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Gambit808
It seems to me like that win for TB was a blessing in disguise for Top Rank's cash cow because had it not had happend, up to this point, Manny would have no legitimate dance partner being that JMM would not fight him for a 5 time. I don't want to be the one throwing out accusations here but it does seem a bit like a Don King move Arum pulled for that fight cause had it had gone down the way most people thought it should have, we wouldn't be talking up a rematch with TB right now since the JMM 5th fight didn't work, we would more than likely see back to back flops for PAC and instead be forced to talk up his own damn stable-mate/sparring partner Ruslan Provodnikov as his next opponent since TR's quality of WW's are far from PPV material like GBP.

Thoughts?
Dolimite
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Dec 27 2013, 03:33 PM) *
It seems to me like that win for TB was a blessing in disguise for Top Rank's cash cow because had it not had happend, up to this point, Manny would have no legitimate dance partner being that JMM would not fight him for a 5 time. I don't want to be the one throwing out accusations here but it does seem a bit like a Don King move Arum pulled for that fight cause had it had gone down the way most people thought it should have, we wouldn't be talking up a rematch with TB right now since the JMM 5th fight didn't work, we would more than likely see back to back flops for PAC and instead be forced to talk up his own damn stable-mate/sparring partner Ruslan Provodnikov as his next opponent since TR's quality of WW's are far from PPV material like GBP.

Thoughts?

The most interesting thing about that fight was the delay before the fight. no cameras were allowed in Pac's locker room. when has Pac ever taken rounds off? After the decision he seemed cool, like he expected it. Not to mention, Bradley was demonized for everything. everything worked in Pac's favor.
Gambit808
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 27 2013, 06:38 PM) *
The most interesting thing about that fight was the delay before the fight. no cameras were allowed in Pac's locker room. when has Pac ever taken rounds off? After the decision he seemed cool, like he expected it. Not to mention, Bradley was demonized for everything. everything worked in Pac's favor.

Yup, and had he'd gotten the decision, I believe that Marquez KO would've been an even more huge blow to TR than it is already, atlease now TB seems to be the most lucrative back up plan for him now, but after that, who's left?
mrchitown
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Dec 27 2013, 04:33 PM) *
It seems to me like that win for TB was a blessing in disguise for Top Rank's cash cow because had it not had happend, up to this point, Manny would have no legitimate dance partner being that JMM would not fight him for a 5 time. I don't want to be the one throwing out accusations here but it does seem a bit like a Don King move Arum pulled for that fight cause had it had gone down the way most people thought it should have, we wouldn't be talking up a rematch with TB right now since the JMM 5th fight didn't work, we would more than likely see back to back flops for PAC and instead be forced to talk up his own damn stable-mate/sparring partner Ruslan Provodnikov as his next opponent since TR's quality of WW's are far from PPV material like GBP.

Thoughts?


If Pacquiao fights Tim again, not only is it going to be a flop like the first one but he's probably going to lose
Gambit808
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 27 2013, 08:09 PM) *
If Pacquiao fights Tim again, not only is it going to be a flop like the first one but he's probably going to lose

What other choice does he have that would do better though?
Cshel86
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Dec 27 2013, 08:16 PM) *
What other choice does he have that would do better though?

Expect a 5th fight...waaaay more "fireworks" (read: promotional material) than a Bradley rematch. Let's see, hmm...Juan just lost a "close" fight to the guy who "beat" Manny last June...in Top Ranks terms...a close (or controversial) loss, is a win, so Juan actually beat Bradley, and Manny actually beat Bradley, lol.

Arum is going to line his pockets when it's all said and done. He's given us enough treats (Chavez/Martinez, Rios/Alvarado 1 & 2, Rigo/Donaire, Bradley/Ruslan, Alvarado/Ruslan)...so yeah...I expect the typical TR wash, rinse, and repeat move next year.
Gambit808
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 27 2013, 08:22 PM) *
Expect a 5th fight...waaaay more "fireworks" (read: promotional material) than a Bradley rematch. Let's see, hmm...Juan just lost a "close" fight to the guy who "beat" Manny last June...in Top Ranks terms...a close (or controversial) loss, is a win, so Juan actually beat Bradley, and Manny actually beat Bradley, lol.

Arum is going to line his pockets when it's all said and done. He's given us enough treats (Chavez/Martinez, Rios/Alvarado 1 & 2, Rigo/Donaire, Bradley/Ruslan, Alvarado/Ruslan)...so yeah...I expect the typical TR wash, rinse, and repeat move next year.

From what I've been reading it don't look like Juan wants the fight, now I can't blaim him for that, but as a fan I'd rather that fight than any other, but it sounds to me like he don't wanna risk another less than stellar/possible screw job performance if he's not able to repeat what he did. I read they offered up a career high 15mil for this fight and he still turned it down.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Dec 27 2013, 08:31 PM) *
From what I've been reading it don't look like Juan wants the fight, now I can't blaim him for that, but as a fan I'd rather that fight than any other, but it sounds to me like he don't wanna risk another less than stellar/possible screw job performance if he's not able to repeat what he did. I read they offered up a career high 15mil for this fight and he still turned it down.

He didn't want the 4th fight either...what is that saying that they use about "history"?

laugh.gif

If they really offered him $15M, then he would've taken the fight, so I cant believe that. How in the world is he clamoring and standing firm on a Bradley rematch (which wont even give him a pubic's hair fraction of $15M), but he doesn't wanna fight a guy that he knows for a 5th time, for $15M?

