 147 154 160 168 and 175... sure he was tkod three times but the Joe Louis was KOd multiple times and is still regarded by many as the GREATEST EVER... Its is very interesting examining hearns and Hagler and the similar opposition they faced... Juan Domingo Roldan- knocked Hagler down and gave him a hard fight until Hagler stopped him in ten-- Hearns got rid of Roldan in 4 rounds...Marcus Geraldo gave Hagler ten hard rounds- Hearns dispatched him in one round. Not saying I am using this to say Hearns is better, yet it is just interesting examining how past greats did against the same opponents. Hearns in my view accomplished more in the sport. His 1991 UD win over 175 pound light heavyweight champ Virgill Hill was a great accomplishment for the former 147 pounder
Jovi
Hagler just a beast. Great boxer probably the toughest man to ever step in the right. Never been Knocked down, im not counting the Rolden fight. His punches didn't look fun to take at all. The only that he didnt have better than SRL was speed, and thats why SRL dazzled against him. But other than that Hagler has it all...Might as well have called him superman in the ring. Rank 1st

SRL was awsome in all ways. I love his style, and to be able to stay in the ring with Hagler and not be KOd is a great achievement by itself, but i can see why he didnt want that rematch with Hagler haha. Sadly that fight is the reason Hagler retired :\.....When SRL was clean he could beat anyone. so gonna rank him 2nd

Tommy Hearns- Boxer with a style like my own. Tall, skinny, lanky, Powerful. The classic 1-2 punch on a super level. he could've been the best if only his chin was better. If he couldve gone all 12 rounds with Hearns who knew what would've happend. He probably wouldve got SRL out quicker too. The rematch i feel he won too but they were both so much older by then. The first fight was a great display by SRL. Id rank him 3rd just because of his chin.

Roberto Duran- Reminds me of Pacquiao now but much better because of his boxer and defense. I still need to watch him vs Hagler. He had a bad time against hagler, that Falcon punch always will give someone a bad time. out of them all i would rank him 4th but obviously still a great.
neophyte7
QUOTE (Jovi @ May 11 2013, 11:38 AM) *
Hagler just a beast. Great boxer probably the toughest man to ever step in the right. Never been Knocked down, im not counting the Rolden fight. His punches didn't look fun to take at all. The only that he didnt have better than SRL was speed, and thats why SRL dazzled against him. But other than that Hagler has it all...Might as well have called him superman in the ring. Rank 1st

SRL was awsome in all ways. I love his style, and to be able to stay in the ring with Hagler and not be KOd is a great achievement by itself, but i can see why he didnt want that rematch with Hagler haha. Sadly that fight is the reason Hagler retired :\.....When SRL was clean he could beat anyone. so gonna rank him 2nd

Tommy Hearns- Boxer with a style like my own. Tall, skinny, lanky, Powerful. The classic 1-2 punch on a super level. he could've been the best if only his chin was better. If he couldve gone all 12 rounds with Hearns who knew what would've happend. He probably wouldve got SRL out quicker too. The rematch i feel he won too but they were both so much older by then. The first fight was a great display by SRL. Id rank him 3rd just because of his chin.

Roberto Duran- Reminds me of Pacquiao now but much better because of his boxer and defense. I still need to watch him vs Hagler. He had a bad time against hagler, that Falcon punch always will give someone a bad time. out of them all i would rank him 4th but obviously still a great.


I cannot disagree with you. I just feel overall Hearns accomplished more than all of them.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ May 11 2013, 10:28 AM) *
Hearns is the best... WON TITLES AT 147 154 160 168 and 175... sure he was tkod three times but the Joe Louis was KOd multiple times and is still regarded by many as the GREATEST EVER... Its is very interesting examining hearns and Hagler and the similar opposition they faced... Juan Domingo Roldan- knocked Hagler down and gave him a hard fight until Hagler stopped him in ten-- Hearns got rid of Roldan in 4 rounds...Marcus Geraldo gave Hagler ten hard rounds- Hearns dispatched him in one round. Not saying I am using this to say Hearns is better, yet it is just interesting examining how past greats did against the same opponents. Hearns in my view accomplished more in the sport. His 1991 UD win over 175 pound light heavyweight champ Virgill Hill was a great accomplishment for the former 147 pounder



Yes, but Hagler destroyed Hearns and he never wanted a rematch to try and redeem himself either-if he did face Marvelous again and won then I would say he's the better fighter.
neophyte7
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 11 2013, 11:48 AM) *
Yes, but Hagler destroyed Hearns and he never wanted a rematch to try and redeem himself either-if he did face Marvelous again and won then I would say he's the better fighter.




