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BoxingStill#1
I try not to be bias as a fan of Floyed, with that I said I do feel he will win in two weeks.

But make no mistake, there is real danger in front of him. I give Canelo a real chance in this fight and not just a punchers chance.

As the fight draws closer Im starting to feel a win in Canelo's favor would be better for the sport. Not only would it generate huge interest in a rematch but also reshape the current landscape.

Floyed is always prepared so a loss wouldn't be fluke, and Canelo should get all the credit he would deserve. And Ipersonally wouldn't be too upset being its a young skilled opponent as opposed to some bum with a hard shot.

This isn't a tactical thread, but on the business side of things what would be better for the sport? Not just with this fight but any upcoming fight...

Marquez winning over Bradley (which I feel he will)

Matthyse over Garcia...

Im happy these fights are taking place because there is a real chance for the sport to go in a different direction

emd01
I dont think any of the fighters winning or losing would help or hurt the sport. Now, Floyd losing might make things more interesting but from a business standpoint win, lose or draw all involved win.
BoxingStill#1
QUOTE (emd01 @ Aug 31 2013, 12:12 AM) *
I dont think any of the fighters winning or losing would help or hurt the sport. Now, Floyd losing might make things more interesting but from a business standpoint win, lose or draw all involved win.


A win over Floyed, Garcia, Bradley changes things. I don't mean help or hurt because its boxing. This is why we watch it, anything can happen.

For example, when Pac was knocked out by Marquez did that not change peoples opinion on a fight with Floyed? Personally it didn't for me because I still feel Pac would have a good shot with Floyed because hes never seen anyone like Pac in front of him. But the overall public and boxing world kinda let the idea of them fighting go to back of their minds. But it was good for the sport. We wouldnt likely be seeing an exciting fight with Bradley. Shit for all we know Marquez get a shot at the winner of Canelo Floyed. (minus Bob Arum).

Point is it changed things and opened up a whole new array of possible matches...agreed?

Jovi
I can't agree that it would be good if Floyd loss to Canelo. This may be bias because im a Floyd fan but im more of a fan of the sport as a whole. But floyd losing to canelo would just prove that he wasn't as skilled or isn't as great as he claims to be. Which i dont believe, i believe he is one of the most skilled fighters if not the best now when it comes to being a complete fighter. Canelo is good is areas but he also lacks in others which should be capitalized on by Floyd to show his superiority rather than Canelo getting the best of Floyd. Floyd has been boxing longer than Canelo has been alive! so if he really is the best fighter than he should beat Canelo, he should find a way like he always does.

I'm saying this because i want him to retire undefeated, after beating Canelo then taking on Martinez, Matthysse, Pacquiao, Bradley or Khan. Just fights that will add to his legacy, If anyone is beating floyd then i would mention GGG but for countless reasons i dont think the fight would happen but i could be wrong and if that fight did happen, depending on what weight and how floyd is feeling it would be a toss up. But i believe the last fights of his career will be more defining to his legacy, each fight is more important than all before it. If he really wants to stand out from previous greats he should retire after beating those who will cement his case.

Canelo losing i think actually makes it more interesting because then he can fight anyone! might actually move up too. Canelo has more choices than Floyd. still very young and is getting better. If floyd were to lose then he'd probably take easier fights compared to the bigger money/challenging fights ahead of him.

Pacquiao lost because he was supposed to, the way he fights just foreshadowed that due to his wildness he would be knocked out by someone would outbox him out of his shoes. Though he has a fast strong offense, defense is what keeps you alive in the ring, and he lacks it. I thought it would be Mayweather first to knock him out, but still fighting him and knocking him out there shouldn't be excuses since he wont be as bloody and it wont take him 4 fights to do it.

Marquez said himself he doesnt want any part of floyd again, Arum probably makes him fight pacquiao again though. If he doesnt fight pacquiao then I see top rank not letting him fight anyone or just setting him up to lose.......And Matthysse shouldnt get a ticket to floyd after Garcia, he should beat Garcia and then beat broner too and make it even more epic. The Mayweather/Matthysse fight would be much bigger this way.
sduck
It'd probably be better if Canelo won so there'd be a new young P4P PPV Champion running the game.