Juan always does this...he whines, complains, refuses fights, then ends up taking the same fight that he claims he "refuses" to take. LOL
mrchitown
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Dec 27 2013, 07:16 PM) *
What other choice does he have that would do better though?


That's the dilemma now isn't it? I still think a rematch between Bradley and Manny will flop but it will do better numbers then the fight in Macau. The problem with TR is they don't have any fighters in and around 140 and 147. I think they were counting on Vargas and Karim Mayfield but that hasn't worked out
DigitalBoom
They will give Alvarado one more fight at 140 get him a win move him to 147...he will be an option..
There is always Ruslan Provodnikov which would be right up the alley of Pac's fan base but that's dependent on Prov taking the fight...
Bradley of course but I think that fight is more about getting his belts back...possible 3rd fight.

Just in that right there you have four options..if they do two more bradley pacquiao fights for a trilogy granted if Pac wins the rematch and doesn't get score card raped.
There are other promoters Arum does business with so if anyone gets a spark they could always pair him up that way or since he wants to fight in asia again later next year perhaps he can take one of them european welterweight title bouts as well.
truth
Tim beats manny legit next fight jmm walks away from boxing Tim leaves top rank next year and after this tax issue manny may leave if hes smart.which I'm not sure about yet but to the orginal question PAC could've fought provo but i think he would have lost the fight and still does manny is damaged and not just because of the ko the only thing i can contribute it its maybe his heart is not into boxing anymore the wars or peds take your pick
Gambit808
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 27 2013, 08:48 PM) *
He didn't want the 4th fight either...what is that saying that they use about "history"?

laugh.gif

If they really offered him $15M, then he would've taken the fight, so I cant believe that. How in the world is he clamoring and standing firm on a Bradley rematch (which wont even give him a pubic's hair fraction of $15M), but he doesn't wanna fight a guy that he knows for a 5th time, for $15M?

Juan always does this...he whines, complains, refuses fights, then ends up taking the same fight that he claims he "refuses" to take. LOL

Your one of the few on here who usually gets there predictions right so it wouldn't really bother me to take this into account, but at the same time, JMM was on the losing side before the 4th fight, so all the bitching and complaining he was doing then was pretty much justified being that he had the fans to back his argument. This time around he's on the clear cut winning side and Manny's stock dropped. Now, regardless if u makin that "Mayweather money" or not, 15 million (rather offered or not) is still 15 million, especially if u never made that in one night, but Juan's pretty much paid himself too and he's smart in the way he handles his cash compared to Manny, so even if he opted not to take that sort of offer or he's possibly still holding out for a better one, losing out on that deal won't nessasarily have an effect on his current life style.
Gambit808
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 27 2013, 09:19 PM) *
That's the dilemma now isn't it? I still think a rematch between Bradley and Manny will flop but it will do better numbers then the fight in Macau. The problem with TR is they don't have any fighters in and around 140 and 147. I think they were counting on Vargas and Karim Mayfield but that hasn't worked out

Yea, but with Bradley availible in the same type of dilemma after beating Marquez who also defeated PAC, it sort of works itself into an angle with time to work with molding guys like Vargas, Mayfield, or even a Terrence Crawford into that echlelon while we have a possible Pacquiao-Bradley 2 winner facing a possible Marquez-Prodnikov winner.
KOpower
I am hoping the beef between HBO and GBP ends in 2015. If it does, maybe we will see Manny fight a GBP fighter like Broner, Garcia, etc. Pac can get through 2014 by fighting Bradley and then Prov/Marquez in the fall.
mrchitown
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Dec 28 2013, 01:51 AM) *
Yea, but with Bradley availible in the same type of dilemma after beating Marquez who also defeated PAC, it sort of works itself into an angle with time to work with molding guys like Vargas, Mayfield, or even a Terrence Crawford into that echlelon while we have a possible Pacquiao-Bradley 2 winner facing a possible Marquez-Prodnikov winner.


I agree. That's usually how Arum sets things up any way. The messed up thing is I want to see the rematch between Bradley and Pacquiao but I'm afraid he may lose a legit close one this time. Maybe he will prove me wrong but I just got a feeling that Tim may squeak out a win
mrchitown
QUOTE (DigitalBoom @ Dec 27 2013, 10:29 PM) *
They will give Alvarado one more fight at 140 get him a win move him to 147...he will be an option..
There is always Ruslan Provodnikov which would be right up the alley of Pac's fan base but that's dependent on Prov taking the fight...
Bradley of course but I think that fight is more about getting his belts back...possible 3rd fight.

Just in that right there you have four options..if they do two more bradley pacquiao fights for a trilogy granted if Pac wins the rematch and doesn't get score card raped.
There are other promoters Arum does business with so if anyone gets a spark they could always pair him up that way or since he wants to fight in asia again later next year perhaps he can take one of them european welterweight title bouts as well.


Yeah but who does Goosen Dibella, Shaw, Duva, etc have that's going to bring anything to the table. The players in and around Manny's division play ball across the street. It's a tough spot Arum is in. In that regard. That's why we keep seeing these rematches and such being proposed
mgrover
Am curious as for the rematch because what will happen when Pac fights for 3 minutes instead of trying to steal rounds, and how will Bradley be without messed up legs.
Jovi2016
Hmm. I still need to rewatch the bradley fight. When i first saw it i thought Manny got the clear decision but Tim's credit he did survive and i was streaming it on shitty quality so its still up in the air, i havent cared enough to watch it HD yet. I think i may have tried by i fell asleep.