Yes.. but Hagler's destruction of Hearns did not fold him.. He went on to accomplish more than Hagler did. A mere mortal fighter would have never been the same after what Hagler did to him, but Tommy was a gladiator despite a suspect chin. I understand your rationale on him losing to hagler yet RJJ lost to Tarver three times (Roy lost the first fight as well) yet no one will concede Tarver being better than RJJ. Jones is still regarded as the better fighter based on what he accomplished overall
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ May 11 2013, 12:15 PM) *
Yes.. but Hagler's destruction of Hearns did not fold him.. He went on to accomplish more than Hagler did. A mere mortal fighter would have never been the same after what Hagler did to him, but Tommy was a gladiator despite a suspect chin. I understand your rationale on him losing to hagler yet RJJ lost to Tarver three times (Roy lost the first fight as well) yet no one will concede Tarver being better than RJJ. Jones is still regarded as the better fighter based on what he accomplished overall



You have a valid point except that Roy fought Tarver 3 times, did TH go all out to rematch Hagler?? That proves something to me from the mind of TH (who I'm a huge fan of), it basically said that he knew he wasn't better and would get put to sleep again. Sure Hearns accomplished more but in terms of the mental between them we can see that not even Hearns believed he was better.
neophyte7
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ May 11 2013, 03:19 PM) *
You have a valid point except that Roy fought Tarver 3 times, did TH go all out to rematch Hagler?? That proves something to me from the mind of TH (who I'm a huge fan of), it basically said that he knew he wasn't better and would get put to sleep again. Sure Hearns accomplished more but in terms of the mental between them we can see that not even Hearns believed he was better.


That is a myth HEARNS NEVER WANTED A REMATCH-- I was a kid in Detroit at the time and I can tell you he wanted a rematch---According to my understanding a rematch was eyed for November 1986 after Hearns made quick work of the #1 contender JAMES "BLACK GOLD SCHULER) the same night Hagler fought Beast Mugabi and said that was his toughest fight.. he even hinted of quitting. Hearns eyed a rematch and it was talk by his manager that Hearns would get a rematch.. then Ray Leonard who was on hand to see a more vulnerable hagler came out of retirement to want a shot at HAGLER.. Hagler chose Ray Leonard

these are some quotes from Hearns in the Chicago Tribune 1986 ``I`ll go right after him again,`` Hearns promised, noting strategy that many thought ill-founded last year. ``I`m a different person than the one who fought Hagler last year. I feel great, my legs are strong and I can execute everytime.

``I have something to prove. There`s never a day that goes by that I don`t think about a rematch. It was difficult for me to train with Hagler here. I kept thinking about him and it was hard to concentrate on Shuler.``

Hagler response to a Hearns rematch Hagler, who initially said he would think about whether he wants a rematch with Hearns, later added: ``I`ve worked through them all and I don`t think anyone`s left. I`m going around again.``.
Hotsauce
what about srl vs pryor?
neophyte7


QUOTE (Hotsauce @ May 11 2013, 06:27 PM) *
what about srl vs pryor?



Leonard ran from Aaron Pryor... literally in my view. I guess the clips of Pryor whipping Hearns ass in the amatuers scared him shitless
Amandla
Marvin is my favourite fighter of ALL TIME. The only reason that fight was so close with SRL is because Hagler let him get int his head. This is WHY I think Floyd would beat Hagler (If they matched up weight wise). Floyd can get into your head even more than Leonard could.

