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checkleft
So its not looking good for the Lucas and Danny fight. Anybody got anymore info or thoughts/inputs on this?

It really sounds like someone is avoiding a certain someone
Dolimite
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 26 2013, 05:42 PM) *
So its not looking good for the Lucas and Danny fight. Anybody got anymore info or thoughts/inputs on this?

It really sounds like someone is avoiding a certain someone

I know that Chi and Professor hate the term duck, but this is what Garcia is doing. If Zab taxes Danny ass in the second fight then his stock is going down. 5 million? Are you fucking serious? Garcia is showing his true colors. Matthysse is in this kid's head. I guess whenever Danny sees a threat he will run and fight the guys he has already beating. Damn shame.
jtiizzle
I don't think it's a duck i hear that lucas is not agreeing to random blood and urine thats why the fight isn't happening. Anyways i would pick danny to win , another thing hey both are haymon fighters so that means haymon takes a L with whoever loses it's common sense i'm not suprised
checkleft
QUOTE (jtiizzle @ Jun 26 2013, 09:25 PM) *
I don't think it's a duck i hear that lucas is not agreeing to random blood and urine thats why the fight isn't happening. Anyways i would pick danny to win , another thing hey both are haymon fighters so that means haymon takes a L with whoever loses it's common sense i'm not suprised

Haymon wins more if both don't fight each other and keep winning.

Did he ask for random testing his last fight? I think he did do testing but I don't remember if it was random. But you don't think the 5 million (if its true) is the Garcia camps way of pricing themselves out?
Junior80
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 26 2013, 09:31 PM) *
Haymon wins more if both don't fight each other and keep winning.

Did he ask for random testing his last fight? I think he did do testing but I don't remember if it was random. But you don't think the 5 million (if its true) is the Garcia camps way of pricing themselves out?

The look in Danny's face at the conclusion of the Peterson fight said it all.....I got the feeling right there and then that he didn't want to fight Matthysse
checkleft
QUOTE (Junior80 @ Jun 26 2013, 09:51 PM) *
The look in Danny's face at the conclusion of the Peterson fight said it all.....I got the feeling right there and then that he didn't want to fight Matthysse

Danny did say he preferred if lamont won...
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 26 2013, 08:01 PM) *
I know that Chi and Professor hate the term duck, but this is what Garcia is doing. If Zab taxes Danny ass in the second fight then his stock is going down. 5 million? Are you fucking serious? Garcia is showing his true colors. Matthysse is in this kid's head. I guess whenever Danny sees a threat he will run and fight the guys he has already beating. Damn shame.


Yeah I don't but I really don't see the point in him fighting Zab again, I think Zab can pick up where he left off in the first fight. He took some of Danny's weapons away and though Danny was able to adjust, he couldn't sustain it for the full 12rds. I don't think this is a smart move by Danny or his team
checkleft
Just a curious question, has anyone ever even gotten paid 5 mill for a non ppv fight??
Hotsauce
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 27 2013, 01:41 AM) *
Just a curious question, has anyone ever even gotten paid 5 mill for a non ppv fight??


Maybe roy jones or b hop
Gambit808
Umm what happend to the supposed Jr.Welterweight tournament finale??? Danny only been on the scene for a year, and with all do respect to the two future HOF'ers he beat, he thinks those fights along with the khan fight puts him up there with JMM or Cotto's numbers? Gtfoh!!! U tellin me he's more interested in building his brand, by chasing a rematch with yet another "past his prime HOF'er" because again, he didn't look all that convincing the first time out. He'd rather that than face Matthysse, a guy who could put him in position to seeing those kind of figures quicker than a Zab Judah rematch could, assuming he wins and keeps winning?? Gtfoh!!!
Cshel86
Since when did Matthysse become the end all be all? He has the same problem as most "invincible" fighters...he looks too good in fights. As soon as he shows some flaws, they'll probably take the fight. Showing flaws against one fighter, doesn't always equate to being vulnerable to the next guy.

Matthysse STILL wont bring Danny the money that he's looking for. Not only that, but stardom has a lot to do with it. Right now, Danny is the unified champ, and they're doing their best to make this guy a star. I have no problem with them building him up, besides, we do need more stars in the sport, so WE (hardcore fans) wont clamor and demand "big" fights, that the general public has no idea about.

I hate to say this, but it's true...the general public has more say-so than us hardcore fans. Casual fans bring in these big numbers (translation: money) to the sport. A lot of us here, will bark about refusing to pay for a PPV (depending on the fight), but if the general public is interested and buys into it, then that's a victory for the sport (translation: more money and exposure).

I'm not big on letting fights marinate, but let's be real here...who has more star power potential...Garcia or Matthysse? Imagine if this "big fight" between them happens, and Danny loses...does that always equate to Matthysse being the next star in boxing. Think of it this way...promoters would much rather have another star in boxing, than to please us hardcore fans. As we all know, you cant please everyone.

So this time and money that they're putting into Danny, will surely go to waste if Matthysse beats him. Who in the world knows who Matthysse is? Hell, people hardly know who Garcia is, but they're building him up to be known by the general public....that's why he's fighting the likes of Morales and Judah (possibly again).

Anyone remember when Shane beat Oscar? What happened afterwards? Did he become this huge star just because he beat an established star in the sport? Nope. Instead, he went on take the hard fights that "fans" (fantasy fight lovers) wanted to see...and we all know what happened there. He missed out on a huge payday against Trinidad, JUST to lose to Wright, which he didn't have to fight at the time.

So trying to prove to the people that you're the "best, isn't always good for your pockets...hence why he's whoring for big paydays, and getting whooped up for small paydays. Imagine if he'd taken that fight with Trinidad for what I believe was a nice $10M, which took place after the Oscar rematch. He surely wouldn't be taking the route that he's taking nowadays.

Anyhow, the same goes for Danny. I believe he should take as many semi-easy paydays as possible...wouldn't you? They tried to feed him to Khan, in all hopes that he'd lose, and we saw what happened there. At this point, I believe that guys just wanna see Danny lose, but they mask it as, "the best should fight the best". To me, Matthysse is just a flash in the pan, not to take everything away from him, but guys like him, end up becoming an opponent after a while.

So Danny asking for $5M isn't...well, it does seem that he's pricing himself out a bit. I believe that he's asking for that much, because he could be making around 2M (or more) to fight old fading fighters who will build his name up. Let's be honest, right now, which fight would sell more tickets...a Judah rematch in Brooklyn, or a Matthysse fight in Vegas or California? My money is on the initial...the old legend who gave Danny problems late, plus the build-up was genuinely heated and damn near epic (in a sense).

I wouldn't be so quick to throw the "D" word (duck) around. We could easily be watching Danny fight either older legends, or sub par opponents for millions of dollars. As for the testing, shiiiit...get him tested. You know it goes in boxing...if a guy looks too good, then "something must be up". Trust me, when a fighter suddenly looks good, or an old legend seems to have gotten his step back...I ALWAYS wait for the post-fight drug tests, before I get excited.
MAHDI
[quote name='Cshel86' date='Jun 27 2013, 09:49 AM' post='584526']
Since when did Matthysse become the end all be all? He has the same problem as most "invincible" fighters...he looks too good in fights. As soon as he shows some flaws, they'll probably take the fight. Showing flaws against one fighter, doesn't always equate to being vulnerable to the next guy...


Anyone remember when Shane beat Oscar? What happened afterwards? Did he become this huge star just because he beat an established star in the sport? Nope. Instead, he went on take the hard fights that "fans" (fantasy fight lovers) wanted to see...and we all know what happened there. He missed out on a huge payday against Trinidad, JUST to lose to Wright, which he didn't have to fight at the time.

