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MAHDI
I was watching mayweather vs Castillo II. Mayweather won handily yet had to work his ass off.. Castillo was able to check his chin on occassion with hard shots...Now Mayweather is beating guys with ease... dudes more than ten years his jr in many cases... What he did to JMM with his 2 year layoff was amazing no matter the 2 pound weight issue---Mayweather is more accurate and even better defensively and hardly gets touched. Mayweather is better now than ever
HyyerBlaze
Castillo would whoop up Guerrero and Ortiz though imo..and probably Cotto.


But agree...guy has not aged at all.And having Sr. back in his corner is paying off big time.
MAHDI
QUOTE (HyyerBlaze @ Nov 29 2013, 12:49 PM) *
Castillo would whoop up Guerrero and Ortiz though imo..and probably Cotto.


But agree...guy has not aged at all.And having Sr. back in his corner is paying off big time.




Castillo seems a lot like Guererro in the ring.. in fight II Castillo was coming back to his corner shaking his head in frustration... almost 20 years later guys are still shaking their heads in frustration and even resort to dirty tactics... Floyd trained improperly for Cotto fought the wrong fight, yet still won emphatically. If Cotto rematches Floyd now with the rhythm he has... he gets retired.
mgrover
Is he though? Whats happening now is that he's simply faster than these guys so he can get away easier. I mean Alvarez simply plodded forward after he couldn't land effectively since Mayweather was too fast. It's why am so curious about a Pac fight. How will he deal with that speed. Marquez just looks lost coming forward and not countering.
MAHDI
QUOTE (mgrover @ Nov 29 2013, 01:29 PM) *
Is he though? Whats happening now is that he's simply faster than these guys so he can get away easier. I mean Alvarez simply plodded forward after he couldn't land effectively since Mayweather was too fast. It's why am so curious about a Pac fight. How will he deal with that speed. Marquez just looks lost coming forward and not countering.




Didn't bother Bradely and he ain't as fast as Judah was. Rios was able to land good flush shots and he is slow. manny has fast hands but he is very hittable. Is Pac faster now than when Morales beat him? I am curious about the bout yet I know barring injury or lucky shot Pac gets beaten up maybe counter KOd like Marquez did him if he fights mayweather
mgrover
QUOTE (MAHDI @ Nov 29 2013, 07:40 PM) *
Didn't bother Bradely and he ain't as fast as Judah was. Rios was able to land good flush shots and he is slow. manny has fast hands but he is very hittable. Is Pac faster now than when Morales beat him? I am curious about the bout yet I know barring injury or lucky shot Pac gets beaten up maybe counter KOd like Marquez did him if he fights mayweather


What like Marquez's lucky shot yeah? wink.gif
BoxingStill#1
As a fighter, your experience is suppose to advance even at the pro level. I feel mayweather would beat Castillo with ease at this stage (primed Castillo)
BoxingEinstein

Floyd is the type of fighter that learns from his mistakes in fights very quickly and he expects nothing but close to perfection from himself in the sweet science. I believe he is a much better fighter because he's learned more and faced much more styles. Floyd now vs a prime Castillo would definitely be a much more definite win than in both fights.

Past prime Floyd vs Prime Floyd should be a thread coming up.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Nov 29 2013, 12:29 PM) *
Is he though? Whats happening now is that he's simply faster than these guys so he can get away easier. I mean Alvarez simply plodded forward after he couldn't land effectively since Mayweather was too fast. It's why am so curious about a Pac fight. How will he deal with that speed. Marquez just looks lost coming forward and not countering.



