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truth
First pac is only a good option for money not cause he poses the biggest threat to Floyd second all this Floyd is scared of PAC is crazy he has faced his style before so its nothing new. I would much rather him face Bradley minus the cold war.third since there is a cold war the fight is not h happening pac is his own man his decisions are his own if he chooses to get pimped by Arum its his choice he could have left before he signed his last extension especially knowing he could not make the fight he says he wants i don't want to see him fight khan but if he did so what don't like it don't buy the fight i personally would like to see him face Martinez. There a lot of other fighters that present a bigger risk than
mgrover
we get it. so shush
truth
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 17 2013, 12:16 PM) *
we get it. so shush


I know real boxing fans get its these casuals who don't just struck a nerve today so i woo saaaed i feel better too lol
mgrover
QUOTE (truth @ Dec 17 2013, 05:29 PM) *
I know real boxing fans get its these casuals who don't just struck a nerve today so i woo saaaed i feel better too lol


i really don't get what there still talking about, i don't know whose fault it is between the two fighters, I know it'll always be Arums fault to be, and I've closed the book on it.
Cshel86
QUOTE (truth @ Dec 17 2013, 12:05 PM) *
First pac is only a good option for money not cause he poses the biggest threat to Floyd second all this Floyd is scared of PAC is crazy he has faced his style before so its nothing new. I would much rather him face Bradley minus the cold war.third since there is a cold war the fight is not h happening pac is his own man his decisions are his own if he chooses to get pimped by Arum its his choice he could have left before he signed his last extension especially knowing he could not make the fight he says he wants i don't want to see him fight khan but if he did so what don't like it don't buy the fight i personally would like to see him face Martinez. There a lot of other fighters that present a bigger risk than

Tell 'em how you really feel!

laugh.gif
mitukczuk
It's threads like these that make the casuals want it. Cause they don't know shit about boxing...
mrchitown
It doesn't annoy me like it used to because people are going to think what they want to think. I've been sick of the talk since 2010, it's time to move on
checkleft
Tired of pacquiao mayweather threads.. pac has a new fight coming up against the irs and by the end of that fight he may be wishing he could have traded for another straight right full force from marquez.
Dolimite
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 18 2013, 01:42 AM) *
Tired of pacquiao mayweather threads.. pac has a new fight coming up against the irs and by the end of that fight he may be wishing he could have traded for another straight right full force from marquez.

Pac has serious money woes. Honestly this fight died officially when Pac got iced. Pac fans say May is scary and he has never seen power or speed like that of Manny. May fans say: Pac or Arum never wanted the fight and Pac is all hype, he has a padded record. This fight is dead. Been dead. But if it gets made both groups will make May even more money and it will help Pac pay down his tax debt
aTYpicalTYrant
This tired ass debate is going to do nothing but get worse once Floyd vacates his belt..... Just get ready to be blown.
truth
QUOTE (aTYpicalTYrant @ Dec 18 2013, 01:00 PM) *
This tired ass debate is going to do nothing but get worse once Floyd vacates his belt..... Just get ready to be blown.



I know right I'm already blown to the fifth power
Cshel86
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 18 2013, 03:42 AM) *
Tired of pacquiao mayweather threads.. pac has a new fight coming up against the irs and by the end of that fight he may be wishing he could have traded for another straight right full force from marquez.

laugh.gif
klonopinz
leonard vs hagler and hagler vs hearns was suppsosed to happen in 1982, yet we had to wait 5 years almost for them. who knows
mrchitown
I'm sure Dolomite shared this on his facebook and re-tweeted it on twitter lol

http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/mayweather...pacquiao-233985

There's no denying the humor in this
mgrover
i cba making a new topic for this, but a curious question, how was De La Hoya vs Pac made?
KOpower
QUOTE (truth @ Dec 17 2013, 12:05 PM) *
First pac is only a good option for money not cause he poses the biggest threat to Floyd second all this Floyd is scared of PAC is crazy he has faced his style before so its nothing new. I would much rather him face Bradley minus the cold war.third since there is a cold war the fight is not h happening pac is his own man his decisions are his own if he chooses to get pimped by Arum its his choice he could have left before he signed his last extension especially knowing he could not make the fight he says he wants i don't want to see him fight khan but if he did so what don't like it don't buy the fight i personally would like to see him face Martinez. There a lot of other fighters that present a bigger risk than



LoL

Ok, who DOES pose the biggest threat to Floyd in the 140-154 weight class? I keep hearing about how this guy or that guy doesn't pose the best threat to Floyd. I want to know who DOES pose the biggest threat. Don't tell me Sergio Martinez or GGG because those fights will never be made and those guys are at 160. I want to know which fighter DOES pose the biggest threat to Floyd, if not Manny. My only guess is Tim Bradley but Manny beat Bradley in their first fight and will likely beat him a 2nd time in April when that fight gets made.
KOpower
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 18 2013, 08:11 AM) *
Pac has serious money woes. Honestly this fight died officially when Pac got iced. Pac fans say May is scary and he has never seen power or speed like that of Manny. May fans say: Pac or Arum never wanted the fight and Pac is all hype, he has a padded record. This fight is dead. Been dead. But if it gets made both groups will make May even more money and it will help Pac pay down his tax debt



Wait a second, who is saying Manny is all hype? What idiot casual fan would even dare argue that? Manny has TONS of big name scalps under his belt.

-2-0 against MAB
-2-1 against Morales
-2-1-1 against JMM

Manny then moved up in weight and destroyed Oscar, Knocked Hatton out cold, dominated Miguel Cotto, put a whipping on Clottey, broke the eye of Margarito, easily beat Mosley, and won almost every second of the Rios fight. Then there is the Tim Bradley fight, the fight everyone except blind judges had him winning.

If there is anyone out there that thinks Manny is hype then he either knows absolutely nothing about boxing or has an agenda against him due to the color of his skin or the way he fights. Manny is one of the greatest fighters of this generation. Period. People that say Manny is a fraud give boxing a bad name.
Plah
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 25 2013, 12:28 PM) *
LoL

Ok, who DOES pose the biggest threat to Floyd in the 140-154 weight class? I keep hearing about how this guy or that guy doesn't pose the best threat to Floyd. I want to know who DOES pose the biggest threat. Don't tell me Sergio Martinez or GGG because those fights will never be made and those guys are at 160. I want to know which fighter DOES pose the biggest threat to Floyd, if not Manny. My only guess is Tim Bradley but Manny beat Bradley in their first fight and will likely beat him a 2nd time in April when that fight gets made.

Lara
mgrover
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 25 2013, 05:35 PM) *
Wait a second, who is saying Manny is all hype? What idiot casual fan would even dare argue that? Manny has TONS of big name scalps under his belt.

-2-0 against MAB
-2-1 against Morales
-2-1-1 against JMM

Manny then moved up in weight and destroyed Oscar, Knocked Hatton out cold, dominated Miguel Cotto, put a whipping on Clottey, broke the eye of Margarito, easily beat Mosley, and won almost every second of the Rios fight. Then there is the Tim Bradley fight, the fight everyone except blind judges had him winning.

If there is anyone out there that thinks Manny is hype then he either knows absolutely nothing about boxing or has an agenda against him due to the color of his skin or the way he fights. Manny is one of the greatest fighters of this generation. Period. People that say Manny is a fraud give boxing a bad name.


While am a Pac fan even I can ee the * next to these names so

Morales - Pretty drained for those two fights he lost and he was coming off a dominating loss
JMM - All the fights have been close aside from the last

Oscar- Drained, Oscars fault, he dictated the weight.

Hatton - His chin and lifestyle is what beat him but no fault to Manny

Cotto - Drained, Cotto broke Pacs eardrum I think? Wonder what the out come would be 2lb heavier

Clottey - It seems like this fight was fixed but who knows. Fuck Clottey mans a bitch

Margs - Drained, while clearly the way bigger man in the ring on fight night and still hurt Manny physically, I wonder what would of happened at 154lb

Mosley - Old, although he looked exactly the same he did vs Mayweather till he got his ass tagged and went into survival mode.