I wish someone would write a decent authorised biography of the man,=.
mgrover
Leonard seemed to run from a lot of people till they looked bad and what not, who did he beat on there best day
klonopinz
Since nobody is repping duran, I have to jump in here for my boy. The very fact that duran is even mentioned with these other 3 big huge athletic men, makes him even more amazing. This was a skinny kid from the dirts of panama, a lightweight fighter who gave all these guys a hard fucking time. This guy was almost always at a disadvantage whenever he fought any of the other 3. His arm length always screwed him over big time, especially with hearns. He could deal with the speed of leonard, the reach of hagler, but not both at the same time, thats why he got knocked out by hearns.

But you also have to remember this, he was the only one to beat sugar ray leonard of the 3, and tommy hearns knocked him out, but then got knocked out by Iran Barkley, whom duran defeated and went the distance with, even dropped his ass, at 38 years old. He even went the distance with hagler in haglers prime, the only guy hagler couldnt kncokout during his rampage at middleweight. And no, i beleive hagler was about done when leonard fought him in 87, he wanted leonard in 1982, but never got him. Duran was the first guy to really step up and give marvin hagler a super fight.

And he gave hagler hell. He fought the man toe to toe,on the inside, which NOBODY else survived. Anybody that fought hagler on the inside, toe to toe, got knocked out hard, liek hearns, or eventually taken into deep water and drowned over time, like mugabi. . Duran is so underrated its ridiculous. He had more skill than any of the other 3, but his physical gifts werent as great as theres, yet he competed with them all. Yes, you can tell im a super duran fanboy lol
klonopinz
I forgot to address his loss to benitez, yes he lsot to benitez, but benitez got KOd by moore, who duran KOd, he also lost to hamsho, who got KOd by hagler, who duran went the distance with. My point is, this man went the distance with all the murderers and killers that nobody else could deal with, and he gave them hell, i think he actually enjoyed taunting them aswell. Duran was just a mean SOB in the ring. But he would give away all his purse money to the poor kids wherever he was fighting at, outside the ring, the guy was gave back, and was a hero.
neophyte7
QUOTE (klonopinz @ May 11 2013, 10:33 PM) *
I forgot to address his loss to benitez, yes he lsot to benitez, but benitez got KOd by moore, who duran KOd, he also lost to hamsho, who got KOd by hagler, who duran went the distance with. My point is, this man went the distance with all the murderers and killers that nobody else could deal with, and he gave them hell, i think he actually enjoyed taunting them aswell. Duran was just a mean SOB in the ring. But he would give away all his purse money to the poor kids wherever he was fighting at, outside the ring, the guy was gave back, and was a hero.



Hands of stone definitely is worthy of being considered the best of the bunch and his accomplishments back him up. His performance against Iran Barkely was great. Iran was a huge middle weight and Duran busted his ass something terrible in a great bout.... Hands of stone is one of my favorite fighters. He was not intimidated of Hagler in the slightest.
Hotsauce
there is a hands of stone movie coming out
neophyte7
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ May 13 2013, 09:08 AM) *
there is a hands of stone movie coming out



Great title for a Duran story if the movie is in fact about him.
Jovi
Just watched Hagler/Duran. I had Hagler comfortably ahead of the fight, the judges had it way too close in my eyes. Hagler's defense and speed is better than i thought, he was deflecting alot of Duran's punches, but that right hand was catching his eye, rounds 11-13 weren't fun for Hagler. But after that he still outworked, and out boxed Duran. Duran seemed tired too early, if Hagler hadn't gone so hard at the beginning and wasn't looking for the knockout so early he would've gotten it later if he just starting early with the body shots. Wasn't as clean as SRL or as brutal Hearns, but still a solid win for Hagler.

Hands of Stone is about Roberto Duran......with Usher as Sugar Ray Leonard...... wtf.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (klonopinz @ May 11 2013, 10:24 PM) *
Since nobody is repping duran, I have to jump in here for my boy. The very fact that duran is even mentioned with these other 3 big huge athletic men, makes him even more amazing. This was a skinny kid from the dirts of panama, a lightweight fighter who gave all these guys a hard fucking time. This guy was almost always at a disadvantage whenever he fought any of the other 3. His arm length always screwed him over big time, especially with hearns. He could deal with the speed of leonard, the reach of hagler, but not both at the same time, thats why he got knocked out by hearns.

