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BrutUalBK
I've just read an article where Roberto Duran claims that Floyd would've been "ordinary" in his era, and now Freddie Roach is already drumming up Floyd vs Pac again as though it is a foregone conclusion that MP beats Rios. Is Roach simply talking trash to keep Pac relevant?? http://www.latinospost.com/articles/24447/...cquiao-next.htm

Why all the hate? Is Duran upset about something Floyd said? Does anyone actually agree with Roberto??

http://www.boxingscene.com/duran-my-era-ma...ordinary--68116



Cshel86
LMAO at this thread title! Epic!

"Is it That Time of the Month???"

laugh.gif

Let's see what BS stories they'll publish about Floyd, come November, during the week of Pac's fight.
checkleft
I read the duran article. I think he's just trying to side with Mexico

But its crazy to say he would have been ordinary in any era especially at his peak weight which would be 135 and 140. He's so versatile and skilled its just hate, people like Leonard would have been criticized in these times by all these brawler crazed and mma fans for "running". Willie pep my all time favorite boxer would have been labeled "boring". People like rigo who just put on a masterful performance against nonito get boo'ed and blocked off the networks.

Back then they were respected, I think Floyd would be as well.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Jul 29 2013, 04:44 PM) *
I've just read an article where Roberto Duran claims that Floyd would've been "ordinary" in his era, and now Freddie Roach is already drumming up Floyd vs Pac again as though it is a foregone conclusion that MP beats Rios. Is Roach simply talking trash to keep Pac relevant?? http://www.latinospost.com/articles/24447/...cquiao-next.htm

Why all the hate? Is Duran upset about something Floyd said? Does anyone actually agree with Roberto??

http://www.boxingscene.com/duran-my-era-ma...ordinary--68116


i don't view duran's comments as hate. what he is saying is truth. it's not a knock against floyd at all.

as for what roach is saying...that seems to be an emotional response to floyd's criticism of his fighter more than anything. it's premature for roach to make those comments when he hasn't even had pac back in the gym yet.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 29 2013, 03:56 PM) *
I read the duran article. I think he's just trying to side with Mexico

But its crazy to say he would have been ordinary in any era especially at his peak weight which would be 135 and 140. He's so versatile and skilled its just hate, people like Leonard would have been criticized in these times by all these brawler crazed and mma fans for "running". Willie pep my all time favorite boxer would have been labeled "boring". People like rigo who just put on a masterful performance against nonito get boo'ed and blocked off the networks.

Back then they were respected, I think Floyd would be as well.



Floyd would've been every bit as extraordinary in Duran's era as he is now, I can't believe Roberto would say some crap like that when he has losses to lesser fighters than Floyd; Esteban Dejesus and Wilfredo Benitez made him look slow and ordinary and neither of them are technically better and definitely not faster than Mayweather. Let's not forget that Duran quit when he couldn't catch up to SRL.

I think dude (Duran) has taken one too many shots and is quite delusional right now, as far as Roach is concerned he needs to STFU and realize that his boy has 2 losses back to back and may be heading for a 3rd.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 29 2013, 12:54 PM) *
LMAO at this thread title! Epic!

"Is it That Time of the Month???"

laugh.gif

Let's see what BS stories they'll publish about Floyd, come November, during the week of Pac's fight.

Note to Cshel: Dolimite did not start this THREAD!

Yeah, the hate is strong for right now. Oh well, that is the life of the top dog!

daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 29 2013, 04:56 PM) *
I read the duran article. I think he's just trying to side with Mexico

But its crazy to say he would have been ordinary in any era especially at his peak weight which would be 135 and 140. He's so versatile and skilled its just hate, people like Leonard would have been criticized in these times by all these brawler crazed and mma fans for "running". Willie pep my all time favorite boxer would have been labeled "boring". People like rigo who just put on a masterful performance against nonito get boo'ed and blocked off the networks.

Back then they were respected, I think Floyd would be as well.


welterweight floyd is not the best floyd. he'd be undersized against guys like hearns and leonard.

to floyds credit...he may have beaten a welterweight duran...but at lightweight...i think duran beats him.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Jul 29 2013, 05:01 PM) *
Floyd would've been every bit as extraordinary in Duran's era as he is now, I can't believe Roberto would say some crap like that when he has losses to lesser fighters than Floyd; Esteban Dejesus and Wilfredo Benitez made him look slow and ordinary and neither of them are technically better and definitely not faster than Mayweather. Let's not forget that Duran quit when he couldn't catch up to SRL.

I think dude (Duran) has taken one too many shots and is quite delusional right now, as far as Roach is concerned he needs to STFU and realize that his boy has 2 losses back to back and may be heading for a 3rd.


he avenged his loss to dejesus by ko. dejesus was no joke and could punch. benitez was no ordinary fighter either. let's not forget that duran was the first to beat leonard. also, let's not forget that the rematch wasn't on the level and duran's ppl hung him out to dry. leonard really didn't do shit to him in that rematch. the fight was close before he quit. leonard did nothing to make him quit.
Plah
That's just hate. Floyd shines in any era. Now, if this were the 80's he would have 1 or 2 losses by now because there is no way you stay undefeated while having faced Duran, SRL, Hearns, Hagler, Pryor, Sweet Pea, etc.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 29 2013, 04:03 PM) *
welterweight floyd is not the best floyd. he'd be undersized against guys like hearns and leonard.

to floyds credit...he may have beaten a welterweight duran...but at lightweight...i think duran beats him.

