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Aware
The more I think about it, I'd have to say yeah. It's the clench after that first right hand Mosley landed in the second round that made me realize it and I've been seeing little things like that ever since. The "tester" jab against Canelo in the first round, for example, fucking brilliant! Now in that interview on the front he says, "I can feel a fighter - it's like a sixth sense. I can make a certain move to make a fighter shoot a shot to burn himself". He's on that next level shit bros.
BoxingEinstein

Mayweather is certainly one of a kind. He has a unique ability to make his opponents not look themselves on even some of his worst nights.

His reflexes and anticipation of punches is on another level. Still its a shame his ATG skill level won't be appreciated until he's gone for good.
Aware
QUOTE (BoxingEinstein @ Mar 9 2014, 03:13 AM) *
Mayweather is certainly one of a kind. He has a unique ability to make his opponents not look themselves on even some of his worst nights.

His reflexes and anticipation of punches is on another level. Still its a shame his ATG skill level won't be appreciated until he's gone for good.


Do you have any specific examples I can go look at?
Aware
Obviously Mayweather has left his physical prime, but now I believe he is in his mental prime. His physical prime masterpieces would include Corrales and Gatti. I think his first mental prime masterpiece was the Canelo fight. I actually think he's a better fighter now.
klonopinz
He said these things years ago. I beleive in de la hoy 24/7 he said he can feel when a guy is going to punch. Hes always had that 6th sense IMO, you can see it back in 1999 and still see it now. Im surprised he talks about it now bevause its taken years for him to open up about his skills.
Aware
QUOTE (klonopinz @ Mar 9 2014, 05:50 PM) *
He said these things years ago. I beleive in de la hoy 24/7 he said he can feel when a guy is going to punch. Hes always had that 6th sense IMO, you can see it back in 1999 and still see it now. Im surprised he talks about it now bevause its taken years for him to open up about his skills.


I was not trying to imply that he recently gained these abilities and that's why he's in his mental prime now. The reason I think he's in his mental prime is because the depth of his strategy has increased. He is much more efficient in his punch output. He probes his opponents early for weaknesses and sets up tactics that are sometimes used several rounds later. That takes an incredible memory, talent, and creativity. Furthermore, he captures his opponents rhythm within two rounds. These are things that he has always done, but now he's just better.
BrutUalBK
Mentally he's the most intellectual fighter we have in the game, he is on another level in his ability to anticipate and remain one step ahead of his opponents but then again, it isn't all mental because he still has to be able to apply what he can master mentally in a physical form. He may not be as physically gifted as far as speed like when he was at 130 but he has parlayed his ability in economical leaps in bounds to the point where he doesn't have to rely on physicality alone to get the job done.

I think he is the first boxing Savant.
BoxingEinstein
QUOTE (Aware @ Mar 9 2014, 04:29 AM) *
Do you have any specific examples I can go look at?


Check

Mayweather vs Chavez - He literally broke his hand on a decent fighters head and his other hand was already hurt from a past fight yet he still makes Chavez look less than trash.

Mayweather vs Judah- Judah was the faster or about same speed as Mayweather which caused Floyd problems. Watch closely as Floyd studies Judah's routine and slips/counters punches that look like it landed on Floyd.

Even now in his past prime physical form he did it against Guerrero and Canelo both respective champs in their weight class IMO.
readydog72
What Floyd is, is a fighter with tremendous reflexes and a high level of experience. Savant is a little too much.

Mayweather outclasses most boxers out here today 140-154 probably 160 too. Chavez and Guerrero shouldn't have been in the ring with him.
Zab Judah lacked the mental capacity and fundamentals to have beat Floyd. IMO i think the 2 fighters that he has faced that had a chance to beat him are Zab and Mosley. Zab's quickness and speed matched Floyd's but he has a horrble corner and no focus; Mosley's conditioning fell off bad later in his career.

Canelo lacked experience and probably speed as well.

This fight with Maidana is gonna be horrible; his style is what Floyd feeds on; Telegraphed wild swings.
Before i could even go as far as calling him a Savant we would have to see him in the ring where he is faced with a true challenge from Boxers he "sorta" avoids. I think we will miss the chance to see him in another good showdown because the Belts have no control over marquee fighters. So many fans are blind to what makes a good match-up.



BrutUalBK
QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 10 2014, 03:55 PM) *
What Floyd is, is a fighter with tremendous reflexes and a high level of experience. Savant is a little too much.

