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Full Version: Cotto goes back to TopRank?!
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The Original MrFactor
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/94560...eturns-top-rank



He picks Roach as his Trainer. I wonder if this was really a deep seeded move by HBO to get a star in that weight class on their network. I'd love to see Cotto go back to 147 and start getting with the Bradley's, Alexander's and Mayweather Jr Jr's of the world. He's not built for 154. PLEASE Miguel go back to 147 and become a bigger legend. he can beat all of the top guys at 147 and retire a stud.
mrchitown
I said it all the time about Miguel, when stuff doesn't go his way he wants to get with a new trainer. He and Chad Dawson should become buddies and do a reality show

I thought it was a great move in Cotto's part when he broke away from Arum, even though he's still a free agent I'm not really feeling the move nor the opponents they are talking about. I believe Delvin Rodriguez is the front runner to land the fight.

Your right in the fact that cotto is not a junior middleweight, he's a blown up welter and he needs to be fighting there
flazi
his last trainer was good for him. i don't see what roach can add to his game excepts a few better combos.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (flazi @ Jul 7 2013, 03:28 AM) *
his last trainer was good for him. i don't see what roach can add to his game excepts a few better combos.



he can point him in the direction of a roid dealer...
sduck
I don't get the mindless love. I mean I like Cotto but come on, he's done.
Plah
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jul 7 2013, 06:44 AM) *
he can point him in the direction of a roid dealer...

laugh.gif
wolterb
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jul 7 2013, 01:08 AM) *
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/94560...eturns-top-rank



He picks Roach as his Trainer. I wonder if this was really a deep seeded move by HBO to get a star in that weight class on their network. I'd love to see Cotto go back to 147 and start getting with the Bradley's, Alexander's and Mayweather Jr Jr's of the world. He's not built for 154. PLEASE Miguel go back to 147 and become a bigger legend. he can beat all of the top guys at 147 and retire a stud.


I'd lean towards that idea too, hbo wants another name. but I have to think that Cotto is the main brain behind the weight. He probably is looking to get Alvarez and Martinez, win or lose, get the paychecks and get outta dodge. Alexander, Bradley and Broner all could get thrashed but they could pull an upset too and none of them give Cotto the same kinda money the jr mws do as far as I know
mgrover
All those wanting the 147 move, according to him he just can't make that weight anymore
Tray1201
Cotto done
Dolimite
It makes sense. If things for well for Pacquiao against Rios, this can set up a rematch for Cotto and Pacquiao. I doubt Marquez or Bradley is next in line to fight Pac. Plus with the weak fighters Top Rank has at 147, Cotto can get a few good wins under his belt and then rematch Pacquiao in late May or early July. Smart move. I do not agree that he should be with Roach. Roach is going to get him killed. Roach is all offense and what Cotto needs is a defensive minded trainer. Virgil Hunter would of been perfect.
klonopinz
im sick of all this virgil hunter bullshit, that guy is not the answer for every fighter, cotto has great defense already. amir khan and him do not mesh together watsoever, and khan has looked worse since joining him. At least roach had khans speed and offense dialed in to perfection, under hunter hes looked like a shell of his former self. virgil hunter cant just take any fighter and turn them into andre ward, ward would have been complete no matter who he trained with, just like floyd. they know how to fight instinctively, they were born to do it. enough with the pom poms
xxxxxx
QUOTE (Tray1201 @ Jul 7 2013, 02:22 PM) *
Cotto done



I don't think Cotto is done in the sport of Boxing. Actually I still consider him a top 5 Jr. Middleweight in the world. Fighting a guy like Rodriguez or Molina is a nice comeback fight for Cotto before another big one against a Bradley, Marquez or even a rematch with Pacman. I wanted to see the Cotto-Alvarez match, but it looks like that will not be happening at this point. The good thing for Cotto is that as long as he keeps his contracts short term he has the option to fight Boxers from different promotional companies.
BigFightFan
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Jul 7 2013, 05:23 PM) *
im sick of all this virgil hunter bullshit, that guy is not the answer for every fighter, cotto has great defense already. amir khan and him do not mesh together watsoever, and khan has looked worse since joining him. At least roach had khans speed and offense dialed in to perfection, under hunter hes looked like a shell of his former self. virgil hunter cant just take any fighter and turn them into andre ward, ward would have been complete no matter who he trained with, just like floyd. they know how to fight instinctively, they were born to do it. enough with the pom poms