But Bradley and Marquez ppv did 375k-400k veiws, which isnt special but it is important since Pac and Rios ppv did only 500k and may even be lower. a Pacquiao vs Bradley fight will probably keep the number consistent with 500k the variable is Bradley, which i think has added a good amount of stock to his name for the rematch; That Marquez win was big, and it was a blessing in disguise for Pacquiao. The fact is it was close, his ankles were messed up, and apparently Pac could have done better; So there's a cliff hanger to the fight with the decision....I want to see a rematch between the two, but selling it is the focal point which i believe is easier than the Marquez fight at this point.

Marquez doesn't seem like he wants to get punched in the face by Pacquiao no more, he doesn't a broken nose or a cut up face again for the millions, even if he could get 1 punch KO with a less wild Pacquiao. If he would rather face a pillow fisted Bradley whose punches he could walk through for another PPV paycheck, thats all him. Maybe he hasn't spent all his money from his last fights so he's not so desperate, but he will be soon, or he's just waiting for a bigger offer.

What i think will happen. Sorry for my scattered thoughts but when i imagine now is next being Pacquiao vs Bradley 2. Pacquiao should be taking that this time, i think Bradley is more damaged goods than Pacquiao. Convincing win, then either Marquez vs Bradley 2 or go straight to Pacquiao vs Marquez 5. I think only after they both beat bradley in a rematch they should meet up again, highest Paychecks for both at that point.

IF and big IF GBP and TR do business to make a fight again, It most likely be Mayweather vs Pacquiao or Bradley only if Bradley isnt a free agent by then. And even if he is and he lost to Pac and Marquez in the rematch it wouldnt matter because he got the win over them its only value is to show the difference in styles if Mayweather were to Dominate Bradley (the guy who took W over both PAc and Marquez)....2014 will be very very interesting!!
Dolimite
QUOTE (Jovi2016 @ Dec 28 2013, 01:53 PM) *
Hmm. I still need to rewatch the bradley fight. When i first saw it i thought Manny got the clear decision but Tim's credit he did survive and i was streaming it on shitty quality so its still up in the air, i havent cared enough to watch it HD yet. I think i may have tried by i fell asleep.

But Bradley and Marquez ppv did 375k-400k veiws, which isnt special but it is important since Pac and Rios ppv did only 500k and may even be lower. a Pacquiao vs Bradley fight will probably keep the number consistent with 500k the variable is Bradley, which i think has added a good amount of stock to his name for the rematch; That Marquez win was big, and it was a blessing in disguise for Pacquiao. The fact is it was close, his ankles were messed up, and apparently Pac could have done better; So there's a cliff hanger to the fight with the decision....I want to see a rematch between the two, but selling it is the focal point which i believe is easier than the Marquez fight at this point.

Marquez doesn't seem like he wants to get punched in the face by Pacquiao no more, he doesn't a broken nose or a cut up face again for the millions, even if he could get 1 punch KO with a less wild Pacquiao. If he would rather face a pillow fisted Bradley whose punches he could walk through for another PPV paycheck, thats all him. Maybe he hasn't spent all his money from his last fights so he's not so desperate, but he will be soon, or he's just waiting for a bigger offer.

What i think will happen. Sorry for my scattered thoughts but when i imagine now is next being Pacquiao vs Bradley 2. Pacquiao should be taking that this time, i think Bradley is more damaged goods than Pacquiao. Convincing win, then either Marquez vs Bradley 2 or go straight to Pacquiao vs Marquez 5. I think only after they both beat bradley in a rematch they should meet up again, highest Paychecks for both at that point.

IF and big IF GBP and TR do business to make a fight again, It most likely be Mayweather vs Pacquiao or Bradley only if Bradley isnt a free agent by then. And even if he is and he lost to Pac and Marquez in the rematch it wouldnt matter because he got the win over them its only value is to show the difference in styles if Mayweather were to Dominate Bradley (the guy who took W over both PAc and Marquez)....2014 will be very very interesting!!


I swear I feel like I am on boxingscene.com with that statement. Was JMM not handling Pac, did he not knock him down and the second round (or was it the 3rd) round? Why do people act like Pac was just railroading JMM before the knockout. Nevermind that JMM outsmarted Manny into that knockout punch, never mind that he was looking for that punch the entire fight. The only thing that will stand out in their 4 fights is not thar BS you just posted, but Manny taking a fucking nap in the 6 round. Its boxing people get punched in the face. Danny Garcia looked like shit after his fight with Zab, Floyd looked like shit after his fight with Augustus and Cotto. Its boxing, Manny looked like shit after the Margarito and Cotto fight. Bradly looked like shit after the Ruslan fight.

That pillow fist Bradley beat the hard hitting Manny. And Manny's punches did not seem to hurt Bradley too bad. I love how fans discredit every boxer that Manny has lost to. The guy is God and he isn't that great. This is why I hate Manny is because of his fucking fans
checkleft
Marquez doesn't need pac. Pac needs marquez that's the difference

Marquez has nothing else he wants to prove, while pac NEEDS to keep fighting. Maybe not for legacy but for money.

People need to chill with this whole "scared" BS. These guys are professional gladiators of our time, broner took a lot of punishment his last fight and is demanding a rematch immediately against one of the most feared punchers in the game. These guys are not scared of one another
Jovi2016
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 28 2013, 07:53 PM) *
I swear I feel like I am on boxingscene.com with that statement. Was JMM not handling Pac, did he not knock him down and the second round (or was it the 3rd) round? Why do people act like Pac was just railroading JMM before the knockout. Nevermind that JMM outsmarted Manny into that knockout punch, never mind that he was looking for that punch the entire fight. The only thing that will stand out in their 4 fights is not thar BS you just posted, but Manny taking a fucking nap in the 6 round. Its boxing people get punched in the face. Danny Garcia looked like shit after his fight with Zab, Floyd looked like shit after his fight with Augustus and Cotto. Its boxing, Manny looked like shit after the Margarito and Cotto fight. Bradly looked like shit after the Ruslan fight.

