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Dolimite
Looking over their careers especially early in their careers Juan has more notable fighters. Pac has fought Erik Morales 3 times, Juan 4, MAB twice, and now he will be fighting Tim for the second time. Juan has beaten some Mexican warriors but he has also lost to people he had no business losing to, Chris John and in my opinion he should of beaten Freddie Norwood. Yes the ref missed the knockdown when his glove touched, and with the second knockdown should squared that fight. I think he overlooked Norwood.

What do ya'll say?
DigitalBoom
One could make the argument about catch weights but one guy has beaten more world champions than the other. Notably going off how many top ten fighters they've managed to beat each I would say by far Pacquaio's resume is more impressive. With that said I think it took Marquez a long time to be able to get fights he wanted, perhaps it would've been a different result at this point of their careers. Had Marquez perhaps had better handlers, hadn't been such a d*ck to fellow mexican boxers I think his career would've blossomed into more than it's become. While alot of people made peace with him after his KO of Pacquaio many of those same people had long standing feuds with Marquez and who knows how that has played against him career wise.
mrchitown
I'd say Pacquiao. But their careers are total opposites of each other. both legends though
checkleft
Marquez is very underrated in my opinion. On paper though pac has a hefty lead
BmoreBadBoy
For real? This shouldn't even be a topic for debate... It's Pac-Man not by just a little
But by a long shot!!! Only reason this is a debate is because Marquez landed a punch from the depths of hell &
Had the body of Hercules himself.. I'm not saying he was but with the addition of Memo in his corner & a history of being caught giving athelete's steroids one has to wonder was that a legit win? At least in my eyes it is..still Pac's career over shadows Marquez by a land slide!!
mgrover
By paper Pac, style simply allowed him to do more, look at the triangle theory, Marquez beats Pac, Pac unofficially beats Bradley, Bradley beats Marquez. Realistically Pac and Marquez aren't far off each other, they could probably fight a lot and it would come out pretty even.
Dolimite
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Feb 17 2014, 07:55 PM) *
I'd say Pacquiao. But their careers are total opposites of each other. both legends though


Agreed. I think if Juan had the same push Pac got it would be different.

QUOTE (checkleft @ Feb 17 2014, 11:35 PM) *
Marquez is very underrated in my opinion. On paper though pac has a hefty lead


The rematches in Pac's career gives me room to hesitate. Some of those rematches he should of lost.
QUOTE (BmoreBadBoy @ Feb 18 2014, 06:07 AM) *
For real? This shouldn't even be a topic for debate... It's Pac-Man not by just a little
But by a long shot!!! Only reason this is a debate is because Marquez landed a punch from the depths of hell &
Had the body of Hercules himself.. I'm not saying he was but with the addition of Memo in his corner & a history of being caught giving athelete's steroids one has to wonder was that a legit win? At least in my eyes it is..still Pac's career over shadows Marquez by a land slide!!

Juan never tested positive. It is not hard to gain muscle mass. What is more suspect, A guy who moves up in weight, keeps his power and speed, which has never been done in the history of boxing and someone who flat out refused to take a drug test, gave a million reasons why he couldn't give blood or someone who gained muscle mass?
Franchize
I gotta give Manny the edge. While I feel Marquez won 3 of the 4 Pacquiao fights, Marquez also has some bad losses.
BoxingEinstein

Manny by a long shot, his "unofficial" win over Bradley puts him over Marquez even more. Not to mention he's fought half of everyone I wanted to see in the ring with him. I have no doubt in my mind Marquez's worst loss in his career against Mayweather is noy as bad as Pacquiao's worst loss....Thee KO of The Modern Century to Juan.
mgrover
See I never got why Marquez never fought MAB or Erik Morales
BigDDatHomey
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Feb 18 2014, 12:08 PM) *
Agreed. I think if Juan had the same push Pac got it would be different.



The rematches in Pac's career gives me room to hesitate. Some of those rematches he should of lost.

Juan never tested positive. It is not hard to gain muscle mass. What is more suspect, A guy who moves up in weight, keeps his power and speed, which has never been done in the history of boxing and someone who flat out refused to take a drug test, gave a million reasons why he couldn't give blood or someone who gained muscle mass?


...and they ignore...my thoughts exactly dude
Franchize
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Feb 18 2014, 12:08 PM) *
Juan never tested positive. It is not hard to gain muscle mass. What is more suspect, A guy who moves up in weight, keeps his power and speed, which has never been done in the history of boxing and someone who flat out refused to take a drug test, gave a million reasons why he couldn't give blood or someone who gained muscle mass?


