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BoxingEinstein

My uncle just saw the Peterson vs Matthysse fight. I know he's late but he hasn't had time to keep up with boxing till today. He picked Peterson to beat Lucas by 12 round decision and would favor Peterson against Garcia. After he saw the fight he couldn't believe what happened. My uncle is a boxing purist and likes guys outboxing each other instead of wars. To put it all in a nutshell to quote my uncle,"if was a trainer I wouldn't let my fighter fight his ass. Fuck that, you gotta clinch & hold that bad muthafucker."

So if you was a trainer for your fighter, what would be the game plan if your guy had to fight Matthysse?
mgrover
depends what skill set my fighter has. You can run all you like from him, but you need to find a way to make him respect your power and hesitate about coming in.
Dolimite
See the following matches:

Chavez Sr. versus Sweet Pea

James Tony vs. Roy Jones

Mayweather vs. Zab Judah



Out box them and out smart them. All those guys took away what made them dangerous and used it against them. Lucas isn't invincible but you have to be smart in order to get him out of his game plan.
Jovi
QUOTE (Dolimite @ May 24 2013, 09:18 AM) *
See the following matches:

Chavez Sr. versus Sweet Pea

James Tony vs. Roy Jones

Mayweather vs. Zab Judah



Out box them and out smart them. All those guys took away what made them dangerous and used it against them. Lucas isn't invincible but you have to be smart in order to get him out of his game plan.


Said it perfect. outbox them and outsmart them. For a guy like a Matthysse, he may not be the best boxer but the guy is smarter than most brawlers that i've seen. Judah was outboxing him and beating him to the punch because of that speed then got figured out.. Circle that fuu, when he throws a wide shot counter that ish and clinch, pick him apart from the outside and repeat process.. Matthysse also took Peterson out of his gameplan with the rabbit punches, atleast that's what he said. That clash of Left hooks was epic, Matthysse just looked like a G after that.
neophyte7
Watch Hopkins vs Echols 2...
pacco_diablo
Watch most of Wlad's fights, Mayweather's too. The best game plan to beat ANY fighter, even Mayweather, is with the consistent use of a well timed, unexpected jab. You have to use it when it's least expected. Fights generally have a certain rhythm to them. You have to break that rhythm and flow. Wlad has mastered the technique. It's the best way to frustrate any fighter and it opens up every door.

Wlad and Mayweather are both conductors. They control the rhythm of the fight. They may not control the action or pressure or anything else but... he who controls the rhythm, ultimately controls the fight.
daprofessor
seriously...matthysse is very beatable. i know exactly what to do to beat him. peterson could have done it. danny can do it. if people would look at it from a trainer/fighter stand point instead of a fan standpoint...they'd see it.

few things to consider....

he loads up on his shots and can be very wide...

he's not really fast but has decent speed....

he can box...but is most effective moving forward....

he can be outboxed...and has trouble with good movement....

i would feint and jab him for the first few rounds focusing on defense and not allowing him to set. after i've made him miss and slow pace i would then pick spots to attack and force him backwards then go right back to boxing. when his punches aren't as sharp...i'd sit in the pocket to allow him to throw and i'd counter the shit out of him then create space which will force him to have to set up again. before he'd set up...i'd attack again. rinse and repeat.

when he's lunging and leaning with his wide ass shots i would look to set him up with uppercuts that would be cleaned up with wicked hooks and crosses. anytime u land a shot on him u have to put the fear of god in him by following it up with fierce accurate shots and go right back to defense to keep him from landing anything significant. if u can physically force him backwards...the fight is won. think shane/maragito. sometimes u have to step into the eye of the storm. zab and alexander both out boxed matthysse easily. had they been more aggressive in their counters and actually turned into or committed to their shots they may have done far more damage and tamed the beast. going to the body is a must to take some of the steam out of him.

everything i just stated is easier said than done. training to accomplish all of this objectives needs to be carefully and thoughtfully executed.

pm me for rates and availability.
BoxingEinstein

It's funny everyone still underrates his boxing skills, crazy that his power really does eclipse everything he has. Box and pray is the motto and clinch as much as possible.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ May 24 2013, 07:04 PM) *
It's funny everyone still underrates his boxing skills, crazy that his power really does eclipse everything he has. Box and pray is the motto and clinch as much as possible.


i know his capabilities very well. i've seen them first hand in the gym. he's human.
Cheesey1
Again, congrats to Matthysse, but in my opinion, Peterson's fatal mistake was he threw a relatively wide punch when Matthysse did. Prior to that Peterson had made him miss a few times. Can't disagree with any of the comments made here re. the jab, clinch etc.