Bradley - Very close fight IMO closer than people give credit for, I did have it 8-4, Manny but after several watches I can see a draw

Rios - 1 Dimensional, Rios was there to make Pac look good, end of story.

So yeah...
checkleft
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 25 2013, 10:39 PM) *
While am a Pac fan even I can ee the * next to these names so

Morales - Pretty drained for those two fights he lost and he was coming off a dominating loss
JMM - All the fights have been close aside from the last

Oscar- Drained, Oscars fault, he dictated the weight.

Hatton - His chin and lifestyle is what beat him but no fault to Manny

Cotto - Drained, Cotto broke Pacs eardrum I think? Wonder what the out come would be 2lb heavier

Clottey - It seems like this fight was fixed but who knows. Fuck Clottey mans a bitch

Margs - Drained, while clearly the way bigger man in the ring on fight night and still hurt Manny physically, I wonder what would of happened at 154lb

Mosley - Old, although he looked exactly the same he did vs Mayweather till he got his ass tagged and went into survival mode.

Bradley - Very close fight IMO closer than people give credit for, I did have it 8-4, Manny but after several watches I can see a draw

Rios - 1 Dimensional, Rios was there to make Pac look good, end of story.

So yeah...

youainlyin

mrchitown
Pacquiao as far as his career isn't all hype but his run at WW and thru the fighters like ODLH, Hatton Cotto, etc...and up til now is 100% all hype
Dolimite
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 26 2013, 12:02 PM) *
Pacquiao as far as his career isn't all hype but his run at WW and thru the fighters like ODLH, Hatton Cotto, etc...and up til now is 100% all hype

you just hate Manny. Floyd nuthugger
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 26 2013, 04:53 PM) *
you just hate Manny. Floyd nuthugger


laugh.gif
KOpower
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 25 2013, 09:39 PM) *
While am a Pac fan even I can ee the * next to these names so

Morales - Pretty drained for those two fights he lost and he was coming off a dominating loss
JMM - All the fights have been close aside from the last

Oscar- Drained, Oscars fault, he dictated the weight.

Hatton - His chin and lifestyle is what beat him but no fault to Manny

Cotto - Drained, Cotto broke Pacs eardrum I think? Wonder what the out come would be 2lb heavier

Clottey - It seems like this fight was fixed but who knows. Fuck Clottey mans a bitch

Margs - Drained, while clearly the way bigger man in the ring on fight night and still hurt Manny physically, I wonder what would of happened at 154lb

Mosley - Old, although he looked exactly the same he did vs Mayweather till he got his ass tagged and went into survival mode.

Bradley - Very close fight IMO closer than people give credit for, I did have it 8-4, Manny but after several watches I can see a draw

Rios - 1 Dimensional, Rios was there to make Pac look good, end of story.

So yeah...


Just terrible. I would never not give Floyd credit for beating guys like Canelo and JMM. Floyd won so convincingly against those 2 that the extra advantages he had mean nothing. The same goes for Manny. These excuses are so bad that I almost don't believe you are serious.

-Manny knocked Morales out in the final 2 fights. There isn't much debate there. Morals wasn't as good as he once was, but Manny still finished him off.

-The fights with JMM were all really close, I agree. Manny still went 2-1-1 against him and even the draw is controversial because one judge forgot how many times Manny knocked JMM down in the 1st round. If he gets that number right, Manny is 3-1 against JMM. With that being said I am perfectly fine with 2-1-1 because the 2 wins he had later were both really close.

-Oscar was drained, but Manny put a whipping on him. Like you said, the weight was OSCAR'S decision. I will say that the Oscar fight is the only Manny fight where I think the outcome may be different if they fought at a different weight. I still would pick Manny, but it would have been a much more competitive fight.

-Ricky had the same chin against Floyd. Do we not give Floyd credit for that win because Ricky had no chin? Manny DUSTED Ricky.

-Manny dominated Cotto. Cotto dropped 2 pounds but so did Canelo for the fight against Floyd and I still give Floyd full credit. Manny KO's Cotto at 147 the same way he did at 145.

-The Clottey fight was rigged? Are you serious? Clottey was a legitimate 147 pounder...a tough fighter that handled Zab Judah and damn near beat Cotto. Manny put a WHIPPING on him.

-Margarito got his head caved in by Manny. Manny almost took that man's vision. Margarito wasn't beating Manny at any weight. That was a really lopsided fight.

-Mosley was old, but Manny still beat him with ease

-I am glad we both agree about the Bradley fight

-Rios may have been a perfect match for Manny but that doesn't take away from the victory. Rios is no punk and Manny won almost every round of the fight

I can't think of many 140-147 pound fighters that could beat Manny over the last 10 years except Mayweather. I would LOVE to see Manny get in the ring with Garcia, Broner, Maidana, etc but that obviously won't happen. I don't see how anyone could think Manny at 140 or 147 is a fraud after his fights against Rios and Bradley. Those are 2 Top-10 147 pound fighters and he won both fights rather convincingly. Hopefully the rematch with Bradley happens so this whole thing can be put to bed.
checkleft
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 27 2013, 02:43 AM) *
Just terrible. I would never not give Floyd credit for beating guys like Canelo and JMM. Floyd won so convincingly against those 2 that the extra advantages he had mean nothing. The same goes for Manny. These excuses are so bad that I almost don't believe you are serious.

-Manny knocked Morales out in the final 2 fights. There isn't much debate there. Morals wasn't as good as he once was, but Manny still finished him off.

-The fights with JMM were all really close, I agree. Manny still went 2-1-1 against him and even the draw is controversial because one judge forgot how many times Manny knocked JMM down in the 1st round. If he gets that number right, Manny is 3-1 against JMM. With that being said I am perfectly fine with 2-1-1 because the 2 wins he had later were both really close.

-Oscar was drained, but Manny put a whipping on him. Like you said, the weight was OSCAR'S decision. I will say that the Oscar fight is the only Manny fight where I think the outcome may be different if they fought at a different weight. I still would pick Manny, but it would have been a much more competitive fight.

-Ricky had the same chin against Floyd. Do we not give Floyd credit for that win because Ricky had no chin? Manny DUSTED Ricky.

-Manny dominated Cotto. Cotto dropped 2 pounds but so did Canelo for the fight against Floyd and I still give Floyd full credit. Manny KO's Cotto at 147 the same way he did at 145.

-The Clottey fight was rigged? Are you serious? Clottey was a legitimate 147 pounder...a tough fighter that handled Zab Judah and damn near beat Cotto. Manny put a WHIPPING on him.

-Margarito got his head caved in by Manny. Manny almost took that man's vision. Margarito wasn't beating Manny at any weight. That was a really lopsided fight.

-Mosley was old, but Manny still beat him with ease

-I am glad we both agree about the Bradley fight

-Rios may have been a perfect match for Manny but that doesn't take away from the victory. Rios is no punk and Manny won almost every round of the fight

I can't think of many 140-147 pound fighters that could beat Manny over the last 10 years except Mayweather. I would LOVE to see Manny get in the ring with Garcia, Broner, Maidana, etc but that obviously won't happen. I don't see how anyone could think Manny at 140 or 147 is a fraud after his fights against Rios and Bradley. Those are 2 Top-10 147 pound fighters and he won both fights rather convincingly. Hopefully the rematch with Bradley happens so this whole thing can be put to bed.

Rios actually is a punk. And he is highly overrated. But Whatevs

And Rickys massive downwards spiral after the mayweather fight has never been a secret, he drank and drugged himself constantly and left his lifelong trainer for the first time.

I feel that, yes there are too many advantages in some fights (not just speaking about mannys) but I can sit here and pretty much put an asterisk next to any win if you asked me to..