I would have to agree with you on this one
Dolimite
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Jul 7 2013, 02:23 PM) *
im sick of all this virgil hunter bullshit, that guy is not the answer for every fighter, cotto has great defense already. amir khan and him do not mesh together watsoever, and khan has looked worse since joining him. At least roach had khans speed and offense dialed in to perfection, under hunter hes looked like a shell of his former self. virgil hunter cant just take any fighter and turn them into andre ward, ward would have been complete no matter who he trained with, just like floyd. they know how to fight instinctively, they were born to do it. enough with the pom poms

So Virgil Hill is overrated in your opinion but Roach isn't? What Hill did with that kid Gonzalez was brilliant. It is not so much the technique that Hill uses but the confidence that he gives his fighters during rounds. I think Cotto gets down on himself, Hill would be a constant positive reinforcement for him. No one is saying they will be another Andre Ward, two different fighters. Amir Khan is a shit boxer anyway. Great hand speed and exciting, but there is no cure for stupidity and a glass chin.
HyyerBlaze
There goes any chance at a canelo/cotto fight.


Doubt his performance had anything to do with his trainer..guy just wasnt in shape in his last fight (imo) thats on him
mgrover
QUOTE (HyyerBlaze @ Jul 8 2013, 12:21 AM) *
There goes any chance at a canelo/cotto fight.


Doubt his performance had anything to do with his trainer..guy just wasnt in shape im his last fight (imo) thats on him


I swear Cotto always gasses late in his fights.
checkleft
Cotto should not have left Pedro.

Would not be surprised if delving beats cotto. Maybe even stops him, delvin is no slouch by any means and I don't think roach can get more out of cotto than diaz
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 8 2013, 12:14 AM) *
Cotto should not have left Pedro.

Would not be surprised if delving beats cotto. Maybe even stops him, delvin is no slouch by any means and I don't think roach can get more out of cotto than diaz



I'm with you. I would not be surprised to see Rodriguez beat Cotto. Cotto is just too small for 154 and likely doesnt want to put the work in to make 147.
mrchitown
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Jul 7 2013, 04:23 PM) *
im sick of all this virgil hunter bullshit, that guy is not the answer for every fighter, cotto has great defense already. amir khan and him do not mesh together watsoever, and khan has looked worse since joining him. At least roach had khans speed and offense dialed in to perfection, under hunter hes looked like a shell of his former self. virgil hunter cant just take any fighter and turn them into andre ward, ward would have been complete no matter who he trained with, just like floyd. they know how to fight instinctively, they were born to do it. enough with the pom poms


Hunter is a great trainer and maybe the reason khan as you say has looked so bad is because he's not used to fighting as an actual pro style. I think you insult Hunter and other trainers when you compare what Roach did for khan as opposed to what Virgil is doing. Khan was mediocre before with and after Roach, his chin is the worst and there's no coaching that.

If I had a kid who wanted to box I'd take them to Hunter before Freddie, he's over rated in my eyes. I'd train with the under rated and under appreciated Jeff Mayweather before him. He's good but not as good as the media and others claim. Ward is a special talent but to say he'd be complete no matter who he trained with is disagreeable. It takes a good coach to cultivate and build on talent, and Ward is being trained by a master. It's few masters in the sport but there's no shortage of good trainers like a red die Roach or Robert Garcia. But people like Nazi Richardson and Virgil hunter are masters of their craft

Cotto has great defense lol? Yeah ok believe that if you want. Khan is an offensive fighter, Roach is good at these types of boxers, can't really name too many defensive studs coming out of the wild card gym. His combos are amateurish at best, he's a rinse, cycle and repeat guy. Ring IQ, defense, technique are just a few examples of what Hunter can and is trying to improve with Khan. Roach ain't doing none of that. As far as pom poms, people pompom the the heck out of Roach, I hope you take issue with that as well
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Jul 7 2013, 06:53 PM) *
I swear Cotto always gasses late in his fights.


