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mgrover
So yeah, no more Sergey fight, hello Hopkins, if he does continue to fight on HBO, then maybe theres hope for other fighters etc.
Gambit808
http://www.fighthype.com/news/article16184.html

First the Guerrero snatch didn't work and now this. Stevenson is peaking right now with success so far and he seems to be ready for Kovolev giving his continued W's, with B-Hop also legitimately thrown into the discussion. Something's gotta give in this "Cold War" and it seems to me HBO/TR have a lot more to worry about than the other side. Am I wrong?
mgrover
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Feb 19 2014, 10:20 AM) *
http://www.fighthype.com/news/article16184.html

First the Guerrero snatch didn't work and now this. Stevenson is peaking right now with success so far and he seems to be ready for Kovolev giving his continued W's, with B-Hop also legitimately thrown into the discussion. Something's gotta give in this "Cold War" and it seems to me HBO/TR have a lot more to worry about than the other side. Am I wrong?



Just made a post about it earlier if somebody could merge the two, I've heard a few things:

1. Stevenson has a 3 fight deal with HBO
2. HBO may not show his next fight because of this
3. Yeah Hopkins
4. No Sergey, DUCKER, call it a smart business decision but all he's being doing he avoiding Sergey when asked, and this puts a whole network between them
5. Or maybe this is the beginning of the end for the cold war, and Stevenson is with Al Haymon but keeps fighting on HBO.
KOpower
Just another mouth to feed if you are Stevenson. The big fights now and in the future for Adonis are at HBO. Ward, Kov, Froch, Pascal, JCCJR at aome point, etc.
KOpower
If I e doesn't fight Kov then it is 100% a duck. Not sure why Haymon would be against that fight. It is the biggeat fight and biggeat payday. There will be no Hopkins fight as Adonis has a deal with HBO.
Gambit808
QUOTE (mgrover @ Feb 19 2014, 05:36 AM) *
Just made a post about it earlier if somebody could merge the two, I've heard a few things:

1. Stevenson has a 3 fight deal with HBO
2. HBO may not show his next fight because of this
3. Yeah Hopkins
4. No Sergey, DUCKER, call it a smart business decision but all he's being doing he avoiding Sergey when asked, and this puts a whole network between them
5. Or maybe this is the beginning of the end for the cold war, and Stevenson is with Al Haymon but keeps fighting on HBO.

I thought HBO was anti-GBP/Haymon? If this 3 fight deal is the case then something's gotta give between the two rivals, right?

I wouldn't call him a ducker. I thinkg like any fighter in his position, he's just going after what makes the most dollars. He's not exactly in his prime ya know, so if Kovolev keeps winning and building up his name then I believe it'll happen. Shit, if B-Hop is still the same B-Hop, then I'd say he's the most dangerous out of the 3, but we shall see.

P.S. I'm sure they'll merge the topics once they see it.
Gambit808
QUOTE (KOpower @ Feb 19 2014, 06:29 AM) *
If I e doesn't fight Kov then it is 100% a duck. Not sure why Haymon would be against that fight. It is the biggeat fight and biggeat payday. There will be no Hopkins fight as Adonis has a deal with HBO.

Come on now, Adonis Stevenson's been knocking dudes down and out just like Kovalev, what does he have to be scared of? This dude is in his mid 30's and has a legit fan base, so why not go for where the money's at? Kovolev don't have that same kind of fan base (yet) besides us boxing fans, so if they fought next, it wouldn't do the kind of numbers it has the potential of doing a couple more fights deep.
The Original MrFactor
I think Adonis beats Kovalev. I think he's trying to juice the pot right now. That could work against him, if someone gets to Kovalev before he does...
mrchitown
Good move for Stevenson. Haymon takes care of his fighters, one of the few that does that. I'm more interested to see how HBO handles the situation now that Haymon is back in the fold, presuming they continue to work with Adonis after this move. I'm hoping that this starts a thaw in the cold war
KOpower
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Feb 19 2014, 03:10 PM) *
Good move for Stevenson. Haymon takes care of his fighters, one of the few that does that. I'm more interested to see how HBO handles the situation now that Haymon is back in the fold, presuming they continue to work with Adonis after this move. I'm hoping that this starts a thaw in the cold war


How is he going to take care of Stevenson right now though? To me it just seems like Stevenson is paying Haymon for...what, exactly? Just to have one of those twins walk him to the ring? Haymon has no pull when it comes to HBO and that is who Stevenson is signed to. There is no threat of taking Adonis to Showtime anytime soon, so where does Haymon's value come into play? Haymon does a good job when it comes to getting his fighters soft touches, but he can't do that to HBO because HBO will tell him to piss off. HBO won't scratch Al's back because he doesn't have many HBO fighters to use as leverage. At Showtime, he has that leverage. Paulie signing with Al was a good move. Lucas signing with Al was a good move. Adonis? Not so much.