LOL, Pac's speed? LOL, dude gets caught by the likes of a slower JMM and you're thinking he's fast enough to beat Floyd? Bradley made the so called "speedy" Pac miss at will and Mayweather is faster than him. I can't believe people honestly believe that MP presents such a puzzle for Mayweather to solve especially at this point in Pacquiao's career.

mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Nov 30 2013, 05:26 AM) *
LOL, Pac's speed? LOL, dude gets caught by the likes of a slower JMM and you're thinking he's fast enough to beat Floyd? Bradley made the so called "speedy" Pac miss at will and Mayweather is faster than him. I can't believe people honestly believe that MP presents such a puzzle for Mayweather to solve especially at this point in Pacquiao's career.


I never said beat, I said deal with. But if you'd get your head out your ass for 5 minutes and actually read the post you might of noticed that...
Marcus
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Nov 29 2013, 08:59 PM) *
Floyd is the type of fighter that learns from his mistakes in fights very quickly and he expects nothing but close to perfection from himself in the sweet science. I believe he is a much better fighter because he's learned more and faced much more styles. Floyd now vs a prime Castillo would definitely be a much more definite win than in both fights.

Past prime Floyd vs Prime Floyd should be a thread coming up.



Very interesting! hmmmm
Marcus
My biggest regret about Floyd was the Ortiz fight. Every fighter has dirty tactics that they use-its part of the game. But i regret Ortiz used the dirty tactics he used to the degree that he used them because Floyd was WHOOPING ORTIZ. I never wondered if ortiz wouldve got knocked out had the fight ended on legal terms but HOW ortiz wouldve got knocked out. I've never seen post Gatti Floyd throw combinations the way he did in the beginning of round 4 of that fight. I mean did any of you see ortizs face after ONLY 4 rounds? He was getting sniped with straight rights like CRAZY
mgrover
QUOTE (Marcus @ Nov 30 2013, 08:13 PM) *
My biggest regret about Floyd was the Ortiz fight. Every fighter has dirty tactics that they use-its part of the game. But i regret Ortiz used the dirty tactics he used to the degree that he used them because Floyd was WHOOPING ORTIZ. I never wondered if ortiz wouldve got knocked out had the fight ended on legal terms but HOW ortiz wouldve got knocked out. I've never seen post Gatti Floyd throw combinations the way he did in the beginning of round 4 of that fight. I mean did any of you see ortizs face after ONLY 4 rounds? He was getting sniped with straight rights like CRAZY


He was simply too slow for Mayweather. I think you need to atleast be on the same level physically as Mayweather to even have a small chance of beating him. So you need to be as fast as him, as fresh as him, enough power to make him respect you and the endurance to go 12 rounds and being as tired as the first round.
checkleft
Floyd is a better fighter now. Not because of his physical assets but because of his iq. When he was younger his physical gifts were incredible, he has definitely lost a step since then but his iq is what sets him apart.

mgrover
QUOTE (checkleft @ Nov 30 2013, 10:53 PM) *
Floyd is a better fighter now. Not because of his physical assets but because of his iq. When he was younger his physical gifts were incredible, he has definitely lost a step since then but his iq is what sets him apart.


obviously but he's still a class above the quite a lot of fighters physically. When his physical side isn't so god like, we'll see exactly how well his IQ matches up.
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Nov 30 2013, 03:00 PM) *
He was simply too slow for Mayweather. I think you need to atleast be on the same level physically as Mayweather to even have a small chance of beating him. So you need to be as fast as him, as fresh as him, enough power to make him respect you and the endurance to go 12 rounds and being as tired as the first round.


Ortiz is pretty fast, if he was too slow then the rest of the boxers in and around his weight class are in trouble
mgrover
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 1 2013, 04:24 AM) *
Ortiz is pretty fast, if he was too slow then the rest of the boxers in and around his weight class are in trouble


He sure as hell didn't look fast, and the fact he came in at 160 was it? didn't help.
checkleft
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 1 2013, 12:16 AM) *
obviously but he's still a class above the quite a lot of fighters physically. When his physical side isn't so god like, we'll see exactly how well his IQ matches up.

That's the scary part.