Uh oh. There goes that ugly bitch called the truth. She's a scary motherfucker.
Dolimite
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 18 2014, 01:16 PM) *
See I never got why Marquez never fought MAB or Erik Morales

I wondered the same thing? Did they ever call each other out?
Cshel86
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 18 2014, 04:16 PM) *
See I never got why Marquez never fought MAB or Erik Morales

He fought Barrera...just not Morales...I think that's the fight that everybody truly wanted to see.

QUOTE (Dolimite @ Feb 18 2014, 09:19 PM) *
I wondered the same thing? Did they ever call each other out?

It's funny how people forget that Juan fought Barrera...pretty much clears up the question as to whose resume is better between Juan and Pac. I think people remember the Pac/Barrera rematch more than the JMM/Barrera fight...and that says a lot. Lol
checkleft
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 18 2014, 04:16 PM) *
See I never got why Marquez never fought MAB or Erik Morales

He has fought barrera compa.
The Original MrFactor
Pac didn't beat Bradley. Period... I don't think Marquez blows through Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and DLH(even diminished) in any way. I think its clear that Pac has the better resume.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Feb 18 2014, 08:04 PM) *
He fought Barrera...just not Morales...I think that's the fight that everybody truly wanted to see.


It's funny how people forget that Juan fought Barrera...pretty much clears up the question as to whose resume is better between Juan and Pac. I think people remember the Pac/Barrera rematch more than the JMM/Barrera fight...and that says a lot. Lol


I can be in the minority but I felt that MAB won the second fight. Can we put an asterisk by Pac's wins with all the stipulations surrounding weight and the conditions in which the fights took place? Also, all the rematches he had with MAB, Morales and Juan?
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Feb 18 2014, 11:08 AM) *
Agreed. I think if Juan had the same push Pac got it would be different.



The rematches in Pac's career gives me room to hesitate. Some of those rematches he should of lost.

Juan never tested positive. It is not hard to gain muscle mass. What is more suspect, A guy who moves up in weight, keeps his power and speed, which has never been done in the history of boxing and someone who flat out refused to take a drug test, gave a million reasons why he couldn't give blood or someone who gained muscle mass?


Marquez has an impressive resume as well. Truthfully in the last stretch it just seems as if Manny has fought more names like a Cotto and a Mosley, etc which gives him an advantage
mrchitown
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Feb 19 2014, 09:48 AM) *
I can be in the minority but I felt that MAB won the second fight. Can we put an asterisk by Pac's wins with all the stipulations surrounding weight and the conditions in which the fights took place? Also, all the rematches he had with MAB, Morales and Juan?


We can put asterisks next to many fighters's resumes
Dolimite
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Feb 19 2014, 11:12 AM) *
We can put asterisks next to many fighters's resumes

True. Very true.
mgrover
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Feb 19 2014, 07:12 PM) *
We can put asterisks next to many fighters's resumes


Its a bit silly that we can
HyyerBlaze
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 18 2014, 05:16 PM) *
See I never got why Marquez never fought MAB or Erik Morales

He scared
Aware
1 big name on Marquez's resume that people have seemed to leave off...
mgrover
QUOTE (Aware @ Feb 25 2014, 01:22 AM) *
1 big name on Marquez's resume that people have seemed to leave off...


Casamayor??
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (BmoreBadBoy @ Feb 18 2014, 07:07 AM) *
For real? This shouldn't even be a topic for debate... It's Pac-Man not by just a little
But by a long shot!!! Only reason this is a debate is because Marquez landed a punch from the depths of hell &
Had the body of Hercules himself.. I'm not saying he was but with the addition of Memo in his corner & a history of being caught giving athelete's steroids one has to wonder was that a legit win? At least in my eyes it is..still Pac's career over shadows Marquez by a land slide!!



I disagree with Pac by a mile, take Cotto off of Manny's resume and what do you got? Let's not forget that JMM crushed Manny who beat that same Cotto that was beaten by a man with loaded gloves/a cheater. People are too quick to point out Marquez's losses to Norwood and John but yet they overlook Manny's losses by KO I might add to the likes of Rustico Torrecampo and Medgoen Singsurat two virtual nobodies (where are they at now in the sport?) not to mention his first loss to Morales.