Stevenson should have hired Al a few months before the last fight of his HBO deal. That would give him good leverage.
mrchitown
QUOTE (KOpower @ Feb 19 2014, 09:03 PM) *
How is he going to take care of Stevenson right now though? To me it just seems like Stevenson is paying Haymon for...what, exactly? Just to have one of those twins walk him to the ring? Haymon has no pull when it comes to HBO and that is who Stevenson is signed to. There is no threat of taking Adonis to Showtime anytime soon, so where does Haymon's value come into play? Haymon does a good job when it comes to getting his fighters soft touches, but he can't do that to HBO because HBO will tell him to piss off. HBO won't scratch Al's back because he doesn't have many HBO fighters to use as leverage. At Showtime, he has that leverage. Paulie signing with Al was a good move. Lucas signing with Al was a good move. Adonis? Not so much.

Stevenson should have hired Al a few months before the last fight of his HBO deal. That would give him good leverage.


I think your underestimating what Haymon brings to the table a bit here. Those soft touches you speak of were in HBO when another guy was running the show. What soft touches have we seen from Haymon fighters recently? Broner-Maidana, 2 fighters he managed wasn't a shot touch. Matthysse-Garcia another 2 he has wasn't a soft touch. Paulie signed with him and got a fight with Zab and is lined up for bigger things, that's not a soft touch. I can go on and on about the last few yrs of what Haymon has done to dispel this soft touch notion...and Stevenson has leverage mow with Haymon in his corner. let's be real we're not talking about some hack manager like a J Prince who does nothing. You really think if HBO don't wanna play ball that Haymon won't just cut the cord on them dudes. HBO has NO leverage because they need Adonis more then he needs them


HBO has more subscribers therefore their winning the ratings race but anyone can see that the best fights are all at Showtime. And it's only a 3 fight deal and we don't know if that is already including his last fight or just starting. Haymon, and you can ask anybody who is in the sport or who writes about the sport is the most powerful guy in boxing and you think he has no power over HBO? I disagree with that because he himself he's more powerful than the network

Haymon gets shit done, HBO will either have to accept the fact that Haymon is back or release Stevenson from the fight deal, as if Haymon would care if they did lol
mrchitown
According to Stevenson's promoter, there is no fight deal with HBO.
TheCritics
adding Haymon only guarantees he'll get 2.3M Berto type money when he faces Kovalev... I don't buy the automatic "duck" rhetoric like some

get your money Adonis
Jovi
wtf Berto is getting 2.3M when he fights?...The last dude he beat was collazo like when i was still in highschool.
mgrover
silly, gets 2.3 million for a fight. hes 30, if he invested that properly be set for life
mrchitown
QUOTE (Jovi @ Feb 20 2014, 05:13 PM) *
wtf Berto is getting 2.3M when he fights?...The last dude he beat was collazo like when i was still in highschool.


Haymon gets his fighters paid. Gotta love that about him
Cshel86
Not sure if Andre Berto cracks this 2.3M every time he fights, or most of the time, rather. The most that I've heard reported, was $1.6 for the Guerrero fight. He made a little less than that in the Ortiz fight, but again, I'm not sure he's made anything close to $2.3M.