One thing that I think Matthysse has is very good punch timing (he's still slowish though).
mgrover
the thing is it seems that he can hurt you with any punch and to the majority of the average boxers we have, can any of them really win? I can only see someone elite avoid that for 12 rounds.
BoxingStill#1
In my opinion (as a trainer) I wouldn't have had Lamont fighting from the outside as he did. Mat's power is at the end of his punch and range isn't a good thing.

You have two options:

If you are going to box, you must have latteral movement. And ability to box on the move. The moment you set your feet mat's on the prowel..

Stay in his chest at all times. ( which Lamont is a master at). Fighting inside and making mat smother his own punches would have been nice to see.

Mixing it up would have led to an easy victory for Lamont. Goin ugly early was the key, then making him chase a bit by setting traps toward the end.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ May 24 2013, 09:34 PM) *
In my opinion (as a trainer) I wouldn't have had Lamont fighting from the outside as he did. Mat's power is at the end of his punch and range isn't a good thing.

You have two options:

If you are going to box, you must have latteral movement. And ability to box on the move. The moment you set your feet mat's on the prowel..

Stay in his chest at all times. ( which Lamont is a master at). Fighting inside and making mat smother his own punches would have been nice to see.

Mixing it up would have led to an easy victory for Lamont. Goin ugly early was the key, then making him chase a bit by setting traps toward the end.

Bingo! Probably the best answer I read and clear cut. The only answer is if that fighter can withstand that type of fight and sustain that amount of punishment when needed to get ugly. Matt also sets up traps, like when he feints a jab to the chest and steps outside his opponents dominant hand and either hook'em to the body or head. Excluding Floyd who do you think beats him at welter? Maybe Guerrero.
checkleft
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ May 24 2013, 07:04 PM) *
It's funny everyone still underrates his boxing skills, crazy that his power really does eclipse everything he has. Box and pray is the motto and clinch as much as possible.


+1
QUOTE (mgrover @ May 24 2013, 07:48 PM) *
the thing is it seems that he can hurt you with any punch and to the majority of the average boxers we have, can any of them really win? I can only see someone elite avoid that for 12 rounds.


I see it that way to
QUOTE (BoxingStill#1 @ May 24 2013, 09:34 PM) *
In my opinion (as a trainer) I wouldn't have had Lamont fighting from the outside as he did. Mat's power is at the end of his punch and range isn't a good thing.

You have two options:

If you are going to box, you must have latteral movement. And ability to box on the move. The moment you set your feet mat's on the prowel..

Stay in his chest at all times. ( which Lamont is a master at). Fighting inside and making mat smother his own punches would have been nice to see.

Mixing it up would have led to an easy victory for Lamont. Goin ugly early was the key, then making him chase a bit by setting traps toward the end.

Best post in this thread.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ May 24 2013, 11:32 PM) *
Bingo! Probably the best answer I read and clear cut. The only answer is if that fighter can withstand that type of fight and sustain that amount of punishment when needed to get ugly. Matt also sets up traps, like when he feints a jab to the chest and steps outside his opponents dominant hand and either hook'em to the body or head. Excluding Floyd who do you think beats him at welter? Maybe Guerrero.


In a perfect world, I'd like to see him in there with Bradley. I think he has the style and decent chin to beat him decisively.. perhaps better than Floyed fight
checkleft
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ May 24 2013, 11:32 PM) *
Bingo! Probably the best answer I read and clear cut. The only answer is if that fighter can withstand that type of fight and sustain that amount of punishment when needed to get ugly. Matt also sets up traps, like when he feints a jab to the chest and steps outside his opponents dominant hand and either hook'em to the body or head. Excluding Floyd who do you think beats him at welter? Maybe Guerrero.