Mayweather outclasses most boxers out here today 140-154 probably 160 too. Chavez and Guerrero shouldn't have been in the ring with him.
Zab Judah lacked the mental capacity and fundamentals to have beat Floyd. IMO i think the 2 fighters that he has faced that had a chance to beat him are Zab and Mosley. Zab's quickness and speed matched Floyd's but he has a horrble corner and no focus; Mosley's conditioning fell off bad later in his career.

Canelo lacked experience and probably speed as well.

This fight with Maidana is gonna be horrible; his style is what Floyd feeds on; Telegraphed wild swings.
Before i could even go as far as calling him a Savant we would have to see him in the ring where he is faced with a true challenge from Boxers he "sorta" avoids. I think we will miss the chance to see him in another good showdown because the Belts have no control over marquee fighters. So many fans are blind to what makes a good match-up.



Let's start backwards on your post:

What fighters Floyd "SORTA" avoids???

I disagree that Canelo lacked experience, dude has as many fights as Mayweather, he was made to look that way, look how he outclassed Mosley and Angulo and on top of that gave Trout a run for his money. You stating that Saul lacked experience sounds like an excuse not to give Mayweather his credit.

Young Mosley, old Mosley-either of them would've been beaten by Floyd because Shane did the same thing he has always done in the sport of boxing-his style never changed.

Zab-didn't do as well as people were making it seem as he did, go and re-watch that fight and see how Floyd made him expend his energy uselessly as Floyd Sr had already told his son that Judah was a Frontrunner (meaning he uses up his gas early and slows down quickly enough to be taken apart), we saw what happened by the end of the fight and he had about as much a chance of winning vs Floyd as Shane did and you see how he lost; Zab fouled out-hit the ballsack to avoid getting KO'd so I'm not sure why you thought this fight was even close.

For everyone you mentioned Saul, Zab and Shane you provided an excuse or some lame reasoning as to why you "thought" they had the better chance or didn't measure up, why not just add that up to Floyd's ability to take away their normal dominance over their previous opponents and give him the credit he deserves for being the one to exploit them??

Floyd has faced every style you can find in the sport of boxing and he has solved them all with relative ease for the most part, give us a description of a style he hasn't faced or mastered, if you cannot provide one then therein lies the proof that he is a boxing Savant.
readydog72
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 10 2014, 07:03 PM) *
Let's start backwards on your post:

What fighters Floyd "SORTA" avoids???

I disagree that Canelo lacked experience, dude has as many fights as Mayweather, he was made to look that way, look how he outclassed Mosley and Angulo and on top of that gave Trout a run for his money. You stating that Saul lacked experience sounds like an excuse not to give Mayweather his credit.

Young Mosley, old Mosley-either of them would've been beaten by Floyd because Shane did the same thing he has always done in the sport of boxing-his style never changed.

Zab-didn't do as well as people were making it seem as he did, go and re-watch that fight and see how Floyd made him expend his energy uselessly as Floyd Sr had already told his son that Judah was a Frontrunner (meaning he uses up his gas early and slows down quickly enough to be taken apart), we saw what happened by the end of the fight and he had about as much a chance of winning vs Floyd as Shane did and you see how he lost; Zab fouled out-hit the ballsack to avoid getting KO'd so I'm not sure why you thought this fight was even close.

For everyone you mentioned Saul, Zab and Shane you provided an excuse or some lame reasoning as to why you "thought" they had the better chance or didn't measure up, why not just add that up to Floyd's ability to take away their normal dominance over their previous opponents and give him the credit he deserves for being the one to exploit them??

Floyd has faced every style you can find in the sport of boxing and he has solved them all with relative ease for the most part, give us a description of a style he hasn't faced or mastered, if you cannot provide one then therein lies the proof that he is a boxing Savant.