So trying to prove to the people that you're the "best, isn't always good for your pockets...hence why he's whoring for big paydays, and getting whooped up for small paydays. Imagine if he'd taken that fight with Trinidad for what I believe was a nice $10M, which took place after the Oscar rematch. He surely wouldn't be taking the route that he's taking nowadays.
[quote name='Cshel86' date='Jun 27 2013, 09:49 AM' post='584526']

Who in the hell was managing Shane? Himself, father... Garcia taking on Zab again is a risk yet it will resonate more with the public than a Matthyse bout in beating up Zab in a competitive scrap. Kind of a win - win for Garcia unless Zab surprises him and KOs him.. and even if Zab wins by KO or puts it on Garcia a third match would make money. Taking on Zab again could back fire-
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 27 2013, 05:49 AM) *
Since when did Matthysse become the end all be all? He has the same problem as most "invincible" fighters...he looks too good in fights. As soon as he shows some flaws, they'll probably take the fight. Showing flaws against one fighter, doesn't always equate to being vulnerable to the next guy.

Matthysse STILL wont bring Danny the money that he's looking for. Not only that, but stardom has a lot to do with it. Right now, Danny is the unified champ, and they're doing their best to make this guy a star. I have no problem with them building him up, besides, we do need more stars in the sport, so WE (hardcore fans) wont clamor and demand "big" fights, that the general public has no idea about.

I hate to say this, but it's true...the general public has more say-so than us hardcore fans. Casual fans bring in these big numbers (translation: money) to the sport. A lot of us here, will bark about refusing to pay for a PPV (depending on the fight), but if the general public is interested and buys into it, then that's a victory for the sport (translation: more money and exposure).

I'm not big on letting fights marinate, but let's be real here...who has more star power potential...Garcia or Matthysse? Imagine if this "big fight" between them happens, and Danny loses...does that always equate to Matthysse being the next star in boxing. Think of it this way...promoters would much rather have another star in boxing, than to please us hardcore fans. As we all know, you cant please everyone.

So this time and money that they're putting into Danny, will surely go to waste if Matthysse beats him. Who in the world knows who Matthysse is? Hell, people hardly know who Garcia is, but they're building him up to be known by the general public....that's why he's fighting the likes of Morales and Judah (possibly again).

Anyone remember when Shane beat Oscar? What happened afterwards? Did he become this huge star just because he beat an established star in the sport? Nope. Instead, he went on take the hard fights that "fans" (fantasy fight lovers) wanted to see...and we all know what happened there. He missed out on a huge payday against Trinidad, JUST to lose to Wright, which he didn't have to fight at the time.

So trying to prove to the people that you're the "best, isn't always good for your pockets...hence why he's whoring for big paydays, and getting whooped up for small paydays. Imagine if he'd taken that fight with Trinidad for what I believe was a nice $10M, which took place after the Oscar rematch. He surely wouldn't be taking the route that he's taking nowadays.

Anyhow, the same goes for Danny. I believe he should take as many semi-easy paydays as possible...wouldn't you? They tried to feed him to Khan, in all hopes that he'd lose, and we saw what happened there. At this point, I believe that guys just wanna see Danny lose, but they mask it as, "the best should fight the best". To me, Matthysse is just a flash in the pan, not to take everything away from him, but guys like him, end up becoming an opponent after a while.

So Danny asking for $5M isn't...well, it does seem that he's pricing himself out a bit. I believe that he's asking for that much, because he could be making around 2M (or more) to fight old fading fighters who will build his name up. Let's be honest, right now, which fight would sell more tickets...a Judah rematch in Brooklyn, or a Matthysse fight in Vegas or California? My money is on the initial...the old legend who gave Danny problems late, plus the build-up was genuinely heated and damn near epic (in a sense).

I wouldn't be so quick to throw the "D" word (duck) around. We could easily be watching Danny fight either older legends, or sub par opponents for millions of dollars. As for the testing, shiiiit...get him tested. You know it goes in boxing...if a guy looks too good, then "something must be up". Trust me, when a fighter suddenly looks good, or an old legend seems to have gotten his step back...I ALWAYS wait for the post-fight drug tests, before I get excited.

Matthysse is a one hit wonder! One shot is all it takes. He is an exciting fighter... Kinda like Pacquiao. People love nasty ass knockouts and Lucas provides that. Now is he a great technician? Not really, but he has solid hands. People love that. Danny wants to have a long career and do I blame him for wanting to put old legends on hid resume? No, but it makes his look suspect. 140 is an explosive division, he can't keep fighting old warriors, eventually Danny boy will have to get inside the ring a live wire. beating Matthysee could better his chances in the Mayweather lotto. Danny is really hurting himself and his record. People can go back and nip pick and say he has only fought older guys. Here is a chance for him to step into the lime light of boxing and stop the Machine. It is his career, however, fighting Zab is not an easy rematch, hardly. Zab has tasted his power and survived, Swift better be careful. Hell maybe this can be an undercard for The One... I really hate that title
checkleft
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 27 2013, 09:49 AM) *
Since when did Matthysse become the end all be all? He has the same problem as most "invincible" fighters...he looks too good in fights. As soon as he shows some flaws, they'll probably take the fight. Showing flaws against one fighter, doesn't always equate to being vulnerable to the next guy.

Matthysse STILL wont bring Danny the money that he's looking for. Not only that, but stardom has a lot to do with it. Right now, Danny is the unified champ, and they're doing their best to make this guy a star. I have no problem with them building him up, besides, we do need more stars in the sport, so WE (hardcore fans) wont clamor and demand "big" fights, that the general public has no idea about.

I hate to say this, but it's true...the general public has more say-so than us hardcore fans. Casual fans bring in these big numbers (translation: money) to the sport. A lot of us here, will bark about refusing to pay for a PPV (depending on the fight), but if the general public is interested and buys into it, then that's a victory for the sport (translation: more money and exposure).

I'm not big on letting fights marinate, but let's be real here...who has more star power potential...Garcia or Matthysse? Imagine if this "big fight" between them happens, and Danny loses...does that always equate to Matthysse being the next star in boxing. Think of it this way...promoters would much rather have another star in boxing, than to please us hardcore fans. As we all know, you cant please everyone.

So this time and money that they're putting into Danny, will surely go to waste if Matthysse beats him. Who in the world knows who Matthysse is? Hell, people hardly know who Garcia is, but they're building him up to be known by the general public....that's why he's fighting the likes of Morales and Judah (possibly again).

Anyone remember when Shane beat Oscar? What happened afterwards? Did he become this huge star just because he beat an established star in the sport? Nope. Instead, he went on take the hard fights that "fans" (fantasy fight lovers) wanted to see...and we all know what happened there. He missed out on a huge payday against Trinidad, JUST to lose to Wright, which he didn't have to fight at the time.

So trying to prove to the people that you're the "best, isn't always good for your pockets...hence why he's whoring for big paydays, and getting whooped up for small paydays. Imagine if he'd taken that fight with Trinidad for what I believe was a nice $10M, which took place after the Oscar rematch. He surely wouldn't be taking the route that he's taking nowadays.

Anyhow, the same goes for Danny. I believe he should take as many semi-easy paydays as possible...wouldn't you? They tried to feed him to Khan, in all hopes that he'd lose, and we saw what happened there. At this point, I believe that guys just wanna see Danny lose, but they mask it as, "the best should fight the best". To me, Matthysse is just a flash in the pan, not to take everything away from him, but guys like him, end up becoming an opponent after a while.

So Danny asking for $5M isn't...well, it does seem that he's pricing himself out a bit. I believe that he's asking for that much, because he could be making around 2M (or more) to fight old fading fighters who will build his name up. Let's be honest, right now, which fight would sell more tickets...a Judah rematch in Brooklyn, or a Matthysse fight in Vegas or California? My money is on the initial...the old legend who gave Danny problems late, plus the build-up was genuinely heated and damn near epic (in a sense).

I wouldn't be so quick to throw the "D" word (duck) around. We could easily be watching Danny fight either older legends, or sub par opponents for millions of dollars. As for the testing, shiiiit...get him tested. You know it goes in boxing...if a guy looks too good, then "something must be up". Trust me, when a fighter suddenly looks good, or an old legend seems to have gotten his step back...I ALWAYS wait for the post-fight drug tests, before I get excited.