Btw a lot of judges don't score rounds less than 10-7, Idk if that is also common knowledge but I know its not rare for judges to keep it 10-7 even with multiple kds because they don't want to wipe away all chance of a fighter coming back in a fight.
KOpower
-2 of the 3 judges had it 10-6 and the 3rd judge came out and admitted that he didn't get that 1st round right and that it should have been 10-6.

-So you are giving Mayweather full credit for beating Hatton but not Manny? Is that how it is? Even though Manny literally put his as* to sleep? Manny KO's Hatton no matter when they fight.

-The only fight I think the weight advantage may have had a big impact was the Oscar fight, but Manny beat him so badly that it is hard to see Oscar beating Manny at any weight. The Cotto thing is just an excuse. They fought at 145 and Cotto was a 147 pound fighter. Margarito was fought at 150 but Manny wasn't even a WW at the time. He was 144 pounds at the weigh-in. Manny beats Margarito at any weight.

I think you can put an * next to many fights for many fighters. There is always something someone can say. I won't do it to Floyd for his wins against JMM and Canelo so I won't do it to Manny for his wins against Cotto and Margarito. I think both fighters handle those 4 opponents the same way regardless of weight.

Even if you take out ALL of the catch weight fights Manny fought at the 140/147 pound weights, he still has dominating wins over Ricky Hatton, Josh Clottey, Shane Mosley, Brandon Rios, and a certain victory over Tim Bradley. Those 5 wins are all really impressive and prove that he is as legitimate as they come at the 140 and 147 pounds. Again, over the last 10 years how many 140/147 pound fighters would you put ahead of Manny? I can think of only 1 and that is Floyd. Manny was a boss at the lighter weights and then moved up and has been a boss at the 140/147 pound weight.
Plah
The Clottey fight was fixed and when he talked about it he (Clottey) was quickly put on the shelf. And Manny never, NEVER won the 2nd and 3rd fights with JMM. I think he barely won the first one though. I do give him credit for his fights below 140, but his "147 and 154 runs" are all hype and smoke & mirrors.
mrchitown
I'm going to start giving out "the Shaq face of the day" on here lol....how one can argue that Pacquaio's run to being an 8 division world champ wasn't over hyped is beyond foolish.

Let's look at facts here

ODLH, in his prime he would've dusted Manny and maybe, just maybe he would've beat Mayweather. But when he fought Manny it was over for him. He looked like shit against Steve Frobes, and he was weight drained. Manny's own trainer, Freddie Roach was talking about he knew they had it in the bag when they saw the IV marks

Then he fights Hatton who was a shell of himself after being KO'd by Mayweather. Who also looked like shit in his wins over Lazcano and Malinaggi. Then he fights Manny and gets world starred

Then he fights Cotto, who got murdered damn near by Margarito. Then Miguel comes back and looks like shit against Michael Jennings, and then turns in a performance in which I, and many others thought he lost against Joshua Clottey. He was getting worked over something serious in that fight and probably only got the nod because he's a name who had a big fight lined up. Then he's drained coming into the fight with Manny. Say what you want about the Canelo fight but it's different when your in your early 20's as opposed to almost or at the other side of 30. And he got beat badly the year before and looked like a shell of himself sine that fight.

Now we have Clottey, who I don't think it was fixed but he just shelled up. After this came the Margarito fight, this is the guy who was never the same after plaster gate, Got beat soundly by Shane and looked like trash against Roberto Garcia, then fights Manny and has his eye fucked something serious

Notice a pattern here, stop me when I'm lying but who has he fought that's looked good in their previous fights? They've all looked like trash coming into their fights with him. Including Tim, his first fight under the TR banner was less then stellar on the performance side by him and he still hung in there and made a supposed elite fighter look ordinary. Manny didn't beat him convincingly, how does that happen when you only fight 30 secs to a min of every round. The more I look at that fight the more Manny deserved to lose

Shane was done, coming off a loss and a draw. JMM in the eyes of many, beat him in the 3rd fight, Bradley lost imo but Manny didn't help his case. He's known for activity but didn't show any. Then he gets the best sleep he'll ever have against Marquez and low and behold he comes back to boxing fighting Brandon Rios whose coming off of a loss and should have lost to Abril. He should've been 1-2 coming into that fight and he fought like a fighter whose 1-2 in his last 3 bouts

I just want to know when he started his run, who did Manny Pacquiao face that looked impressive in their previous outings. I'm a fan of Manny, he's good for boxing, and I feel bad about his current tax troubles, but his career over the weight of 135 is weak
KOpower
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 27 2013, 02:23 PM) *
I'm going to start giving out "the Shaq face of the day" on here lol....how one can argue that Pacquaio's run to being an 8 division world champ wasn't over hyped is beyond foolish.

Let's look at facts here

ODLH, in his prime he would've dusted Manny and maybe, just maybe he would've beat Mayweather. But when he fought Manny it was over for him. He looked like shit against Steve Frobes, and he was weight drained. Manny's own trainer, Freddie Roach was talking about he knew they had it in the bag when they saw the IV marks

Then he fights Hatton who was a shell of himself after being KO'd by Mayweather. Who also looked like shit in his wins over Lazcano and Malinaggi. Then he fights Manny and gets world starred

Then he fights Cotto, who got murdered damn near by Margarito. Then Miguel comes back and looks like shit against Michael Jennings, and then turns in a performance in which I, and many others thought he lost against Joshua Clottey. He was getting worked over something serious in that fight and probably only got the nod because he's a name who had a big fight lined up. Then he's drained coming into the fight with Manny. Say what you want about the Canelo fight but it's different when your in your early 20's as opposed to almost or at the other side of 30. And he got beat badly the year before and looked like a shell of himself sine that fight.

Now we have Clottey, who I don't think it was fixed but he just shelled up. After this came the Margarito fight, this is the guy who was never the same after plaster gate, Got beat soundly by Shane and looked like trash against Roberto Garcia, then fights Manny and has his eye fucked something serious

Notice a pattern here, stop me when I'm lying but who has he fought that's looked good in their previous fights? They've all looked like trash coming into their fights with him. Including Tim, his first fight under the TR banner was less then stellar on the performance side by him and he still hung in there and made a supposed elite fighter look ordinary. Manny didn't beat him convincingly, how does that happen when you only fight 30 secs to a min of every round. The more I look at that fight the more Manny deserved to lose

Shane was done, coming off a loss and a draw. JMM in the eyes of many, beat him in the 3rd fight, Bradley lost imo but Manny didn't help his case. He's known for activity but didn't show any. Then he gets the best sleep he'll ever have against Marquez and low and behold he comes back to boxing fighting Brandon Rios whose coming off of a loss and should have lost to Abril. He should've been 1-2 coming into that fight and he fought like a fighter whose 1-2 in his last 3 bouts

I just want to know when he started his run, who did Manny Pacquiao face that looked impressive in their previous outings. I'm a fan of Manny, he's good for boxing, and I feel bad about his current tax troubles, but his career over the weight of 135 is weak



Like I said, you want to give Floyd full credit for beating Canelo and Manny little credit for beating Cotto. It amazes me that you can't even be consistent. Floyd plays by 1 set of rules in your eyes while Manny plays by another. Both Canelo and Cotto had to drop weight by 2 pounds prior to the fight, yet somehow Cotto was in such a compromising situation because he was 27 while Canelo was 24? What the heck kind of logic is that?

The lack of logic by you is insane. Does Manny have 1 legitimate win in the 140 or 147 pound division? I mean literally...just 1? I can't believe the lengths you go to to try and discredit Manny's wins against 140 and 147 pound fighters. You just won't allow yourself to admit that Manny has been outstanding against those 140 and 147 pounders.

