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checkleft
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jul 3 2013, 07:14 PM) *
You set yourself up nicely lol. Report cards, really, is that what we're doing here hahaha. Might as well do away with them because the leaders and then people with money didn't go to college and some of them barely got past high school. To me, the great ones stand alone. Measuring their achievements side by side is nothing more then a passing contest most of the time and I ain't into that.

Jordan is GOAT, there's no disputing that. I'm starting to sound truthful and the truth hurts some I guess. I don't care what measuring meter you or anyone else uses. You heap ridiculous demands on athletes and celebs and after they do that you want them to do something else. When does the stuff stop? Like I said I see why they say fuck the fans sometimes, they have no appreciation. I've seen both sides of the coin and it literally disgusts me how people like what your saying say this crap.

I could never be a fan boy because I'm too intelligent and knowledgeable for that. But what I am and always will be is honest because truth is truth and in this scenario your truth isn't my truth and vice versa. Life isn't a movie where people can just heap demands on a personal and expect them to do them. It is not his fault that he'd head and shoulders above the rest, but you do what these so called fan boys do and spew the same rhetoric. Those guys had their time. And now it's his. You may not want to believe he's great but the proof is there

+1
frankducketts
GG has Pirog, Martinez, Froch, Quillin and Ward as options. Why mention Floyd? You won't get that fight until you fight someone with a pulse Mr GG.
checkleft
QUOTE (frankducketts @ Jul 5 2013, 04:51 PM) *
GG has Pirog, Martinez, Froch, Quillin and Ward as options. Why mention Floyd? You won't get that fight until you fight someone with a pulse Mr GG.

Again with pirog
mgrover
QUOTE (frankducketts @ Jul 5 2013, 09:51 PM) *
GG has Pirog, Martinez, Froch, Quillin and Ward as options. Why mention Floyd? You won't get that fight until you fight someone with a pulse Mr GG.


Will they fight him though
MAHDI
To hell with GGG.. here is a hard punching middleweight who rather than talk of moving to 168 to face Froch, Ward, or even 160 against the likes of Quillen etc.. talks about facing a fighter who just became a legit welter in the last few years-- what a joke. Hopkin's great middleweight dominance was ridiculed because he stayed at 160 for sooo long. What if Hopkins were calling out mayyweather? he would be lambasted. I am salivating at the time when he faces a HARD 160 PUNCHER. Someone who can crack like Antwun Echols used to crack before Hopkins ruined him...
klonopinz
of you guys wanna compare fighters then compare all aspects, not just in the ring. robinson, duran, louis,tyson, ali, all these guys jad serious financial issues outside the ring that ultimately led them to keep fighting past their rimes and take hard losses. Floyd has mastered this, and buiult himself an empire from which he will retire, and created a blueprint for how to be successfull in and outside the ring. robisnon was an icon and a role model in the ring, but outside the ring he had 10 failed businesses, white guys taking money from his pockets(this was the 50s remember lol) and he was being abusive to his family and cheating on his multiple wives constantly. Tyson, do i even need to remind you guys what tyson has done outside the ring? Ali got wrapped up with that POS elijah muhamad who i beleive killed malcom x, and eneded up going against the army and government in court. These were great thletes, but not role models. Im afraid to say that this is true of many famed athletes and actors we adore. Floyd mayweatehr has defeated everything in his path and with style in and out the ring. He is a true role model, somebody your kids can aspire to be, and his achievements in the ring are pretty fucking good too, and wats great is he isnt even done yet.

and as far as danny garcia goes, i am from philly just like danny, although im from the white trash section port richmond near kensington. but anyway, it feels to me this kid is trying to hold onto his newfound light by any means necessary. this amir khan win set him into the light, and he will do watever it takes to stay there. I think the only way mathysse and him fight, is if he is guaranteed by golden boy that win or lose he is still one of their favorite children. i think alot of this has to do with angel garcia, and the fact that he thinks danny deserves more than he should. I odnt know if its true. but from a trainers perspective and a father, wouldnt you hide your kids from mathysse? especially if you can still get a mayweather fight down the road without it?
duwdu
QUOTE
His greatness has already been cemented. It's not his fault that he's so good that boxers in 3 different weigh classes can't even hang in the gym with him. You want a natural 140lber whose really never been a WW to fight at 160 because a couple of people did it before. I'm sorry but that's laughable, those men had their time and had their career and it's over.