Since when is danny the end all be all as well? The guy is acting like he runs this shit. A lot of his fights are becoming suspect, taking these BS rematches and padding his record is exactly what is wrong with boxing, fuck his "star power" his marketability and that shit. Matthysse has done good numbers on showtime and people love watching him no matter who thinks he's just a brawler. And he has done more than enlighten to get a shot at this kid that thinks he's number one but keeps taking old ass fighters instead of showing people he is the real deal. If the testing is the only reason for this fight not being made then yes its on Lucas but rumor is this cat is pricing himself out, motherfucker sounds like Andre berto 2.0 now! No way does this kid deserve that much money for any fight right now

daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 27 2013, 08:49 AM) *
Since when did Matthysse become the end all be all? He has the same problem as most "invincible" fighters...he looks too good in fights. As soon as he shows some flaws, they'll probably take the fight. Showing flaws against one fighter, doesn't always equate to being vulnerable to the next guy.

Matthysse STILL wont bring Danny the money that he's looking for. Not only that, but stardom has a lot to do with it. Right now, Danny is the unified champ, and they're doing their best to make this guy a star. I have no problem with them building him up, besides, we do need more stars in the sport, so WE (hardcore fans) wont clamor and demand "big" fights, that the general public has no idea about.

I hate to say this, but it's true...the general public has more say-so than us hardcore fans. Casual fans bring in these big numbers (translation: money) to the sport. A lot of us here, will bark about refusing to pay for a PPV (depending on the fight), but if the general public is interested and buys into it, then that's a victory for the sport (translation: more money and exposure).

I'm not big on letting fights marinate, but let's be real here...who has more star power potential...Garcia or Matthysse? Imagine if this "big fight" between them happens, and Danny loses...does that always equate to Matthysse being the next star in boxing. Think of it this way...promoters would much rather have another star in boxing, than to please us hardcore fans. As we all know, you cant please everyone.

So this time and money that they're putting into Danny, will surely go to waste if Matthysse beats him. Who in the world knows who Matthysse is? Hell, people hardly know who Garcia is, but they're building him up to be known by the general public....that's why he's fighting the likes of Morales and Judah (possibly again).

Anyone remember when Shane beat Oscar? What happened afterwards? Did he become this huge star just because he beat an established star in the sport? Nope. Instead, he went on take the hard fights that "fans" (fantasy fight lovers) wanted to see...and we all know what happened there. He missed out on a huge payday against Trinidad, JUST to lose to Wright, which he didn't have to fight at the time.

So trying to prove to the people that you're the "best, isn't always good for your pockets...hence why he's whoring for big paydays, and getting whooped up for small paydays. Imagine if he'd taken that fight with Trinidad for what I believe was a nice $10M, which took place after the Oscar rematch. He surely wouldn't be taking the route that he's taking nowadays.

Anyhow, the same goes for Danny. I believe he should take as many semi-easy paydays as possible...wouldn't you? They tried to feed him to Khan, in all hopes that he'd lose, and we saw what happened there. At this point, I believe that guys just wanna see Danny lose, but they mask it as, "the best should fight the best". To me, Matthysse is just a flash in the pan, not to take everything away from him, but guys like him, end up becoming an opponent after a while.

So Danny asking for $5M isn't...well, it does seem that he's pricing himself out a bit. I believe that he's asking for that much, because he could be making around 2M (or more) to fight old fading fighters who will build his name up. Let's be honest, right now, which fight would sell more tickets...a Judah rematch in Brooklyn, or a Matthysse fight in Vegas or California? My money is on the initial...the old legend who gave Danny problems late, plus the build-up was genuinely heated and damn near epic (in a sense).

I wouldn't be so quick to throw the "D" word (duck) around. We could easily be watching Danny fight either older legends, or sub par opponents for millions of dollars. As for the testing, shiiiit...get him tested. You know it goes in boxing...if a guy looks too good, then "something must be up". Trust me, when a fighter suddenly looks good, or an old legend seems to have gotten his step back...I ALWAYS wait for the post-fight drug tests, before I get excited.


very good points and an honest look at the whole situation. it appears to me that they are trying to tap into the puerto rican fan base which has no star at the moment. danny has the potential to be that. make no mistake about it, matthysse is legit and he is a serious threat. danny asking for 5mil is accurate for a difficult task like that imo. what they should do is throw garcia and matthysse on the undercard (in separate bouts) of floyd/canelo to get them the proper exposure they need. this fight will be huge if they play their cards right. i see no need in rematching zab though. he won that fight convincingly and it's a dangerous rematch that i don't believe zab deserves.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 26 2013, 08:01 PM) *
I know that Chi and Professor hate the term duck, but this is what Garcia is doing. If Zab taxes Danny ass in the second fight then his stock is going down. 5 million? Are you fucking serious? Garcia is showing his true colors. Matthysse is in this kid's head. I guess whenever Danny sees a threat he will run and fight the guys he has already beating. Damn shame.


i think danny is playing his cards right. u have to know that the final decision is not his alone. al haymon and his pops are the final decision makers.
daprofessor
QUOTE (jtiizzle @ Jun 26 2013, 08:25 PM) *
I don't think it's a duck i hear that lucas is not agreeing to random blood and urine thats why the fight isn't happening. Anyways i would pick danny to win , another thing hey both are haymon fighters so that means haymon takes a L with whoever loses it's common sense i'm not suprised


do u have a source for this? did they test for peterson/matthysse?
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 27 2013, 03:14 PM) *
do u have a source for this? did they test for peterson/matthysse?

Just the regular testing, which is usually a joke.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 26 2013, 08:31 PM) *
Haymon wins more if both don't fight each other and keep winning.

Did he ask for random testing his last fight? I think he did do testing but I don't remember if it was random. But you don't think the 5 million (if its true) is the Garcia camps way of pricing themselves out?


i don't. that's knowing your worth imo. they are #1 and #2 at 140...but matthysse should have the ibf title. jmm has the wbo. danny is taking the biggest risk here. he'll be giving up the ring, wbc and wba titles if he loses. he needs to be rewarded for that risk.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Junior80 @ Jun 26 2013, 08:51 PM) *
The look in Danny's face at the conclusion of the Peterson fight said it all.....I got the feeling right there and then that he didn't want to fight Matthysse


he and a whole bunch of other ppl got it wrong. they all thought matthysse would lose. he had a look like, shit just got real. i didn't see the fear that everyone is talking about.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 27 2013, 01:41 AM) *
Just a curious question, has anyone ever even gotten paid 5 mill for a non ppv fight??


that's what this fight is going to end up being...ppv. i'm not saying it should be...but for the war it's going to be...they deserve to be paid right. corrales/castillo 1 was not ppv. everyone knew that would be a war...it was. neither guy was ever the same. the rematch was ppv. they still didn't get paid properly. margarito/cotto was ppv. both guys came out diminished in that fight and neither was ever the same imo. they should have been paid well.

berto has made some handsome pay days for non ppv fights...but never 5 mil.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 27 2013, 01:42 PM) *
Matthysse is a one hit wonder! One shot is all it takes. He is an exciting fighter... Kinda like Pacquiao. People love nasty ass knockouts and Lucas provides that. Now is he a great technician? Not really, but he has solid hands. People love that. Danny wants to have a long career and do I blame him for wanting to put old legends on hid resume? No, but it makes his look suspect. 140 is an explosive division, he can't keep fighting old warriors, eventually Danny boy will have to get inside the ring a live wire. beating Matthysee could better his chances in the Mayweather lotto. Danny is really hurting himself and his record. People can go back and nip pick and say he has only fought older guys. Here is a chance for him to step into the lime light of boxing and stop the Machine. It is his career, however, fighting Zab is not an easy rematch, hardly. Zab has tasted his power and survived, Swift better be careful. Hell maybe this can be an undercard for The One... I really hate that title

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having old legends on you resume, because truthfully, most of these new age fighters are lacking that. Not to mention that some of these old legends are hard to kill (Morales, Judah, Mosley, Hopkins)...just when you think they're taking their last stand, they end up proving that they still have some fight in them.

