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hookoffthejab
I've been wrecking my brain to figure out how we rate the legacy of our favorite fighters. I grew up in the 80s Ray Leonard was my favorite. To this day people clamor over Ray and it is well deserved, however i look back and try to access exactly what we saw and what the media told us we saw. In 36 fights we saw Duran 3x Hearns 2x Hagler and Benitez.....Leonard Duran 1....Ray was 5'10 had fought as high as 160 in his rookie year..and Duran was a 5'7 lightweight moving up to Welterweight...Ray lost that fight then won the rematch....Hearns 1 was a matchup of 2 welterweight champs Ray 25 and TH 22..... Ray won in dramatic fashion...The Hagler fight was 4 years past its date but still a great feat....People say today's fighters fight for the money but Ray made 12 million vs Duran in 1980......THAT IS A TON OF MONEY FOR A FIGHTER TODAY....So Im hoping someone can break Ray Leonards legacy down to me it looks thin.
mgrover
They shouldn't clamour over him, he never wanted to win fights in the ring but always wanted every advantage he could get, hes stated several times that he knew Duran would balloon up thats why he wanted the fight as soon as possible, he stated that after the Mugabi fight Hagler wasn't the same fighter that's why he decided to fight him then, etc etc. He was always looking for something extra because he clearly had doubt somewhere in him.
wolterb
Well the notion that todays boxers fight for money and that yesteryears didn't is just not true. Can't fault ray for making good money. I think the reason he stands out today is the same reason why he made the $$ he did. He was a very talented, very fast fighter with a playful personality. Bein a great athlete with a good personality or at least a good public persona pays dividends.

But rating legacies is murky business. To me its a combination of quantity and quality.
Franchize
Never was a fan of Ray Leonard. Don't get me wrong. He's a legend and a tremendous fighter. That being said, a lot of things fighters often get criticized for, gets swept under the rug when it comes to SRL. He wanted no parts of of Aaron Pryor or a Hagler rematch. According to a lot of people, he was didn't want Julian Jackson, Nigel Benn or Iran Barkley either. Also, he did a lot of Joe Calzaghe-esque things in his fights. Once again, not saying the man isn't an all time great, but he did a lot of bullshit shoe-shining shit that wasn't really landing but was flashy and getting him points he shouldn't really be getting.
wolterb
^ good points...his bout with hagler is a great example of him Calzaghe'ing, winning via crowd decision.
hookoffthejab
Ray is the only legend that I know that will openly admit to ducking admit to getting the bouts all in his favor getting his ass kicked and still be regarded as top 10 some say top 5 of all time.....That baffles me.....
wolterb
^ people have a hard-on for that era, so his name is going to be on the tops of most "lists" you see floating around. still, you can't take too sizeable shit on him - he won titles in the welterweight, middleweight and light heavyweight classes. Before that he won American Olympic gold. if you know boxing, maybe leonard doesn't make the top cut on your list but he was a good fighter worthy of memory.
mrchitown
Ray Leonard one of the GOAT's. When I look at the things being said about him and what he did I find it humorous. Then we should be looking at a lot of fighters the same way because they did the same thing. Like it or not but out of the four kings he sits atop the throne. He whooped all of them. And he did it in impressive fashion

As far as rating legacy, it's so selective it'll drive you crazy bit I think skills, resume, achievements etc should be taken into consideration
Cshel86
Good points guys! I think we had this discussion a couple of weeks ago, and we pretty much settled it at "it's subjective"...different people look for different things when considering a fighter as an ATG.

If I remember correctly (though I may be wrong), SRL admitted a lot of this stuff after his career concluded. If that was entirely the case, then I can't blame him. Once you've fought and became great in your era, people only remember that much.

If a guy like Tyson can admit that he was scared before fights, doubted himself, etc. AFTER his career and still be respected, then surely SRL can. That's the best time to do it...AFTER your career is over. At that point, fans in your era would have truly matured and respected you not only as a fighter, but a man...a human being, rather.

Besides, those documentaries, highlights narrated by the fighter, and deep dark secrets, is what keeps fighters relevant after their career.

Again, legacy, ATG status, HOF status is subjective...most of all, it takes a substantial amount of time to make those determinations.
BoxingEinstein

We rate them like we always do....with opposition levels, being active, risks taken, height/weight advantages or disadvantages, ring performance, and through winning or losing.

Honourable mention: Longevity
Rumpoffsteelskin
If I heard someone put SRL in the top 5 all-time, I wouldn't bat an eye...but I also would not expect it to go unchallenged. But, IMO Leonard was that good. Ali was the greatest fighter ever in terms of impact, Robinson and a prime Roy Jones in terms of pure skill and ability. Leonard is somewhere among these men. More skilled than Ali, but less of an impact in the grand scheme. Less skilled or gifted than Roy or Walker, but a much bigger ambassador for the sport.

His legacy is unquestioned. In addition to Hagler, Hearn and Duran, he fought Viruet, DaveyBoy Green and Benitez. And SRL is basically responsible for one of the best weight classes in boxing today, super midddleweight.

That is a legacy if there ever was one.
klonopinz
he knew how to exploit gettign a decision, thats for sure. he stole alot of alis moves and walker smith as well. he was the fighter that as handed the torch after ali and he was not a heavyeight, so he is def responsible for the glory of the 147 division today, he didnt start it but he took it to the next level. He is an icon of boxing. He invented the platform of superfight that floyd mayweather enjoys today. He as more of a showman IMO and he got a lot of questionable bullshit IMO like tkoing benitez with 7 seconds left in the fight to win the title, thats some taylor chavez bs. And the hagler fight was the same way. I think he won on show, he as dying in there. It doesnt matter, because he did the impossible and nobody thought he could do the shit he ended up doing.
hookoffthejab
My personal opinion is he should have beat Duran both times being as tho he had the youth and a considerable size advantage and was suppose to be the best american fighter alive. Hagler was 4 years past its date and he ducked Barkley, Pryor, and an immediate Hearns rematch....We hold the fighters of today to a higher standard.
klonopinz
yeah he beat duran then wouldnt give him a rematch for ten years. if he beat you any which way, he ouldnt fight you again. duran gave him an immediate rematch, and he should have done the same. He knew the shit he pulled in that rematch, and it was kinda dirty, but shame on duran for agreeing to the terms.
mgrover
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Feb 12 2014, 10:16 PM) *
yeah he beat duran then wouldnt give him a rematch for ten years. if he beat you any which way, he ouldnt fight you again. duran gave him an immediate rematch, and he should have done the same. He knew the shit he pulled in that rematch, and it was kinda dirty, but shame on duran for agreeing to the terms.


I remember people saying it was Durans manager taking it rather than Duran
klonopinz
i think it duran made 11 million so how could anyone on their team say no to that?
mgrover
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Feb 12 2014, 10:32 PM) *
i think it duran made 11 million so how could anyone on their team say no to that?


Well seemed like they were throwing there fighter to the dogs.
Col Reb
I still get ticked thinking about that decision vs Hagler. Marvin was my favorite fighter of that generation.
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