I'm pretty sure I said just that? huh.gif
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 29 2013, 04:06 PM) *
he avenged his loss to dejesus by ko. dejesus was no joke and could punch. benitez was no ordinary fighter either. let's not forget that duran was the first to beat leonard. also, let's not forget that the rematch wasn't on the level and duran's ppl hung him out to dry. leonard really didn't do shit to him in that rematch. the fight was close before he quit. leonard did nothing to make him quit.

He did more than enough to make him quit. He beat him mentally, he got mind fucked. Diddy style
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 29 2013, 04:06 PM) *
he avenged his loss to dejesus by ko. dejesus was no joke and could punch. benitez was no ordinary fighter either. let's not forget that duran was the first to beat leonard. also, let's not forget that the rematch wasn't on the level and duran's ppl hung him out to dry. leonard really didn't do shit to him in that rematch. the fight was close before he quit. leonard did nothing to make him quit.



There was no cause to defend any of that, at no point did I put Dejesus or especially Benitez down but both of them are not on the level with Floyd in overall skills and abilities and that is easy to see, as far as when Duran quit vs SRL then the fact that nothing (according to you) was really happening to him and he still quit then what does that really say about Duran??

As I recall that 2nd fight with SRL, Duran was getting taken to school early and you could tell that Ray wasn't fighting the fight that Roberto wanted him to fight like he did in their first outing which is why it totally frustrated and outclassed Duran and he quit because of sheer and utter frustration of not being fast enough to catch up to Sugar to lay a glove on him; Floyd was every bit as fast as SRL and if not, even faster at 130.

Still it's just a matter of opinion from Duran who admits that he hate Floyd so it's obvious why he'd make such a claim but just because he said it doesn't mean that it would've been so, I happen to see that Floyd has the skills, stamina, defense to deal with anyone in any era just as Leonard even said himself.

Here's what Sugar Ray Leonard had to say about Floyd Mayweather Jr and I'll stack this up against anything anyone here says that is negative or otherwise:
Quote:

"What impressed me about Mayweather was that he’s 36 and [had] been inactive for a more than a year. Very few fighters, even myself, could come back and have the mental and psychological capacity to stay focused like he did. He was brilliant. He was a sheer boxing technician. His performance made me look up and say, ‘Yes, he can compete with any era.’”
Dolimite
I think at best against the Fab 4 Floyd would of gone 3-1 his only lost being to the Marvelous One, at worse he would of gone 2-2, losses coming from Haglar and Hearns.
leonthegee
Durans a goddamn quiter what the fuck does he know? Im sick of this overwhelming infatuation with the past. Athletes are bigger stronger faster now than ever before. Duran was a drug addict and a drinker. He never led a discipline lifestyle. Thats why he ended up where he did. Fighting on Booze Cruises in the ladder stages of his career.
sduck
People are just looking at names/resume/status and not actual skill. Duran also claimed that ODH vs FMJ was a draw, I mean just because you're a famed and highly respected fighter, don't mean you're just right because you said it.
checkleft
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Jul 29 2013, 05:24 PM) *
Durans a goddamn quiter what the fuck does he know? Im sick of this overwhelming infatuation with the past. Athletes are bigger stronger faster now than ever before. Duran was a drug addict and a drinker. He never led a discipline lifestyle. Thats why he ended up where he did. Fighting on Booze Cruises in the ladder stages of his career.


Idk about the booze stuff but I totally agree with the infatuation about the past
QUOTE (sduck @ Jul 29 2013, 06:44 PM) *
People are just looking at names/resume/status and not actual skill. Duran also claimed that ODH vs FMJ was a draw, I mean just because you're a famed and highly respected fighter, don't mean you're just right because you said it.

Exactly. Former athletes aren't always the best judges of skill
Dolimite
QUOTE (sduck @ Jul 29 2013, 03:44 PM) *
People are just looking at names/resume/status and not actual skill. Duran also claimed that ODH vs FMJ was a draw, I mean just because you're a famed and highly respected fighter, don't mean you're just right because you said it.

Amen.
Jovi
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jul 29 2013, 06:14 PM) *
I think at best against the Fab 4 Floyd would of gone 3-1 his only lost being to the Marvelous One, at worse he would of gone 2-2, losses coming from Haglar and Hearns.


You right, if floyd loses to anyone it would be from Haglar and Hearns. But still idk, against the taller fighter in Hearns Mayweather couldve still found a way. He wouldnt beat on him like Corrales, maybe as close as fight as ODH. And for Haglar even though i scored it for Hagler winning against SRL, If SRL beats Haglar then i think Mayweather wins too. Idk how SRL had the chin for it, but Mayweather's defense and stamina would have been much better than SRL's in that fight. Idk man idk, they are all in the same category for me where it can go either way.

We can go on about who woulda beat who all day, but I hate when people say Mayweather wouldn't have lasted back then, thats just a foolish thing to say. He's one of the fastest and best defensive fighters ever, all i see now a days are people calling out mayweather and tryna be like him in the ring. I dont understand the hate but sometimes its foolish to lecture people.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 29 2013, 05:43 PM) *
I'm pretty sure I said just that? huh.gif


in so many words...yes. i had to re-read that.
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 29 2013, 05:53 PM) *
He did more than enough to make him quit. He beat him mentally, he got mind fucked. Diddy style


stop listening to cosell and watch that fight. there was no mind fuck. that fight was close. leonard didn't do shit but clown. read his biography. listen to leonard, his brother and dundee (rip) give their account of how and why they were successful in the rematch. it's all bullshit. that fight wasn't on the level. duran was forced into it by his management who hung him out to dry. leonard knows he didn't fight or beat the best prepared roberto duran. when all things were even....duran beat him. leonard himself has said he couldn't beat duran on even terms.
daprofessor
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Jul 29 2013, 05:53 PM) *
There was no cause to defend any of that, at no point did I put Dejesus or especially Benitez down but both of them are not on the level with Floyd in overall skills and abilities and that is easy to see, as far as when Duran quit vs SRL then the fact that nothing (according to you) was really happening to him and he still quit then what does that really say about Duran??