I agree that he's going to need to fight a live wire soon, but again, his live wire was Khan last July, and he passed that test, hence why he's the champ of the division, and guys are now looking to him for a fight and a decent payday. At this point, I think he's earned his shot at maximizing his paydays in the division...that's if he stays there long enough. The good news is, guys who dont fight each other at 140, can always fight that person at WW, since most of them are young and still growing.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Jun 27 2013, 05:37 AM) *
Umm what happend to the supposed Jr.Welterweight tournament finale??? Danny only been on the scene for a year, and with all do respect to the two future HOF'ers he beat, he thinks those fights along with the khan fight puts him up there with JMM or Cotto's numbers? Gtfoh!!! U tellin me he's more interested in building his brand, by chasing a rematch with yet another "past his prime HOF'er" because again, he didn't look all that convincing the first time out. He'd rather that than face Matthysse, a guy who could put him in position to seeing those kind of figures quicker than a Zab Judah rematch could, assuming he wins and keeps winning?? Gtfoh!!!


what you are saying can all be viewed as truth...but let's be honest, it's a fans perspective. for starters, that tournament was bullshit to begin with. how and why should danny have to fight the tougher fights when he already ko'd khan. why does khan get the winner in the end? what did he do to get that? i thought it was bullshit from the beginning and that was oscar blowing smoke up amirs ass. make no mistake about it...promoters/managers/trainers have a vested interest in their fighters. the fighters don't make these decisions alone. it's the reason they sign contracts. al is not going to let this fight happen now. if he does, he's flushing money down the drain. it's similar to gamboa/juanma. as a fan...it pissed me off that fight didn't happen. as someone who has spent plenty of time training and developing fighters....i totally get why it didn't happen. it's all a gamble. you have to make educated decisions. unfortunately, they don't always get them right. in this situation, i hope they get it right because if and when that fight happens and they can both stay on their paths....it's going to be huge.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 27 2013, 02:07 PM) *
Since when is danny the end all be all as well? The guy is acting like he runs this shit. A lot of his fights are becoming suspect, taking these BS rematches and padding his record is exactly what is wrong with boxing, fuck his "star power" his marketability and that shit. Matthysse has done good numbers on showtime and people love watching him no matter who thinks he's just a brawler. And he has done more than enlighten to get a shot at this kid that thinks he's number one but keeps taking old ass fighters instead of showing people he is the real deal. If the testing is the only reason for this fight not being made then yes its on Lucas but rumor is this cat is pricing himself out, motherfucker sounds like Andre berto 2.0 now! No way does this kid deserve that much money for any fight right now


danny has two straps and a win over a guy that matthysse loss to. he's the only guy at 140 holding two pieces of the puzzle. i'm not sure why peterson/matthyses wasn't for the ibf strap...but matthysse should have that now. it's a bargaining chip. at this point...all i know is what i've heard here. i don't know that danny is asking for 5 mil and i don't know that lucas is refusing testing. those can both just be rumors. until i hear it from either guys mouth, i'll treat it as such and speculate in the meantime.
Cshel86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 27 2013, 03:07 PM) *
Since when is danny the end all be all as well? The guy is acting like he runs this shit. A lot of his fights are becoming suspect, taking these BS rematches and padding his record is exactly what is wrong with boxing, fuck his "star power" his marketability and that shit. Matthysse has done good numbers on showtime and people love watching him no matter who thinks he's just a brawler. And he has done more than enlighten to get a shot at this kid that thinks he's number one but keeps taking old ass fighters instead of showing people he is the real deal. If the testing is the only reason for this fight not being made then yes its on Lucas but rumor is this cat is pricing himself out, motherfucker sounds like Andre berto 2.0 now! No way does this kid deserve that much money for any fight right now

The end all be all, is usually the guy with all the belts...or at least the guy whose going to get you a decent payday. I cant name a fighter who is making big paydays off of Matthysse, so again, he isn't the end all be all at 140. That's like guys were saying that Maidana was the man to get through at 140, true, but Maidana was and still is taking chump change for fights. he was just a hard guy to beat...nothing more, nothing less...Matthysse's in the same boat.

What card has Matthysse headlined on Showtime, that even shows that he did good numbers? If he did happen to do good numbers, it was because he was the co-feature on the card, not the headliner. I dont remember Matthysse/Ajose doing tv numbers like that, and from what I checking out, the gate didn't do that great either. I've been inside the Hard Rock where they fought, and trust me, it isn't big at all, and Im sure those seats were no more than $60 on the high end.

Hell, Danny JUST started selling tickets, not too long ago. He and Khan's gate was terrible last July. Now, the gate and numbers that he's been doing at the Barclay's as the headliner, have been pretty good. Why? It damn sure wasn't because of Matthysse.

At this point, Danny's fighting the fights that truly matter. I think it's because of the titles that he holds, that people are rushing these fights. Hell, Matthysse can't even get a real title at full title at 140, so what makes him think he's going to get a fight to possibly hold all of them?

Matthysse is good fighter, but let's just be real here...they aren't building this dude up to be a champion. One would wonder why he couldn't even get the title off of Lamont, and he knocked him out. Before they even signed, he knew that wasn't a title fight. Does anybody wonder why that didn't happen? Hello...they can still go back and make Peterson/Judah on the east coast and rack up money. Notice how "Matthysse" and money, tickets, sales, titles, etc., cant even be put in the same sentence and make sense.

I agree with him not deserving $5M, that's waaay too steep. Again, here comes the business part. If he's asking for $5M right now, then chances are, the fight wont happen. The good thing is, the promoters and managers will put more effort into building up the two of them, which includes having both of them in more noteworthy fights (maybe two a piece), promote the hell outta those fights, and make their big fight worth $5M. Nobody at 140 is worth $5M, combined or alone. While those fights are being built, more star power will be brought to the division, and guys will get more exposure and paydays, so the division can live on.

Think about it, what if Danny loses his next fight to whoever? You think they're going to put him in there with Matthysse still? Nope. They'll get Danny a couple of confidence building fights, then Matthysse will get Danny at his new stage, not while he's the unified champ with everything to lose, and nothing to gain by beating Matthysse. That's just like Manny and Floyd fighting now. No way in hell Bob was gonna let that happen when Many was on top of the world. Now that he's been humbled a bit, the people will still get what they want, and one of the two parties wont have as much power to fuck up all the negotiations over little stuff.

This Garcia/Matthysse fight will happen, but Im not so sure it happens THIS soon...regardless of what Shaefer is spewing to the public. As far as Im concerned, GBP making Mayweather/Canelo happen, will surely take the edge off of any "mishaps" about the Garcia/Matthysse fight not happening. Right now, the "general public" is getting what they want in Mayweather/Canelo, so no need for Garcia/Matthysse to lose any steam or light, because of it. Wait til the fans calm down after Canelo/Mayweather, then they can make that fight happen.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 27 2013, 03:10 PM) *
very good points and an honest look at the whole situation. it appears to me that they are trying to tap into the puerto rican fan base which has no star at the moment. danny has the potential to be that. make no mistake about it, matthysse is legit and he is a serious threat. danny asking for 5mil is accurate for a difficult task like that imo. what they should do is throw garcia and matthysse on the undercard (in separate bouts) of floyd/canelo to get them the proper exposure they need. this fight will be huge if they play their cards right. i see no need in rematching zab though. he won that fight convincingly and it's a dangerous rematch that i don't believe zab deserves.

I didn't even think of them putting Danny and Lucas in two separate bouts on the undercard of Mayweather/Canelo. Well shit, that would just be a damn triple-header, with the possibility of somebody getting paid nothing.

I HATE business...most of the time, it gets in the way of good fights happening. Lol. That would be a good idea...OR, GBP could schedule a doubleheader with Garcia and Matthysse fighting separate opponents, the week after the PPV with Floyd/Canelo, since most will tune in to see the free replay.