That pillow fist Bradley beat the hard hitting Manny. And Manny's punches did not seem to hurt Bradley too bad. I love how fans discredit every boxer that Manny has lost to. The guy is God and he isn't that great. This is why I hate Manny is because of his fucking fans


Me? a Pacquiao fan? Thats new.

I'm not taking away from Marquez at all, i know Marquez is the superior strategist and got the KO on manny through a perfectly planned punch, i won money on that fight. But the way that Marquez won doesnt take away from the fact that he was getting bruised and broken for 40 rounds before that! I'm not saying that Pacquiao was going right through Marquez, but Pacquiao was putting that work on him. You gotta remember Marquez isn't the youngest person anymore and hinted many times at his own retirement, Marquez himself knows that if he fights Pac that if he fights Pac then even though the win is possible itll come with a price. He wont face Mayweather again because of the Humiliation, he wont fight Pac (yet) because of the war that it will take for the W.

Being scared of someone and not wanting to take punishment are 2 different things. He obviously isnt afraid of Pacquiao since he stepped into the ring with him, but Marquez knows he isn't gonna have a flawless win.....And like i said in the last post, i think its more that he's biding his time. He's definitely not in a rush to fight Pac since he most likely gets the KO again through a war....."There's nothing cool about taking punishment."
mgrover
Sure, Bradley would be another guy who talked himself into a fight with Pac that shouldnt of been there
checkleft
QUOTE (Jovi2016 @ Dec 29 2013, 03:20 AM) *
Me? a Pacquiao fan? Thats new.

I'm not taking away from Marquez at all, i know Marquez is the superior strategist and got the KO on manny through a perfectly planned punch, i won money on that fight. But the way that Marquez won doesnt take away from the fact that he was getting bruised and broken for 40 rounds before that! I'm not saying that Pacquiao was going right through Marquez, but Pacquiao was putting that work on him. You gotta remember Marquez isn't the youngest person anymore and hinted many times at his own retirement, Marquez himself knows that if he fights Pac that if he fights Pac then even though the win is possible itll come with a price. He wont face Mayweather again because of the Humiliation, he wont fight Pac (yet) because of the war that it will take for the W.

Being scared of someone and not wanting to take punishment are 2 different things. He obviously isnt afraid of Pacquiao since he stepped into the ring with him, but Marquez knows he isn't gonna have a flawless win.....And like i said in the last post, i think its more that he's biding his time. He's definitely not in a rush to fight Pac since he most likely gets the KO again through a war....."There's nothing cool about taking punishment."

You're trying way to hard.. you seem to know more about marquez then he knows about himself

Btw marquez has won more rounds than pac between their four fights Mr "40" rounds. pac wasn't having a walk in the park either, he got dropped bad before pac knocked Juan down and marquez kd was more so due to balance while pac landed on his back and on his face..
DigitalBoom
Well seems like Pacquaio is coming up out from under that IRS issue they just released that LIEN which means the IRS has started receiving documents it wants and is adjusting (lowering) his debt.
BrutUalBK
This entire Top Rank debacle with Pac and Bradley is a product of Bob Arum's "Protective Matchmaking" (as I call it); Arum always protects his cash and mostly keeps it in house.

Bob tends to match the vast and overwhelming majority of his bouts as Top Rank fighter vs Top Rank fighter and with the Bradley vs Pacquiao bout he was so sure that Manny was going to win that he lined up his Cashcow expecting a dominating victory and a trip to the negotiating table with Floyd believing this would give him leverage but it backfired; as much as people are willing to blindly believe that Manny won that fight all one has to do is watch the fight in slow-mo without volume and the tainted and one-sided broadcasting by HBO and they can clearly see that Tim won that fight despite his bad ankles.

I will continue to pray that Marquez says no to the not necessary 5th fight with Manny and that Bradley gets the chance to prove that he beat Manny this time with better ankles so that we can start to put an end to this stupid fiasco in regards to who really won their first bout. Manny Pacquiao's fans are the worst on any forum they are on, they can see no flaws in Manny, in their eyes he can do no wrong and they provide all the excuses in the world for when he loses but none for when he gets served up a controversial win like in the cases with the JMM fights prior to the last one.

If Manny had beaten Bradley then we would've never seen JMM 4 yet unless someone else had clipped Pacquiao but Arum is a shrewd businessman and he would've made sure that Manny was allowed to continue to fight TR fighters only and gave him a far lesser challenge like an Alvarado or even Rios earlier than what he did because the Marquez bout would've been too risky (as we saw), he definitely would've kept Pacquiao away from Ruslan as anyone has cared to notice-he isn't even being seriously considered as an opponent though they may be name dropping just to keep people interested and Pacquiao's name relevant and they tend to do whenever they (Manny, Roach and Arum) throws Mayweather name out there.
Jovi2016
QUOTE (checkleft @ Dec 29 2013, 09:52 AM) *
You're trying way to hard.. you seem to know more about marquez then he knows about himself

Btw marquez has won more rounds than pac between their four fights Mr "40" rounds. pac wasn't having a walk in the park either, he got dropped bad before pac knocked Juan down and marquez kd was more so due to balance while pac landed on his back and on his face..