As I recall that 2nd fight with SRL, Duran was getting taken to school early and you could tell that Ray wasn't fighting the fight that Roberto wanted him to fight like he did in their first outing which is why it totally frustrated and outclassed Duran and he quit because of sheer and utter frustration of not being fast enough to catch up to Sugar to lay a glove on him; Floyd was every bit as fast as SRL and if not, even faster at 130.

Still it's just a matter of opinion from Duran who admits that he hate Floyd so it's obvious why he'd make such a claim but just because he said it doesn't mean that it would've been so, I happen to see that Floyd has the skills, stamina, defense to deal with anyone in any era just as Leonard even said himself.

Here's what Sugar Ray Leonard had to say about Floyd Mayweather Jr and I'll stack this up against anything anyone here says that is negative or otherwise:
Quote:

"What impressed me about Mayweather was that he’s 36 and [had] been inactive for a more than a year. Very few fighters, even myself, could come back and have the mental and psychological capacity to stay focused like he did. He was brilliant. He was a sheer boxing technician. His performance made me look up and say, ‘Yes, he can compete with any era.’”


i've watched all of the careers....beginning to end....

i understand styles and how they mesh.

floyd has NEVER fought anyone on the level of duran, leonard, hearns or hagler.

the duran that beat leonard would give floyd all he could handle. i'd favor duran.

the leonard that beat hearns would beat floyd. no doubt in my mind.

hell...the hearns that loss to leonard would beat floyd.

floyd would never get in the same ring with a hagler at middleweight. now...i'm not saying he has too...or he should...but duran did and gave a great account of himself. duran for all his brilliance and short comings had king kong balls.

leonard is entitled to his opinion...and making a statement like "yes, he can compete with any era" is nice talk, but the truth is....floyd would never fight a marvin hagler at middleweight. there are no marvin haglers today. the closest thing we have is ggg and i would bet my left nut floyd would never fight the dude. those guys were cut from a different cloth.
truth
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 29 2013, 09:48 PM) *
i've watched all of the careers....beginning to end....

i understand styles and how they mesh.

floyd has NEVER fought anyone on the level of duran, leonard, hearns or hagler.

the duran that beat leonard would give floyd all he could handle. i'd favor duran.

the leonard that beat hearns would beat floyd. no doubt in my mind.

hell...the hearns that loss to leonard would beat floyd.

floyd would never get in the same ring with a hagler at middleweight. now...i'm not saying he has too...or he should...but duran did and gave a great account of himself. duran for all his brilliance and short comings had king kong balls.

leonard is entitled to his opinion...and making a statement like "yes, he can compete with any era" is nice talk, but the truth is....floyd would never fight a marvin hagler at middleweight. there are no marvin haglers today. the closest thing we have is ggg and i would bet my left nut floyd would never fight the dude. those guys were cut from a different cloth.

mrchitown
Opinion's are like assholes, we all know the rest. The one portion of what Duran said that I totally disagree with is that the Mayweather-DLH fight being a draw, what in the hell lol. He should've STFU as soon as he let that statement slip out his mouth.

There's unfortunately no way of telling how Mayweather Jr would have competed in that era, all we have is speculation but I believe that Mayweather dusts anyone from that era from 130-140, he would not retire undefeated if he fought at 147 and 154. I think he beats Duran at welter though, but that's just my take on it. Hearns and Hagler would have been the biggest threat to him..I really believe that ATG's can compete in any era
klonopinz
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 29 2013, 05:03 PM) *
welterweight floyd is not the best floyd. he'd be undersized against guys like hearns and leonard.

to floyds credit...he may have beaten a welterweight duran...but at lightweight...i think duran beats him.


i dont think so in my opinion, floyds reflexes are the best ive ever seen when he was at 130-140 in his mid 20s, i think he beats any 130-140 fighter from the 80s era.
klonopinz
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 29 2013, 09:48 PM) *
the duran that beat leonard would give floyd all he could handle. i'd favor duran.



i think that was leonards fight to lose. he chose to fight durans fight6 and it costs him. But ven then, its was a close fight and leonard almost won at durans own game. we all saw the bullshit he pulled in the 2nd fight though, that was just pure bullshit. but it showed wat was necessary, and that was if leonard wanted to, he could boix durans ass off and outclass him, although he did it in a disgraceful, disrespectful, bullshit clowning type of way, with no class, he shoed his class of skill.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 29 2013, 08:39 PM) *
stop listening to cosell and watch that fight. there was no mind fuck. that fight was close. leonard didn't do shit but clown. read his biography. listen to leonard, his brother and dundee (rip) give their account of how and why they were successful in the rematch. it's all bullshit. that fight wasn't on the level. duran was forced into it by his management who hung him out to dry. leonard knows he didn't fight or beat the best prepared roberto duran. when all things were even....duran beat him. leonard himself has said he couldn't beat duran on even terms.

I don't know who you think I'm listening to but I watched the fight. And although there was little action by todays standards srl had been sticking and moving cruising along frustrating duran to point of quitting. If a guy just quits, out of frustration without taking much punishments physically, in my book that's a mind fuck.