Guerrero takes way too much leather. Maybe Bradley
Franchize
I think people come in Matthyssee fights thinking, let me score on a bunch of quick punches, frustrate him and then escape for the rest of the round. I think I'd approach it the exact opposite way. Slow the fight down. Be disciplined. Peterson came out jittery, shooting his jab with very little authority. He sped the fight up for no reason. Matthysse kept his composure, threw a few punches that missed but he was able to see how Peterson got out of the way of punches (Teddy Atlas saw the same thing and mentioned it on Friday Night Fights). Peterson was so worried about shooting that jab and collecting points. He didn't even realize he was falling right into a trap. I think you have to show Matthysse multiple looks. Don't be robotic. When he shoots one of those range finding, data collecting punches...one time, block it with your guard. The next time duck under. The next time back out of range. Then tie him up a few times. Then circle out of the way. Boxing sometimes is like when you first learned probability in Math. Remember P if then Q and all that shit? Matthysse knew everytime he shot the straight to Peterson's belly, he moved straight back. Then, Peterson got caught on the ropes which means there's no where to back straight up to. So he had to go left or right. He shot the body with the right and then followed with the left. Peterson got caught in the middle and that lead to the first knock down. If Peterson hadn't been so predictable, he might not have been knocked down. Matthysse knew exsctly how he was going to dodge the first punch though. You can't be predictable.
The Original MrFactor
It depends on who my fighter is. If its Mayweather, just "box." If its Danny Garcia, who I think is a tough kid, match fire with fire and see who comes out in the end.
Cshel86
1. Straight punches
2. Clinch
3. Turn him

Basically, a Carlos Molina-type of style shuts down Matthysse's offense.

Another thing to consider is dipping your head first, rather than him making you do it. When I say dip your head, I mean the way Mayweather has done in his recent bouts. Fake or throw a soft straight punch and dip quickly afterwards.

This way, Matthysse be forced to throw low and catch you while bent down. As long as he has the chance to land up top, he'll more than likely be successful.
checkleft
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ May 25 2013, 04:14 PM) *
It depends on who my fighter is. If its Mayweather, just "box." If its Danny Garcia, who I think is a tough kid, match fire with fire and see who comes out in the end.

That is exactly what I'm hoping for lol. This is gonna be a hella of a fight if it gets done
sduck
Box him, keep Matthysse moving so he can't position himself for one of those hard heading punches. Keep cutting off the ring, use your feet, tie him up when he gets close.
daprofessor
QUOTE (sduck @ May 26 2013, 04:53 PM) *
Box him, keep Matthysse moving so he can't position himself for one of those hard heading punches. Keep cutting off the ring, use your feet, tie him up when he gets close.


judah and alexander have pretty much laid the blue print.
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 27 2013, 10:09 PM) *
judah and alexander have pretty much laid the blue print.


I said it in another thread that if I were fighting Lucas or my fighter was fighting him, I'd give him movement, I don't think it takes a hard puncher to get to Lucas but if you box him....hit him with your shots and turn him, then he's useless. Peterson could've made the fight so much easier for himself but he reverted back to what he knows and that's going in the trenches and banging away. He had a good first round and I thought he was going to build on that

Zab got him pretty good by hitting him and turning him so he wouldn't be able to get his shots off. If a power puncher isn't set then he has to do something else. We haven't seen Lucas have to do something else just yet

daprofessor
QUOTE (mrchitown @ May 29 2013, 02:20 AM) *
I said it in another thread that if I were fighting Lucas or my fighter was fighting him, I'd give him movement, I don't think it takes a hard puncher to get to Lucas but if you box him....hit him with your shots and turn him, then he's useless. Peterson could've made the fight so much easier for himself but he reverted back to what he knows and that's going in the trenches and banging away. He had a good first round and I thought he was going to build on that