First off i am a Mayweather fan. Im not trying to make any excuses for any of these guys.
Many boxers avoided the late Paul Williams, Floyd isn't alone there.
About Zab and Shane, i said had a chance, based on their speed and quickness. Floyd dismantled the both of them, i watched both fights several times. He took everything from them like he has done for sometime.
Zab knocked him down and Shane landed the hardest and cleanest shot ever on him.
I love to watch Floyd but he and his camp hand picked Guerrero, Ortiz, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir and now Maidana.
Saul does have a bunch of fights but not many quality ones. Check his sheet.
Im not taking any credit away from Floyd Im saying he is at a point that he is so good that none of these guys pose a challenge anymore, and he knows this.
Like you're saying he has seen every style. He has a counter for just about everything we have seen.
Maidana may be a champ but regardless he is mediocre and will be dominated bad.
I cannot and probably will not be able to give a clear answer on if he is a Savant because nobody has ever placed him in trouble. His adjustments decimate the competition.
Were Roy and Ali both Savants?
Aware
QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 10 2014, 06:56 PM) *
First off i am a Mayweather fan. Im not trying to make any excuses for any of these guys.
Many boxers avoided the late Paul Williams, Floyd isn't alone there.
About Zab and Shane, i said had a chance, based on their speed and quickness. Floyd dismantled the both of them, i watched both fights several times. He took everything from them like he has done for sometime.
Zab knocked him down and Shane landed the hardest and cleanest shot ever on him.
I love to watch Floyd but he and his camp hand picked Guerrero, Ortiz, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir and now Maidana.
Saul does have a bunch of fights but not many quality ones. Check his sheet.
Im not taking any credit away from Floyd Im saying he is at a point that he is so good that none of these guys pose a challenge anymore, and he knows this.
Like you're saying he has seen every style. He has a counter for just about everything we have seen.
Maidana may be a champ but regardless he is mediocre and will be dominated bad.
I cannot and probably will not be able to give a clear answer on if he is a Savant because nobody has ever placed him in trouble. His adjustments decimate the competition.
Were Roy and Ali both Savants?


You don't see it and maybe you can't. Yes he's been in trouble. The Mosley fight, with Corley, and Zab. They all buzzed him good. And no Ali and Roy are not boxing savants. You've seen Ali's rope-a-dope and then Mayweather took it to a whole new level against N'dou. What people don't understand is that no one has ever done it like that before. Roy's style needed Roy to be in his physical prime to be the best. Those two counter rights Mayweather landed against De La Hoya off the ropes - never been seen before. He set that up many rounds before by going to the ropes again and again but not throwing anything, just being patient until he knew it was safe. The touch jab that caused Canelo to drop his guard for the perfect counter right. That's just the obvious shit man. The clench bro, the one I mentioned in the first post, watch it! It's so funny to me some people just don't get it. Every time out he adjusts his style and you see something is a little different against each opponent - a slightly different look. He is the first boxer to be able to adapt effortlessly in real time and solve his opponent. If Sugar Ray Leonard had half of the brain Mayweather has he would have been able to adjust to Duran in the first fight and beat him. Instead, he tried the same thing over and over again which gave him no more than a 50/50 chance. He had the physical advantage.
Aware
Rigondeaux is the only other boxer in the world I've seen that even comes close. Rigondeaux is to Mayweather as Andre Ward is to Hopkins.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 10 2014, 05:56 PM) *
First off i am a Mayweather fan. Im not trying to make any excuses for any of these guys.
Many boxers avoided the late Paul Williams, Floyd isn't alone there.
About Zab and Shane, i said had a chance, based on their speed and quickness. Floyd dismantled the both of them, i watched both fights several times. He took everything from them like he has done for sometime.
Zab knocked him down and Shane landed the hardest and cleanest shot ever on him.
I love to watch Floyd but he and his camp hand picked Guerrero, Ortiz, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir and now Maidana.
Saul does have a bunch of fights but not many quality ones. Check his sheet.
Im not taking any credit away from Floyd Im saying he is at a point that he is so good that none of these guys pose a challenge anymore, and he knows this.
Like you're saying he has seen every style. He has a counter for just about everything we have seen.
Maidana may be a champ but regardless he is mediocre and will be dominated bad.
I cannot and probably will not be able to give a clear answer on if he is a Savant because nobody has ever placed him in trouble. His adjustments decimate the competition.
Were Roy and Ali both Savants?



No Roy or Ali were not boxing savants, once Jones lost his reflexes he was what I thought he was=Fundamentally flawed!! Roy was never a master of the basic boxing fundamentals and he always made mistakes which when he was at his peak he was able to get away with but once his reflexes vacated we saw those mistakes being exposed over and over again and again.

Ali showed early into his career that he wasn't a Savant; he lost to Frazier and his lack of a great defense and the fact that he needed 3 fights to definitely beat him was proof that he lacked the sound fundamental adjustment on the fly to take him clearly above Joe Frazier, the same can be said of him in his losses to Ken Norton and this is especially true of him losing to a guy like Leon Spinks who only had 7 fights at the time he beat Ali.