And even if your "forced" into a fight you wouldn't prepare for it?
Jovi
Ahh i never take into account the Weight classes when comparing the Marvelous four against Mayweather, that really would make a difference. Mayweather isn't even a middle weight so i doubt that Haglar would ever happen unless Haglar came down, only then may he prevail. Mayweather at Welterweight i think would out box and make SRL gas out, i wish i could see this one. The only way i see mayweather beating Hearns if he fought him how he fought corrales, alot of feints, jabs to the body. and left hooks. If Mayweather was fighthing these people id assume he'd work even harder in the gym so in my mind he has just alittle bit of extra power (since this is all theory anyway haha). Mayweather against Duran would be a good fight but i still favor it for Floyd, if he take the punch then he should be able to pull a decision with alot of boxing and alot of movement.

well Canelo is the closest thing that Mayweather will have to a haglar unless he fights GGG, and Pacquiao is the closest thing to Duran. We'll see how he stacks up against those.

Mayweather always ask this question- "So my X fights dont mean nothing until i face this guy?" or something to that magnitude unfortunately it kinda doesnt in the sense that a performer is only as good as his last performance. Unless Mayweather fights alot of these top guys calling him out that are future HOF themselves then there will always be doubt when comparing him to other ATG
Cshel86
Another throwback fighter, hating on a present fighter whose richer and not punch-drunk??? Say it aint so...
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 29 2013, 11:20 PM) *
I don't know who you think I'm listening to but I watched the fight. And although there was little action by todays standards srl had been sticking and moving cruising along frustrating duran to point of quitting. If a guy just quits, out of frustration without taking much punishments physically, in my book that's a mind fuck.

And even if your "forced" into a fight you wouldn't prepare for it?



man i've had this discussion more times than i care to remember. i'll just sum it up as best i can. mind you...i'm paraphrasing.

angelo dundee: we knew we couldn't beat this guy straight up....and he had trained in my gym on and off for almost 10yrs so i knew his habits after big wins...he'd put on a ton of weight celebrating the victory and would take his time fighting himself back into shape. the idea was to catch him off guard.

leonards brother: i was down in panama and i saw duran. he was close to 200lbs. i called my brother and told him to make the fight immediately!

leonard: we knew he would gain weight so the idea was to beat him before the fight even started.

carlos eleta(roberto duran's manager): i signed the contract for the fight immediately because i wanted to teach duran a lesson. he had gotten too big and wasn't listening to me.

when duran had trouble making weight...he tried to pull out but his manager told him that there would be legal action and consequences and that he had to fulfill the obligation. one thing that people fail to realize is that fighters for the most part, are not very educated people. duran in particular wasn't educated at all. he grew up in the streets. he was a peasant who roamed the streets barefoot. as a young boy he snuck onto carlos eletas property to steal mangos to eat. eleta was a rich, powerful and very respected man in panama. duran looked to this man like a father and he hung duran out to dry.

dundee, leonard and eleta all knew duran would have trouble making the weight and it would be his undoing. eleta himself said that it was embarrassment that caused duran to quit. whatever the case....he should have never been in the ring with leonard for that fight. say what you want about the "victory" but in my eyes....especially after hearing it from dundee and leonard themselves....it's not a legit win to me. duran said he wasn't feeling it and he had stomach cramps. he said he wasn't going to give leonard the satisfaction of having a legit win over him so he quit and thought he'd get him in the rubber match. that didn't happen until 8 or 9 yrs later. he was an old man by the time they had the rubber match. leonard stayed on his bike the whole time. i can't even call it boxing because it looked like flat out camacho style running. in the last round when he decided to sit down and trade duran landed a shot that busted leonard up so bad it required 50 stitches to close. leonard himself has said he could NOT beat duran on equal terms.

don't take my word on any of this...do the research yourself. hbo's legendary nights, roberto duran's biography and interviews i've seen and read over the years are my sources.
daprofessor
floyd has never fought anyone on the level of leonard, hearns, hagler or duran.

i challenge you all to prove that statement wrong. a fighter is only as good as his best win. period.
Cshel86
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 30 2013, 02:10 PM) *
floyd has never fought anyone on the level of leonard, hearns, hagler or duran.

i challenge you all to prove that statement wrong. a fighter is only as good as his best win. period.

Name some fighters of this era, that are even on the level of Hearns, Leonard, Hagler, or Duran. That's the problem...we're too busy stuck in old eras and trying to compare past ones to current ones.

Hell, we have B-level fighters who can't even beat other B-level fighters, but they want to fight A-level fighters for big paydays...so there's your answer as far as comparisons are concerned.

Hell, we have old school cats who used to actually have to TALK to women back in the days, get their phone numbers, call the house phone, and work for some ass. Nowadays, we have cell phones used for texting, and social networks are making it easier for even the biggest square to get some ass.

How do you think pimps feel? They used to have to do some real talking and leg work to build a prostitute to sell her body. Nowadays, we have the internet, and pimping is doing just fine (via internet). Pimps are rarely even needed for a woman to sell her body and make money.

It's not a knock against old school fighters who had to fight OFTEN because that's all they ever were...fighters. It was hell being champion back in the day, because there limited belts, hell, maybe just one per division (depending on the era). Everybody's some type of champion nowadays, so we cant blame it on Floyd for not fighting throwback-style, because there really aren't any.

Things have just become more convenient nowadays, and Floyd's opponents not being able to match him style-wise or fight on an A-level, is convenient for somebody out there. Thankfully, Floyd wasn't big enough to fight the likes of Vernon Forrest or Winky Wright, though he did call out Shane and Oscar around that time. Surely, he couldn't have been that serious.
Jovi
I agree with Cshel, Daprofessor you can't really hold that against Floyd because Who is there to compare against the likes of Marvelous four? But i also agree that Mayweather hasn't fought someone on his level like that, but still i cant hold it against him because who is on Mayweather's level?