That's why I think Diaz was so good for him because he tailor made his training regimen around Cotto's strengths and weaknesses. I like the approach he took to training Cotto.

When ever things don't go his way, he switches trainers. He needs to look at what he isn't doing instead of looking to always make a switch in trainers. I think he made a mistake when he left Steward. Steward improved his balance and had Cotto actually working behind the jab again. And we all know cotto has a solid jab. Steward is a better trainer then Roach and I bet the work that he did with Cotto will outweigh anything Freddie does with him
xxxxxx
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 7 2013, 11:14 PM) *
Cotto should not have left Pedro.

Would not be surprised if delving beats cotto. Maybe even stops him, delvin is no slouch by any means and I don't think roach can get more out of cotto than diaz



I agree he shouldn't have switched trainers again, but I dont see how Delvin beats Cotto.
Cshel86
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Jul 7 2013, 05:23 PM) *
im sick of all this virgil hunter bullshit, that guy is not the answer for every fighter, cotto has great defense already. amir khan and him do not mesh together watsoever, and khan has looked worse since joining him. At least roach had khans speed and offense dialed in to perfection, under hunter hes looked like a shell of his former self. virgil hunter cant just take any fighter and turn them into andre ward, ward would have been complete no matter who he trained with, just like floyd. they know how to fight instinctively, they were born to do it. enough with the pom poms

Pfffff...

That egg head of his, gets thumped up in every fight, lol.

I agree with the rest of your post though.

QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jul 7 2013, 07:20 PM) *
So Virgil Hill is overrated in your opinion but Roach isn't? What Hill did with that kid Gonzalez was brilliant. It is not so much the technique that Hill uses but the confidence that he gives his fighters during rounds. I think Cotto gets down on himself, Hill would be a constant positive reinforcement for him. No one is saying they will be another Andre Ward, two different fighters. Amir Khan is a shit boxer anyway. Great hand speed and exciting, but there is no cure for stupidity and a glass chin.

It's HUNTER, not Hill. I do agree with the last sentence, though I wouldn't call it stupidity on Khan's part. His heart just gets the best of him, while his brain goes on vacation.
Cshel86
I may be in the minority here, but Cotto's bad business moves have surpassed his defeats, and his slow demise is becoming harder and harder to watch.

We forgave him for the Margarito loss, okay. We forgave him for the shaky Clottey performance, okay. We forgave him for the Pacquiao loss, cool. We praised him for leaving Arum, and becoming his own boss, cool.

We forgave him for dropping his uncle, and picking up what's his nuts for the Pacquiao fight. We forgave him for leaving Manny Steward. We forgave him for the Floyd loss, because he looked great in his losing effort, cool.

For some God awful reason, he took the Trout fight...we gave him a hesitant round of applause for even signing for the fight, but we STILL cant figure out why he took it. He losses to Trout, and hias to play second fiddle to Canelo, and NOW he goes to Roach and continues his "free agency" with Top Rank?!

I'm done with the forgiveness...
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 8 2013, 07:26 AM) *
Pfffff...

That egg head of his, gets thumped up in every fight, lol.

I agree with the rest of your post though.


It's HUNTER, not Hill. I do agree with the last sentence, though I wouldn't call it stupidity on Khan's part. His heart just gets the best of him, while his brain goes on vacation.