Morales never wanted to face JMM and we saw how Marquez beat Barrera, it took Pac 2 additional chances just to prove without a doubt that he could beat Morales definitively and those wins are tainted with the fact that Morales had come off a loss to Zahir Raheem and his struggles to make weight.

IMHO with JMM's ownage of Manny in all of their fights and his penchant for not having to fight the same opponents (other than Manny) over and over again then I'd say that he is ahead of Pac because at least he's had the balls to face Floyd and not make excuses about Needles and having blood drawn and even being outweighed on fight night he still got in there and took his whuppin like a man.
Dolimite
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 2 2014, 10:28 AM) *
I disagree with Pac by a mile, take Cotto off of Manny's resume and what do you got? Let's not forget that JMM crushed Manny who beat that same Cotto that was beaten by a man with loaded gloves/a cheater. People are too quick to point out Marquez's losses to Norwood and John but yet they overlook Manny's losses by KO I might add to the likes of Rustico Torrecampo and Medgoen Singsurat two virtual nobodies (where are they at now in the sport?) not to mention his first loss to Morales.

Morales never wanted to face JMM and we saw how Marquez beat Barrera, it took Pac 2 additional chances just to prove without a doubt that he could beat Morales definitively and those wins are tainted with the fact that Morales had come off a loss to Zahir Raheem and his struggles to make weight.

IMHO with JMM's ownage of Manny in all of their fights and his penchant for not having to fight the same opponents (other than Manny) over and over again then I'd say that he is ahead of Pac because at least he's had the balls to face Floyd and not make excuses about Needles and having blood drawn and even being outweighed on fight night he still got in there and took his whuppin like a man.

Interesting.
mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 2 2014, 06:28 PM) *
I disagree with Pac by a mile, take Cotto off of Manny's resume and what do you got? Let's not forget that JMM crushed Manny who beat that same Cotto that was beaten by a man with loaded gloves/a cheater. People are too quick to point out Marquez's losses to Norwood and John but yet they overlook Manny's losses by KO I might add to the likes of Rustico Torrecampo and Medgoen Singsurat two virtual nobodies (where are they at now in the sport?) not to mention his first loss to Morales.

Morales never wanted to face JMM and we saw how Marquez beat Barrera, it took Pac 2 additional chances just to prove without a doubt that he could beat Morales definitively and those wins are tainted with the fact that Morales had come off a loss to Zahir Raheem and his struggles to make weight.

IMHO with JMM's ownage of Manny in all of their fights and his penchant for not having to fight the same opponents (other than Manny) over and over again then I'd say that he is ahead of Pac because at least he's had the balls to face Floyd and not make excuses about Needles and having blood drawn and even being outweighed on fight night he still got in there and took his whuppin like a man.


The issue with his "supposed" wins over Manny, is that the fights were damn close, all of them (before the KO, aside from maybe the third, need a rewatch), so if soley ranking on those fights its about even.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 3 2014, 02:26 AM) *
The issue with his "supposed" wins over Manny, is that the fights were damn close, all of them (before the KO, aside from maybe the third, need a rewatch), so if soley ranking on those fights its about even.



I didn't find their first fight close, the 3 knockdowns MP got and after that he got schooled, the second fight was probably their closest fight and the 3rd was obviously a JMM fight but he got straight raped on that one which leaves the dreaded 4th fight and the stamp of the decade punch that knocked Pacquiao into another dimension but I'm not ranking solely on those fights.

The wins MP got vs the nobody Diaz while avoiding all of the more viable fighters at 140/taking the easiest route, beating a drained Oscar wasn't a big deal or as big a deal people seem to make it out to be, draining Cotto down to for Miguel's title, fighting for a bogus Jr MW title vs MargoCHEATO, beating the nobody Clottey (btw, where is he today) and facing SSM after ducking him for 2 years even though Mosley agreed to meet him at 142 after Shane put Margo to sleep and downing a ruined Ricky Hatton after he had already had the brakes beat off of him by Floyd and nearly KO'd by Lazcano was nothing overly special IMHO.

I know that I'll catch flack for nothing here but the truth, so in actuality when you add in MP's 3 losses by KO and the fact that Juan Manuel has bested him and has never been KO'd you have to say that on paper and by name only then Manny gets a slight edge due to adding Cotto and Ricky Hatton (both lost to Bradley) but in reality having Floyd on your resume despite losing is a far better name than anyone MP has on his resume but when you factor in everything else as far as how they performed then it becomes an arguable debate with many taking JMM based on those fights he and MP had.
mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 4 2014, 12:09 AM) *
I didn't find their first fight close, the 3 knockdowns MP got and after that he got schooled, the second fight was probably their closest fight and the 3rd was obviously a JMM fight but he got straight raped on that one which leaves the dreaded 4th fight and the stamp of the decade punch that knocked Pacquiao into another dimension but I'm not ranking solely on those fights.