Zab got him pretty good by hitting him and turning him so he wouldn't be able to get his shots off. If a power puncher isn't set then he has to do something else. We haven't seen Lucas have to do something else just yet


all of matthysse's opponents since alexander have cooperated with him. none of them have forced him to have to dig deep or force him to have to work hard to get what he wanted. that is going to be the difference imo when he fights garcia. garcia is going to throw with him. garcia can box and counter. garcia is good with both hands and definitely has more punching ability than anyone matthysse has faced in quite some time.
mrchitown
QUOTE (daprofessor @ May 29 2013, 07:09 PM) *
all of matthysse's opponents since alexander have cooperated with him. none of them have forced him to have to dig deep or force him to have to work hard to get what he wanted. that is going to be the difference imo when he fights garcia. garcia is going to throw with him. garcia can box and counter. garcia is good with both hands and definitely has more punching ability than anyone matthysse has faced in quite some time.


Agreed on all points...after the 2 fights against Judah and Alexander, Matthysse's people knew what they were doing in maneuvering him. Garcia is a different type of animal then what Matthysse has faced recently, it makes for compelling drama in the fight
checkleft
I think ajose would have done a much better job if he wasn't do brave.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 1 2013, 08:36 AM) *
I think ajose would have done a much better job if he wasn't do brave.


he was coming off a pretty long lay off too.

make no mistake about it...matthysse's last run of opponents were chosen carefully to make him look good. danny is not an opponent.
BrutUalBK
If I were a Trainer, I'd tell my fighter to stay as close to Lucas as possible, it appears that he is very heavy handed and that his power really snaps off at the end of his long punches, his short shots do not seem to do much damage. I'd have my fighter box but continually turn him, never going to the ropes and never if at all possible going backwards in a straight line/use of a double jab is utmost and then let the combo 1-2 go (no more than that because fire is coming back).

Keep his chin down/tucked because LM swings for the head the majority of the time, someone like Floyd's tight defense will do wonders vs LM in close quarters, if you find yourself on the outside of him then you must use lateral movement always and roll with all punches if you are on the end of them. Never committ to any offense on him without using feints first when outside followed behind the double jab.

A guy like LM has to find that in your mentality he cannot outbully/outmuscle you and limiting his power punching will do just that at close quarters as long as you do not allow him to create space.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 3 2013, 01:56 PM) *
he was coming off a pretty long lay off too.

make no mistake about it...matthysse's last run of opponents were chosen carefully to make him look good. danny is not an opponent.

Idk about that. Ajose was a wildcard, he was unproven but good enough to keep the top fighters the fuck away. He had been begging for a meaningful fight for almost two years but nobody wants to go up against an unmarketable dude with skills like him. And that boy proved he's bad even in losing.

Humberto was a nice crowd pleasing fight. Dallas was a fill in for...? I forget who, someone help me out.

And lamont can hang with anyone at 140, but he's just so jittery and can get caught cold early.

I want this Danny fight bad, Danny is clutch and Lucas is a manimal.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 3 2013, 07:39 PM) *
Idk about that. Ajose was a wildcard, he was unproven but good enough to keep the top fighters the fuck away. He had been begging for a meaningful fight for almost two years but nobody wants to go up against an unmarketable dude with skills like him. And that boy proved he's bad even in losing.

Humberto was a nice crowd pleasing fight. Dallas was a fill in for...? I forget who, someone help me out.

And lamont can hang with anyone at 140, but he's just so jittery and can get caught cold early.

I want this Danny fight bad, Danny is clutch and Lucas is a manimal.


ajose hadn't fought for a whole year before he fought matthysse. he was definitely avoided and for good reason. tough dude.

humberto's best days were at 130-135....but he fought with pure heart and hung in there for a few rounds.

dallas was in a fragile state having just lost his pops to lukemia and had a new trainer in virgil hunter...but i didn't believe he was on matthysses level even though i was rooting for him.

the peterson win was legit. it went exactly as i thought it would.

i too want the garcia/matthysse fight. these guys are number 1 and 2 in the division. it needs to happen.
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