So if your heart speaks for your head, it means you are stupid to listen to your heart. The brain is suppose to call the shots, not the heart. You see many men fall because they followed their heart and not their head... if you need proof see : Alex Rodriguez who left his fine ass wife to be with Madonna. Damn shame. Or Shaq, who damn near wifed up a girl who sexed Flavor Flav... stupidity.
daprofessor
cotto has already had a brilliant career. any highs at this point will just be icing on the cake. whether freddie is right for him or not remains to be seen. i'm not sure what the deal is with top rank...but i'm guessing after his taste of freedom and real money he's probably got the best deal available out there for him after coming off of two losses. i'm not sure this fight against delvin rodriguez is going to be an easy one for him. the chances of him fighting pacquiao in the future are extremely slim because he's not going back down to 147 and pac isn't going up...plus freddie is training him now. in his last two losses...he didn't take a beating at all imo. i'll tune in to see what he has left. i'll be rooting for him.
BigFightFan
Cotto is officially the most confused individual in boxing. Diaz atleast had him in tip top condition which at this point in his career is all he needs. I doubt their is much he can learn at this late stage in his career.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BigFightFan @ Jul 8 2013, 07:11 PM) *
Cotto is officially the most confused individual in boxing. Diaz atleast had him in tip top condition which at this point in his career is all he needs. I doubt their is much he can learn at this late stage in his career.


diaz was good...but a little over rated imo. he had cotto leaning all over his front foot and blocking instead of slipping.
klonopinz
those habits seem to have been there all of his career to be honest. hes a left hooker, and they tend to lean on their front foot a lot, and cotto has always been a blocker. he has decent head movement, but its more for offense than defense. cotto does have very underrated defense, and im not talking pure physical defense such as blocking, slipping, rolling etc, im talking being able to predict whats coming and to assess his opponents offense. He did that well with floyd and was able to reduce floyds hit percentage to 25% which is pretty good considering floyd lands 41% for his career totals. he was also able to out box mosley using his defense also, not that that means anything now, im just saying he has defense. I think hes just lacked power in the 154 division. Thats why he has not been so successful in this weight. at 140 he could knock guys out and at 147 he could break guys down or at least keep them honest, but at 154 he cant get any respect, and he cant really hurt anyone either. Hes just in a lose lose situation from every angle in his career right now, so i think hes just cashing in on his name and retiring as another puerto rican legend along with trinidad, gomez and benitez.
The Original MrFactor
Cotto used to be a killer body pucher. He ended fights at 140 and 147 with devastating body punches. Where is that guy. Is it possible that the higher weight bring bigger and taller guys who can keep him back with a jab, so that he has to keep his hands up and ignore the body. I'm hoping Roach can bring the body punching Cotto back. Maybe he needs his uncle back in his life.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 8 2013, 06:57 PM) *
diaz was good...but a little over rated imo. he had cotto leaning all over his front foot and blocking instead of slipping.

That's because cotto used to just eat the punches lol. He's never been able to slip
klonopinz
it had nothing to do with his uncle evangelista, in fact they hated each other and created negativity in the camp which is never good. When cotto was with evangelista and winning all those fights it was because he was strong as shit and in his prime. cotto has always been his own boss, and has always only needed a trainer to get him in shape, not really teach him. cotto knows how to fight and is a very intelligent fighter, but it looks like he takes a beating because his facial features swell up and make him look a lot worse then it really is. He is a very clever fighter and he knows how to use his experience in the ring.

He would be a great test for canelo to go 12 rounds against IMO. I believe he would go the distance and give canelo a mayweather type of performance under roach. I believe roach will do for him much like he did for ruslan and get his ferociousness back and his aggressive ness and offensive timing perfected again. He will get him into cotto mode like that of old. The only thing he needs is a good punching style match up such as a come forward toe to toe fighter. Thats where cotto will really shine. He seems to be in the pacquiao boat, where they both need fights to shine again.