Also, Bradley beating Marquez would probably be better than the other way around, because it gives more respect to the young champ who was knocked under the bus because of his controversial fight with Pacquiao (which I felt he actually won). Beating Marquez is beating the guy that always one-upped Pacquiao to the eyes of the majority, who finally sealed the deal with a KO. Beating the guy that beat Pacquiao proves that Bradley is worthy of an opponent and can possibly get a rematch with Pacquiao to cease all doubt about the controversy.

I don't understand why people think Matthysse should beat Garcia, Matthysse lost to Devon Alexander and Zab Judah, while Danny Garcia blew through Judah and some other big names, and is an undefeated champion. Danny would have a brighter future of the two, given their records and charisma.

QUOTE (Jovi @ Aug 31 2013, 03:02 AM) *
I can't agree that it would be good if Floyd loss to Canelo. This may be bias because im a Floyd fan but im more of a fan of the sport as a whole. But floyd losing to canelo would just prove that he wasn't as skilled or isn't as great as he claims to be. Which i dont believe, i believe he is one of the most skilled fighters if not the best now when it comes to being a complete fighter. Canelo is good is areas but he also lacks in others which should be capitalized on by Floyd to show his superiority rather than Canelo getting the best of Floyd. Floyd has been boxing longer than Canelo has been alive! so if he really is the best fighter than he should beat Canelo, he should find a way like he always does.

I'm saying this because i want him to retire undefeated, after beating Canelo then taking on Martinez, Matthysse, Pacquiao, Bradley or Khan. Just fights that will add to his legacy, If anyone is beating floyd then i would mention GGG but for countless reasons i dont think the fight would happen but i could be wrong and if that fight did happen, depending on what weight and how floyd is feeling it would be a toss up. But i believe the last fights of his career will be more defining to his legacy, each fight is more important than all before it. If he really wants to stand out from previous greats he should retire after beating those who will cement his case.

Canelo losing i think actually makes it more interesting because then he can fight anyone! might actually move up too. Canelo has more choices than Floyd. still very young and is getting better. If floyd were to lose then he'd probably take easier fights compared to the bigger money/challenging fights ahead of him.

Pacquiao lost because he was supposed to, the way he fights just foreshadowed that due to his wildness he would be knocked out by someone would outbox him out of his shoes. Though he has a fast strong offense, defense is what keeps you alive in the ring, and he lacks it. I thought it would be Mayweather first to knock him out, but still fighting him and knocking him out there shouldn't be excuses since he wont be as bloody and it wont take him 4 fights to do it.

Marquez said himself he doesnt want any part of floyd again, Arum probably makes him fight pacquiao again though. If he doesnt fight pacquiao then I see top rank not letting him fight anyone or just setting him up to lose.......And Matthysse shouldnt get a ticket to floyd after Garcia, he should beat Garcia and then beat broner too and make it even more epic. The Mayweather/Matthysse fight would be much bigger this way.

Maybe to shill reporters or idiotic fans. The guy is far from his prime and is very close to retirement.
The Original MrFactor
Either or... i think its better for Goldenboy and Showtime if Canelo wins. Huge upside and longevity.
Jack 1000
QUOTE
Also, Bradley beating Marquez would probably be better than the other way around, because it gives more respect to the young champ who was knocked under the bus because of his controversial fight with Pacquiao (which I felt he actually won).


Hi Sduck,

A little unclear, are you saying you thought Bradley beat Pacquiao or you agree with the overwhelming majority that Pacquiao beat Bradley?

It would be good if Canelo wins to bring some fresh new blood to the sport. How would Floyd's ego handle his first loss? But it would NOT be so good for Canelo to win controversially. If Floyd wins, what's left? Forget Pacquiao. That fight will never happen if Arum is involved, and Pacquiao would have to in my view beat Rios big and rematch Bradley winning big. Floyd would also have to look good against Alvarez and keep active.