I dont disagree at all, I know Juan did an amazing job against pacquiao. Im not discrediting Juan for anything. Im taking all that and saying he did all that but you know how much it took for him to do that. He didnt get his first Knockdown on Pacquiao until their 4th fight!!!! that means the same guy was busting him up for 8 years prior he finally got his revenge (the 3rd fight wasnt serious punishment). Every round was a war in itself, he knocked out Pacquiao because he really wanted to knock him out, his will to win just showed through and it prevailed in the end, even through his broken nose and cut up face....Marquez didnt fight pac the 4th time because of the money, he fought because he wanted a decisive win, he got it now and he seemed very satisfied with it. I dont think he would fight pac again just for the money, or because he wants to give him another chance...I could be wrong, but i think he will fight him when he KNOWS he can beat him, that Bradley fight made marquez look like he needs a comeback fight too. Put Marquez against Rios next.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Jovi2016 @ Dec 29 2013, 12:20 AM) *
Me? a Pacquiao fan? Thats new.

I'm not taking away from Marquez at all, i know Marquez is the superior strategist and got the KO on manny through a perfectly planned punch, i won money on that fight. But the way that Marquez won doesnt take away from the fact that he was getting bruised and broken for 40 rounds before that! I'm not saying that Pacquiao was going right through Marquez, but Pacquiao was putting that work on him. You gotta remember Marquez isn't the youngest person anymore and hinted many times at his own retirement, Marquez himself knows that if he fights Pac that if he fights Pac then even though the win is possible itll come with a price. He wont face Mayweather again because of the Humiliation, he wont fight Pac (yet) because of the war that it will take for the W.

Being scared of someone and not wanting to take punishment are 2 different things. He obviously isnt afraid of Pacquiao since he stepped into the ring with him, but Marquez knows he isn't gonna have a flawless win.....And like i said in the last post, i think its more that he's biding his time. He's definitely not in a rush to fight Pac since he most likely gets the KO again through a war....."There's nothing cool about taking punishment."


Juan usually gets hit a lot in most of all his fights. I have yet to see Juan not take punishment in his fights. It is how he fights and that is what he likes to do. Please stop acting like Juan was in serious danger. He was getting hit was shots so he could set up that knock out punch.He doesn't want to fight Pac because both fighters agreed that the 4th fight would be the last. It just so happens that Manny needs a dance partner that can make him 8 million dollars and fighting Bradley ain't going to give him that. The 4th fight was the last, not because Juan does not want to take punishment it because he did something both men were not able to do, win decisively. Juan won decisively. This Pac being superman up until the 6th round is tiring and discrediting Juan, its bullshit.

QUOTE (DigitalBoom @ Dec 29 2013, 11:22 AM) *
Well seems like Pacquaio is coming up out from under that IRS issue they just released that LIEN which means the IRS has started receiving documents it wants and is adjusting (lowering) his debt.

No, they started receiving payments. Big difference. How do I know? They would of said in a statement that all issues have been resolved. IRS are getting their money. He still has the BIR issue.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Jovi2016 @ Dec 28 2013, 04:53 PM) *
Hmm. I still need to rewatch the bradley fight. When i first saw it i thought Manny got the clear decision but Tim's credit he did survive and i was streaming it on shitty quality so its still up in the air, i havent cared enough to watch it HD yet. I think i may have tried by i fell asleep.

But Bradley and Marquez ppv did 375k-400k veiws, which isnt special but it is important since Pac and Rios ppv did only 500k and may even be lower. a Pacquiao vs Bradley fight will probably keep the number consistent with 500k the variable is Bradley, which i think has added a good amount of stock to his name for the rematch; That Marquez win was big, and it was a blessing in disguise for Pacquiao. The fact is it was close, his ankles were messed up, and apparently Pac could have done better; So there's a cliff hanger to the fight with the decision....I want to see a rematch between the two, but selling it is the focal point which i believe is easier than the Marquez fight at this point.

Marquez doesn't seem like he wants to get punched in the face by Pacquiao no more, he doesn't a broken nose or a cut up face again for the millions, even if he could get 1 punch KO with a less wild Pacquiao. If he would rather face a pillow fisted Bradley whose punches he could walk through for another PPV paycheck, thats all him. Maybe he hasn't spent all his money from his last fights so he's not so desperate, but he will be soon, or he's just waiting for a bigger offer.

What i think will happen. Sorry for my scattered thoughts but when i imagine now is next being Pacquiao vs Bradley 2. Pacquiao should be taking that this time, i think Bradley is more damaged goods than Pacquiao. Convincing win, then either Marquez vs Bradley 2 or go straight to Pacquiao vs Marquez 5. I think only after they both beat bradley in a rematch they should meet up again, highest Paychecks for both at that point.

IF and big IF GBP and TR do business to make a fight again, It most likely be Mayweather vs Pacquiao or Bradley only if Bradley isnt a free agent by then. And even if he is and he lost to Pac and Marquez in the rematch it wouldnt matter because he got the win over them its only value is to show the difference in styles if Mayweather were to Dominate Bradley (the guy who took W over both PAc and Marquez)....2014 will be very very interesting!!

Couldn't agree more with this statement. I'm staaarting to get the idea that this is why Juan is "refusing" to fight Pac again. He made his statement in the 4th, so in his mind, there's no need to revisit the situation...unless the money's right. Again, I've been hearing about this "$15M", but I'm starting to wonder why he hasn't budged...maybe because we're seeing how Manny's money has really been "paid out" over the years. As you mentioned, Juan's face looked NOTHING like it did after 4 Pac fights, after he fought Bradley.

QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 28 2013, 07:53 PM) *
I swear I feel like I am on boxingscene.com with that statement. Was JMM not handling Pac, did he not knock him down and the second round (or was it the 3rd) round? Why do people act like Pac was just railroading JMM before the knockout. Nevermind that JMM outsmarted Manny into that knockout punch, never mind that he was looking for that punch the entire fight. The only thing that will stand out in their 4 fights is not thar BS you just posted, but Manny taking a fucking nap in the 6 round. Its boxing people get punched in the face. Danny Garcia looked like shit after his fight with Zab, Floyd looked like shit after his fight with Augustus and Cotto. Its boxing, Manny looked like shit after the Margarito and Cotto fight. Bradly looked like shit after the Ruslan fight.

That pillow fist Bradley beat the hard hitting Manny. And Manny's punches did not seem to hurt Bradley too bad. I love how fans discredit every boxer that Manny has lost to. The guy is God and he isn't that great. This is why I hate Manny is because of his fucking fans

Juan was handling Pac in all 4 fights (in certain rounds), but he took a lot of punishment to do so. People are letting that 1 punch KO ruin their perception, of what was really happening in those fights. Pac DID railroad Juan before the 6th round KO, regardless of the 3rd round knockdown, Juan was on his to getting stopped before he stopped Manny. You're right, it is boxing an people do get punched in the face, but most guys don't fight each other 4 or more times either, so maybe he is getting tired of those stinging left hands that come faster and faster in each fight. Who knows...
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Dec 29 2013, 01:48 PM) *
Couldn't agree more with this statement. I'm staaarting to get the idea that this is why Juan is "refusing" to fight Pac again. He made his statement in the 4th, so in his mind, there's no need to revisit the situation...unless the money's right. Again, I've been hearing about this "$15M", but I'm starting to wonder why he hasn't budged...maybe because we're seeing how Manny's money has really been "paid out" over the years. As you mentioned, Juan's face looked NOTHING like it did after 4 Pac fights, after he fought Bradley.


Juan was handling Pac in all 4 fights (in certain rounds), but he took a lot of punishment to do so. People are letting that 1 punch KO ruin their perception, of what was really happening in those fights. Pac DID railroad Juan before the 6th round KO, regardless of the 3rd round knockdown, Juan was on his to getting stopped before he stopped Manny. You're right, it is boxing an people do get punched in the face, but most guys don't fight each other 4 or more times either, so maybe he is getting tired of those stinging left hands that come faster and faster in each fight. Who knows...

Juan and Pac gave good and took good. Juan looks like shit in all his face, he cuts easy and he takes punishment. When both men said the 4th would be the last fight, and the world agreed, it should stay like that. Just because the outcome did not go in the majority favor, does not mean the original plan should change. Juan won with a hell of a punch, his nose was split and his mouth was bleeding but he was still fighting. He sat on that punch and executed it greatly.

Juan looked like shit against Bradley, and Bradley has pillows for fist. But whatever. Its going to be a never ending story. How fuck up is this thread when Bradley is named in the thread but never mentioned? Bradley gets no respect smh
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2013, 03:54 PM) *
Juan and Pac gave good and took good. Juan looks like shit in all his face, he cuts easy and he takes punishment. When both men said the 4th would be the last fight, and the world agreed, it should stay like that. Just because the outcome did not go in the majority favor, does not mean the original plan should change. Juan won with a hell of a punch, his nose was split and his mouth was bleeding but he was still fighting. He sat on that punch and executed it greatly.

Juan looked like shit against Bradley, and Bradley has pillows for fist. But whatever. Its going to be a never ending story. How fuck up is this thread when Bradley is named in the thread but never mentioned? Bradley gets no respect smh

How long have you been watching boxing D? When have fighters been able to make such calls, especially when they're under Bob's umbrella. Neither guy wanted to fight for the 4th time....neither of them. There's no "original plan", unless Arum makes it, and even he shuffles the cards every now and then.

Now, a 5th fight CAN and most likely will happen. Manny's gonna need the money, and seriously, that's the biggest money fight for him under the TR banner. Juan is STILL under contract, so he can piss & moan all he wants...he'll do whatever Bob tells him, unless he retires...which I'm sure he wont do on his own volition.

Let's get off of that one punch and realize that the show goes on...Bob is running the circus, and his fighters keep the show going. That one punch may have slowed down Bob's plans, but it surely didn't cancel or derail them. Let's be clear here, stop taking these fighters (read: contracted employees) and realize who's the boss and also realize that money talks.
Jovi2016
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2013, 03:35 PM) *
Juan usually gets hit a lot in most of all his fights. I have yet to see Juan not take punishment in his fights. It is how he fights and that is what he likes to do. Please stop acting like Juan was in serious danger. He was getting hit was shots so he could set up that knock out punch.He doesn't want to fight Pac because both fighters agreed that the 4th fight would be the last. It just so happens that Manny needs a dance partner that can make him 8 million dollars and fighting Bradley ain't going to give him that. The 4th fight was the last, not because Juan does not want to take punishment it because he did something both men were not able to do, win decisively. Juan won decisively. This Pac being superman up until the 6th round is tiring and discrediting Juan, its bullshit.


No, they started receiving payments. Big difference. How do I know? They would of said in a statement that all issues have been resolved. IRS are getting their money. He still has the BIR issue.


I seriously doubt he likes to end every fight he has with a broken face and stay in glasses for the next hours of press conferences. i understand its his style, he style relies on Technique and Heart at the perfect balance; but if he could (which obviously isnt easy) he would do it. Now please dont misinterpret me, Juan deserves all the credit for the win, though gruesome it was awesome, but you have to realize that punishment like that takes a toll on the body and Marquez is not a young dude. We have old dudes boxing like Mayweather and Hopkins, but their styles are different in the aspect that try to avoid punishment which is why its easier to predict that they could box longer than after their supposed prime.