I would love to see a fight between cotto and James Kirkland since Kirkland is free. give his bum as 100 grand and let them fight on hbo, fuck it why not? i would have loved to see either of angulo or lara fight cotto and i was really hoping for that but maybe down the road.
klonopinz
maybe when mayweather fights next cinco de mayo they could put cotto on the undercard agaisnt angulo or lara. puertor ico vs mexico is always good for boxing and that wouldbe a war plus it would make cotto some good green fighting on a mayweather card. he could also always fight canelo on a PPV as long as he wins his next fight. which i believe that is what golden boy is hoping for. i think top rank wishes for cotto to move up to middleweight and fight golovkin or something. i know they sparred at big bear and shit. i woukldnt mind seeing cotto fight martinez? they both could cash in their names before retiring and i think they would give us one hell of a fight with cotto stalking and martinez playing matador. good matchup IMO for two guys on their way out. do it on hbo with provodnikov vs alvarado. just my two cents.
The Original MrFactor
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Jul 9 2013, 04:51 AM) *
it had nothing to do with his uncle evangelista, in fact they hated each other and created negativity in the camp which is never good. When cotto was with evangelista and winning all those fights it was because he was strong as shit and in his prime. cotto has always been his own boss, and has always only needed a trainer to get him in shape, not really teach him. cotto knows how to fight and is a very intelligent fighter, but it looks like he takes a beating because his facial features swell up and make him look a lot worse then it really is. He is a very clever fighter and he knows how to use his experience in the ring.

He would be a great test for canelo to go 12 rounds against IMO. I believe he would go the distance and give canelo a mayweather type of performance under roach. I believe roach will do for him much like he did for ruslan and get his ferociousness back and his aggressive ness and offensive timing perfected again. He will get him into cotto mode like that of old. The only thing he needs is a good punching style match up such as a come forward toe to toe fighter. Thats where cotto will really shine. He seems to be in the pacquiao boat, where they both need fights to shine again.

I would love to see a fight between cotto and James Kirkland since Kirkland is free. give his bum as 100 grand and let them fight on hbo, fuck it why not? i would have loved to see either of angulo or lara fight cotto and i was really hoping for that but maybe down the road.


I like the macthup, but I think a trained and focused Kirkland stops Cotto. In fact I dont even think Cotto is a top 5 Jr MW. I can immediately think of 5 dudes ahead of him in the pecking order, that will beat him right out of the box. I'm a Cotto fan and think he is a great guy for the sport and a great, legendary fighter.


The 5 are(since I mentioned it)
Trout
Canelo
Lara
Molina
Kirkland

There may be more, like Angulo, who I think Cotto may beat if they fought, but those 5 are guys Cotto shouldnt go near.
checkleft
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jul 9 2013, 06:18 AM) *
I like the macthup, but I think a trained and focused Kirkland stops Cotto. In fact I dont even think Cotto is a top 5 Jr MW. I can immediately think of 5 dudes ahead of him in the pecking order, that will beat him right out of the box. I'm a Cotto fan and think he is a great guy for the sport and a great, legendary fighter.


The 5 are(since I mentioned it)
Trout
Canelo
Lara
Molina
Kirkland

There may be more, like Angulo, who I think Cotto may beat if they fought, but those 5 are guys Cotto shouldnt go near.

Kirkland is and always will be nothing but a question mark. The guy can't take/avoid straight shots, Lara would knock him out. And I'm not sure molina could out box cotto, but Lara trout and canelo could definitely beat cotto. Shit maybe even Ishe

And molina and Lara are the type of guys nobody should go near lol
mrchitown
Though I still don't get the idea of Miguel training with Roach, I will definitely be tuning in now since Terrence Crawford is fighting on the card
Hotsauce
Cotto stay with different trainers
Hotsauce
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 8 2013, 09:32 AM) *
I may be in the minority here, but Cotto's bad business moves have surpassed his defeats, and his slow demise is becoming harder and harder to watch.

We forgave him for the Margarito loss, okay. We forgave him for the shaky Clottey performance, okay. We forgave him for the Pacquiao loss, cool. We praised him for leaving Arum, and becoming his own boss, cool.

We forgave him for dropping his uncle, and picking up what's his nuts for the Pacquiao fight. We forgave him for leaving Manny Steward. We forgave him for the Floyd loss, because he looked great in his losing effort, cool.

For some God awful reason, he took the Trout fight...we gave him a hesitant round of applause for even signing for the fight, but we STILL cant figure out why he took it. He loses to Trout, and has to play second fiddle to Canelo, and NOW he goes to Roach and continues his "free agency" with Top Rank?!