That's one thing about Floyd's PPVs, dude is always guaranteed to make a metric fuck-ton of money, which leaves most of the guys on the undercard, fighting for scraps. Smh
daprofessor
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 27 2013, 02:54 PM) *
I didn't even think of them putting Danny and Lucas in two separate bouts on the undercard of Mayweather/Canelo. Well shit, that would just be a damn triple-header, with the possibility of somebody getting paid nothing.

I HATE business...most of the time, it gets in the way of good fights happening. Lol. That would be a good idea...OR, GBP could schedule a doubleheader with Garcia and Matthysse fighting separate opponents, the week after the PPV with Floyd/Canelo, since most will tune in to see the free replay.

That's one thing about Floyd's PPVs, dude is always guaranteed to make a metric fuck-ton of money, which leaves most of the guys on the undercard, fighting for scraps. Smh



exactly. that makes the most sense because honestly...there won't be any real money for the undercard fighters.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 27 2013, 03:22 PM) *
he and a whole bunch of other ppl got it wrong. they all thought matthysse would lose. he had a look like, shit just got real. i didn't see the fear that everyone is talking about.

Like I said he said it himself he would rather fight lamont and he thought lamont would win.

checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 27 2013, 03:22 PM) *
he and a whole bunch of other ppl got it wrong. they all thought matthysse would lose. he had a look like, shit just got real. i didn't see the fear that everyone is talking about.

Like I said he said it himself he would rather fight lamont and he thought lamont would win.

checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 27 2013, 03:44 PM) *
danny has two straps and a win over a guy that matthysse loss to. he's the only guy at 140 holding two pieces of the puzzle. i'm not sure why peterson/matthyses wasn't for the ibf strap...but matthysse should have that now. it's a bargaining chip. at this point...all i know is what i've heard here. i don't know that danny is asking for 5 mil and i don't know that lucas is refusing testing. those can both just be rumors. until i hear it from either guys mouth, i'll treat it as such and speculate in the meantime.

The reason they didn't fight for both belts was because the two separate bodies said they wouldn't sanction a unification so they made the stupid catchweight so both fighters could keep their belts instead of being stripped ala Andre ward.

It sounds/looks like the Garcia camp is getting cold feet, I mean I don't blame them. I thought Garcia had a good chance of beating Lucas but I guess Garcia knows himself better than I do. A zab fight is shit, he has been giving more undeserving people title shots to keep himself spotless so Idk it just sounds like he's avoiding him. If he isn't gonna fight Lucas he may as well move up because there really isn't much left at 140 with lamont and khan saying they will move up
Gambit808
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 27 2013, 03:38 PM) *
what you are saying can all be viewed as truth...but let's be honest, it's a fans perspective. for starters, that tournament was bullshit to begin with. how and why should danny have to fight the tougher fights when he already ko'd khan. why does khan get the winner in the end? what did he do to get that? i thought it was bullshit from the beginning and that was oscar blowing smoke up amirs ass. make no mistake about it...promoters/managers/trainers have a vested interest in their fighters. the fighters don't make these decisions alone. it's the reason they sign contracts. al is not going to let this fight happen now. if he does, he's flushing money down the drain. it's similar to gamboa/juanma. as a fan...it pissed me off that fight didn't happen. as someone who has spent plenty of time training and developing fighters....i totally get why it didn't happen. it's all a gamble. you have to make educated decisions. unfortunately, they don't always get them right. in this situation, i hope they get it right because if and when that fight happens and they can both stay on their paths....it's going to be huge.

I always thought Amir Khan being put on a pedestal was stupid to begin with. After his fight with Molina, I became even more convinced of that notion. I understand the business side of it as well, but often I fight with the fan side of me and ask why not? Why not have these guys fight each other? Both are at a point where it's a 50/50 with what fans think would be the outcome making it that much more anticipated. Instead these promoters/mangers/trainers want to sit on shit until like u said a Gamboa/JuanMa happens or even a Mayweather/Pacquiao. Just let the fighters fight. It can be the best thing to happen to either winner or loser by fighting a legitimate threat. As they say a fight of this magnitude generally has no losers. It seems like fighters of this era put money over glory and this fight not happening now, will furthermore help me understand the difference between old school and new school SMH.
checkleft
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Jun 27 2013, 06:45 PM) *
I always thought Amir Khan being put on a pedestal was stupid to begin with. After his fight with Molina, I became even more convinced of that notion. I understand the business side of it as well, but often I fight with the fan side of me and ask why not? Why not have these guys fight each other? Both are at a point where it's a 50/50 with what fans think would be the outcome making it that much more anticipated. Instead these promoters/mangers/trainers want to sit on shit until like u said a Gamboa/JuanMa happens or even a Mayweather/Pacquiao. Just let the fighters fight. It can be the best thing to happen to either winner or loser by fighting a legitimate threat. As they say a fight of this magnitude generally has no losers. It seems like fighters of this era put money over glory and this fight not happening now, will furthermore help me understand the difference between old school and new school SMH.

Very good post
mgrover
When has it become the norm to give fighters a pass on who they fight because they want to maximize there earnings? If you ain't good enough to hold that belt against top fighters and make money then your in the wrong sport I think.

Yeah it's a business, but it seems that boxing being a business is just another excuse to duck fighters...
daprofessor
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Jun 27 2013, 05:45 PM) *
I always thought Amir Khan being put on a pedestal was stupid to begin with. After his fight with Molina, I became even more convinced of that notion. I understand the business side of it as well, but often I fight with the fan side of me and ask why not? Why not have these guys fight each other? Both are at a point where it's a 50/50 with what fans think would be the outcome making it that much more anticipated. Instead these promoters/mangers/trainers want to sit on shit until like u said a Gamboa/JuanMa happens or even a Mayweather/Pacquiao. Just let the fighters fight. It can be the best thing to happen to either winner or loser by fighting a legitimate threat. As they say a fight of this magnitude generally has no losers. It seems like fighters of this era put money over glory and this fight not happening now, will furthermore help me understand the difference between old school and new school SMH.


to the fans...yes. to the fighters...no.

listen, this is going to be a war. neither guy is going to come out of this the same. how is that not registering with people? they are both going to shorten their careers. shorter careers = shorter dollars. these guys don't have anything else. i agree...these guys aren't the same as the guys from past eras. they're more educated and understand the business side much more these days. they know about the iran barkleys, the bobby chacons and the leon spinks of the world who once had glory and are now dead broke and homeless in the streets. maximizing their money for the short careers that they have is not a crime. i've been a student of the game for decades. i love seeing these guys climb the ranks and seek glory. i'm patient.
checkleft
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jun 27 2013, 07:47 PM) *
When has it become the norm to give fighters a pass on who they fight because they want to maximize there earnings? If you ain't good enough to hold that belt against top fighters and make money then your in the wrong sport I think.

Yeah it's a business, but it seems that boxing being a business is just another excuse to duck fighters...

+1
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jun 27 2013, 06:47 PM) *
When has it become the norm to give fighters a pass on who they fight because they want to maximize there earnings? If you ain't good enough to hold that belt against top fighters and make money then your in the wrong sport I think.

Yeah it's a business, but it seems that boxing being a business is just another excuse to duck fighters...


is it ducking if they fight one fight from now? two fights from now? how about 3? nothing wrong with gaining momentum and building up the fight to get these guys paid in my book. they're both under the same guy...that guy isn't bob arum...it's al haymon. it's going to happen.

also...i will say, i think they're going to let the fight happen after mayweather/canelo. if they do it before they're going to kill the build up.
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jun 27 2013, 07:47 PM) *
When has it become the norm to give fighters a pass on who they fight because they want to maximize there earnings? If you ain't good enough to hold that belt against top fighters and make money then your in the wrong sport I think.

Yeah it's a business, but it seems that boxing being a business is just another excuse to duck fighters...