Like I said, even if you take away wins against Oscar, Mosley, Margarito, and Cotto, Manny still has wins over LEGITIMATE 140/147 guys like Clottey, Hatton, Rios, and Bradley (assuming we all admit Manny won that fight). I give Manny full credit for the Cotto. fight. The way he beat Cotto down was something I didn't expect. That was probably the best performance of his career and it would have happened even if Cotto was 147...the same way Canelo would of been handled by Floyd if he was at 154.
Dolimite
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 27 2013, 12:23 PM) *
I'm going to start giving out "the Shaq face of the day" on here lol....how one can argue that Pacquaio's run to being an 8 division world champ wasn't over hyped is beyond foolish.

Let's look at facts here

ODLH, in his prime he would've dusted Manny and maybe, just maybe he would've beat Mayweather. But when he fought Manny it was over for him. He looked like shit against Steve Frobes, and he was weight drained. Manny's own trainer, Freddie Roach was talking about he knew they had it in the bag when they saw the IV marks

Then he fights Hatton who was a shell of himself after being KO'd by Mayweather. Who also looked like shit in his wins over Lazcano and Malinaggi. Then he fights Manny and gets world starred

Then he fights Cotto, who got murdered damn near by Margarito. Then Miguel comes back and looks like shit against Michael Jennings, and then turns in a performance in which I, and many others thought he lost against Joshua Clottey. He was getting worked over something serious in that fight and probably only got the nod because he's a name who had a big fight lined up. Then he's drained coming into the fight with Manny. Say what you want about the Canelo fight but it's different when your in your early 20's as opposed to almost or at the other side of 30. And he got beat badly the year before and looked like a shell of himself sine that fight.

Now we have Clottey, who I don't think it was fixed but he just shelled up. After this came the Margarito fight, this is the guy who was never the same after plaster gate, Got beat soundly by Shane and looked like trash against Roberto Garcia, then fights Manny and has his eye fucked something serious

Notice a pattern here, stop me when I'm lying but who has he fought that's looked good in their previous fights? They've all looked like trash coming into their fights with him. Including Tim, his first fight under the TR banner was less then stellar on the performance side by him and he still hung in there and made a supposed elite fighter look ordinary. Manny didn't beat him convincingly, how does that happen when you only fight 30 secs to a min of every round. The more I look at that fight the more Manny deserved to lose

Shane was done, coming off a loss and a draw. JMM in the eyes of many, beat him in the 3rd fight, Bradley lost imo but Manny didn't help his case. He's known for activity but didn't show any. Then he gets the best sleep he'll ever have against Marquez and low and behold he comes back to boxing fighting Brandon Rios whose coming off of a loss and should have lost to Abril. He should've been 1-2 coming into that fight and he fought like a fighter whose 1-2 in his last 3 bouts

I just want to know when he started his run, who did Manny Pacquiao face that looked impressive in their previous outings. I'm a fan of Manny, he's good for boxing, and I feel bad about his current tax troubles, but his career over the weight of 135 is weak


+1 :llI honestly think that he lost against MAB in their second fight . Manny,'s career has more questions than answers.
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 27 2013, 02:49 PM) *
Like I said, you want to give Floyd full credit for beating Canelo and Manny little credit for beating Cotto. It amazes me that you can't even be consistent. Floyd plays by 1 set of rules in your eyes while Manny plays by another. Both Canelo and Cotto had to drop weight by 2 pounds prior to the fight, yet somehow Cotto was in such a compromising situation because he was 27 while Canelo was 24? What the heck kind of logic is that?

The lack of logic by you is insane. Does Manny have 1 legitimate win in the 140 or 147 pound division? I mean literally...just 1? I can't believe the lengths you go to to try and discredit Manny's wins against 140 and 147 pound fighters. You just won't allow yourself to admit that Manny has been outstanding against those 140 and 147 pounders.

Like I said, even if you take away wins against Oscar, Mosley, Margarito, and Cotto, Manny still has wins over LEGITIMATE 140/147 guys like Clottey, Hatton, Rios, and Bradley (assuming we all admit Manny won that fight). I give Manny full credit for the Cotto. fight. The way he beat Cotto down was something I didn't expect. That was probably the best performance of his career and it would have happened even if Cotto was 147...the same way Canelo would of been handled by Floyd if he was at 154.

how many opponents of Floyd's before fighting him had controversy leading up to their fight? Manny is an exciting fighter but his opponents a la Rios, Margarito etc were tailor made for him. Answer this, why did Manny refuse testing? That is what makes me question his entire career.
Cshel86
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 27 2013, 01:43 AM) *
Just terrible. I would never not give Floyd credit for beating guys like Canelo and JMM. Floyd won so convincingly against those 2 that the extra advantages he had mean nothing. The same goes for Manny. These excuses are so bad that I almost don't believe you are serious.

-Manny knocked Morales out in the final 2 fights. There isn't much debate there. Morals wasn't as good as he once was, but Manny still finished him off.

-The fights with JMM were all really close, I agree. Manny still went 2-1-1 against him and even the draw is controversial because one judge forgot how many times Manny knocked JMM down in the 1st round. If he gets that number right, Manny is 3-1 against JMM. With that being said I am perfectly fine with 2-1-1 because the 2 wins he had later were both really close.

-Oscar was drained, but Manny put a whipping on him. Like you said, the weight was OSCAR'S decision. I will say that the Oscar fight is the only Manny fight where I think the outcome may be different if they fought at a different weight. I still would pick Manny, but it would have been a much more competitive fight.

-Ricky had the same chin against Floyd. Do we not give Floyd credit for that win because Ricky had no chin? Manny DUSTED Ricky.

-Manny dominated Cotto. Cotto dropped 2 pounds but so did Canelo for the fight against Floyd and I still give Floyd full credit. Manny KO's Cotto at 147 the same way he did at 145.

-The Clottey fight was rigged? Are you serious? Clottey was a legitimate 147 pounder...a tough fighter that handled Zab Judah and damn near beat Cotto. Manny put a WHIPPING on him.

-Margarito got his head caved in by Manny. Manny almost took that man's vision. Margarito wasn't beating Manny at any weight. That was a really lopsided fight.

-Mosley was old, but Manny still beat him with ease

-I am glad we both agree about the Bradley fight

-Rios may have been a perfect match for Manny but that doesn't take away from the victory. Rios is no punk and Manny won almost every round of the fight

I can't think of many 140-147 pound fighters that could beat Manny over the last 10 years except Mayweather. I would LOVE to see Manny get in the ring with Garcia, Broner, Maidana, etc but that obviously won't happen. I don't see how anyone could think Manny at 140 or 147 is a fraud after his fights against Rios and Bradley. Those are 2 Top-10 147 pound fighters and he won both fights rather convincingly. Hopefully the rematch with Bradley happens so this whole thing can be put to bed.

How did he beat Mosley with ease, when he couldn't even cut off the ring??? My pride, manhood, or religion, wont allow me to go back and watch that fight, but your logic about him beating Shane with ease, is questionable at best.

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 27 2013, 02:23 PM) *
I'm going to start giving out "the Shaq face of the day" on here lol....how one can argue that Pacquaio's run to being an 8 division world champ wasn't over hyped is beyond foolish.

Let's look at facts here

ODLH, in his prime he would've dusted Manny and maybe, just maybe he would've beat Mayweather. But when he fought Manny it was over for him. He looked like shit against Steve Frobes, and he was weight drained. Manny's own trainer, Freddie Roach was talking about he knew they had it in the bag when they saw the IV marks

Then he fights Hatton who was a shell of himself after being KO'd by Mayweather. Who also looked like shit in his wins over Lazcano and Malinaggi. Then he fights Manny and gets world starred

Then he fights Cotto, who got murdered damn near by Margarito. Then Miguel comes back and looks like shit against Michael Jennings, and then turns in a performance in which I, and many others thought he lost against Joshua Clottey. He was getting worked over something serious in that fight and probably only got the nod because he's a name who had a big fight lined up. Then he's drained coming into the fight with Manny. Say what you want about the Canelo fight but it's different when your in your early 20's as opposed to almost or at the other side of 30. And he got beat badly the year before and looked like a shell of himself sine that fight.