There's truth to the second thing you said. He had trouble against zab who matched up with him in speed and pop. But whether it was his iq or just zab being zab he ended up taking over.
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 1 2013, 08:53 AM) *
He sure as hell didn't look fast, and the fact he came in at 160 was it? didn't help.


Victor has never been slow. He's got some speed. Maybe it was the weight but it definitely wasn't his speed
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Nov 30 2013, 08:31 AM) *
I never said beat, I said deal with. But if you'd get your head out your ass for 5 minutes and actually read the post you might of noticed that...



The only person's head that's in their ass is a stupid MFer like you dummy.
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Nov 29 2013, 01:29 PM) *
Is he though? Whats happening now is that he's simply faster than these guys so he can get away easier. I mean Alvarez simply plodded forward after he couldn't land effectively since Mayweather was too fast. It's why am so curious about a Pac fight. How will he deal with that speed. Marquez just looks lost coming forward and not countering.

Interesting. Pac may actually be motivated for this fight, so he may look as sharp as he did in the 4th Marquez fight. Judging by the Pac that I saw two weeks ago, I'd say that he'd get greased. Again, when Pac is focused and motivated, we see the best Pac. The only difference is, when Pac's not motivated, he just looks less than stellar...when Floyd's not motivated...he takes vacations. Lol
BrutUalBK
Honestly it outright terms of just sheer physical boxing skills I think Floyd was at his best when he was at 130; dude was fast, used movement, threw more combos and was afraid to let his left hook go but now it seems that in fear of being caught with a counter he does not let that hook go as fast and as often as he used to plus he used his legs as his defense and rarely got touched.

Nowadays though he doesn't take many shots at all let alone any of them flush because of the shoulder roll he does however allows his body parts to impacted on when back in the day you could scarcely lay a glove on him at all. The Corrales fight is and will always be his best performance IMHO, he shut him down and put on a clear display of overall boxing skills and ability while pounding on a man who was taller, a better puncher and outweighed him by like 14lbs or so if I recall correctly.

I like the way he fights smart today with his shoulder roll and all but offensively I think he's too hesitant or gunshy to fire off multiple punch combos the way he used to for fear of being caught with something he doesn't see, he is smarter and more cunning and his reflexes still allows him to get out of the way of most punches coming back but you can clearly see that he's slowed down and doesn't pull the trigger like he used to.

MAHDI
He is a better fighter now. More accurate. Slowed down? A bit but still is too fast for the field. As far as him getting hit... I was watching past fights, Floyd always got hit a bit. Castillo touched him up.. Emmanuel Agustus.. Corley, Jesus Chavez Judah(for a few rounds)...He seems harder to hit now to me. When he was younger and lighter he was more aggressive offensively, now he is a pure boxer.. less aggressive, yet he has perfected the art of getting hit and not get hit, and manages to outland his opponent. He has become as pure pugilist. His legs and movement are still great and he is even more economical with his movement and he barely breathes in his bouts. Floyd Mayweather is a major problem in the ring still.
Dolimite
I think he is a better fighter now, because he is smarter. He fights smarter. When he was a kid he was just fighting off of his talent and skill. Now he uses all aspects of his fight game and applies it with sear intelligence.

The argument that Floyd would have a problem with Manny's speed and he has never seen speed like Manny is a farce. Look at Zab Judah. It took him some time to find his rhythm, but when he found it, it was lights out. if Tim Bradley could deal with Pac's power and an aging Mosley and JMM, why would Floyd have such an issue?
mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Dec 2 2013, 04:05 AM) *
The only person's head that's in their ass is a stupid MFer like you dummy.



alright now don't get too wound up laugh.gif

I still don't think Ortiz is that fast. He's a bit above. But he's never been quick to react.
mgrover
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 3 2013, 10:04 PM) *
I think he is a better fighter now, because he is smarter. He fights smarter. When he was a kid he was just fighting off of his talent and skill. Now he uses all aspects of his fight game and applies it with sear intelligence.