The one thing that many ATG's have is they staked their own claim. Let that man do the same, who cares what somebody did 20-30yrs ago, it's a new day and a new time and there are new ways to validate yourself and Mayweather jr is trying to do just that. I suggest that those who heap these ridiculous demands on him just let him be


QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jul 3 2013, 12:06 AM) *
Grown men don't baby grown men. You name these great fighters who did this and that but they were who they were. WTH would beating GGG prove? Not nothing, just to get a belt because some before him did it. That's ridiculous. He is his own man and he needs to be allowed to stake his own claim.

I got my career in marketing started thru entertainment based stuff. I've met many athletes and celebs and along the way I realized that 95% of fans aint sh%t, even the so called hardocre fans. Like brutal said the expectations that the fans put on these people are downright outrageous. If he did fight him and win you'd be calling for him to fight Ward and probably somebody else. At some point the dumb stuff has to stop

I respect trendsetters and those who do things on their own accord and Mayweather is definitely in a class of rare air there. He's taking on his biggest challenge and still yet that's not good enough for some. We need to get on Garcia if he doesn't fight Matthyse if this is the basis in which we're going to judge things. I see why some of these athletes and celebs say f%ck the fans. The stuff just never stops. GGG has business at 160 with many fighters and he can move up yet he throws his name in the hat with every fighter and wants a Mayweather showdown. I'm sorry but I think he's corny for that. He can't even beat the #2 P$P guy in Ward. He has no biz fighting Floyd and if they fought at 154, it would be a long night for him

At some point some fans need to step back and either appreciate what they're witnessing or just stop all together. I get sick of hearing that type of rhetoric, Jordan did this but now he should do this. Lebron did this, if he wants a real challenge and be better then Jordan he needs to do this. Floyd should do this because some fighter did this, screw that. The cycle never changes but it needs to


Not afraid to say these ^^ two posts are the best responses I've seen in this thread on the core issue of how some are using their own definition of "greatness" or "truth" to try and water down the achievements of Mayweather, Jr.; and I have read the thread through the post immediately before this one of mine.

To emphasize on one of mrchitown's points, the way Mayweather achieves his own greatness does not in any way have to be the way and manner in which SRR or the Durans of this world were seen by some to have attained theirs. Mayweather has done it his own and unique way...according to/shaped by the dictates in his own generation. For instance, elites don't (in fact, can't) fight twelve times a year anymore! So, saying Duran for one fought a thousand times before his first defeat, is just plain irrelevant to Mayweather's legacy.

Mayweather fights and beats GGG, say, at 160, and you'll hear these same silly arguments that, "to cement his legacy," he should fight - and defeat - Andre Ward. The small problem would then further be that Andre Ward has - or would have - in the meantime, since moved up and established himself as the best at 175! Yet, that won't stop such calls. Such calls simply have to stop indeed. They should have stopped already.

I once wrote that, just like some in SRR's own generation could not recognize him as having been better than some unique fighters in the generations (say, pre-moving pictures) before theirs, so also will some in Floyd Mayweather's generation view/judge Mayweather. And so shall some a few generations to come or even the next one, view the "Mayweather" of their own time. Ad infinitum.

P34c3
daprofessor
laugh.gif

if floyd's undefeated record is what we point to as a measure of his success....why is it wrong to bring up roberto durans run? joe calzaghe went 46-0. are we to believe he is great because he did so? he did it his own way as well. is his career better than roys and bhops? he beat the both of them. or should we not hold these guys to the same standards? is joe an atg? he's seemingly done well for himself too! i'm sure parents would love to have their kids emulate joecal. who wouldn't want their son to be like him? he's a role model too, isn't he? floyd is 44-0 w/26 ko's while joecal is 46-0 w/32 ko's. is joe greater than floyd?

checkleft
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jul 5 2013, 08:27 PM) *
Will they fight him though

One things for sure, pirog won't fight him =D
mgrover
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 8 2013, 10:54 PM) *
One things for sure, pirog won't fight him =D


out of Pirog, Martinez, Froch, Quillin and Ward.