The wins MP got vs the nobody Diaz while avoiding all of the more viable fighters at 140/taking the easiest route, beating a drained Oscar wasn't a big deal or as big a deal people seem to make it out to be, draining Cotto down to for Miguel's title, fighting for a bogus Jr MW title vs MargoCHEATO, beating the nobody Clottey (btw, where is he today) and facing SSM after ducking him for 2 years even though Mosley agreed to meet him at 142 after Shane put Margo to sleep and downing a ruined Ricky Hatton after he had already had the brakes beat off of him by Floyd and nearly KO'd by Lazcano was nothing overly special IMHO.

I know that I'll catch flack for nothing here but the truth, so in actuality when you add in MP's 3 losses by KO and the fact that Juan Manuel has bested him and has never been KO'd you have to say that on paper and by name only then Manny gets a slight edge due to adding Cotto and Ricky Hatton (both lost to Bradley) but in reality having Floyd on your resume despite losing is a far better name than anyone MP has on his resume but when you factor in everything else as far as how they performed then it becomes an arguable debate with many taking JMM based on those fights he and MP had.


No I agree that all sounds about right, but just because you have Floyd on your resume doesn't mean shit, especially since Marquez got handled heavily. I think style wise it was just a bad fight for him. Both counter punchers and he had to be the aggressor. I think the majority of this resume comes from the moving up in weight more than anything, people find it hard to move up one weight class, but realistically he was a featherweight
Dolimite
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 3 2014, 04:09 PM) *
I didn't find their first fight close, the 3 knockdowns MP got and after that he got schooled, the second fight was probably their closest fight and the 3rd was obviously a JMM fight but he got straight raped on that one which leaves the dreaded 4th fight and the stamp of the decade punch that knocked Pacquiao into another dimension but I'm not ranking solely on those fights.

The wins MP got vs the nobody Diaz while avoiding all of the more viable fighters at 140/taking the easiest route, beating a drained Oscar wasn't a big deal or as big a deal people seem to make it out to be, draining Cotto down to for Miguel's title, fighting for a bogus Jr MW title vs MargoCHEATO, beating the nobody Clottey (btw, where is he today) and facing SSM after ducking him for 2 years even though Mosley agreed to meet him at 142 after Shane put Margo to sleep and downing a ruined Ricky Hatton after he had already had the brakes beat off of him by Floyd and nearly KO'd by Lazcano was nothing overly special IMHO.

I know that I'll catch flack for nothing here but the truth, so in actuality when you add in MP's 3 losses by KO and the fact that Juan Manuel has bested him and has never been KO'd you have to say that on paper and by name only then Manny gets a slight edge due to adding Cotto and Ricky Hatton (both lost to Bradley) but in reality having Floyd on your resume despite losing is a far better name than anyone MP has on his resume but when you factor in everything else as far as how they performed then it becomes an arguable debate with many taking JMM based on those fights he and MP had.

I agree with you on the bold parts. Name recognition goes a long way. Oscar, Cotto, Hatton and Mosley. Those are all hall of fame names. Fighting JMM 4 times adds sizzle as well. Pac's fights with MAB the first I can't hate on the call but the second fight, I gave to MAB. The issue I have with Pac's resume is that each major fight he had there was always bullshit that followed it. No one he fought with a name could be considered a fair and even fight. Pac always had the advantage, JMM never had that asking power. Pac's resume seems fixed and not earned. No one is going to bash you for the truth, that would be boxingscene posters/
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 4 2014, 02:24 AM) *
No I agree that all sounds about right, but just because you have Floyd on your resume doesn't mean shit, especially since Marquez got handled heavily. I think style wise it was just a bad fight for him. Both counter punchers and he had to be the aggressor. I think the majority of this resume comes from the moving up in weight more than anything, people find it hard to move up one weight class, but realistically he was a featherweight


I really disagree with that, if you have him on your resume win or lose it means that you faced the best, Oscar has lost to nearly everyone but still nearly everyone I know gives him mad props for facing all the best.


mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 5 2014, 07:04 PM) *
I really disagree with that, if you have him on your resume win or lose it means that you faced the best, Oscar has lost to nearly everyone but still nearly everyone I know gives him mad props for facing all the best.