The argument that Floyd would have a problem with Manny's speed and he has never seen speed like Manny is a farce. Look at Zab Judah. It took him some time to find his rhythm, but when he found it, it was lights out. if Tim Bradley could deal with Pac's power and an aging Mosley and JMM, why would Floyd have such an issue?


Look at it this way. Zab tried to stand there and outbox Mayweather, so Mayweather walked his ass down. I doubt he'll do the same with Pac. It'll be a different fight since Pac will be trying to get his in and out rhythm and Mayweather will be trying to time him coming in. And am not saying Mayweather will never catch him, I expect him to catch him plenty, but at the same time if Pac keeps the pressure up like Zab should of done, it'd be interesting. I've yet to see Pac fold like that mentally.

Maybe am the only like who sees is this way. But people need to stop giving Mayweather wins for fights he never took part of.
MAHDI
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 3 2013, 06:03 PM) *
Look at it this way. Zab tried to stand there and outbox Mayweather, so Mayweather walked his ass down. I doubt he'll do the same with Pac. It'll be a different fight since Pac will be trying to get his in and out rhythm and Mayweather will be trying to time him coming in. And am not saying Mayweather will never catch him, I expect him to catch him plenty, but at the same time if Pac keeps the pressure up like Zab should of done, it'd be interesting. I've yet to see Pac fold like that mentally.

Maybe am the only like who sees is this way. But people need to stop giving Mayweather wins for fights he never took part of.




I think it is more of Pac having shown nothing that would seem to trouble mayweather... He was kod by a less effective counter puncher than Floyd and out boxed by a lesser boxer than Floyd. Hopefully he and Pac fight-- I see it being EASY WORK for Floyd but I want to see it.
mgrover
QUOTE (MAHDI @ Dec 4 2013, 01:56 AM) *
I think it is more of Pac having shown nothing that would seem to trouble mayweather... He was kod by a less effective counter puncher than Floyd and out boxed by a lesser boxer than Floyd. Hopefully he and Pac fight-- I see it being EASY WORK for Floyd but I want to see it.


clearly has, speed and angles. He was KOed by a less effective counter puncher but that's simply because Marquez is a more aggressive counter puncher than Floyd
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 4 2013, 03:00 AM) *
clearly has, speed and angles. He was KOed by a less effective counter puncher but that's simply because Marquez is a more aggressive counter puncher than Floyd


True indeed. But Marquez's aggression played against him in all 4 meetings, until he finally landed the shot he'd been looking for in the previous meetings between he and Manny. Mayweather doesn't have the pop of Marquez but he's an assassin, accuracy is just as important as power and he's then most accurate in the game...Emmanuel Steward would always say something about Floyd that I believe to this day and that's if he wanted to, he could stop these guys.

I too, believe that if he would've stepped up the offense a bit more that he could've stopped Mosley, he definitely could've stopped Cotto in that last round but he buzzed him and then started moving as if his mission was complete. Even in 09, his fight against Marquez he could've got him out of there before the 10th imo. He just doesn't go for it like others, he's content to go rounds. He and Marquez are assassins but Mayweather is deadly accurate with his shots and that would pose a serious problem to Pacquiao

Franchize
Before I answer respond to the OP, can we stop saying Marquez landed one shot? That was the SECOND knockdown score for JMM of the fight. He didn't get lucky. He was countering Manny all night. And as far as Manny's speed, #1 Floyd is fast as well. #2 Floyd's jab to the belly (which is his most underrated punch IMO) can negate that. He did it to Oscar. He did it to Cotto. He did it to Guerrero.