Martinez is out for this year
Froch may fight him if its in the UK, but am unsure whether GGG would win depending how his power carries up to SMW
Quillin would lose, and most likely wouldn't take the fight, but am surprised GG or anyone from his camp hasn't called him out yet?
Ward am unsure about, he'd fight him when he's at his peak, unsure who'd win
Pirog...Who?
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 8 2013, 02:04 PM) *
laugh.gif

if floyd's undefeated record is what we point to as a measure of his success....why is it wrong to bring up roberto durans run? joe calzaghe went 46-0. are we to believe he is great because he did so? he did it his own way as well. is his career better than roys and bhops? he beat the both of them. or should we not hold these guys to the same standards? is joe an atg? he's seemingly done well for himself too! i'm sure parents would love to have their kids emulate joecal. who wouldn't want their son to be like him? he's a role model too, isn't he? floyd is 44-0 w/26 ko's while joecal is 46-0 w/32 ko's. is joe greater than floyd?



Your first point is the reason why all the rest is a problem. What do i mean? Glad you asked; once again out of all the undefeated fighters in the sport we single out Floyd, why?? Yes it's wrong to bring up Duran's run, why? Because that was in Roberto's era, not now. Calzaghe had his time and though Hopkins and Roy has wins since that robbery and loss (BHop won IMHO and Roy just got his anus dusted), his best will always be viewed with some measure of taintedness concerning his win over Roy (some say he was way past his prime) and even moreso vs Hopkins (a fight many feel he lost) but barring the Castillo 1 fight (one in which Floyd easily avenged) nobody came close to beating Floyd and there is no controversy on how he got to where he is. Is Joe an ATG? Not in my opinion but maybe by some and in his era he will be viewed as such.

Is Floyd an ATG? Not in comparison with the greats of my time but to many in this generation/their era then he will be viewed as such easily, so everything that an individual states is up for discussion concerning greatness and the comparisons will always be made from then to now.

Is a 69 Chevelle better than a 2013 Charger?? Who knows, who chooses what? Subjective is the word, and the choice is your's.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Jul 17 2013, 04:49 PM) *
Your first point is the reason why all the rest is a problem. What do i mean? Glad you asked; once again out of all the undefeated fighters in the sport we single out Floyd, why?? Yes it's wrong to bring up Duran's run, why? Because that was in Roberto's era, not now. Calzaghe had his time and though Hopkins and Roy has wins since that robbery and loss (BHop won IMHO and Roy just got his anus dusted), his best will always be viewed with some measure of taintedness concerning his win over Roy (some say he was way past his prime) and even moreso vs Hopkins (a fight many feel he lost) but barring the Castillo 1 fight (one in which Floyd easily avenged) nobody came close to beating Floyd and there is no controversy on how he got to where he is. Is Joe an ATG? Not in my opinion but maybe by some and in his era he will be viewed as such.

Is Floyd an ATG? Not in comparison with the greats of my time but to many in this generation/their era then he will be viewed as such easily, so everything that an individual states is up for discussion concerning greatness and the comparisons will always be made from then to now.

Is a 69 Chevelle better than a 2013 Charger?? Who knows, who chooses what? Subjective is the word, and the choice is your's.


a lot of ppl thought castillo beat floyd in the first fight. that was controversial.

joe...like floyd...has a lot of question marks around his reign because he didn't fight his best opponents at their peak. joecal's best win was over kessler or maybe lacy. one thing floyd has over joecal is longevity. the fact that he was fighter of the year in '98 and then again in '08....and he's still relevant and undefeated in '13 says a lot about him and the quality of his opposition.

as for the '69 chevelle compared to a '13 charger....there are several measurable factors that you can point to as evidence of which is better than the other. the thing you can't point to however, is what will that '13 charger be worth down the line? will it increase/decrease in value? the '69 chevelle is a classic collectible. only time will tell if the '13 charger will exceed the '69 chevelle. similarly...in boxing...only time will tell who's reign was greater...who's impact was more significant.
klonopinz
floyd is an enzo then, a high end supercar that will always increase in value, because of its rarity and exclusiveness. It is the pinnacle of the greatest supercar brand, the brand with the richest racing history in autosports.
daprofessor
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Aug 7 2013, 07:09 PM) *
floyd is an enzo then, a high end supercar that will always increase in value, because of its rarity and exclusiveness. It is the pinnacle of the greatest supercar brand, the brand with the richest racing history in autosports.


well said. he's definitely up there.
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 7 2013, 04:02 PM) *
well said. he's definitely up there.