The only 2 i have are Canelo/Haglar and Pacquiao/Duran. And i would say GGG but i really do Mayweather moves up to fight him but hey i could be wrong about that. Mayweather is the closest to SRL. I wouldve compared Paul williams to leonard but i cant say that with a serious face haha.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Jovi @ Jul 30 2013, 03:02 PM) *
I agree with Cshel, Daprofessor you can't really hold that against Floyd because Who is there to compare against the likes of Marvelous four? But i also agree that Mayweather hasn't fought someone on his level like that, but still i cant hold it against him because who is on Mayweather's level?

The only 2 i have are Canelo/Haglar and Pacquiao/Duran. And i would say GGG but i really do Mayweather moves up to fight him but hey i could be wrong about that. Mayweather is the closest to SRL. I wouldve compared Paul williams to leonard but i cant say that with a serious face haha.


duran had one loss(that he avenged) in 70 fights when he fought an undefeated leonard.

leonard had one loss(that he avenged) when he beat an undefeated hearns

hearns had one loss when he fought hagler who was 60-2.

floyd had opportunities to beat high level opposition and the perfect time. prime example....cotto. had floyd fought cotto when he was undefeated, that would have been a high level (roberto duran) win for him. instead, he acted like he didn't know who cotto was and retired. he could have fought paul williams and that would have been his tommy hearns.

i never thought pac was ever a threat to floyd. i think people would be shocked at how easily he beats pac...even at the height of pacs reign.

canelo is no hagler. pac is definitely no duran.
checkleft
QUOTE (Jovi @ Jul 30 2013, 02:02 PM) *
I agree with Cshel, Daprofessor you can't really hold that against Floyd because Who is there to compare against the likes of Marvelous four? But i also agree that Mayweather hasn't fought someone on his level like that, but still i cant hold it against him because who is on Mayweather's level?

The only 2 i have are Canelo/Haglar and Pacquiao/Duran. And i would say GGG but i really do Mayweather moves up to fight him but hey i could be wrong about that. Mayweather is the closest to SRL. I wouldve compared Paul williams to leonard but i cant say that with a serious face haha.


What? Lol
I hope your not comparing canelo and haglar Haha
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 30 2013, 02:22 PM) *
duran had one loss(that he avenged) in 70 fights when he fought an undefeated leonard.

leonard had one loss(that he avenged) when he beat an undefeated hearns

hearns had one loss when he fought hagler who was 60-2.

floyd had opportunities to beat high level opposition and the perfect time. prime example....cotto. had floyd fought cotto when he was undefeated, that would have been a high level (roberto duran) win for him. instead, he acted like he didn't know who cotto was and retired. he could have fought paul williams and that would have been his tommy hearns.

i never thought pac was ever a threat to floyd. i think people would be shocked at how easily he beats pac...even at the height of pacs reign.

canelo is no hagler. pac is definitely no duran.

the cotto fight couldn't have happened because of promotional disputes, you know this professor. When they were trying to put Floyd against cotto under TR they gave Floyd Henry as a measuring stick and he got demolished. Then they kept cotto away from Floyd

Pwill could be compared to tommy size wise but Paul never fought tall he always got sucked into brawling

I would have loved to see how a guy like pwill would have turned out with a trainer like Emmanuel who was in the business of training tall linky fighters
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 30 2013, 03:29 PM) *
What? Lol
I hope your not comparing canelo and haglar Haha

the cotto fight couldn't have happened because of promotional disputes, you know this professor. When they were trying to put Floyd against cotto under TR they gave Floyd Henry as a measuring stick and he got demolished. Then they kept cotto away from Floyd

Pwill could be compared to tommy size wise but Paul never fought tall he always got sucked into brawling


you can't compare brusselles to cotto. that dude was no where near the level of cotto.

paul had a serious workrate that would have presented problems for floyd and when he did fight tall, you saw what he did to quintana in the rematch.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jul 30 2013, 10:15 AM) *
Name some fighters of this era, that are even on the level of Hearns, Leonard, Hagler, or Duran. That's the problem...we're too busy stuck in old eras and trying to compare past ones to current ones.

Hell, we have B-level fighters who can't even beat other B-level fighters, but they want to fight A-level fighters for big paydays...so there's your answer as far as comparisons are concerned.

Hell, we have old school cats who used to actually have to TALK to women back in the days, get their phone numbers, call the house phone, and work for some ass. Nowadays, we have cell phones used for texting, and social networks are making it easier for even the biggest square to get some ass.

How do you think pimps feel? They used to have to do some real talking and leg work to build a prostitute to sell her body. Nowadays, we have the internet, and pimping is doing just fine (via internet). Pimps are rarely even needed for a woman to sell her body and make money.

It's not a knock against old school fighters who had to fight OFTEN because that's all they ever were...fighters. It was hell being champion back in the day, because there limited belts, hell, maybe just one per division (depending on the era). Everybody's some type of champion nowadays, so we cant blame it on Floyd for not fighting throwback-style, because there really aren't any.

Things have just become more convenient nowadays, and Floyd's opponents not being able to match him style-wise or fight on an A-level, is convenient for somebody out there. Thankfully, Floyd wasn't big enough to fight the likes of Vernon Forrest or Winky Wright, though he did call out Shane and Oscar around that time. Surely, he couldn't have been that serious.