Jack
mgrover
Two sides to the coin really, Floyd loses and passes a torch to a very beatable fighter, and he's beat, and then basically the pie gets split up and cut up, and all this PPV nonsense can stop. Or Floyd wins and continues to make himself a fuckton of money for 3 more fights, were he retires and the numbers he generates are no longer really generated for boxing anymore, unless Pac maybe does it? I think he needs to lose for the sake of boxing, call it stupid but if he loses that pie is split, and can be split more and more. But the issue is the pie may not be split and chunks of it may just disappear. No I don't hate Floyd.
Jovi
Yeah he does force it with the ppv, but i respect it because atleast he's his own buisness man. He may say other things to the media for obvious reasons of them tryna make him look bad anyway. But all the hardwork cant just go away because he's "past his prime" even though his body may not feel so young, if you take care of your body it should take care of you too. Past greats when they fight past their primes it is a significant difference to how good they once were (Ali,SRL)...But to Mayweather's credit i dont think they were taking care of their body as much as well as he was.

Matthysse didnt get beat by either judah or Alexander. He wasn't outboxed, he knocked both of them down. When i scored the fights i had them both for matthysse but theres blown calls all the time in boxing especially when matthysse wasnt a big name yet. He lost but it wasnt because Judah or Alexander were better than him, it was because of the suspicious boxing politics. REwatch the fights and scored them.

I want bradley to win so he can cut away from Top rank and fight Mayweather. Marquez is going to retire soon........This is all just opinion, just like talking boxing with people who know shit about boxing
checkleft
QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 31 2013, 12:45 PM) *
Two sides to the coin really, Floyd loses and passes a torch to a very beatable fighter, and he's beat, and then basically the pie gets split up and cut up, and all this PPV nonsense can stop. Or Floyd wins and continues to make himself a fuckton of money for 3 more fights, were he retires and the numbers he generates are no longer really generated for boxing anymore, unless Pac maybe does it? I think he needs to lose for the sake of boxing, call it stupid but if he loses that pie is split, and can be split more and more. But the issue is the pie may not be split and chunks of it may just disappear. No I don't hate Floyd.

Very good assessment mg. I don't think I disagree at all with this post
checkleft
QUOTE (Jovi @ Aug 31 2013, 03:18 PM) *
Yeah he does force it with the ppv, but i respect it because atleast he's his own buisness man. He may say other things to the media for obvious reasons of them tryna make him look bad anyway. But all the hardwork cant just go away because he's "past his prime" even though his body may not feel so young, if you take care of your body it should take care of you too. Past greats when they fight past their primes it is a significant difference to how good they once were (Ali,SRL)...But to Mayweather's credit i dont think they were taking care of their body as much as well as he was.

Matthysse didnt get beat by either judah or Alexander. He wasn't outboxed, he knocked both of them down. When i scored the fights i had them both for matthysse but theres blown calls all the time in boxing especially when matthysse wasnt a big name yet. He lost but it wasnt because Judah or Alexander were better than him, it was because of the suspicious boxing politics. REwatch the fights and scored them.

I want bradley to win so he can cut away from Top rank and fight Mayweather. Marquez is going to retire soon........This is all just opinion, just like talking boxing with people who know shit about boxing

I agree.

And I scored the devon and Judah fights both for Lucas also but what can you do
Dolimite
It would be great for GB and Showtime. They stand to gain the most out of it. Outside of Mexicans, people honestly have no idea who Saul is. They know who Mayweather is. If the top dog loses will people still be interested in boxing? That 0 is what keeps Floyd important and I doubt if he will take one for boxing, that means keeping money from his account in the long run. That ain't going to happen. And no way is he going to let Oscar smile and be happy in his demise, Floyd isn't a stupid dude.

Plus, if Saul wins, that means he has to fight top competition from here on out.
mgrover
Also Floyd his own businessman? Doubtful, just a puppet of Al Haymon
sduck
QUOTE (Jack 1000 @ Aug 31 2013, 09:05 AM) *
Hi Sduck,

A little unclear, are you saying you thought Bradley beat Pacquiao or you agree with the overwhelming majority that Pacquiao beat Bradley?