You answered your own questions here, MG. Lol

QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 27 2013, 10:10 PM) *
to the fans...yes. to the fighters...no.

listen, this is going to be a war. neither guy is going to come out of this the same. how is that not registering with people? they are both going to shorten their careers. shorter careers = shorter dollars. these guys don't have anything else. i agree...these guys aren't the same as the guys from past eras. they're more educated and understand the business side much more these days. they know about the iran barkleys, the bobby chacons and the leon spinks of the world who once had glory and are now dead broke and homeless in the streets. maximizing their money for the short careers that they have is not a crime. i've been a student of the game for decades. i love seeing these guys climb the ranks and seek glory. i'm patient.

Thank you! Those guys that fought back in the day, were FIGHTERS, and fighters only. Hence why they fought damn near 2-3 times a month....that was their only stream of revenue. Those Haymon paydays were nonexistent back then. There were no million dollar paydays to fight no-hopers, and there surely weren't a million fuckin' titles per division.

Matthysse doesn't even have a title. Does an interim title even count as a full title? Damn, that question sounded dumb as I posted it, lol. I thought a title was a title, but nowadays, we have silver, diamond, gold, interim, super, and all of those other type of champions. It's sad that's there's one title, like the WBA for instance, but there are 4 or 5 branches to it.

Guys are pouting about fighters ducking other fighters, but the new "championship" system has enabled such things to happen. How dumb does that sound though...Danny Garcia fights Matthysse for his interim WBC title. Then Danny wins, just to seek...the full WBC champ?
MAHDI
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jun 27 2013, 10:49 PM) *
is it ducking if they fight one fight from now? two fights from now? how about 3? nothing wrong with gaining momentum and building up the fight to get these guys paid in my book. they're both under the same guy...that guy isn't bob arum...it's al haymon. it's going to happen.

also...i will say, i think they're going to let the fight happen after mayweather/canelo. if they do it before they're going to kill the build up.




I agree with your above assessment. Garcia has more tools than Matthyse skill wise and I don't think he fears him at all. People acting like Matthyse is CLUBBER LANG.. for crying out loud he had a great night with his blitzkrieg of Peterson but damned the guy lost to the man Garcia is choosing to fight a second time I am sure for more money than matthyse brings to the table at this point. Matthyse better get back to fighting and realizing he does not have a big enough fan base to call shots in negotiations with anyone.
Cshel86
These Matthysse hopefuls are killing me here. Danny's not the most exciting person outside of the ring, but hell, at least he has Angel there to get under the public's skin (translation: promote the fight). I'm sure the public wouldn't mind Danny being the champ and in the spotlight, especially if they have somebody (Angel) to hate (which translates into views and ticket sells).

Sorry guys, but Matthysse is gonna be put on the back burner for a while, and I'd be surprised if they even made the fight. I mean really, who wants to see Matthysse as the unified champ, just to sit around and listen to interpreters translate what he says the whole time? That's extremely boring...seriously. I mean Danny could have more fans if he spoke Spanish, so why do you think people are going to be clamoring to hear from a guy who doesn't even speak English?

Canelo is fortunate, because he has the right people behind him and he's attempting to learn English (for more exposure)...cant say the same for Matthysse. It's hard to believe that some of these Matthysse fans are true boxing fans. True boxing fans take the good with the bad, and already know up front, how the business works. No need to sit around and pout about this fight not happening, then reduce to saying that a guy is ducking another...you'll ultimately sound like a casual fan.

I mean sheesh, these Matthysse hopefuls are almost on the radar with those Pacquiao fans back in the day. "Well Manny offered Floyd this, and Manny agreed to take the smaller split of the money, blah blah blah". All of that pouting, just for them to continually fail at realizing that Manny had NO say-so on whether that fight was going to happen, let alone, any say-so over his career.

Sorry, but Matthysse is in the same bout. He'll probably be stuck fighting leftovers and guys that may pose a slight threat to him, but that's about it...at least for a little while. Again, you cant be a real boxing fan, but get mad and say that a guy ducking another, when business is always first on the agenda. How many big fights have we (as real boxing fans) gotten at the times that we THOUGHT was the perfect time? Not many...

Sheesh, I'm starting to get upset with promoters for even giving us the fights that we've been asking for as of late. I mean we did get Chavez/Martinez, Rigo/Donaire, Canelo/Trout, and few others...and some of yall STILL aren't happy? Boxing "fans" are so fickle and never satisfied, hence why promoters just shove any old fight down our throats, and could care less how we feel about them.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 28 2013, 07:15 AM) *
These Matthysse hopefuls are killing me here. Danny's not the most exciting person outside of the ring, but hell, at least he has Angel there to get under the public's skin (translation: promote the fight). I'm sure the public wouldn't mind Danny being the champ and in the spotlight, especially if they have somebody (Angel) to hate (which translates into views and ticket sells).

Sorry guys, but Matthysse is gonna be put on the back burner for a while, and I'd be surprised if they even made the fight. I mean really, who wants to see Matthysse as the unified champ, just to sit around and listen to interpreters translate what he says the whole time? That's extremely boring...seriously. I mean Danny could have more fans if he spoke Spanish, so why do you think people are going to be clamoring to hear from a guy who doesn't even speak English?

Canelo is fortunate, because he has the right people behind him and he's attempting to learn English (for more exposure)...cant say the same for Matthysse. It's hard to believe that some of these Matthysse fans are true boxing fans. True boxing fans take the good with the bad, and already know up front, how the business works. No need to sit around and pout about this fight not happening, then reduce to saying that a guy is ducking another...you'll ultimately sound like a casual fan.

I mean sheesh, these Matthysse hopefuls are almost on the radar with those Pacquiao fans back in the day. "Well Manny offered Floyd this, and Manny agreed to take the smaller split of the money, blah blah blah". All of that pouting, just for them to continually fail at realizing that Manny had NO say-so on whether that fight was going to happen, let alone, any say-so over his career.

Sorry, but Matthysse is in the same bout. He'll probably be stuck fighting leftovers and guys that may pose a slight threat to him, but that's about it...at least for a little while. Again, you cant be a real boxing fan, but get mad and say that a guy ducking another, when business is always first on the agenda. How many big fights have we (as real boxing fans) gotten at the times that we THOUGHT was the perfect time? Not many...

Sheesh, I'm starting to get upset with promoters for even giving us the fights that we've been asking for as of late. I mean we did get Chavez/Martinez, Rigo/Donaire, Canelo/Trout, and few others...and some of yall STILL aren't happy? Boxing "fans" are so fickle and never satisfied, hence why promoters just shove any old fight down our throats, and could care less how we feel about them.

He does have a great team behind him, all of Golden Boy, however, Saul still has to collect those Ws, my question is, if he loses his fight against Mayweather and a few others then what? Lucas has already lost (off of bullshit decisions) but people still pay to see the Machine because the dude is exciting and he worked his way to that position. Danny doesn't have the fan base or the push that Saul has. He needs a career defining fight, fighting Zab does nothing for his resume, fighting Maidana or Matthysee will get his weight up. He could even land a Broner match and that would be BIG! Matthysee maybe a victim of his own success because of his fighting style. Why put Danny in the ring with him now? Like you said you can build up both fighters and then make a "super" bout. My questions is who gets in the ring with Lucas and Danny if they do not fight each other?

Boxing fans are never satisfied. I am happy about matches that we had this year. This has been an incredible year for boxing and we are not even half way done with the year. I am pleased! Now if Golden Boy and Top Rank could just work together than he would be fire works month after month. Imagine Rios vs. Danny Garcia or Matthysee! OMG!
KOpower
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Garcia ducks Lucas. Garcia would get crushed if the fight happened. Even his father knows it. Why not duck a man you can't beat? Fight Zab in a rematch and pray that it somehow leads to a payday with Mayweather. Sounds about right to me.
checkleft
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 28 2013, 10:51 AM) *
He does have a great team behind him, all of Golden Boy, however, Saul still has to collect those Ws, my question is, if he loses his fight against Mayweather and a few others then what? Lucas has already lost (off of bullshit decisions) but people still pay to see the Machine because the dude is exciting and he worked his way to that position. Danny doesn't have the fan base or the push that Saul has. He needs a career defining fight, fighting Zab does nothing for his resume, fighting Maidana or Matthysee will get his weight up. He could even land a Broner match and that would be BIG! Matthysee maybe a victim of his own success because of his fighting style. Why put Danny in the ring with him now? Like you said you can build up both fighters and then make a "super" bout. My questions is who gets in the ring with Lucas and Danny if they do not fight each other?