Each to their own then
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 5 2014, 01:40 PM) *
Each to their own then



I'm not even sure how one wouldn't agree with that but whatever.
mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 6 2014, 01:23 AM) *
I'm not even sure how one wouldn't agree with that but whatever.


Its simple, you carry a lot of weight to a fighter fighting the best, even if he lost, and I don't. Just because I get in the ring with Mayweather and lose every single round to be stopped in the last round, doesn't really mean shit for me, I just lost. I didn't even lose a close fight or a spirited fight. I just straight out got humiliated. And I see that as a bad thing.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 6 2014, 05:52 AM) *
Its simple, you carry a lot of weight to a fighter fighting the best, even if he lost, and I don't. Just because I get in the ring with Mayweather and lose every single round to be stopped in the last round, doesn't really mean shit for me, I just lost. I didn't even lose a close fight or a spirited fight. I just straight out got humiliated. And I see that as a bad thing.



Ok fair enough but for me it means that you weren't afraid to get in there with the very in the sport and that has to count for something, anyone can face the journeymen of the sport but not every fighter gets an opportunity to face the elite of the sport.
KOpower
I guess where I disagree with you is that I don't think the reason "the fight" never happened is because Manny is a chicken. You clearly have your opinion of Manny as a fighter and you are entitled to your opinion.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (KOpower @ Mar 6 2014, 06:32 PM) *
I guess where I disagree with you is that I don't think the reason "the fight" never happened is because Manny is a chicken. You clearly have your opinion of Manny as a fighter and you are entitled to your opinion.


Who are you addressing with this?? An argument can certainly be made by some that he could very well be chicken, I mean look at the excuses he gave:

Afraid of needles
Having blood drawn weakens him
Needed an additional 16,000 seats before he could fight
Said he had a cut over the eye that took 6 months to heal (never happened in boxing before)
Bob Arum said "in good conscience he won't leave 40 million dollars on the table (isn't that how much Floyd offered him)??

There are a slew of others but I won't bother to list them that others may use as indicators in their argument for him being chicken.
mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 7 2014, 04:15 AM) *
Who are you addressing with this?? An argument can certainly be made by some that he could very well be chicken, I mean look at the excuses he gave:

Afraid of needles
Having blood drawn weakens him
Needed an additional 16,000 seats before he could fight
Said he had a cut over the eye that took 6 months to heal (never happened in boxing before)
Bob Arum said "in good conscience he won't leave 40 million dollars on the table (isn't that how much Floyd offered him)??

There are a slew of others but I won't bother to list them that others may use as indicators in their argument for him being chicken.


Just like

extra testing
no 50-50
leave promoter
leave network
join my promotion
owes taxes so thats clearly stopping pac fight...


Same for Mayweather, some don't apply now because of the longevity of this arguement
mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 6 2014, 11:46 PM) *
Ok fair enough but for me it means that you weren't afraid to get in there with the very in the sport and that has to count for something, anyone can face the journeymen of the sport but not every fighter gets an opportunity to face the elite of the sport.


I would hold that to a standard, just not as high as you make it seem
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 7 2014, 05:35 AM) *
Just like

extra testing
no 50-50
leave promoter
leave network
join my promotion
owes taxes so thats clearly stopping pac fight...


Same for Mayweather, some don't apply now because of the longevity of this arguement


Ask yourself; would you give 50% of your money to someone who hasn't contributed as much as you? The extra testing isn't extra when we know that people are cheating not only in this sport but in nearly all sports, not sure why you have a problem with that.

Leave the Promoter-sure, would you give Arum a chance to make money off of you when he still owes you $750,000?
I never heard of leaving the network, unless you are referring to the war between Showtime and HBO for which Mayweather has a 6 fight contract with and Manny who has no Network Contract (means he can leave at anytime).
Floyd isn't just a boxer, he is also a Promoter so it's not a surprise that he would try to recruit one of the most exciting fighters in the sport but that doesn't add up to ducking, that adds up to trying to put money into Manny's pocket.

Manny owes taxes, Floyd doesn't and I'm not sure why you made that as a reason to indicate whether or not someone is ducking, if anything Manny should've been breaking his neck and willing to do damn near anything to make that money so he can pay off the IRS to get out of his anus.