Now we have Clottey, who I don't think it was fixed but he just shelled up. After this came the Margarito fight, this is the guy who was never the same after plaster gate, Got beat soundly by Shane and looked like trash against Roberto Garcia, then fights Manny and has his eye fucked something serious

Notice a pattern here, stop me when I'm lying but who has he fought that's looked good in their previous fights? They've all looked like trash coming into their fights with him. Including Tim, his first fight under the TR banner was less then stellar on the performance side by him and he still hung in there and made a supposed elite fighter look ordinary. Manny didn't beat him convincingly, how does that happen when you only fight 30 secs to a min of every round. The more I look at that fight the more Manny deserved to lose

Shane was done, coming off a loss and a draw. JMM in the eyes of many, beat him in the 3rd fight, Bradley lost imo but Manny didn't help his case. He's known for activity but didn't show any. Then he gets the best sleep he'll ever have against Marquez and low and behold he comes back to boxing fighting Brandon Rios whose coming off of a loss and should have lost to Abril. He should've been 1-2 coming into that fight and he fought like a fighter whose 1-2 in his last 3 bouts

I just want to know when he started his run, who did Manny Pacquiao face that looked impressive in their previous outings. I'm a fan of Manny, he's good for boxing, and I feel bad about his current tax troubles, but his career over the weight of 135 is weak

I HATE this post...it just makes too much sense. Get outta here with these facts...how dare you.
mrchitown
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 27 2013, 03:49 PM) *
Like I said, you want to give Floyd full credit for beating Canelo and Manny little credit for beating Cotto. It amazes me that you can't even be consistent. Floyd plays by 1 set of rules in your eyes while Manny plays by another. Both Canelo and Cotto had to drop weight by 2 pounds prior to the fight, yet somehow Cotto was in such a compromising situation because he was 27 while Canelo was 24? What the heck kind of logic is that?

The lack of logic by you is insane. Does Manny have 1 legitimate win in the 140 or 147 pound division? I mean literally...just 1? I can't believe the lengths you go to to try and discredit Manny's wins against 140 and 147 pound fighters. You just won't allow yourself to admit that Manny has been outstanding against those 140 and 147 pounders.

Like I said, even if you take away wins against Oscar, Mosley, Margarito, and Cotto, Manny still has wins over LEGITIMATE 140/147 guys like Clottey, Hatton, Rios, and Bradley (assuming we all admit Manny won that fight). I give Manny full credit for the Cotto. fight. The way he beat Cotto down was something I didn't expect. That was probably the best performance of his career and it would have happened even if Cotto was 147...the same way Canelo would of been handled by Floyd if he was at 154.


He has wins over all those guys, whether I or anyone else agree that their legitimate or not. But that doesn't change the facts. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings but dude isn't as good as you make him out to be. He's a HOFer no doubt. But like Floyd, I think his best work was in lower weight classes. But I'd take Floyd's resume at the higher weights over Manny. You calling me insane because I disagree with you but you didn't dispute anything I said, NOT ONE. True or False, did Manny fight those fighters mentioned, coming off of good performances?


We all know the answer to it just you don't want to admit it. I'm not giving him little credit either, I'm telling you the truth but like a snubbed teenager at prom, you just don't want to face the facts. This man has NOT fought 1 boxer who, in his previous fight had a good performance. I give Manny props for what he's done, because if he was trash then he would've lost those fights but for me, there's an asterisk over some of his wins because there shady...at least Mayweather gives the illusion that the fighter he's facing has a chance, they're usually coming off of great performances. Maybe if Manny could do that his PPV numbers wouldn't be so shitty

And since you brought up Cotto and Canelo. I can tell you know jack shit about sports and probably haven't played one before. The older you get the harder it is to drop weight. And he wasn't 27, he was 29 when they fought...Cotto is 33 now. Get your facts straight if you gon debate with me rookie. Don't act like Cotto was turning in top notch performances going into that fight. He was beaten down barely a year ago, and got touched up something serious against Clottey. You trying to twist shit to fit your point of view...and in the last 10yrs I'd put Shane, Floyd, Miguel, Paul Williams, and Margarito and a few others over Manny at 147. Imagine Pacquiao in the ring with P Will....shiiiiiit lmao

You dumb as shit to compare a young 23yr old dropping 2lbs to someone whose been at a weight class as long as Cotto was and up in age as he was. I can tell you no jack shit about an athlete's body. However I do agree that we can put an asterisk over many fighters, that's one thing we can agree on, and he did beat Tim in my opinion

But You get my inaugural Shaq face of the day for that bullshit you in here spewing....



mrchitown
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 27 2013, 07:42 PM) *
How did he beat Mosley with ease, when he couldn't even cut off the ring??? My pride, manhood, or religion, wont allow me to go back and watch that fight, but your logic about him beating Shane with ease, is questionable at best.


I HATE this post...it just makes too much sense. Get outta here with these facts...how dare you.


That was when I stopped buying TR PPV's..I place equal blame on all parties. TR for doing what they do best which is putting on the worse undercard bouts in the history of the sport and selling Mosley to us like he was rejuvenated coming off of his draw against Sergio Mora. I blame Pacquiao for showing compassion to Shane when I believe he could've stopped him. All that glove tapping and bullshit he was doing. He took his foot off the gas but when that suspect knockdown happened he woke up. I blame Shane for everything lol


I'm just doing my best Angel Garcia, speaking the troof lol
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 27 2013, 04:45 PM) *
+1 :llI honestly think that he lost against MAB in their second fight . Manny,'s career has more questions than answers.
.



Nobody wants to admit things about certain fighters but I don't favor one or the other. The truth is the truth. I Think the writing was on the wall, he busted up Margarito something serious and Margarito barely landed on him and still he was almost knocked out. Those body shots were killing him and Manny hasn't looked the same since he fought Margarito in 2010. The proof is in his performances since then, just look at the tape. Dude has fallen off...that's not hate it's just the truth. I think Floyd has slipped a bit too but he's smarter then everybody else so he will always give himself a chance to win the fight

mgrover
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 27 2013, 06:43 AM) *
Just terrible. I would never not give Floyd credit for beating guys like Canelo and JMM. Floyd won so convincingly against those 2 that the extra advantages he had mean nothing. The same goes for Manny. These excuses are so bad that I almost don't believe you are serious.

-Manny knocked Morales out in the final 2 fights. There isn't much debate there. Morals wasn't as good as he once was, but Manny still finished him off. He lost to Morales in Morales prime, nuff said.

-The fights with JMM were all really close, I agree. Manny still went 2-1-1 against him and even the draw is controversial because one judge forgot how many times Manny knocked JMM down in the 1st round. If he gets that number right, Manny is 3-1 against JMM. With that being said I am perfectly fine with 2-1-1 because the 2 wins he had later were both really close. Sure but that KO defined it all, I agree first fight was Mannys but thats boxing, why the dick did nobody appeal that shit.

-Oscar was drained, but Manny put a whipping on him. Like you said, the weight was OSCAR'S decision. I will say that the Oscar fight is the only Manny fight where I think the outcome may be different if they fought at a different weight. I still would pick Manny, but it would have been a much more competitive fight. Haven't seen Oscar enough to be able to really say what would of happened.

-Ricky had the same chin against Floyd. Do we not give Floyd credit for that win because Ricky had no chin? Manny DUSTED Ricky. Ricky was not the same man after the Mayweather fight, cracked chin and all. Maybe it's not Mannys fault but still he bloated and drained his body and thats what you get.