I'm done with the forgiveness...



lmaoooooooooooo
daprofessor
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Jul 8 2013, 10:42 PM) *
those habits seem to have been there all of his career to be honest. hes a left hooker, and they tend to lean on their front foot a lot, and cotto has always been a blocker. he has decent head movement, but its more for offense than defense. cotto does have very underrated defense, and im not talking pure physical defense such as blocking, slipping, rolling etc, im talking being able to predict whats coming and to assess his opponents offense. He did that well with floyd and was able to reduce floyds hit percentage to 25% which is pretty good considering floyd lands 41% for his career totals. he was also able to out box mosley using his defense also, not that that means anything now, im just saying he has defense. I think hes just lacked power in the 154 division. Thats why he has not been so successful in this weight. at 140 he could knock guys out and at 147 he could break guys down or at least keep them honest, but at 154 he cant get any respect, and he cant really hurt anyone either. Hes just in a lose lose situation from every angle in his career right now, so i think hes just cashing in on his name and retiring as another puerto rican legend along with trinidad, gomez and benitez.



he's 3-2 w/3ko's at 154. his two losses came against 2 very good undefeated boxers. his stoppages were against guys who were naturally bigger. i think he has respectful power at 154. he's pretty much done all he needed to do in his career. there's no shame to losing to floyd imo. he gave floyd the toughest fight of his career. (floyds words...not mine.) i think he has a few good fights left in him.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 9 2013, 01:15 AM) *
That's because cotto used to just eat the punches lol. He's never been able to slip


cotto has underrated defense imo. sure...he's been hurt a few times and stopped...but go back and watch some of his fights. up until about the 6th or 7th round with margarito...his defense was brilliant. he just couldn't keep it up...and they had the wrong game plan for that fight.
daprofessor
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Jul 9 2013, 04:51 AM) *
it had nothing to do with his uncle evangelista, in fact they hated each other and created negativity in the camp which is never good. When cotto was with evangelista and winning all those fights it was because he was strong as shit and in his prime. cotto has always been his own boss, and has always only needed a trainer to get him in shape, not really teach him. cotto knows how to fight and is a very intelligent fighter, but it looks like he takes a beating because his facial features swell up and make him look a lot worse then it really is. He is a very clever fighter and he knows how to use his experience in the ring.

He would be a great test for canelo to go 12 rounds against IMO. I believe he would go the distance and give canelo a mayweather type of performance under roach. I believe roach will do for him much like he did for ruslan and get his ferociousness back and his aggressive ness and offensive timing perfected again. He will get him into cotto mode like that of old. The only thing he needs is a good punching style match up such as a come forward toe to toe fighter. Thats where cotto will really shine. He seems to be in the pacquiao boat, where they both need fights to shine again.

I would love to see a fight between cotto and James Kirkland since Kirkland is free. give his bum as 100 grand and let them fight on hbo, fuck it why not? i would have loved to see either of angulo or lara fight cotto and i was really hoping for that but maybe down the road.



disagree with this part. cotto got away from some good stuff he was doing with his uncle. his uncle is a good trainer. when cotto left him, he had so many mistakes he was making and there was no one there to correct them. that's the reason he barely beat clottey. it's also the reason he got his ass served to him against pac. emmanuel steward (rip) did a great job of helping him return to his roots. i thought they were a very good match and it would have been great to see them do a few more fights together.
daprofessor
QUOTE (The Original MrFactor @ Jul 9 2013, 07:18 AM) *
I like the macthup, but I think a trained and focused Kirkland stops Cotto. In fact I dont even think Cotto is a top 5 Jr MW. I can immediately think of 5 dudes ahead of him in the pecking order, that will beat him right out of the box. I'm a Cotto fan and think he is a great guy for the sport and a great, legendary fighter.


The 5 are(since I mentioned it)
Trout
Canelo
Lara
Molina
Kirkland

There may be more, like Angulo, who I think Cotto may beat if they fought, but those 5 are guys Cotto shouldnt go near.


trout obviously beat him...and i would favor lara over him as well....but i think fights with canelo, molina and kirkland are even.
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