Nothing you stated can be construed as ducking unless you're just a simpleminded PacTURD then I could understand why one would think that it is.
KOpower
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 6 2014, 11:15 PM) *
Who are you addressing with this?? An argument can certainly be made by some that he could very well be chicken, I mean look at the excuses he gave:

Afraid of needles
Having blood drawn weakens him
Needed an additional 16,000 seats before he could fight
Said he had a cut over the eye that took 6 months to heal (never happened in boxing before)
Bob Arum said "in good conscience he won't leave 40 million dollars on the table (isn't that how much Floyd offered him)??

There are a slew of others but I won't bother to list them that others may use as indicators in their argument for him being chicken.


I was addressing it to you.

Those arguments are fine. The pro-Pac crowd would make similar arguments for why Floyd is a chicken. It is meaningless talk to me as I am right in the middle of that argument. I think BOTH sides are to blame. I also think Pac is a legend and will go down as one of the greatest fighters of my generation. You think his entire career is a fraud. It is what it is.
mgrover
QUOTE (KOpower @ Mar 7 2014, 04:30 PM) *
I was addressing it to you.

Those arguments are fine. The pro-Pac crowd would make similar arguments for why Floyd is a chicken. It is meaningless talk to me as I am right in the middle of that argument. I think BOTH sides are to blame. I also think Pac is a legend and will go down as one of the greatest fighters of my generation. You think his entire career is a fraud. It is what it is.


this pretty much states it all tbf
mgrover
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 7 2014, 03:25 PM) *
Ask yourself; would you give 50% of your money to someone who hasn't contributed as much as you? The extra testing isn't extra when we know that people are cheating not only in this sport but in nearly all sports, not sure why you have a problem with that.

Leave the Promoter-sure, would you give Arum a chance to make money off of you when he still owes you $750,000?
I never heard of leaving the network, unless you are referring to the war between Showtime and HBO for which Mayweather has a 6 fight contract with and Manny who has no Network Contract (means he can leave at anytime).
Floyd isn't just a boxer, he is also a Promoter so it's not a surprise that he would try to recruit one of the most exciting fighters in the sport but that doesn't add up to ducking, that adds up to trying to put money into Manny's pocket.

Manny owes taxes, Floyd doesn't and I'm not sure why you made that as a reason to indicate whether or not someone is ducking, if anything Manny should've been breaking his neck and willing to do damn near anything to make that money so he can pay off the IRS to get out of his anus.

Nothing you stated can be construed as ducking unless you're just a simpleminded PacTURD then I could understand why one would think that it is.


Because at Cotto time, they were pretty even in terms of PPV and what not, and also with the testing, at the Cotto fight time, it was unheard of. If you asked someone to take extra testing it was because you thought they cheated, matter of pride.

Then tough, deal with it, and realistically Arum makes his money off Pac not Floyd so either way he makes money.

Recruit Manny and do what? Line his own pockets obviously, keeps the fight inhouse then wink.gif

Floyd stated that Manny needs to deal with tax problems and not him, so Pac says lets fight for charity, while clearly its not a business smart move, it does also mean that Pac isn't as broke as we think.
Dolimite
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 7 2014, 08:37 AM) *
Because at Cotto time, they were pretty even in terms of PPV and what not, and also with the testing, at the Cotto fight time, it was unheard of. If you asked someone to take extra testing it was because you thought they cheated, matter of pride.

Then tough, deal with it, and realistically Arum makes his money off Pac not Floyd so either way he makes money.

Recruit Manny and do what? Line his own pockets obviously, keeps the fight inhouse then wink.gif

Floyd stated that Manny needs to deal with tax problems and not him, so Pac says lets fight for charity, while clearly its not a business smart move, it does also mean that Pac isn't as broke as we think.

Which is why he is broke, I asked Ben about his tax issues and he said they were serious.
mgrover
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Mar 7 2014, 11:30 PM) *
Which is why he is broke, I asked Ben about his tax issues and he said they were serious.



we'll see how it plays out
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (KOpower @ Mar 7 2014, 10:30 AM) *
I was addressing it to you.

Those arguments are fine. The pro-Pac crowd would make similar arguments for why Floyd is a chicken. It is meaningless talk to me as I am right in the middle of that argument. I think BOTH sides are to blame. I also think Pac is a legend and will go down as one of the greatest fighters of my generation. You think his entire career is a fraud. It is what it is.