-Manny dominated Cotto. Cotto dropped 2 pounds but so did Canelo for the fight against Floyd and I still give Floyd full credit. Manny KO's Cotto at 147 the same way he did at 145. I don't give anybody credit for a catchweight, end of story

-The Clottey fight was rigged? Are you serious? Clottey was a legitimate 147 pounder...a tough fighter that handled Zab Judah and damn near beat Cotto. Manny put a WHIPPING on him. Exactly Clottey does all that in those fights and simply hides away in this one? and Mannys face still looks sore at the end? Theres an interview of him on YouTube somewhere that said "That day I wasn't supposed to win" Out of his own mouth.

-Margarito got his head caved in by Manny. Manny almost took that man's vision. Margarito wasn't beating Manny at any weight. That was a really lopsided fight. Manny was definitley hurt from those body shots, and he's been KOed by bodyshots so its not a stretch of imagination that 4lb could of KOed Manny

-Mosley was old, but Manny still beat him with ease. It was ease in a weird way, because Mosley hardly touched Manny but he caused him so much trouble for crying out loud

-I am glad we both agree about the Bradley fight

-Rios may have been a perfect match for Manny but that doesn't take away from the victory. Rios is no punk and Manny won almost every round of the figh. t Rios is exactly that motherfucker couldnt even make weight without Diuretics

I can't think of many 140-147 pound fighters that could beat Manny over the last 10 years except Mayweather. I would LOVE to see Manny get in the ring with Garcia, Broner, Maidana, etc but that obviously won't happen. I don't see how anyone could think Manny at 140 or 147 is a fraud after his fights against Rios and Bradley. Those are 2 Top-10 147 pound fighters and he won both fights rather convincingly. Hopefully the rematch with Bradley happens so this whole thing can be put to bed.


I think he'd beat Garcia, Broner and Maidana. The only guy that may get the win is Garcia and that's because of his power and boxing ability, but Broner clearly can't fight well on the back foot and if he tries to walk Manny down he'll take combinations to the face and by the time he tries to counter Manny will be at one side of him. Maidana will get the Khan treatment again.

Never mentioned Floyd but I can break him down just as easy.

Canelo - Slow plodder forward, hand made for Floyd, also its highly arguable he lost his last fight vs Austin, also Canelo had one fuck of a padded record. Also catchweight so fuck Floyd fucking hypocrite.
Cotto - shop worn and Mayweather still couldn't put him away. Mayweather can say what he likes wether it be he wanted to give fans a good fight or whatever, but really then he lost that mental edge and fought somebody elses fight.

Guerrero - Who the fuck is this guy? Talks himself into the fight, he was there to make Mayweather look good.
Ortiz - Bullshit on both ends.
Mosley - Too old end of.
Marquez - Too weight blown, and can't fight offensively.


As Mayweather says, easy work.

I love how people criticize Pac and say oh these guys are tailor made for him, But really every single one of the guys in that list are tailor made for Mayweather since there all aggressors, the majority of those guys simply come forward, and the guy that could fight on the backfoot,Marquez, was too bloated. too slow.

End of story

Also nobody answered my question, how come Bob Arum made the DelaHoya fight but Mayweather has a problem with him?

PS

Check this out to what draining weight does to people

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2013/...cut-weight-ufc/
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 27 2013, 08:22 PM) *
Never mentioned Floyd but I can break him down just as easy.

Canelo - Slow plodder forward, hand made for Floyd, also its highly arguable he lost his last fight vs Austin, also Canelo had one fuck of a padded record. Also catchweight so fuck Floyd fucking hypocrite.
Cotto - shop worn and Mayweather still couldn't put him away.
Guerrero - Who the fuck is this guy? Talks himself into the fight, he was there to make Mayweather look good.
Ortiz - Bullshit on both ends.
Mosley - Too old end of.
Marquez - Too weight blown, and can't fight offensively.


As Mayweather says, easy work.

I love how people criticize Pac and say oh these guys are tailor made for him, But really every single one of the guys in that list are tailor made for Mayweather since there all aggressors.

End of story

Also nobody answered my question, how come Bob Arum made the DelaHoya fight but Mayweather has a problem with him?


He know his golden goose would get his ass kicked. He jumped at the Oscar fight but he talk in circles about a fight between Manny and Floyd

And we can all criticize all day but the truth is still, Floyd has a better resume at the higher weight classes then Pacquiao
mgrover
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 28 2013, 02:27 AM) *
He know his golden goose would get his ass kicked. He jumped at the Oscar fight but he talk in circles about a fight between Manny and Floyd

And we can all criticize all day but the truth is still, Floyd has a better resume at the higher weight classes then Pacquiao


That seems more because Pac stayed at the lower classes for longer. While Mayweather hung around 140 and what not for a longer time.
mrchitown
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 27 2013, 08:37 PM) *
That seems more because Pac stayed at the lower classes for longer. While Mayweather hung around 140 and what not for a longer time.


Good point
checkleft
Like I said in my previous post almost any fight in boxing can be given an asterisk.
KOpower
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 27 2013, 08:54 PM) *
He has wins over all those guys, whether I or anyone else agree that their legitimate or not. But that doesn't change the facts. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings but dude isn't as good as you make him out to be. He's a HOFer no doubt. But like Floyd, I think his best work was in lower weight classes. But I'd take Floyd's resume at the higher weights over Manny. You calling me insane because I disagree with you but you didn't dispute anything I said, NOT ONE. True or False, did Manny fight those fighters mentioned, coming off of good performances?


We all know the answer to it just you don't want to admit it. I'm not giving him little credit either, I'm telling you the truth but like a snubbed teenager at prom, you just don't want to face the facts. This man has NOT fought 1 boxer who, in his previous fight had a good performance. I give Manny props for what he's done, because if he was trash then he would've lost those fights but for me, there's an asterisk over some of his wins because there shady...at least Mayweather gives the illusion that the fighter he's facing has a chance, they're usually coming off of great performances. Maybe if Manny could do that his PPV numbers wouldn't be so shitty

And since you brought up Cotto and Canelo. I can tell you know jack shit about sports and probably haven't played one before. The older you get the harder it is to drop weight. And he wasn't 27, he was 29 when they fought...Cotto is 33 now. Get your facts straight if you gon debate with me rookie. Don't act like Cotto was turning in top notch performances going into that fight. He was beaten down barely a year ago, and got touched up something serious against Clottey. You trying to twist shit to fit your point of view...and in the last 10yrs I'd put Shane, Floyd, Miguel, Paul Williams, and Margarito and a few others over Manny at 147. Imagine Pacquiao in the ring with P Will....shiiiiiit lmao

You dumb as shit to compare a young 23yr old dropping 2lbs to someone whose been at a weight class as long as Cotto was and up in age as he was. I can tell you no jack shit about an athlete's body. However I do agree that we can put an asterisk over many fighters, that's one thing we can agree on, and he did beat Tim in my opinion


I dispute everything you say. Cotto was coming off of a win over a very tough Clottey and he was a few fights removed from the Margarito contest. Hatton beat Paulie. Bradley hasn't lost and he had recent wins over Devon Alexander and Lamont Peterson. The problem is you are just going to come back with some retarded excuse for each boxer and the circle just continues.

You give Floyd Mayweather a pass for making Canelo fight 2 pounds under and you pretty much consider Manny's win over Cotto void because he made Cotto fight 2 pounds under. If this is the person I am dealing with, it speaks volumes. Mayweather's resume at 140/147 absolutely trumps Manny's. Floyd is the better fighter. The problem is that Floyd fans feel the need to try and tear down Manny at any turn.
KOpower
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 27 2013, 09:22 PM) *
I think he'd beat Garcia, Broner and Maidana. The only guy that may get the win is Garcia and that's because of his power and boxing ability, but Broner clearly can't fight well on the back foot and if he tries to walk Manny down he'll take combinations to the face and by the time he tries to counter Manny will be at one side of him. Maidana will get the Khan treatment again.

Never mentioned Floyd but I can break him down just as easy.