It would be good if Canelo wins to bring some fresh new blood to the sport. How would Floyd's ego handle his first loss? But it would NOT be so good for Canelo to win controversially. If Floyd wins, what's left? Forget Pacquiao. That fight will never happen if Arum is involved, and Pacquiao would have to in my view beat Rios big and rematch Bradley winning big. Floyd would also have to look good against Alvarez and keep active.

Jack

I had Bradley winning in a very close fight. I know that's not how popular opinion saw it, but I score fights without as much bias as possible. I thought Bradley had control of the more rounds, Pacquiao throwing flurries at the end of rounds doesn't do enough to win a round imo, you have to control the majority of the round to win it.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 31 2013, 01:45 PM) *
Two sides to the coin really, Floyd loses and passes a torch to a very beatable fighter, and he's beat, and then basically the pie gets split up and cut up, and all this PPV nonsense can stop. Or Floyd wins and continues to make himself a fuckton of money for 3 more fights, were he retires and the numbers he generates are no longer really generated for boxing anymore, unless Pac maybe does it? I think he needs to lose for the sake of boxing, call it stupid but if he loses that pie is split, and can be split more and more. But the issue is the pie may not be split and chunks of it may just disappear. No I don't hate Floyd.


very good post!!!

i agree. this ppv shit is bad for the sport. i also think ppl have short memory spans. when floyd fought and beat dlh...that fight was oversold big time. everyone and their mothers were talking about the fight and how each guy promised to knock out the other. i don't know that this fight has reached that level just yet...but i am seeing signs of the fight every where and people who don't normally talk boxing are talking about this fight. ppl were expecting fireworks when oscar fought floyd...and they got a technical boxing match instead. i tried to tell everyone who would listen...there will be no fireworks. oscar wasn't offensively aggressive enough for there to be any....and floyd didn't pack enough punch to stop oscar. i think some of the same is happening here....ppl are expecting fireworks, at least from canelo. i can't see canelo having his way with floyd...but i can see floyd doing what he always does...outskilling and schooling his opponents. when he beat oscar....there were a shit ton of fans i came across who were swearing off boxing....and complaining that neither guy did shit, blah,blah,blah...and some usual...'that shit was fixed!!!' b.s. i think the saving grace in all of this is the fact that it's on showtime and not hbo. so, more than likely...we'll get an honest assessment and explanation from ppl who actually know what the fuck they're talking about. they won't be trying to sell their house fighter....or create controversey where there is none.
daprofessor
QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 31 2013, 05:38 PM) *
Also Floyd his own businessman? Doubtful, just a puppet of Al Haymon


we wouldn't even be talking about floyd if it weren't for al haymon.
hitman
a canelo win could be real big. it would be the passing of the torch like dlh did for floyd and pacquiao. if dlh won those fights those guys would not matter (mainstream wise). instead those 2 have carried the sports since. it would be good if canelo could win this fight. rematch would be HUGE.