I'm not even sure if Stevenson can pull in $2.3M, but he seems to have a bigger fan base than Berto, so who knows.
mgrover
This is kinda the easiest way to duck someone, fighters are just naive if they think they can fight someone from another network, Adonis clearly knows he leaves HBO he doesn't have to fight Sergey due to this cold war
KOpower
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Feb 20 2014, 09:28 AM) *
I think your underestimating what Haymon brings to the table a bit here. Those soft touches you speak of were in HBO when another guy was running the show. What soft touches have we seen from Haymon fighters recently? Broner-Maidana, 2 fighters he managed wasn't a shot touch. Matthysse-Garcia another 2 he has wasn't a soft touch. Paulie signed with him and got a fight with Zab and is lined up for bigger things, that's not a soft touch. I can go on and on about the last few yrs of what Haymon has done to dispel this soft touch notion...and Stevenson has leverage mow with Haymon in his corner. let's be real we're not talking about some hack manager like a J Prince who does nothing. You really think if HBO don't wanna play ball that Haymon won't just cut the cord on them dudes. HBO has NO leverage because they need Adonis more then he needs them


HBO has more subscribers therefore their winning the ratings race but anyone can see that the best fights are all at Showtime. And it's only a 3 fight deal and we don't know if that is already including his last fight or just starting. Haymon, and you can ask anybody who is in the sport or who writes about the sport is the most powerful guy in boxing and you think he has no power over HBO? I disagree with that because he himself he's more powerful than the network

Haymon gets shit done, HBO will either have to accept the fact that Haymon is back or release Stevenson from the fight deal, as if Haymon would care if they did lol


Haymon has no pull with HBO though. He can demand $10 million a fight for Stevenson, but HBO will just tell Al to piss off. HBO had to bend over backwards a bit with Al earlier because he worked with a ton of GBP fighters. Well, HBO isn't in the GBP game anymore so where is Al's leverage going to come from? If I am running HBO, why would I do anything extra for Adonis now that Al is on his payroll?

The players in the 168 and 175 pound weight class are on HBO. Kov, Ward, Froch, JCCJR, Pascal, GGG eventually, etc. Those are the money fights for Stevenson. What is waiting for him at Showtime? A 50 year old Benard Hopkins? Come on. Al Haymon cares about his fighters...right? Well he isn't taking Mr. Stevenson to Showtime. That would be career suicide.
mrchitown
QUOTE (KOpower @ Feb 21 2014, 04:38 PM) *
Haymon has no pull with HBO though. He can demand $10 million a fight for Stevenson, but HBO will just tell Al to piss off. HBO had to bend over backwards a bit with Al earlier because he worked with a ton of GBP fighters. Well, HBO isn't in the GBP game anymore so where is Al's leverage going to come from? If I am running HBO, why would I do anything extra for Adonis now that Al is on his payroll?

The players in the 168 and 175 pound weight class are on HBO. Kov, Ward, Froch, JCCJR, Pascal, GGG eventually, etc. Those are the money fights for Stevenson. What is waiting for him at Showtime? A 50 year old Benard Hopkins? Come on. Al Haymon cares about his fighters...right? Well he isn't taking Mr. Stevenson to Showtime. That would be career suicide.



Are you saying he doesn't care about his fighters? I challenge you to do some intensive research and prove me wrong.

Haymon is that dude, the biggest fight for him is Kovalev this is true. But there are other solid light HW's he can fight that he can fight in Showtime. And I'm trying to figure out wtf you meant by a 50yr old Hopkins?

Dint act like Bernard isn't still wrecking shit in the sport of boxing, until Adonis or Sergey beat him I stand firm in my belief that Bernard is the champ at 175. Out of the fighters you mentioned not many are realistic...Froch ain't shit he on his way out, stop mentioning Golovkin like he want it lol... he got called out by the very people he claims he would fight and he back peddled. Pascal is viable, he doesn't have a multi fight agreement with HBO, Chavez jr....next...can we even say this guy is going to make it to his next fight, and he's in 168....Ward and Kovalev is all he needs out the bunch. the rest are fillers. And the way they treat Ward, I don't know how much longer he sticks around in HBO

Stevenson wants to get paid and regardless he will now that Haymon is in his corner you and the HBO guys your in here defending better get that thru your head
KOpower
Who are the fighters at 168 and 175 for Stevenson at GBP? Why would he possibly leave HBO? The bigger and better fights for him are at HBO and nobody can debate that.

Again, if I am running HBO, why am I giving Stevenson a dime more than he otherwise would get? Al Haymon has no leverage at HBO. None. I just don't see the value of Haymon for Stevenson and you have yet to explain to me why HBO would negotiate with Stevenson any differently now that he has AH on his side.
mrchitown
QUOTE (KOpower @ Feb 21 2014, 07:43 PM) *
Who are the fighters at 168 and 175 for Stevenson at GBP? Why would he possibly leave HBO? The bigger and better fights for him are at HBO and nobody can debate that.