Boxing fans are never satisfied. I am happy about matches that we had this year. This has been an in creditable year for boxing and we are not even half way done with the year. I am pleased! Now if Golden Boy and Top Rank could just work together than he would be fire works month after month. Imagine Rios vs. Danny Garcia or Matthysee! OMG!

+1

And I don't get this whole Lucas "hopefulls" gag. This fight is a toss up to me and I'm a big fan of both guys (not so much of Danny right now). I'm hearing a lot of excuses being made for Danny but BOTH guys don't have the name individually to he asking for that kind of money. Danny can't headline either, the only reason his shows have had better attendance is because he is at the barclays with nothing but double or triple headers featuring Brooklyn fighters. But if they fight each other, make a good show then at least one will get more recognition.

All these excuses being made yea they may sound nice and shit but does it make it right.. this kids getting pac treatment, this is his second series with someone he already beat clearly, and it ain't even a top guy at 140. Shit maybe he will have a trilogy with Nate Campbell next.

At least when khan had the belt dude fought almost anyone
Dolimite
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 28 2013, 07:07 AM) *
+1

And I don't get this whole Lucas "hopefulls" gag. This fight is a toss up to me and I'm a big fan of both guys (not so much of Danny right now). I'm hearing a lot of excuses being made for Danny but BOTH guys don't have the name individually to he asking for that kind of money. Danny can't headline either, the only reason his shows have had better attendance is because he is at the barclays with nothing but double or triple headers featuring Brooklyn fighters. But if they fight each other, make a good show then at least one will get more recognition.

All these excuses being made yea they may sound nice and shit but does it make it right.. this kids getting pac treatment, this is his second series with someone he already beat clearly, and it ain't even a top guy at 140. Shit maybe he will have a trilogy with Nate Campbell next.

At least when khan had the belt dude fought almost anyone


What the fuck has Danny done to even ask for that kind of money?
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 28 2013, 10:51 AM) *
He does have a great team behind him, all of Golden Boy, however, Saul still has to collect those Ws, my question is, if he loses his fight against Mayweather and a few others then what? Lucas has already lost (off of bullshit decisions) but people still pay to see the Machine because the dude is exciting and he worked his way to that position. Danny doesn't have the fan base or the push that Saul has. He needs a career defining fight, fighting Zab does nothing for his resume, fighting Maidana or Matthysee will get his weight up. He could even land a Broner match and that would be BIG! Matthysee maybe a victim of his own success because of his fighting style. Why put Danny in the ring with him now? Like you said you can build up both fighters and then make a "super" bout. My questions is who gets in the ring with Lucas and Danny if they do not fight each other?

Boxing fans are never satisfied. I am happy about matches that we had this year. This has been an incredible year for boxing and we are not even half way done with the year. I am pleased! Now if Golden Boy and Top Rank could just work together than he would be fire works month after month. Imagine Rios vs. Danny Garcia or Matthysee! OMG!

No matter how many fights Canelo loses, his support from GBP will keep him afloat. Once you have it in the general public's minds that you're a star, that wont ever go away...especially if you're a Mexican fighter. Lucas got outpointed by a fading Zab, and couldn't manage to get Devon outta there. Im sure everyone remembers how bad Devon looked in his last few fights at 140...the Kotelnik fight told it all.

How many people PAY to see Matthysse? Again, go look up his gate and stop posting stuff that's gonna get you a +1. For Christ's sake, Danny and Khan had a terrible gate in Vegas, so how in the world does a relatively unknown Matthysse even match that gate? He's fought at the Hard Rock as a headliner a couple of times, and couldn't sell that small room out, let alone, bring in views for Showtime. Anytime he did any decent views, was when he was the cofeature, NOT the headliner. So again, how many people are truly "paying" to see him fight?

They are WORKING on Danny's fan base, and I'm almost certain that it wont surpass Canelo's...we can all bet on that. How does fighting Zab, do nothing for his resume? So it's a good name on Matthysse's resume, but it's not good enough for Danny? C'mon now. I'll even pose the question as to how many tickets Judah/Matthysse sold, in comparison to Judah/Garcia. I'll wait...

They BOTH needed Zab. Garcia/Judah had a NASTY build-up and it even got postponed, which gave them more time to promote it. When Zab was getting ready to fight Lucas, where the build-up in that? Oh that's right...it was the quiet dangerous dude vs the fading legend who sometimes pulls the trigger and surprises us all...veeeery interesting. rolleyes_anim.gif

Maidana is no longer that dude to help fighters "get their weight up" so to speak. When he was a flat-footed punching machine, it was cool, but he appears to be more a threat than he was back then...nobody's gonna really clamor to fight him with the skill that he's been showing as of late. Back then, at least you could look good by hitting him with everything (because he was always there), until he hit you back.

GBP may make it "appear" as if all of these matches are "easy" to make, but at some point, they're gonna really slow down and go back to what makes sense (translation: what makes more money). Just because these matchups seem like big fights to us, doesn't always equate to "big fights" (translation: "big money") to them. Think about it, they have all the stars, why blow their load early on? Some of these guys need to stay fresh while these fights build up to their potential.
checkleft
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 28 2013, 11:31 AM) *
What the fuck has Danny done to even ask for that kind of money?

I'm sayin lol
Cshel86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 28 2013, 11:07 AM) *
+1

And I don't get this whole Lucas "hopefulls" gag. This fight is a toss up to me and I'm a big fan of both guys (not so much of Danny right now). I'm hearing a lot of excuses being made for Danny but BOTH guys don't have the name individually to he asking for that kind of money. Danny can't headline either, the only reason his shows have had better attendance is because he is at the barclays with nothing but double or triple headers featuring Brooklyn fighters. But if they fight each other, make a good show then at least one will get more recognition.

All these excuses being made yea they may sound nice and shit but does it make it right.. this kids getting pac treatment, this is his second series with someone he already beat clearly, and it ain't even a top guy at 140. Shit maybe he will have a trilogy with Nate Campbell next.

At least when khan had the belt dude fought almost anyone

Nobody's making excuses for Danny, we're just putting the business part out there, so guys wont be up in arms, if it doesn't happen soon. Sheesh, Shaefer gives you guys a potential date and the promise that it's "almost" done (like he always does), and yall get impatient at the first peep of Danny fighting somebody else.

It's funny how you down Danny for not being able to "headline", but if they stacked Matthysse's card like that, there would be no problem. Hell, some of yall are giving Lucas credit for views that he didn't pull, because as I mentioned earlier, he was the co-feature on those cards. That's what I'm saying, some of yall are making it seem as if the same things that were for Lucas (or got him to where he is), isn't good for Danny.

If Lucas and Danny fight each other, then Danny will be the one that they're pushing. The first Morales fight was in Texas, which I'm sure sold some decent tickets. The rematch had to be worth watching, that's where the whole Barclay's stuff came from. Notice, most of the main fighters on that card, were northerners. They had to PUSH it...something they're doing a terrible with, in Matthysse.

How is he NOT the top guy at 140? He is the unified champ, right? I guess you have to be an unknown, knockout machine with an interim title, to be considered the top guy at 140, huh?
checkleft
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 28 2013, 11:54 AM) *
No matter how many fights Canelo loses, his support from GBP will keep him afloat. Once you have it in the general public's minds that you're a star, that wont ever go away...especially if you're a Mexican fighter. Lucas got outpointed by a fading Zab, and couldn't manage to get Devon outta there. Im sure everyone remembers how bad Devon looked in his last few fights at 140...the Kotelnik fight told it all.