Canelo - Slow plodder forward, hand made for Floyd, also its highly arguable he lost his last fight vs Austin, also Canelo had one fuck of a padded record. Also catchweight so fuck Floyd fucking hypocrite.
Cotto - shop worn and Mayweather still couldn't put him away. Mayweather can say what he likes wether it be he wanted to give fans a good fight or whatever, but really then he lost that mental edge and fought somebody elses fight.

Guerrero - Who the fuck is this guy? Talks himself into the fight, he was there to make Mayweather look good.
Ortiz - Bullshit on both ends.
Mosley - Too old end of.
Marquez - Too weight blown, and can't fight offensively.


As Mayweather says, easy work.

I love how people criticize Pac and say oh these guys are tailor made for him, But really every single one of the guys in that list are tailor made for Mayweather since there all aggressors, the majority of those guys simply come forward, and the guy that could fight on the backfoot,Marquez, was too bloated. too slow.

End of story

Also nobody answered my question, how come Bob Arum made the DelaHoya fight but Mayweather has a problem with him?

PS

Check this out to what draining weight does to people

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2013/...cut-weight-ufc/


Ok, I think we get to the same destination but we just take different routes to get there. I give both Floyd and Manny more credit in their wins. I can respect this because you are being fair and honest on both sides. -
mgrover
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 28 2013, 07:13 AM) *
Ok, I think we get to the same destination but we just take different routes to get there. I give both Floyd and Manny more credit in their wins. I can respect this because you are being fair and honest on both sides. -


Fair enough I can respect that, but what you said about Hatton beating Paulie, course he beat Paulie since Paulie has pillows for hands lol
mrchitown
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 28 2013, 01:05 AM) *
I dispute everything you say. Cotto was coming off of a win over a very tough Clottey and he was a few fights removed from the Margarito contest. Hatton beat Paulie. Bradley hasn't lost and he had recent wins over Devon Alexander and Lamont Peterson. The problem is you are just going to come back with some retarded excuse for each boxer and the circle just continues.

You give Floyd Mayweather a pass for making Canelo fight 2 pounds under and you pretty much consider Manny's win over Cotto void because he made Cotto fight 2 pounds under. If this is the person I am dealing with, it speaks volumes. Mayweather's resume at 140/147 absolutely trumps Manny's. Floyd is the better fighter. The problem is that Floyd fans feel the need to try and tear down Manny at any turn.


See this is why you got the Shaq face. Where is this Floyd stuff and credit coming from. I give Manny credit if you were reading. For beating all those guys. But I dispute with anyone that his resume above the lighter weight classes is something to marvel at. Because it's not true. Don't bring up Clotted because many felt he lost, Manny got cheated in that Bradley fight. So I give him the win there

You sucking the dude off but I don't do that. I'm a fan of the sport and I know world class trainers including one of the fighters you mentioned who will say the same thing. You still haven't answered my question so I won't even bother. But don't cone at me with this Floyd fan, Manny fan bullshit. Crying like a first grader because nobody agrees with you opinion...save that for the Internet fan boys. just because someone states their opinion doesn't mean they hate the guy or they fans of Floyd over Manny. Did you ever consider that maybe they're just stating their opinion on the said athlete. You can't even c say anything about an athlete now without that athlete's fan mail president throwing a bitch fit like the one your throwing

The fact is he never fought anyone coming off an impressive performance. I asked you that 3 times and you said nothing. Both Manny and Floyd deserve credit for what they've done but they have questionable things on both their resumes. It's not about tearing dude down its about speaking your truth and I always speak mine. You diminish your credibility with that fan stuff because in truth it makes you look like the very thing you railing against

I don't see anything impressive about Pacquiao's run at 140 and up. I think he was matched more carefully then some say Floyd cherry picks. He has yet to face a boxer at 140 and above that was impressive or looked to pose a threat to him in their previous fight. That's just the truth. Cotto looked like trash against Jennings and Clottey and I among many others felt he lost. You say he was far removed from the Margarito fight but that type of beating doesn't go away, this is why I know you don't know much of what your talking about when it comes to boxing. I could point out so much shit to you but you wouldn't process it because your so wrapped up in thinking people are bashing your secret crush....at the end of not all, go back and check my points. Especially about him not fighting boxers looking good in their previous bouts, you will be the one who looks retarded
mrchitown
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 28 2013, 12:05 AM) *
Like I said in my previous post almost any fight in boxing can be given an asterisk.


True. The dude in your sig has a few asterisks next to his resume imo lol
Dolimite
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 28 2013, 11:42 AM) *
See this is why you got the Shaq face. Where is this Floyd stuff and credit coming from. I give Manny credit if you were reading. For beating all those guys. But I dispute with anyone that his resume above the lighter weight classes is something to marvel at. Because it's not true. Don't bring up Clotted because many felt he lost, Manny got cheated in that Bradley fight. So I give him the win there

You sucking the dude off but I don't do that. I'm a fan of the sport and I know world class trainers including one of the fighters you mentioned who will say the same thing. You still haven't answered my question so I won't even bother. But don't cone at me with this Floyd fan, Manny fan bullshit. Crying like a first grader because nobody agrees with you opinion...save that for the Internet fan boys. just because someone states their opinion doesn't mean they hate the guy or they fans of Floyd over Manny. Did you ever consider that maybe they're just stating their opinion on the said athlete. You can't even c say anything about an athlete now without that athlete's fan mail president throwing a bitch fit like the one your throwing

The fact is he never fought anyone coming off an impressive performance. I asked you that 3 times and you said nothing. Both Manny and Floyd deserve credit for what they've done but they have questionable things on both their resumes. It's not about tearing dude down its about speaking your truth and I always speak mine. You diminish your credibility with that fan stuff because in truth it makes you look like the very thing you railing against

I don't see anything impressive about Pacquiao's run at 140 and up. I think he was matched more carefully then some say Floyd cherry picks. He has yet to face a boxer at 140 and above that was impressive or looked to pose a threat to him in their previous fight. That's just the truth. Cotto looked like trash against Jennings and Clottey and I among many others felt he lost. You say he was far removed from the Margarito fight but that type of beating doesn't go away, this is why I know you don't know much of what your talking about when it comes to boxing. I could point out so much shit to you but you wouldn't process it because your so wrapped up in thinking people are bashing your secret crush....at the end of not all, go back and check my points. Especially about him not fighting boxers looking good in their previous bouts, you will be the one who looks retarded
h

what pisses me off about is, people feel that Manny cannot and should not be criticized for anything dealing with his career. everthing has done is perfect. When someone doesn't fight Manny, then they are scared, but if Manny does not want to fight, its his right not fight. Manny has had a great career and he is going to the hall of fame hands down. however, his wins from 08 until now, are not as stellar his fans make them to be
Manny has terrible defense footwork is average at best. He has heart but he isn't a complete fighter. His fans make him out to be Mother Teresa. it is sucks that one fighter is all they know.
Cshel86
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 28 2013, 02:05 AM) *
I dispute everything you say. Cotto was coming off of a win over a very tough Clottey and he was a few fights removed from the Margarito contest. Hatton beat Paulie. Bradley hasn't lost and he had recent wins over Devon Alexander and Lamont Peterson. The problem is you are just going to come back with some retarded excuse for each boxer and the circle just continues.

You give Floyd Mayweather a pass for making Canelo fight 2 pounds under and you pretty much consider Manny's win over Cotto void because he made Cotto fight 2 pounds under. If this is the person I am dealing with, it speaks volumes. Mayweather's resume at 140/147 absolutely trumps Manny's. Floyd is the better fighter. The problem is that Floyd fans feel the need to try and tear down Manny at any turn.



Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 27 2013, 09:22 PM) *
I think he'd beat Garcia, Broner and Maidana. The only guy that may get the win is Garcia and that's because of his power and boxing ability, but Broner clearly can't fight well on the back foot and if he tries to walk Manny down he'll take combinations to the face and by the time he tries to counter Manny will be at one side of him. Maidana will get the Khan treatment again.