^^^ Agreed. We can't punish Floyd for the level of competition that is not in this era of fighters, plus fighters are different from the 70s and 80s. It really isn't fair.
Thebruntje
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 30 2013, 09:22 PM) *
duran had one loss(that he avenged) in 70 fights when he fought an undefeated leonard.

leonard had one loss(that he avenged) when he beat an undefeated hearns

hearns had one loss when he fought hagler who was 60-2.

floyd had opportunities to beat high level opposition and the perfect time. prime example....cotto. had floyd fought cotto when he was undefeated, that would have been a high level (roberto duran) win for him. instead, he acted like he didn't know who cotto was and retired. he could have fought paul williams and that would have been his tommy hearns.

i never thought pac was ever a threat to floyd. i think people would be shocked at how easily he beats pac...even at the height of pacs reign.

canelo is no hagler. pac is definitely no duran.


I think you should stop overrating the old school guys and apply the same standaards you apply on today's fighters! Duran was a very undisciplined guy, always going up and down in weight, and to be honest he lost most of his big fights just like De la Hoya!! Duran quit against Leonard in their second fight, got brutally knocked out by Hearns, lost decisions against Benitez and Hagler! People shit on Floyd all the time for having retired and fighting once a year, but at the same time they praise Ray Leonard while he retired way more than Floyd, only had 36 fights, ducked Aaron Pryor and admitted he only wanted to fight Hagler after he realised Hagler had lost a step in the Mugabi fight !!! Hagler was a great dominant champion but at the same time people forget he never moved up in weight and his biggest victories were against guys that were naturally smaller than him! When did Hagler fight a guy that would outweigh by 15 to 20 ibs on fight? Never!! Yet people keep shitting on Floyd for supposedly not challenging himself ! Pure hypocrisy!!!
So according to you had Floyd fought Cotto before the first Margarito fight, that would have been his " Duran" but at the same time you say Pac is nothing like Duran! In my humble opinion even with his technical flaws there is no doubt in my mind that Pac is a better fighter than Cotto! Are seriously comparing Hearns to Paul Williams??? Well i think you're contradicting yourself again because besides height Paul Williams and Hearns are two completely different fighters, Paul Williams was just a very tall guy for a welterweight, a volume puncher that would punches in bunches but at the same time would get caught a thousand times with the same punch !! Just ask Martinez LMAO !! Martinez was throwing the straight left all night in their first fight, in their second fights he keeps doing the same and Paul Williams still wasn't able to adjust ! Now you want me to believe he would have the equivalent of a Thomas Hearns? Absolutely not! Let's not forget Hearns himself had his flaws as well ! Hearns was a good boxer with a lethal right hand but if it wasn't for his big size advantage at welterweight he wouldn't have as dominant as he was!! Once he moved up in weight he got knocked out by a limited fighter like Barkley!
People should stop romanticizing the past era and realise that boxing just like every other sport has evolved!
bnoles4life
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 29 2013, 07:52 PM) *
Idk about the booze stuff but I totally agree with the infatuation about the past

Exactly. Former athletes aren't always the best judges of skill



Cue Michael Jordan's resume as owner of the Charlotte Bobcats.
leonthegee
When did Duran become a great fighter? Go watch the Hearns fight. What the hell was he thinking trying to get in a slugfest with Tommy? What the hell was he working on in training camp? Great fighters dont go out half cocked like that.
Dolimite
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Jul 30 2013, 12:10 PM) *
When did Duran become a great fighter? Go watch the Hearns fight. What the hell was he thinking trying to get in a slugfest with Tommy? What the hell was he working on in training camp? Great fighters dont go out half cocked like that.

He was depending on those hands of stone! Like other fighters rely so much on one aspect of their skills.
leonthegee
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jul 30 2013, 01:14 PM) *
He was depending on those hands of stone! Like other fighters rely so much on one aspect of their skills.


So u believe his gameplan was go out there and slug it out with Hearns? Then hes dumber than I thought.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 30 2013, 02:32 PM) *
you can't compare brusselles to cotto. that dude was no where near the level of cotto.

paul had a serious workrate that would have presented problems for floyd and when he did fight tall, you saw what he did to quintana in the rematch.

I know I wouldn't compare cotto with Henry but do you think arum wouldn't? This is the same cotto that nearly got put on queer street by corley before a questionable stoppage. You honestly don't think a better fighter in Floyd wouldn't take advantage of a very raw cotto at that time? Cotto peaked to me during the Mosley fight. That would have been the best time for him to catch Floyd and.by that time it was Damn near impossible because arum and Floyd were at each others throats

I did watch the rematch, but I also saw the first fight and know quintanas capabilities and that should have never happened in the first fight but Paul is stubborn. Watch the martinez fights and the Lara fights, no ability to adjust and always looking to slug instead of setting things up.
But that's what made him a crowd pleaser

QUOTE (bnoles4life @ Jul 30 2013, 03:09 PM) *
Cue Michael Jordan's resume as owner of the Charlotte Bobcats.