But you also have to remember this, he was the only one to beat sugar ray leonard of the 3, and tommy hearns knocked him out, but then got knocked out by Iran Barkley, whom duran defeated and went the distance with, even dropped his ass, at 38 years old. He even went the distance with hagler in haglers prime, the only guy hagler couldnt kncokout during his rampage at middleweight. And no, i beleive hagler was about done when leonard fought him in 87, he wanted leonard in 1982, but never got him. Duran was the first guy to really step up and give marvin hagler a super fight.

And he gave hagler hell. He fought the man toe to toe,on the inside, which NOBODY else survived. Anybody that fought hagler on the inside, toe to toe, got knocked out hard, liek hearns, or eventually taken into deep water and drowned over time, like mugabi. . Duran is so underrated its ridiculous. He had more skill than any of the other 3, but his physical gifts werent as great as theres, yet he competed with them all. Yes, you can tell im a super duran fanboy lol


this...minus the last sentence. laugh.gif
daprofessor
QUOTE (neophyte7 @ May 13 2013, 11:37 AM) *
Great title for a Duran story if the movie is in fact about him.


gabriel gael garcia is playing duran and robert dinero is playing ray arcel. it's coming out.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Jovi @ May 13 2013, 12:07 PM) *
Just watched Hagler/Duran. I had Hagler comfortably ahead of the fight, the judges had it way too close in my eyes. Hagler's defense and speed is better than i thought, he was deflecting alot of Duran's punches, but that right hand was catching his eye, rounds 11-13 weren't fun for Hagler. But after that he still outworked, and out boxed Duran. Duran seemed tired too early, if Hagler hadn't gone so hard at the beginning and wasn't looking for the knockout so early he would've gotten it later if he just starting early with the body shots. Wasn't as clean as SRL or as brutal Hearns, but still a solid win for Hagler.

Hands of Stone is about Roberto Duran......with Usher as Sugar Ray Leonard...... wtf.gif


shit. i forgot about that part.

that tells u something about duran...."rounds 11-13 weren't fun for hagler..."

when i was a kid i was afraid for duran in this fight. i thought hagler was going to kill him...as did many others. duran held his own.

duran's book is a very good read. i highly recommend it.
Hotsauce
srl could probably play himself in that movie
klonopinz
The thing about hagler tho, he had a chin of titanium that allowed him to expoloit, duran did not have that guft, and relied on pure skill and defense to survive murderous punchers. If it wasnt for haglers chin, i no he wouldnt hvae survived some of those wars he fought, especially hearns. The reason hagler beat duran had a lot do do with durans jab, or lack there of. Durans arms were too small for him to reach hagler with a jab, therefore he couldnt fuck with hagler alot on the outside. So he was landing his short right hands inside, and boxing hagler when he could. Hagler, born invulnerable to punches, didnt have durans respect as far as being able to hurt him, so he just outworked him because he could. If duran cant stop hagler from coming forward, then he can only really potshot him when he does.

Hagler had a huge ass reach on him, was a natural middleweight, was in his prime, and was fighting his first big fight, so he had more to prove. Duran was slowly burning out at this stage, at 34. He had already beaten leonard, fought everyone under the sun in the 70s, and he was constantly fighting guy where he was at a disadvantage in weight, frame, and age, (usually all 3).

Before i go, i want you guys to look at some analagies compared to the 80s when considering duran. Im using pacquiao because he holds the same class and position that duran did, being they are the same size, went up in weight, are poor kids from 3rd world, etc etc