Again, if I am running HBO, why am I giving Stevenson a dime more than he otherwise would get? Al Haymon has no leverage at HBO. None. I just don't see the value of Haymon for Stevenson and you have yet to explain to me why HBO would negotiate with Stevenson any differently now that he has AH on his side.


Yup the bigger fights as in Sergey and Andre are at HBO and I'm not saying they should negotiate differently with Stevenson now that Haymon is involved but you've yet to acknowledge that Stevenson is looking for bigger money. If your stance is HBO is needed more by Stevenson then I laugh at you. True, there's two fights for him there that actually mean something. But he brought in Haymon for bigger fight purses, so what is going to happen if he doesn't get it, he'll walk across the street.

If your running HBO and you don't want to pay him a dime more then he's getting then I'd tell you to fuck off because your business sense is shit. A fight with Kovalev is worth a lot of money and he wants to be compensated. Haymon gets his fighters paid...point blank period. they gon pay the man or they're going to be down another fighter and a big fight gone.

You say who GB has at 168 and 175, but you ain't telling me shit outside of a few names that HBO has...there are other credible opponents at 175 besides Kovalev, that division is heating up but most ain't paying attention to it. I'm being realistic, besides Ward and Sergey, them other cats you named ain't fighting him. Pascal even danced around it.

HBO doesn't have exclusive rights to the boxers who fight on their network so whose to say if Adonis left that they won't fight him on Showtime. It's a lot of bullshit being thrown around by fighters who claim networks in the way and they don't have exclusive deals with those networks. Haymon has the leverage of potentially killing a fight they've wanted to make, a big ratings fight..Haymon taking Stevenson to Showtime would fuck them up...Stevenson clearly doesn't care either way because he's coveted a Hopkins fight more then one with Kovalev and he'd get paid handsomely for such a fight...Haymon is a powerful figure, he's got leverage whether you choose to see it or not

Your underestimating and under valuing what Haymon brings to the table. Everything your saying is speculation but Haymon's track record in the business speaks for itself. The fan favorite network for I can't even count the yrs, feature fighters he manages. He has power bro lol
KOpower
Stevenson may look for bigger money and that is fine but Al Haymon isn't going to get it for him at HBO b/c he has no leverage there. He can't just "walk across the street" either b/c the fights aren't there that lead to the bigger money. That's my point. If Stevenson was signed to Showtime and Showtime had the best fighters at 168 and 175, Haymon makes sense b/c Haymon could use the leverage he has with other Showtime fighters to get Stevenson a better deal. With HBO he has no leverage. Look, if Stevenson signs with Haymon and the first thing Haymon does is take him to Showtime then Stevenson got robbed blind. HBO clearly has the biggest fights at 168 and 175.

You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say I wouldn't pay Stevenson a "dime more". What I am saying is that a fight with Kov is worth X for HBO to try and put together. That X does NOT increase because Stevenson decided to add Haymon to his payroll b/c Al doesn't have the leverage at HBO that he has at Showtime. Would Al Haymon really take Stevenson over to Showtime? If you are Stevenson, do you really want to leave HBO and their stable? Do you really want to go fight a "Golden Boy Promotions" legend on the "Golden Boy Promotions" network? Would Showtime really pay a non-GBP fighter MORE than HBO would to fight lesser opposition? HIGHLY unlikely.

The threat of Haymon taking Stevenson to Showtime isn't going to work. It won't get him more money at HBO. There just aren't many good options at Showtime and the LAST thing HBO wants to do is get back into the business of paying Al Haymon fighters more just because Al Haymon represents them. That was a fiasco with Berto and it certainly had a hand in them cutting ties with GBP all together. The fight with Kov makes sense, but it doesn't make sense for HBO if they have to give Stevenson some insane deal to do it. HBO still does better numbers than Showtime. They aren't going to go back down the Al Haymon rabbit hole
mrchitown
I get what your saying but you know as I know there's an reaction to every action. There's only a few ways this is going to go and HBO can accept that or not. They'll still have Sergey

I look at Haymon like this. David Falk is comparable to Haymon. He was Jordans agent, still reps him now I believe. He fought tooth and nail for Mike and his other clients. He became so powerful that the league was seen as Jordan and then Falk. He was a central key in ending the lockout of 98-99. And to this day he gets players who are role players close to max deals.