Never mentioned Floyd but I can break him down just as easy.

Canelo - Slow plodder forward, hand made for Floyd, also its highly arguable he lost his last fight vs Austin, also Canelo had one fuck of a padded record. Also catchweight so fuck Floyd fucking hypocrite.
Cotto - shop worn and Mayweather still couldn't put him away. Mayweather can say what he likes wether it be he wanted to give fans a good fight or whatever, but really then he lost that mental edge and fought somebody elses fight.

Guerrero - Who the fuck is this guy? Talks himself into the fight, he was there to make Mayweather look good.
Ortiz - Bullshit on both ends.
Mosley - Too old end of.
Marquez - Too weight blown, and can't fight offensively.


As Mayweather says, easy work.

I love how people criticize Pac and say oh these guys are tailor made for him, But really every single one of the guys in that list are tailor made for Mayweather since there all aggressors, the majority of those guys simply come forward, and the guy that could fight on the backfoot,Marquez, was too bloated. too slow.

End of story

Also nobody answered my question, how come Bob Arum made the DelaHoya fight but Mayweather has a problem with him?

PS

Check this out to what draining weight does to people

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2013/...cut-weight-ufc/

Man MG, you're starting to sound like that teenager KOPower, really. NOW, the same arguments about Manny's opponents of choice, can be made about Floyd's (as you've done above). The only difference is, these guys were coming off of WINS.

Canelo- Of course guys are crying about the 2 pound catchweight, but Canelo came in at 153.5 for the Trout fight, which is only a half lb under the weight limits. Guys defend Manny's 2 lb catchweight against Cotto, and say that Cotto came into the Clottey fight at 146, so the ONE lb shouldn't have made a difference. I guess it's just a difference of opinions here.

Cotto- why hate on that fight? So, was he in ELITE shape for the Manny fight??? Didn't think so. How can say that Floyd couldn't put him away? How long has it been since Floyd's legitimately KO'd somebody??? C'mon now MG...

Guerrero- I didn't fully agree with that fight either, but he was coming off of two wins. The same could be said about Bradley when he fought Manny...who is/was he? Didn't Bradley "talk himself" into a Manny fight???

Ortiz- why hate on this fight? Ortiz/Berto was easily FOTY in 2011, and that was the biggest statement of Ortiz's career (the Berto fight). I didn't agree with the way it ended, but under the circumstances in which it was made...no problem there.

Mosley- Let's cut the "he was too old" stuff, please. He had a good round, and got outgunned for the rest of the fight. had he stopped Floyd in the 2nd, the people would've been singing his praises. Oh, let me take that back, they would've just clowned Floyd for getting starched by an old guy. So it's good enough for him to be "old", had he stopped Floyd, but it's not good enough for him to be "old", when he clocked Floyd in the 2nd, but couldn't do anything else with him for 10 more rounds???? C'mon now...

Marquez- I agree with you...I hated the fact that it even took place. No argument there. People can stretch the story by praising Floyd's performance after 2 years off, but hell, that's like praising Razor Ramon for a "flawless" performance after 2 years, against the likes of Rey Mysterio. Lol

Again, we can all poke holes in both guys' resume, but the fact is, Manny's opponents were coming off of LOSSES (excluding Bradley), and Floyd's opponents were coming off of WINS.

mgrover
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 29 2013, 12:06 AM) *
Man MG, you're starting to sound like that teenager KOPower, really. NOW, the same arguments about Manny's opponents of choice, can be made about Floyd's (as you've done above). The only difference is, these guys were coming off of WINS.

Canelo- Of course guys are crying about the 2 pound catchweight, but Canelo came in at 153.5 for the Trout fight, which is only a half lb under the weight limits. Guys defend Manny's 2 lb catchweight against Cotto, and say that Cotto came into the Clottey fight at 146, so the ONE lb shouldn't have made a difference. I guess it's just a difference of opinions here.

Cotto- why hate on that fight? So, was he in ELITE shape for the Manny fight??? Didn't think so. How can say that Floyd couldn't put him away? How long has it been since Floyd's legitimately KO'd somebody??? C'mon now MG...

Guerrero- I didn't fully agree with that fight either, but he was coming off of two wins. The same could be said about Bradley when he fought Manny...who is/was he? Didn't Bradley "talk himself" into a Manny fight???

Ortiz- why hate on this fight? Ortiz/Berto was easily FOTY in 2011, and that was the biggest statement of Ortiz's career (the Berto fight). I didn't agree with the way it ended, but under the circumstances in which it was made...no problem there.

Mosley- Let's cut the "he was too old" stuff, please. He had a good round, and got outgunned for the rest of the fight. had he stopped Floyd in the 2nd, the people would've been singing his praises. Oh, let me take that back, they would've just clowned Floyd for getting starched by an old guy. So it's good enough for him to be "old", had he stopped Floyd, but it's not good enough for him to be "old", when he clocked Floyd in the 2nd, but couldn't do anything else with him for 10 more rounds???? C'mon now...

Marquez- I agree with you...I hated the fact that it even took place. No argument there. People can stretch the story by praising Floyd's performance after 2 years off, but hell, that's like praising Razor Ramon for a "flawless" performance after 2 years, against the likes of Rey Mysterio. Lol

Again, we can all poke holes in both guys' resume, but the fact is, Manny's opponents were coming off of LOSSES (excluding Bradley), and Floyd's opponents were coming off of WINS.


Because it was still the same opponents, I don't know why people instantly put a * next to a win because the dude came off a loss before. Does that mean just because a guy came off a loss it means he has to lose his next fight?
Dolimite
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 28 2013, 04:28 PM) *
Because it was still the same opponents, I don't know why people instantly put a * next to a win because the dude came off a loss before. Does that mean just because a guy came off a loss it means he has to lose his next fight?

If Floyd picked Paulie M. to fight in May after he lost to Broner, what would his reception be? He is already getting hell for even considering fighting Khan we has looked like shit for sometime.

Manny came back and fought who? A C fighter who sucks at making any weight who had never fought at WW. He gets praise at the ass for beating Brandon Rios. They even said he looked better than he ever has.

The double standard for Manny is insane. He fights fighters coming off of strange stipulations. He has yet to have a fight that is not surrounded by some sort of controversy.

Plus he looked less than stellar since the whole blood testing issue has come up. No knock outs or spectacular finishes. He has had stamina issues as well as cramps. Again, for me, he has more questions about his career than answers.
checkleft
QUOTE (KOpower @ Dec 28 2013, 03:05 AM) *
I dispute everything you say. Cotto was coming off of a win over a very tough Clottey and he was a few fights removed from the Margarito contest. Hatton beat Paulie. Bradley hasn't lost and he had recent wins over Devon Alexander and Lamont Peterson. The problem is you are just going to come back with some retarded excuse for each boxer and the circle just continues.

You give Floyd Mayweather a pass for making Canelo fight 2 pounds under and you pretty much consider Manny's win over Cotto void because he made Cotto fight 2 pounds under. If this is the person I am dealing with, it speaks volumes. Mayweather's resume at 140/147 absolutely trumps Manny's. Floyd is the better fighter. The problem is that Floyd fans feel the need to try and tear down Manny at any turn.

Watch this.. cotto was coming off of a very CONTROVERSIAL win over clottey in which he was cut exhausted and did not look good at all, one fight removed from possibly getting plastered by margs. Hatton was depressed under a new trainer who realistically had no business being his trainer based on styles. Bradley was coming off of a very long layoff due to a promotional dispute and after looking like complete garbage in a snoozer against a half retired half drugged up casamayor

Floyd fought an unproven canelo with weight and stamina issues at a 2 pound reduction catchweight after red controversialy beat trout in the "Christmas state" for boxers because they are always handing out gifts..

Like I said you can do it with any fight, this argument has been beaten to death let it rest in a ditch somewhere..
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