147 Duran vs Leonard = Pacquiao vs Mayweather, with pacquiao winning lol
154 Duran vs Hearns = pacquiao vs paul williams, this is just ridiculous
160 Duran vs Hagler = Pacquiao vs golovkin
168 Duran vs Barkley = Pacquiao vs Ward, dude, come on.....
Genius
tongue.gif The Sugar man beat all of them.....
daprofessor
QUOTE (klonopinz @ May 14 2013, 12:19 AM) *
The thing about hagler tho, he had a chin of titanium that allowed him to expoloit, duran did not have that guft, and relied on pure skill and defense to survive murderous punchers. If it wasnt for haglers chin, i no he wouldnt hvae survived some of those wars he fought, especially hearns. The reason hagler beat duran had a lot do do with durans jab, or lack there of. Durans arms were too small for him to reach hagler with a jab, therefore he couldnt fuck with hagler alot on the outside. So he was landing his short right hands inside, and boxing hagler when he could. Hagler, born invulnerable to punches, didnt have durans respect as far as being able to hurt him, so he just outworked him because he could. If duran cant stop hagler from coming forward, then he can only really potshot him when he does.

Hagler had a huge ass reach on him, was a natural middleweight, was in his prime, and was fighting his first big fight, so he had more to prove. Duran was slowly burning out at this stage, at 34. He had already beaten leonard, fought everyone under the sun in the 70s, and he was constantly fighting guy where he was at a disadvantage in weight, frame, and age, (usually all 3).

Before i go, i want you guys to look at some analagies compared to the 80s when considering duran. Im using pacquiao because he holds the same class and position that duran did, being they are the same size, went up in weight, are poor kids from 3rd world, etc etc

147 Duran vs Leonard = Pacquiao vs Mayweather, with pacquiao winning lol
154 Duran vs Hearns = pacquiao vs paul williams, this is just ridiculous
160 Duran vs Hagler = Pacquiao vs golovkin
168 Duran vs Barkley = Pacquiao vs Ward, dude, come on.....


duran > pac

leonard > mayweather

hearns > williams

hagler > golovkin

ward > barkely (maybe...)

the only similarities they had was that they were little guys moving up in weight. duran was a beast.
klonopinz
it is a size comparison. not a fighter comparison. It shows you the ridiculousness of the fights he took
sduck
Hagler was the best of the four, Leonard got gift decisions.
daprofessor
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 13 2013, 07:49 PM) *
gabriel gael garcia is playing duran and robert dinero is playing ray arcel. it's coming out.


got this wrong. apparently gabriel gael garcia isn't involved anymore...they have some guy named edgar ramirez playing duran.

and i noticed freddie brown isn't even a character in the movie. that's some bullshit right there. fucking hollywood. smh.

here's all the info....

hands of stone
daprofessor
QUOTE (klonopinz @ May 14 2013, 06:06 PM) *
it is a size comparison. not a fighter comparison. It shows you the ridiculousness of the fights he took


roberto duran- ht. 5'7 reach 66"

ray leonard- ht. 5'10 reach 74"

tommy hearns- ht. 6'1 reach 78"

marvin hagler- ht. 5'9 1/2" reach 75"

interesting.

duran beat leonard...2nd fight even though leonard gets major credit for it, i'm not convinced it was on the level because of comments i've heard from ray and angelo. the 3rd fight didn't even happen til '89. leonard admitted he couldn't beat duran on equal terms.

leonard beat hearns the first time....but i thought they robbed tommy in the rematch. leonard has admitted that he thought tommy won. 1st fight was the shit! i remember it like it was yesterday.

hagler beat hearns in what is and forever will be my all time favorite fight. he beat duran...and i thought he beat leonard. i thought he held back against both.

hearns beat duran by vicious ko. that was the best he ever looked....and the worst duran ever looked. great ko for tommy.

so duran is the only one to beat leonard...officially. leonard has questionable victories over duran, hearns and hagler. hagler had the most impressive victory over tommy. tommy had the most impressive victory over duran.

i guess an argument can be made for any of these guys really if u look at what they accomplished outside of their fights against each other. something i cannot take away from any of them....they all wanted to prove their greatness....and they all did imo. these guys were all cut from different clothes and fighters like them don't seem to exist these days.

Genius
QUOTE (sduck @ May 15 2013, 12:50 PM) *
Hagler was the best of the four, Leonard got gift decisions.

Gift decisions? Duran quit, he stopped Hearns and out boxed Hagler while being gone for years.
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