But, but, but, he ducked Margarito!
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Aug 7 2013, 10:53 PM) *
But, but, but, he ducked Margarito!


that's one of the asterisks (*) i spoke of earlier... laugh.gif casual fans don't give a shit....hardcore fans don't have total understanding. i get that floyd left arum and was still in court over money owed to him from the judah fight....so to do a deal with arum to fight margarito or cotto was not realistic at the time. now williams...who had beat margarito shortly after margarito called floyd out...that's a different story. i won't go into his choice to retire at that moment...or his ignoring paul williams call out...or roger and floyd sr both saying, "why should floyd have to fight all these guys? let them fight each other and when the smoke clears...blah, blah, blah.." none of that takes away from floyds skills.
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 8 2013, 01:01 PM) *
that's one of the asterisks (*) i spoke of earlier... laugh.gif casual fans don't give a shit....hardcore fans don't have total understanding. i get that floyd left arum and was still in court over money owed to him from the judah fight....so to do a deal with arum to fight margarito or cotto was not realistic at the time. now williams...who had beat margarito shortly after margarito called floyd out...that's a different story. i won't go into his choice to retire at that moment...or his ignoring paul williams call out...or roger and floyd sr both saying, "why should floyd have to fight all these guys? let them fight each other and when the smoke clears...blah, blah, blah.." none of that takes away from floyds skills.

I thought he had already planned on retiring after his last fight. I think he hurt his hand in that fight and wanted to retire. But shit who knows, do I think Williams would of hurt Mayweather? Um, with his reach he could do damage but I also think Williams lack of defense would of been his downfall.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Aug 8 2013, 06:28 PM) *
I thought he had already planned on retiring after his last fight. I think he hurt his hand in that fight and wanted to retire. But shit who knows, do I think Williams would of hurt Mayweather? Um, with his reach he could do damage but I also think Williams lack of defense would of been his downfall.


yeah...williams had the tools...but whether he would have been able to get the job done...that's the question. one thing is for sure...the length and activity would have been a problem for floyd. you've never seen floyd fight anyone that tall or busy...plus he was a southpaw. i can say, i honestly thought pdub had a chance to beat floyd. we will never know for sure. imagine how differently things would have played out if after williams beat margarito he got the shot at cotto instead of bob serving him up to margarito.
Dolimite
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 8 2013, 03:46 PM) *
yeah...williams had the tools...but whether he would have been able to get the job done...that's the question. one thing is for sure...the length and activity would have been a problem for floyd. you've never seen floyd fight anyone that tall or busy...plus he was a southpaw. i can say, i honestly thought pdub had a chance to beat floyd. we will never know for sure. imagine how differently things would have played out if after williams beat margarito he got the shot at cotto instead of bob serving him up to margarito.

True. I mean shit, we can never tell. I know Diego was taller than him he chopped him down pretty good his best performance. P Williams reach and his work rate would be problematic, but his footwork sucked and his conditioning was okay. Could he cut off the ring and keep his work rate up against a moving target? it would of been interesting. If P Williams beat Cotto and called out Mayweather, I would hope Mayweather would say "bring it"
daprofessor
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Aug 9 2013, 01:34 PM) *
True. I mean shit, we can never tell. I know Diego was taller than him he chopped him down pretty good his best performance. P Williams reach and his work rate would be problematic, but his footwork sucked and his conditioning was okay. Could he cut off the ring and keep his work rate up against a moving target? it would of been interesting. If P Williams beat Cotto and called out Mayweather, I would hope Mayweather would say "bring it"


in a perfect world...that should have been the way it played out.
Hotsauce
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Aug 8 2013, 06:46 PM) *
yeah...williams had the tools...but whether he would have been able to get the job done...that's the question. one thing is for sure...the length and activity would have been a problem for floyd. you've never seen floyd fight anyone that tall or busy...plus he was a southpaw. i can say, i honestly thought pdub had a chance to beat floyd. we will never know for sure. imagine how differently things would have played out if after williams beat margarito he got the shot at cotto instead of bob serving him up to margarito.


mexico vs puerto rico. u know arum was going make that fight
daprofessor
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Aug 11 2013, 11:14 PM) *
mexico vs puerto rico. u know arum was going make that fight


yeah...pretty much.
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