How many people PAY to see Matthysse? Again, go look up his gate and stop posting stuff that's gonna get you a +1. For Christ's sake, Danny and Khan had a terrible gate in Vegas, so how in the world does a relatively unknown Matthysse even match that gate? He's fought at the Hard Rock as a headliner a couple of times, and couldn't sell that small room out, let alone, bring in views for Showtime. Anytime he did any decent views, was when he was the cofeature, NOT the headliner. So again, how many people are truly "paying" to see him fight?

They are WORKING on Danny's fan base, and I'm almost certain that it wont surpass Canelo's...we can all bet on that. How does fighting Zab, do nothing for his resume? So it's a good name on Matthysse's resume, but it's not good enough for Danny? C'mon now. I'll even pose the question as to how many tickets Judah/Matthysse sold, in comparison to Judah/Garcia. I'll wait...

They BOTH needed Zab. Garcia/Judah had a NASTY build-up and it even got postponed, which gave them more time to promote it. When Zab was getting ready to fight Lucas, where the build-up in that? Oh that's right...it was the quiet dangerous dude vs the fading legend who sometimes pulls the trigger and surprises us all...veeeery interesting. rolleyes_anim.gif

Maidana is no longer that dude to help fighters "get their weight up" so to speak. When he was a flat-footed punching machine, it was cool, but he appears to be more a threat than he was back then...nobody's gonna really clamor to fight him with the skill that he's been showing as of late. Back then, at least you could look good by hitting him with everything (because he was always there), until he hit you back.

GBP may make it "appear" as if all of these matches are "easy" to make, but at some point, they're gonna really slow down and go back to what makes sense (translation: what makes more money). Just because these matchups seem like big fights to us, doesn't always equate to "big fights" (translation: "big money") to them. Think about it, they have all the stars, why blow their load early on? Some of these guys need to stay fresh while these fights build up to their potential.

Bro I don't think anyone argued that zab did nothing for his resume, I think we are all arguing he does nothing for his resume twice, especially after he beat him soundly once in a fight that wasn't even entertaining until the last 2-3 rounds when Judah actually did anything. Like I said if he wants an older cat to beat up on there's Campbell maybe pull barrera out of retirement or something.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jun 28 2013, 07:54 AM) *
No matter how many fights Canelo loses, his support from GBP will keep him afloat. Once you have it in the general public's minds that you're a star, that wont ever go away...especially if you're a Mexican fighter. Lucas got outpointed by a fading Zab, and couldn't manage to get Devon outta there. Im sure everyone remembers how bad Devon looked in his last few fights at 140...the Kotelnik fight told it all.

How many people PAY to see Matthysse? Again, go look up his gate and stop posting stuff that's gonna get you a +1. For Christ's sake, Danny and Khan had a terrible gate in Vegas, so how in the world does a relatively unknown Matthysse even match that gate? He's fought at the Hard Rock as a headliner a couple of times, and couldn't sell that small room out, let alone, bring in views for Showtime. Anytime he did any decent views, was when he was the cofeature, NOT the headliner. So again, how many people are truly "paying" to see him fight?

They are WORKING on Danny's fan base, and I'm almost certain that it wont surpass Canelo's...we can all bet on that. How does fighting Zab, do nothing for his resume? So it's a good name on Matthysse's resume, but it's not good enough for Danny? C'mon now. I'll even pose the question as to how many tickets Judah/Matthysse sold, in comparison to Judah/Garcia. I'll wait...

They BOTH needed Zab. Garcia/Judah had a NASTY build-up and it even got postponed, which gave them more time to promote it. When Zab was getting ready to fight Lucas, where the build-up in that? Oh that's right...it was the quiet dangerous dude vs the fading legend who sometimes pulls the trigger and surprises us all...veeeery interesting. rolleyes_anim.gif

Maidana is no longer that dude to help fighters "get their weight up" so to speak. When he was a flat-footed punching machine, it was cool, but he appears to be more a threat than he was back then...nobody's gonna really clamor to fight him with the skill that he's been showing as of late. Back then, at least you could look good by hitting him with everything (because he was always there), until he hit you back.

GBP may make it "appear" as if all of these matches are "easy" to make, but at some point, they're gonna really slow down and go back to what makes sense (translation: what makes more money). Just because these matchups seem like big fights to us, doesn't always equate to "big fights" (translation: "big money") to them. Think about it, they have all the stars, why blow their load early on? Some of these guys need to stay fresh while these fights build up to their potential.

No Thumbs Up Diner for You!!!! LOL

Seriously, I am not saying Lucas is a box office smash hit. He is right now straight to DVD guy, but guess what? Everyone is going to the Red Box to see his flicks. Danny is not box office either, he is more like for select theaters and cities. He is popular but more to boxing fans and not the casual. Matthysse is hot right now. Judah showed guts and pop in his last fight. If Danny looks awful against Zab again that can really hurt him and his rising star status. Maidana and Matthysse is the fight I actually would rather see, but that ain't going to happen. So you said both fighters need Zab, my question is this: If Danny Boy gets Zab who does Lucas fight and vica versa? People want to see this match up and if they put it on The One undercard it would be off the chain. I would rather see Zab against Madiana versus he fighting the other two guys. Just my preference. Danny hasn't done shit to ask for 5 million. Beating a fat ass over the hill Morales does not do it for me. Shit, if Danny wants names on his resume, Chop Chop is fighting at 140 or he can take his ass up to 147 and fight old man Mosley. That would put asses in the seats... nono.gif
Cshel86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jun 28 2013, 12:09 PM) *
Bro I don't think anyone argued that zab did nothing for his resume, I think we are all arguing he does nothing for his resume twice, especially after he beat him soundly once in a fight that wasn't even entertaining until the last 2-3 rounds when Judah actually did anything. Like I said if he wants an older cat to beat up on there's Campbell maybe pull barrera out of retirement or something.

That was Dolimite that made the resume statement, not you. And yes, I agree that having those names on there twice, doesn't do much for their resume, but GBP can wing it and make it yet another event, then what's argue about? I cant agree with the saying that the Judah fight wasn't exciting until the last 2-3 rounds, because those early rounds showed a few new wrinkles for Danny against a still fast Judah.

I'd need some ulcer medication to get through a Barrera or Campbell matchup. Barrera doesn't have enough to even get people excited about watching him fight, and Campbell is waaay past it...Morales provided the entertainment, and at least came to fight in the first fight. Hell, he tried his hand in the rematch, but that only led to a quick night for Danny.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jun 28 2013, 12:15 PM) *
No Thumbs Up Diner for You!!!! LOL

Seriously, I am not saying Lucas is a box office smash hit. He is right now straight to DVD guy, but guess what? Everyone is going to the Red Box to see his flicks. Danny is not box office either, he is more like for select theaters and cities. He is popular but more to boxing fans and not the casual. Matthysse is hot right now. Judah showed guts and pop in his last fight. If Danny looks awful against Zab again that can really hurt him and his rising star status. Maidana and Matthysse is the fight I actually would rather see, but that ain't going to happen. So you said both fighters need Zab, my question is this: If Danny Boy gets Zab who does Lucas fight and vica versa? People want to see this match up and if they put it on The One undercard it would be off the chain. I would rather see Zab against Madiana versus he fighting the other two guys. Just my preference. Danny hasn't done shit to ask for 5 million. Beating a fat ass over the hill Morales does not do it for me. Shit, if Danny wants names on his resume, Chop Chop is fighting at 140 or he can take his ass up to 147 and fight old man Mosley. That would put asses in the seats... nono.gif

Thumbs Up all day over baby! You can eat that shit at noon, and still be full and sluggish at 10pm. laugh.gif

Morales showed more initiative in the first fight (broke Danny's nose and cut him), and people were saying the same thing when the rematch was announced. What happened in the rematch? Well, we already know how quick it ended.

If Danny gets Zab again, then they may throw Matthysse in there with...uhh...maybe a...well shit, I have no clue. Maybe, Kendall Holt dntknw.gif You're right, Danny hasn't done much to ask for $5M...not many fighters have done enough nowadays. No need to fight Chop Chop...they spar together and just about everybody has been in there with him. That should have taken place a long time ago.
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