As far as the OP, I thought Floyd may be losing a step when he fought Cotto. Maybe it was all talk and he really wasn't trying to mix it up. Maybe he just ran out of gas finally. Then I saw him vs Guerrero. Then I saw him vs Canelo. That wasn't "Money" Mayweather out there. That was Pretty Boy Floyd! That was the fighter that turned me from an occasional casual fan to a guy who loves boxing almost 2 decades ago. I don't if it's the addition of Sr, I don't know if it's even more dedication to his craft, I don't know if it was the time in jail etc etc etc. All I know is, the Floyd that fought in those last 2 fights was moving in the ring better than he has probably since the Marquez fight. Maybe even better than that. Floyd's footwork hasn't been that good since he fought Carlos Baldomir....and That's SCARY! To have those physical gifts with all that ring IQ. shok.gif
Dolimite
QUOTE (MAHDI @ Dec 3 2013, 05:56 PM) *
I think it is more of Pac having shown nothing that would seem to trouble mayweather... He was kod by a less effective counter puncher than Floyd and out boxed by a lesser boxer than Floyd. Hopefully he and Pac fight-- I see it being EASY WORK for Floyd but I want to see it.


The question is, how can Pac beat Mayweather? Pac has never been close to a fighter of May's caliber. what did uncle Roger say? Speed don't mean shit if you don't know how to use it. Manny looked hesitate against Rios, RIOS! His foot work is what got him TKO by JMM. You are going to need more than speed to beat May. Is Pac smarter than Mayweather inside the ring?

QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 4 2013, 01:00 AM) *
clearly has, speed and angles. He was KOed by a less effective counter puncher but that's simply because Marquez is a more aggressive counter puncher than Floyd


Thank you!
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 4 2013, 06:54 AM) *
True indeed. But Marquez's aggression played against him in all 4 meetings, until he finally landed the shot he'd been looking for in the previous meetings between he and Manny. Mayweather doesn't have the pop of Marquez but he's an assassin, accuracy is just as important as power and he's then most accurate in the game...Emmanuel Steward would always say something about Floyd that I believe to this day and that's if he wanted to, he could stop these guys.

I too, believe that if he would've stepped up the offense a bit more that he could've stopped Mosley, he definitely could've stopped Cotto in that last round but he buzzed him and then started moving as if his mission was complete. Even in 09, his fight against Marquez he could've got him out of there before the 10th imo. He just doesn't go for it like others, he's content to go rounds. He and Marquez are assassins but Mayweather is deadly accurate with his shots and that would pose a serious problem to Pacquiao


Let;s not forget the Bradley fight. He did nothing to serious hurt or stop Bradley from walking him down. Reminder, Bradley had a hurt ankle and Pac still could not impose his will. Against skilled fighters he looks terrible but against brawlers he looks great, Mosley even clocked him and Mosley has been past it. I do not think May is in love with the KO. I think he likes to know that he is the superior boxer, he performs for himself.
QUOTE (Franchize @ Dec 4 2013, 07:15 AM) *
Before I answer respond to the OP, can we stop saying Marquez landed one shot? That was the SECOND knockdown score for JMM of the fight. He didn't get lucky. He was countering Manny all night. And as far as Manny's speed, #1 Floyd is fast as well. #2 Floyd's jab to the belly (which is his most underrated punch IMO) can negate that. He did it to Oscar. He did it to Cotto. He did it to Guerrero.

As far as the OP, I thought Floyd may be losing a step when he fought Cotto. Maybe it was all talk and he really wasn't trying to mix it up. Maybe he just ran out of gas finally. Then I saw him vs Guerrero. Then I saw him vs Canelo. That wasn't "Money" Mayweather out there. That was Pretty Boy Floyd! That was the fighter that turned me from an occasional casual fan to a guy who loves boxing almost 2 decades ago. I don't if it's the addition of Sr, I don't know if it's even more dedication to his craft, I don't know if it was the time in jail etc etc etc. All I know is, the Floyd that fought in those last 2 fights was moving in the ring better than he has probably since the Marquez fight. Maybe even better than that. Floyd's footwork hasn't been that good since he fought Carlos Baldomir....and That's SCARY! To have those physical gifts with all that ring IQ. shok.gif

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