That's what Haymon does, he takes an avg fighter or even a great one and ups everything about them and around them. This is a powerful man who runs the game much like David Falk does as an agent. His methods of managing and his track record is one of great accomplishment. There is no player Falk can't help just as there is no fighter Haymon can't help. They are battle tested and proven
KOpower
It's not like Showtime is waiting to give Adonis extra money. There is nobody for him to fight outside of Hopkins and Showtime as it stands now is maxed out paying everyone that they currently pay. The threat of Showtime isn't much....and that is assuming Stevenson even has the ability to leave HBO right now.

HBO is HBO. They aren't going to give Stevenson an insane contract to fight Kov because they are scared of Al Haymon. They have great businessmen there and they have a number they won't go over.

The bottom line is that I just hope the fight gets made. It would be an explosive battle.
mrchitown
QUOTE (KOpower @ Feb 22 2014, 03:03 PM) *
It's not like Showtime is waiting to give Adonis extra money. There is nobody for him to fight outside of Hopkins and Showtime as it stands now is maxed out paying everyone that they currently pay. The threat of Showtime isn't much....and that is assuming Stevenson even has the ability to leave HBO right now.

HBO is HBO. They aren't going to give Stevenson an insane contract to fight Kov because they are scared of Al Haymon. They have great businessmen there and they have a number they won't go over.

The bottom line is that I just hope the fight gets made. It would be an explosive battle.



You don't accumulate the reputation of Haymon and hit have power, I'll leave it at that. We don't know if Showtime is maxed out, I haven't seen anything to support that and I'm not trying to be funny but whose a great businessman at HBO? I know damn well your not talking about Hershman?

I'd rather have Haymon managing my business affairs then anyone at HBO. Hershman is in Greenburg's shadow. When Mayweather went to Showtime and Greenburg went over there it was a wrap. The ratings are in HBO'S favor but the best fights belong to Showtime. Ken Hershman is just small time compared to across Greenbug...it's proof of that in the past and currently

I want to see the fight as well, two action packed fighters going at it. I still don't believe their the best in the division though. Until one or the other beats Hopkins then he's the man
Hotsauce
black excellence
mrchitown
QUOTE (Hotsauce @ Feb 22 2014, 11:35 PM) *
black excellence


This is true
KOpower
The ratings are with HBO AND they are paying less money. Game over. Long-term I think GBP and HBO need to work it out, but for now HBO is doing good. Ratings=money. If HBO can get bigger ratings while spending less on fights, they win.

I don't know about Hopkins. He clearly was beat by Dawson and since then he beat Cloud and Murat. Mehhh. It may be a matchup thing...Dawson beats Hopkins, Hopkins beats Stevenson, and Stevenson beats Dawson.
mrchitown
QUOTE (KOpower @ Feb 23 2014, 01:16 PM) *
The ratings are with HBO AND they are paying less money. Game over. Long-term I think GBP and HBO need to work it out, but for now HBO is doing good. Ratings=money. If HBO can get bigger ratings while spending less on fights, they win.

I don't know about Hopkins. He clearly was beat by Dawson and since then he beat Cloud and Murat. Mehhh. It may be a matchup thing...Dawson beats Hopkins, Hopkins beats Stevenson, and Stevenson beats Dawson.

If the game was over then Showtime wouldn't be named the network of the year 2yrs in a row. The ratings stuff is skewed by the fact that there are more subscribers with HBO and somehow the gap is still being closed by Showtime. Know why that is? Better cards and better fights are being made across the street. The game has just begun...who enjoyed watching Zou yesterday or Miguel Vasquez boring ass?? I didn't think so.

If Bernard isn't the best at 175 then there ain't no best. It's insulting to say that one guy who just moved up to light heavy and ko'd s fighter who was ko'd by the 2nd best fighters in the business is the king of that division. Then beats Cloud who was already soundly beaten by Bernard. There's no case for Adonis as the king of that weight class then. Kovalev, who the hell did he beat? Campillo? Next...Hopkins been at the upper echelon of that division for quite a while and it's insulting that 2 guys get knockouts now they run the division. That's hype clouding the fans' minds.
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