canelo needs to at least give floyd all he can handle. he can't go out like guerrero.
Franchize
I think it would be bad for the sport honestly. The sport was ruined, in my opinion, by Pactards (including Skip Bayless) and this whole "Floyd's ducking" campaign. The one thing to keep those people's mouth's shut was the undefeated record. Maybe I'm biased as a floyd fan, but he truly doesn't get the credit he deserves. Is he the best ever? No. But in my opinion, we truly are watching greatness take place and it's going unnoticed. If he loses, the same idiotic fungus that's been tainting the sport will arise and dominate all the headlines. Nobody will care if Floyd avenges the loss either. Bottom line is, Boxing is thriving off of Floyd undefeated record. The fact that him, Ward and Rigo are all undefeated is what's saving Boxing from becoming bar room brawling. The Jim Lampleys of the world can hate all they want and give biased commentary and butt hurt monologues. They can diss the fighting style, tell fans "this is boring, this isn't what you want to see." They can hype up skill-less slugfest and have a million and one rematches. End of the day, those fights all look the same, they don't show the skill that this beautiful sport is really all about and when those types of fighters get in a ring with Mayweather, Ward and Rigo....they LOSE! And that's the way it should be!
Plah
QUOTE (Franchize @ Sep 2 2013, 10:18 AM) *
I think it would be bad for the sport honestly. The sport was ruined, in my opinion, by Pactards (including Skip Bayless) and this whole "Floyd's ducking" campaign. The one thing to keep those people's mouth's shut was the undefeated record. Maybe I'm biased as a floyd fan, but he truly doesn't get the credit he deserves. Is he the best ever? No. But in my opinion, we truly are watching greatness take place and it's going unnoticed. If he loses, the same idiotic fungus that's been tainting the sport will arise and dominate all the headlines. Nobody will care if Floyd avenges the loss either. Bottom line is, Boxing is thriving off of Floyd undefeated record. The fact that him, Ward and Rigo are all undefeated is what's saving Boxing from becoming bar room brawling. The Jim Lampleys of the world can hate all they want and give biased commentary and butt hurt monologues. They can diss the fighting style, tell fans "this is boring, this isn't what you want to see." They can hype up skill-less slugfest and have a million and one rematches. End of the day, those fights all look the same, they don't show the skill that this beautiful sport is really all about and when those types of fighters get in a ring with Mayweather, Ward and Rigo....they LOSE! And that's the way it should be!

/thread
mrchitown
QUOTE (Franchize @ Sep 2 2013, 09:18 AM) *
I think it would be bad for the sport honestly. The sport was ruined, in my opinion, by Pactards (including Skip Bayless) and this whole "Floyd's ducking" campaign. The one thing to keep those people's mouth's shut was the undefeated record. Maybe I'm biased as a floyd fan, but he truly doesn't get the credit he deserves. Is he the best ever? No. But in my opinion, we truly are watching greatness take place and it's going unnoticed. If he loses, the same idiotic fungus that's been tainting the sport will arise and dominate all the headlines. Nobody will care if Floyd avenges the loss either. Bottom line is, Boxing is thriving off of Floyd undefeated record. The fact that him, Ward and Rigo are all undefeated is what's saving Boxing from becoming bar room brawling. The Jim Lampleys of the world can hate all they want and give biased commentary and butt hurt monologues. They can diss the fighting style, tell fans "this is boring, this isn't what you want to see." They can hype up skill-less slugfest and have a million and one rematches. End of the day, those fights all look the same, they don't show the skill that this beautiful sport is really all about and when those types of fighters get in a ring with Mayweather, Ward and Rigo....they LOSE! And that's the way it should be!


I agree with a lot of what you said. I see it as a 50/50 type of thing. A loss for Mayweather would change the landscape of boxing and surely usher in a new era of the sport. And it would focus more attention on the other boxers coming up. But it could be bad too because if he loses there's going to be an automatic rematch and even if he wins, some know it all idiots will hang onto that one loss.

I definitely agree with what you said about Mayweather, Ward, and Rigondeaux. If they lose a lot of people will act like it's the end of the world and discredit them
emd01
QUOTE (mgrover @ Aug 31 2013, 09:45 AM) *
Two sides to the coin really, Floyd loses and passes a torch to a very beatable fighter, and he's beat, and then basically the pie gets split up and cut up, and all this PPV nonsense can stop. Or Floyd wins and continues to make himself a fuckton of money for 3 more fights, were he retires and the numbers he generates are no longer really generated for boxing anymore, unless Pac maybe does it? I think he needs to lose for the sake of boxing, call it stupid but if he loses that pie is split, and can be split more and more. But the issue is the pie may not be split and chunks of it may just disappear. No I don't hate Floyd.

Even if he loses he'll be making the same he's making now in his next fight so I dont see any pie splitting being done unless theres some kind of loss clause, which I could never see Floyd agreeing to. He has a contract...win, lose or draw he gets that paper.
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