Pac just switched over to a more cautious style, but is still faster than Marquez and will tag him, but the question is will Marquez be able to get to him again. I think he can if he hasn't lost any steps, but in order for him to get that final win he will most likely have to go through ALOT of punishment again and dig deep for a fight HE MUST win by KO, because if it goes to the cards then hes screwed.

Its like a life or death fight against Pacquiao, I was just saying why not wait for the Pacquiao vs Marquez fight till maybe both of their last fights. Till then I would rather see Pacquio vs Bradley 2, Marquez vs Rios or Ruslan. Because until they both retire that will be a big fight but im not in a rush to see it because i think it would bring out the end of both of them.

Dolimite
QUOTE (Jovi2016 @ Dec 29 2013, 01:50 PM) *
I seriously doubt he likes to end every fight he has with a broken face and stay in glasses for the next hours of press conferences. i understand its his style, he style relies on Technique and Heart at the perfect balance; but if he could (which obviously isnt easy) he would do it. Now please dont misinterpret me, Juan deserves all the credit for the win, though gruesome it was awesome, but you have to realize that punishment like that takes a toll on the body and Marquez is not a young dude. We have old dudes boxing like Mayweather and Hopkins, but their styles are different in the aspect that try to avoid punishment which is why its easier to predict that they could box longer than after their supposed prime.

Pac just switched over to a more cautious style, but is still faster than Marquez and will tag him, but the question is will Marquez be able to get to him again. I think he can if he hasn't lost any steps, but in order for him to get that final win he will most likely have to go through ALOT of punishment again and dig deep for a fight HE MUST win by KO, because if it goes to the cards then hes screwed.

Its like a life or death fight against Pacquiao, I was just saying why not wait for the Pacquiao vs Marquez fight till maybe both of their last fights. Till then I would rather see Pacquio vs Bradley 2, Marquez vs Rios or Ruslan. Because until they both retire that will be a big fight but im not in a rush to see it because i think it would bring out the end of both of them.

In all 4 fights except the last one were all close. All of them. both men came out injured, I am sure Pac doesn't like getting hit either. Pac has been in some wars as well. Again, both men took punishment and if they continue to box they will continue to take punishment. Its the hurt game. whoever either men fight they will get tagged. Pac I know this is hard to fathom, isn't the only fighter who hits hard.
mgrover
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 29 2013, 10:50 PM) *
In all 4 fights except the last one were all close. All of them. both men came out injured, I am sure Pac doesn't like getting hit either. Pac has been in some wars as well. Again, both men took punishment and if they continue to box they will continue to take punishment. Its the hurt game. whoever either men fight they will get tagged. Pac I know this is hard to fathom, isn't the only fighter who hits hard.


how dare you sir, if Pac was in Durans era he would of been named hands of titanium...haha
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Dec 29 2013, 05:59 PM) *
how dare you sir, if Pac was in Durans era he would of been named hands of titanium...haha



I don't think so, IMHO he doesn't hit as hard as they make him out to do. He's only really had the one punch KO's of Hatton and the bum David Diaz but since then he hasn't put anyone out with one shot, he has decent overall power but not the type of one hitter quitter power of a guy like Thomas Hearns or Julian Jackson.
mrchitown
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Dec 30 2013, 06:30 PM) *
I don't think so, IMHO he doesn't hit as hard as they make him out to do. He's only really had the one punch KO's of Hatton and the bum David Diaz but since then he hasn't put anyone out with one shot, he has decent overall power but not the type of one hitter quitter power of a guy like Thomas Hearns or Julian Jackson.


What's wrong with David Diaz?
mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Dec 31 2013, 12:30 AM) *
I don't think so, IMHO he doesn't hit as hard as they make him out to do. He's only really had the one punch KO's of Hatton and the bum David Diaz but since then he hasn't put anyone out with one shot, he has decent overall power but not the type of one hitter quitter power of a guy like Thomas Hearns or Julian Jackson.


I was being pretty sarcastic, Manny never had immense KO power at this weight, he wears guys down.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 30 2013, 06:47 PM) *
What's wrong with David Diaz?


Nothing other than him being like 3rd tier at the time that Manny fought him. Btw, where is he now??
mrchitown
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Dec 30 2013, 08:34 PM) *
Nothing other than him being like 3rd tier at the time that Manny fought him. Btw, where is he now??


I always liked him, he was a worker. If some of these fighters had his work ethic then they'd be in beast mode. That's why sometimes we'll see a hard working athlete beat one who is more talented.

He has his own radio show in which he talks all things boxing. I know that for a fact but David Estrada, don't know if your familiar with him, told me he was looking into training fighters. That was a while back. I haven't spoken to Estrada since last summer
Dolimite
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Dec 30 2013, 04:30 PM) *
I don't think so, IMHO he doesn't hit as hard as they make him out to do. He's only really had the one punch KO's of Hatton and the bum David Diaz but since then he hasn't put anyone out with one shot, he has decent overall power but not the type of one hitter quitter power of a guy like Thomas Hearns or Julian Jackson.


He was being sarcastic. People who have fought Pac have said he doesn't hit that hard. Look at Tim's face after their fight. not a scratch on him. Not one. Bradley said he didn't hit that hard. Hatton walked into that punch perfectly and as far as Diaz goes, well, he was already one foot out of his boxing career.

QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 30 2013, 07:36 PM) *
I always liked him, he was a worker. If some of these fighters had his work ethic then they'd be in beast mode. That's why sometimes we'll see a hard working athlete beat one who is more talented.

He has his own radio show in which he talks all things boxing. I know that for a fact but David Estrada, don't know if your familiar with him, told me he was looking into training fighters. That was a while back. I haven't spoken to Estrada since last summer

What did you do to piss him off Chi?
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Dec 31 2013, 08:01 AM) *
He was being sarcastic. People who have fought Pac have said he doesn't hit that hard. Look at Tim's face after their fight. not a scratch on him. Not one. Bradley said he didn't hit that hard. Hatton walked into that punch perfectly and as far as Diaz goes, well, he was already one foot out of his boxing career.


What did you do to piss him off Chi?


He heard that you were raising my kids with your girl, the f*ck you mean what I do? laugh.gif Estrada only box part time, he wants to be a cop. If I want to get in touch with him, I just call a mutual friend. He works a full time job, but he occasionally wants to come back to boxing. I don't think his heart is in it. He don't like the politics of the sport. Truth be told it's a lot of good fighters in Chicago, actually the whole state but promoters don't come here and a lot of them end up getting with shady characters and used up
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Dec 30 2013, 09:36 PM) *
I always liked him, he was a worker. If some of these fighters had his work ethic then they'd be in beast mode. That's why sometimes we'll see a hard working athlete beat one who is more talented.

He has his own radio show in which he talks all things boxing. I know that for a fact but David Estrada, don't know if your familiar with him, told me he was looking into training fighters. That was a while back. I haven't spoken to Estrada since last summer



Being from around the way (E. Chi) I'm familiar with all the Chi-based fighters but since I don't get to go back as much other than to visit my moms (Dolton) then I haven't really heard much about either David. I just thought at the time that Manny fought him that there were far superior titleholders that he should've tried instead of taking Diaz who I considered the least of them despite his hard work ethic and tough guy way of fighting.
Cshel86
Well, looks like Lovie is back on the saddle....the Buccs are about to sign him as head coach. Man I hate it for NFL coaches though...those dudes are in the middle of a cutthroat business, and this "win now" mentality is nothing more than a knife to the throat, or fire under one's ass. Everybody wants to win, but at the end of the day, somebody's gotta lose...ask Pac and Bradley...both of them lost on 6/9/12. LOL
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 2 2014, 07:33 AM) *
Well, looks like Lovie is back on the saddle....the Buccs are about to sign him as head coach. Man I hate it for NFL coaches though...those dudes are in the middle of a cutthroat business, and this "win now" mentality is nothing more than a knife to the throat, or fire under one's ass. Everybody wants to win, but at the end of the day, somebody's gotta lose...ask Pac and Bradley...both of them lost on 6/9/12. LOL

They are giving Lovie 4 years to do his thing. Tampa actually has a good team. all they need is another receiver and QB. If my sources are correct MV7 will be in Tampa.

Welcome back, how much did you spend on your lady this holiday?
mrchitown
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Jan 2 2014, 08:33 AM) *
Well, looks like Lovie is back on the saddle....the Buccs are about to sign him as head coach. Man I hate it for NFL coaches though...those dudes are in the middle of a cutthroat business, and this "win now" mentality is nothing more than a knife to the throat, or fire under one's ass. Everybody wants to win, but at the end of the day, somebody's gotta lose...ask Pac and Bradley...both of them lost on 6/9/12. LOL


He doesn't have the tools to be a championship coach. He will make them a better team but they won't make any real noise
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 2 2014, 10:20 AM) *
They are giving Lovie 4 years to do his thing. Tampa actually has a good team. all they need is another receiver and QB. If my sources are correct MV7 will be in Tampa.

Welcome back, how much did you spend on your lady this holiday?


Vick got screwed over, I don't know how many real suitors will be vying for his services this off-season. Tampa is looking to keep Glennon as the starter. Teams have been using Vick's age against him. The Bears were going to get him but instead re-signed Jay. His age and his knack for being injured will keep many teams away from him
mrchitown
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Dec 31 2013, 06:16 PM) *
Being from around the way (E. Chi) I'm familiar with all the Chi-based fighters but since I don't get to go back as much other than to visit my moms (Dolton) then I haven't really heard much about either David. I just thought at the time that Manny fought him that there were far superior titleholders that he should've tried instead of taking Diaz who I considered the least of them despite his hard work ethic and tough guy way of fighting.


There were some, I think Nate Campbell was champ at that time as well. I'd a liked to see that fight.

Dolton? You ain't missing nothing there lol

I always think that if Diaz hadn't of fought Pacquiao his career may have been a little different, he was derailed after that fight
Dolimite
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Jan 2 2014, 06:39 PM) *
Vick got screwed over, I don't know how many real suitors will be vying for his services this off-season. Tampa is looking to keep Glennon as the starter. Teams have been using Vick's age against him. The Bears were going to get him but instead re-signed Jay. His age and his knack for being injured will keep many teams away from him

Jay Cutler is a waste. Y'all will never win anything with him. Vick did get screwed but someone will pick him up. Maybe the Jets, Texans, Jaguars, Tennessee, Tampa and Vikings and plenty other teams can use his help.
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Jan 2 2014, 09:31 PM) *
Jay Cutler is a waste. Y'all will never win anything with him. Vick did get screwed but someone will pick him up. Maybe the Jets, Texans, Jaguars, Tennessee, Tampa and Vikings and plenty other teams can use his help.


I hope Vick starts somewhere. I rock with Cutler, dude is tough and he's finally in a good system for QB's
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