Pretty much Haha.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Thebruntje @ Jul 30 2013, 04:04 PM) *
I think you should stop overrating the old school guys and apply the same standaards you apply on today's fighters! Duran was a very undisciplined guy, always going up and down in weight, and to be honest he lost most of his big fights just like De la Hoya!! Duran quit against Leonard in their second fight, got brutally knocked out by Hearns, lost decisions against Benitez and Hagler! People shit on Floyd all the time for having retired and fighting once a year, but at the same time they praise Ray Leonard while he retired way more than Floyd, only had 36 fights, ducked Aaron Pryor and admitted he only wanted to fight Hagler after he realised Hagler had lost a step in the Mugabi fight !!! Hagler was a great dominant champion but at the same time people forget he never moved up in weight and his biggest victories were against guys that were naturally smaller than him! When did Hagler fight a guy that would outweigh by 15 to 20 ibs on fight? Never!! Yet people keep shitting on Floyd for supposedly not challenging himself ! Pure hypocrisy!!!
So according to you had Floyd fought Cotto before the first Margarito fight, that would have been his " Duran" but at the same time you say Pac is nothing like Duran! In my humble opinion even with his technical flaws there is no doubt in my mind that Pac is a better fighter than Cotto! Are seriously comparing Hearns to Paul Williams??? Well i think you're contradicting yourself again because besides height Paul Williams and Hearns are two completely different fighters, Paul Williams was just a very tall guy for a welterweight, a volume puncher that would punches in bunches but at the same time would get caught a thousand times with the same punch !! Just ask Martinez LMAO !! Martinez was throwing the straight left all night in their first fight, in their second fights he keeps doing the same and Paul Williams still wasn't able to adjust ! Now you want me to believe he would have the equivalent of a Thomas Hearns? Absolutely not! Let's not forget Hearns himself had his flaws as well ! Hearns was a good boxer with a lethal right hand but if it wasn't for his big size advantage at welterweight he wouldn't have as dominant as he was!! Once he moved up in weight he got knocked out by a limited fighter like Barkley!
People should stop romanticizing the past era and realise that boxing just like every other sport has evolved!


i'm not suggesting they were the equivalents. i'm saying that he had undefeated opposition that he could have faced to stake his claim at greatness...or to at least be in the conversation with the fab 4.

you obviously weren't around to witness what is arguably one of the best eras in the history of boxing, otherwise you wouldn't be spewing this nonsense.

but again....i challenge you and everyone else here....who has floyd beaten that is remotely close to any of the fab 4?

golovkin is no hagler. martinez isn't either. floyd would NEVER fight anyone like either of them.

listen...if i go to a local grade school and beat the shit out of all the little kids there....no one is going to sing my praises. same thing applies here. floyds got some good wins throughout his career. he's done what he's supposed to against the opposition that he chose to face. he's never taken on an opponent that no one gave him a chance to beat. great fighters accomplish the impossible.

duran dominated at lightweight for almost 10yrs before he jumped two weight classes to beat leonard. he also won titles at 154 and 160. he contended at 168. he is the best of my lifetime.

hagler dominated at 160 and beat some real killers. his loss to leonard was a respectable one.

hearns started at 147 and won titles in 6 different weight divisions. there were no bullshit catchweights involved like pac's smoke and mirrors career.

leonard beat benitez, duran, hearns and hagler. sure his career was short....but he gets a pass with opposition like that. there's no way in hell floyd gets through those 5 without a loss.

back in those days...fighters did NOT make bullshit excuses not to face each other. making a comment like "take the tests" would have got you laughed out of the ring. making a comment like "i have to think about my health...blah,blah,blah" also wouldn't have gone over well. don't get me wrong....i think floyd is an excellent fighter. he's definitely the best of his era or at least the last 20 yrs....but he's NOT on the level of the fab 4. you could make the case that he's not on the level of julio cesar chavez or pernell whitaker.

floyd has 4 fights to seal his legacy after canelo. let's be honest....canelo is NOT on floyds level. anyone who knows anything about boxing will tell you the kid is not going to beat floyd. if he does happen to beat floyd...then it's further proof of what i'm saying....floyd doesn't measure up. this isn't hate. it's truth.


daprofessor
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Jul 30 2013, 04:10 PM) *
When did Duran become a great fighter? Go watch the Hearns fight. What the hell was he thinking trying to get in a slugfest with Tommy? What the hell was he working on in training camp? Great fighters dont go out half cocked like that.


are you serious?
daprofessor
QUOTE (checkleft @ Jul 30 2013, 04:47 PM) *
I know I wouldn't compare cotto with Henry but do you think arum wouldn't? This is the same cotto that nearly got put on queer street by corley before a questionable stoppage. You honestly don't think a better fighter in Floyd wouldn't take advantage of a very raw cotto at that time? Cotto peaked to me during the Mosley fight. That would have been the best time for him to catch Floyd and.by that time it was Damn near impossible because arum and Floyd were at each others throats

I did watch the rematch, but I also saw the first fight and know quintanas capabilities and that should have never happened in the first fight but Paul is stubborn. Watch the martinez fights and the Lara fights, no ability to adjust and always looking to slug instead of setting things up.
But that's what made him a crowd pleaser


Pretty much Haha.


williams had the flu when he fought quintana. he made no excuses and gave quintana all the credit. the rematch happened the way it was supposed to.

as for the martinez and lara fights....let's be honest....no one wanted to fight either of those guys when paul was fighting them. both of those guys are outstanding fighters who are naturally bigger more athletic men. there's no shame in losing to either.

would floyd fight the martinez that williams did?

how about lara?

i don't think so.
Thebruntje
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 30 2013, 10:53 PM) *
i'm not suggesting they were the equivalents. i'm saying that he had undefeated opposition that he could have faced to stake his claim at greatness...or to at least be in the conversation with the fab 4.

you obviously weren't around to witness what is arguably one of the best eras in the history of boxing, otherwise you wouldn't be spewing this nonsense.

but again....i challenge you and everyone else here....who has floyd beaten that is remotely close to any of the fab 4?

golovkin is no hagler. martinez isn't either. floyd would NEVER fight anyone like either of them.

listen...if i go to a local grade school and beat the shit out of all the little kids there....no one is going to sing my praises. same thing applies here. floyds got some good wins throughout his career. he's done what he's supposed to against the opposition that he chose to face. he's never taken on an opponent that no one gave him a chance to beat. great fighters accomplish the impossible.