Remind me of where and when I stated this, please?? We're all waiting..................
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 7 2014, 10:37 AM) *
Because at Cotto time, they were pretty even in terms of PPV and what not, and also with the testing, at the Cotto fight time, it was unheard of. If you asked someone to take extra testing it was because you thought they cheated, matter of pride.

Then tough, deal with it, and realistically Arum makes his money off Pac not Floyd so either way he makes money.

Recruit Manny and do what? Line his own pockets obviously, keeps the fight inhouse then wink.gif

Floyd stated that Manny needs to deal with tax problems and not him, so Pac says lets fight for charity, while clearly its not a business smart move, it does also mean that Pac isn't as broke as we think.



Allow me to go backwards on this BS; First of all anyone and I mean absolutely ANYONE who believes that Manny (who is in rough dealings the IRS) would fight for Charity is a total F*CKING IDIOT!!!

Recruit Manny by not robbing him of 27% of his purse everytime he fights like Arum does. You still avoided the question about "would you fight for or against Arum if he owes you $750,000)?? Can't answer that huh? I bet you're the kind of person who wouldn't even speak to a person who owed you 50 cent until they paid you, lol.

I'll await for you to show us when Floyd and Manny were ever even in terms of PPV, please show us the numbers, we're waiting.......................................
KOpower
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 7 2014, 07:50 PM) *
Remind me of where and when I stated this, please?? We're all waiting..................


You essentially run down the list of Manny's big wins and throw an * next to ALL of them and NOW you are going to say you didn't do it? Come on man, have an opinion and stick with it.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (KOpower @ Mar 7 2014, 08:09 PM) *
You essentially run down the list of Manny's big wins and throw an * next to ALL of them and NOW you are going to say you didn't do it? Come on man, have an opinion and stick with it.



I have an opinion but I've never questioned ALL of his wins only his wins since his rematch vs Morales because that's when Ariza joined the team and now we have Freddie Roach who openly admitted that he (Alex Ariza) was giving Manny these "SPECIAL SHAKES" that dates back and coincides with his winning streak.

Get angry all you want if I don't go along with your Hero worship of Pacquiao but I'm just constructing a timeline based on the information that Freddie Roach provided along with Manny's crying about being afraid of needles and whining about how having blood drawn weakens him. It should be pretty obvious to draw a conclusion from that alone but I know some people aren't intelligent enough to decipher that code/read between the lines.
KOpower
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 7 2014, 11:20 PM) *
I have an opinion but I've never questioned ALL of his wins only his wins since his rematch vs Morales because that's when Ariza joined the team and now we have Freddie Roach who openly admitted that he (Alex Ariza) was giving Manny these "SPECIAL SHAKES" that dates back and coincides with his winning streak.

Get angry all you want if I don't go along with your Hero worship of Pacquiao but I'm just constructing a timeline based on the information that Freddie Roach provided along with Manny's crying about being afraid of needles and whining about how having blood drawn weakens him. It should be pretty obvious to draw a conclusion from that alone but I know some people aren't intelligent enough to decipher that code/read between the lines.


Man, if you put an * after all of his fights since the Morales rematch then you leave Manny with nothing except the first MAB. You already said JMM schooled Pac in the first fight, so even that draw has an * next to it. That means you think he is a complete fraud. It is what it is and post after post you rip Manny so don't try to back out of it now.

See, and there you go with the hero talk. Pac is not my hero. Not at all. The problem is that you are clearly a Mayweather fanboy and you Mayweather fanboys can't talk reasonably about Manny b/c to you guys it is an "us or them" mindset. You can't wrap your mind around a world where BOTH fighters are great....where BOTH fighters are legends....and where BOTH fighters are at fault for not making the fight happen. You are the exact same person as the "Pac-tards" you blast earlier in this thread, except you are on the "Money Team".

Like I said before, you are entitled to your opinion. You really are. I am entitled to mine and to me both fighters are great, both fighters are legends, and both fighters are to blame for the fight not happening. I also think Mayweather wins a UD if they fight but I have always thought Manny is easily Floyd's toughest challenge in the 140-147 pound weight class over the last 7-10 years. It is a real shame that they couldn't make the fight and it impacts the legacy of BOTH fighters. That is my opinion. Yours is that Mayweather=amazing, Manny=average fighter that has the world fooled, and Manny/Arum are 100% responsible for the fight not happening with Floyd handling everything brilliantly.

I got this thing figured out quite well.
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