duran dominated at lightweight for almost 10yrs before he jumped two weight classes to beat leonard. he also won titles at 154 and 160. he contended at 168. he is the best of my lifetime.

hagler dominated at 160 and beat some real killers. his loss to leonard was a respectable one.

hearns started at 147 and won titles in 6 different weight divisions. there were no bullshit catchweights involved like pac's smoke and mirrors career.

leonard beat benitez, duran, hearns and hagler. sure his career was short....but he gets a pass with opposition like that. there's no way in hell floyd gets through those 5 without a loss.

back in those days...fighters did NOT make bullshit excuses not to face each other. making a comment like "take the tests" would have got you laughed out of the ring. making a comment like "i have to think about my health...blah,blah,blah" also wouldn't have gone over well. don't get me wrong....i think floyd is an excellent fighter. he's definitely the best of his era or at least the last 20 yrs....but he's NOT on the level of the fab 4. you could make the case that he's not on the level of julio cesar chavez or pernell whitaker.

floyd has 4 fights to seal his legacy after canelo. let's be honest....canelo is NOT on floyds level. anyone who knows anything about boxing will tell you the kid is not going to beat floyd. if he does happen to beat floyd...then it's further proof of what i'm saying....floyd doesn't measure up. this isn't hate. it's truth.




Floyd doesn't have beat no one close to the so called fab 4 because he fights in another era! While Floyd never fought anyone like them, they also never faced someone like Floyd! All i stated were facts ! I never said Hagler didn't dominate 160 i just said that according to today's standaards he wouldn't be so great as he supposedly is because he never moved up to higher weight classes and never faced guys who were naturally bigger than him! Duran, Leonard, Hearns all of them moved up in weight and fought in different weight classes but Hagler didn't! Do you really Hagler's style would have done against a guy that physically stronger than him and can take his shots? Absolutely not ! I'm not discrediting Hagler i'm just stating facts!
The point i wanted to make was about applying the same on old school fighters that we apply on the younger fighters! If fighter nowadays blows up in weight between fights and quits during a fight, the boxing community will shit on him, call him a quiter... Imagine if Floyd would ever pull a " no mas " like Duran did, you would be shitting on Floyd even more and using it as argument to defend your opinion on old school fighters ! You criticise Floyd for having retired once, but at the same time you say i'm spewing non sense because i said that Ray Leonard retired way more times than Floyd, ducked Aaron Pryor, and waited years to fight Hagler!! I didn't make this up! You probably should this better than me! Aaron Pryor begged for fight against Leonard and never got one ! You can't deny it, it is well documented,you can find it on youtube so everything i said was based on facts!
leonthegee
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 30 2013, 01:54 PM) *
are you serious?


Duran couldve been great. Hes damn good but he was a loser out of the ring. It obviously affected him in the ring. Look at his body when he fought Leonard, Hagler, then Hearns. Sloppy ass drunk.
daprofessor
QUOTE (Thebruntje @ Jul 30 2013, 05:18 PM) *
Floyd doesn't have beat no one close to the so called fab 4 because he fights in another era! While Floyd never fought anyone like them, they also never faced someone like Floyd! All i stated were facts ! I never said Hagler didn't dominate 160 i just said that according to today's standaards he wouldn't be so great as he supposedly is because he never moved up to higher weight classes and never faced guys who were naturally bigger than him! Duran, Leonard, Hearns all of them moved up in weight and fought in different weight classes but Hagler didn't! Do you really Hagler's style would have done against a guy that physically stronger than him and can take his shots? Absolutely not ! I'm not discrediting Hagler i'm just stating facts!
The point i wanted to make was about applying the same on old school fighters that we apply on the younger fighters! If fighter nowadays blows up in weight between fights and quits during a fight, the boxing community will shit on him, call him a quiter... Imagine if Floyd would ever pull a " no mas " like Duran did, you would be shitting on Floyd even more and using it as argument to defend your opinion on old school fighters ! You criticise Floyd for having retired once, but at the same time you say i'm spewing non sense because i said that Ray Leonard retired way more times than Floyd, ducked Aaron Pryor, and waited years to fight Hagler!! I didn't make this up! You probably should this better than me! Aaron Pryor begged for fight against Leonard and never got one ! You can't deny it, it is well documented,you can find it on youtube so everything i said was based on facts!


i stopped reading at this point. i don't want to say you don't know what the fuck you're talking about....that would just be rude. i'll just agree to disagree.
daprofessor
QUOTE (leonthegee @ Jul 30 2013, 06:16 PM) *
Duran couldve been great. Hes damn good but he was a loser out of the ring. It obviously affected him in the ring. Look at his body when he fought Leonard, Hagler, then Hearns. Sloppy ass drunk.


my previous post applies to you too. smh. go learn about boxing and it's history before you engage me in conversation about the sport. or you can learn something by reading my previous posts on the subject. i'm bowing out of this.
checkleft
QUOTE (daprofessor @ Jul 30 2013, 03:59 PM) *
williams had the flu when he fought quintana. he made no excuses and gave quintana all the credit. the rematch happened the way it was supposed to.

as for the martinez and lara fights....let's be honest....no one wanted to fight either of those guys when paul was fighting them. both of those guys are outstanding fighters who are naturally bigger more athletic men. there's no shame in losing to either.

would floyd fight the martinez that williams did?

how about lara?

i don't think so.

If Paul didn't make any excuses than why are you making them for him?

I really don't know about being more athletic than Lara but few are more athletic than Martinez nowadays

And I never said anything about Floyd fighting them, I agreed with you about him not taking the Williams fight. But people acting like that isn't a winnable fight for Floyd are mistaken. He definitely would have had trouble but he also definitely had a chance to win
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