Floyd has shown with his defensive and offensive abilities that he doesn't rely on reflexes as he is 37 and still at the top of the boxing game, he has slowed down immensely but his fundamentals and mastery of boxing is so sound that he rarely makes anything that can be considered a mistake and if you couple that with his split second ability to make major or even minor adjustments on the fly and solve even the most challenging of styles or situations where he has gotten into trouble only to come out totally dominant.
Aware
QUOTE (BrutUalBK @ Mar 10 2014, 09:43 PM) *
No Roy or Ali were not boxing savants, once Jones lost his reflexes he was what I thought he was=Fundamentally flawed!! Roy was never a master of the basic boxing fundamentals and he always made mistakes which when he was at his peak he was able to get away with but once his reflexes vacated we saw those mistakes being exposed over and over again and again.

Ali showed early into his career that he wasn't a Savant; he lost to Frazier and his lack of a great defense and the fact that he needed 3 fights to definitely beat him was proof that he lacked the sound fundamental adjustment on the fly to take him clearly above Joe Frazier, the same can be said of him in his losses to Ken Norton and this is especially true of him losing to a guy like Leon Spinks who only had 7 fights at the time he beat Ali.

Floyd has shown with his defensive and offensive abilities that he doesn't rely on reflexes as he is 37 and still at the top of the boxing game, he has slowed down immensely but his fundamentals and mastery of boxing is so sound that he rarely makes anything that can be considered a mistake and if you couple that with his split second ability to make major or even minor adjustments on the fly and solve even the most challenging of styles or situations where he has gotten into trouble only to come out totally dominant.


Word up man! We're on the same wavelength.
MAHDI
I agree with the poster... I ADD THAT BERNARD HOPKINS IS A SAVANT AS WELL and has been distinguished as such ...
Aware
QUOTE (MAHDI @ Mar 10 2014, 09:48 PM) *
I agree with the poster... I ADD THAT BERNARD HOPKINS IS A SAVANT AS WELL and has been distinguished as such ...


No doubt Hopkins is one of the most brilliant fighters to ever lace up the gloves, but I wouldn't label him a savant. I think there has to be something transcendent and innate about the talent to be a savant. Like Tiger Woods has in golf, doing things no one has ever seen before. Mayweather born into it. Hopkins got into the game a little late and he just doesn't do some of the little things Mayweather does naturally.
Aware
Put it this way, Hopkins seems like a smart guy that has applied his intelligence towards boxing whereas Mayweather's brain was already hardwired for it.
MAHDI
GENETICS and evolution...
readydog72
QUOTE (Aware @ Mar 10 2014, 10:12 PM) *
You don't see it and maybe you can't. Yes he's been in trouble. The Mosley fight, with Corley, and Zab. They all buzzed him good. And no Ali and Roy are not boxing savants. You've seen Ali's rope-a-dope and then Mayweather took it to a whole new level against N'dou. What people don't understand is that no one has ever done it like that before. Roy's style needed Roy to be in his physical prime to be the best. Those two counter rights Mayweather landed against De La Hoya off the ropes - never been seen before. He set that up many rounds before by going to the ropes again and again but not throwing anything, just being patient until he knew it was safe. The touch jab that caused Canelo to drop his guard for the perfect counter right. That's just the obvious shit man. The clench bro, the one I mentioned in the first post, watch it! It's so funny to me some people just don't get it. Every time out he adjusts his style and you see something is a little different against each opponent - a slightly different look. He is the first boxer to be able to adapt effortlessly in real time and solve his opponent. If Sugar Ray Leonard had half of the brain Mayweather has he would have been able to adjust to Duran in the first fight and beat him. Instead, he tried the same thing over and over again which gave him no more than a 50/50 chance. He had the physical advantage.


oh i see now whats up with this thread for sure.

that's 3 fighters who got shots in on Floyd that mattered. He may have lost 4/36 rounds.
The corley fight was before he started hand picking the likes of Guerrero, Ortiz, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir and now Maidana.

I believe Floyd is one of the Top 3 fighters 130-154 of all-time but Savant that's going too far. Maybe if he trains another fighter to do what he has then maybe.
Aware
QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 10 2014, 10:34 PM) *
oh i see now whats up with this thread for sure.

that's 3 fighters who got shots in on Floyd that mattered. He may have lost 4/36 rounds.
The corley fight was before he started hand picking the likes of Guerrero, Ortiz, Marquez, Hatton, Baldomir and now Maidana.

I believe Floyd is one of the Top 3 fighters 130-154 of all-time but Savant that's going too far. Maybe if he trains another fighter to do what he has then maybe.


You just don't get it...
readydog72
QUOTE (Aware @ Mar 11 2014, 12:04 AM) *
You just don't get it...


I do get it and you dont have to keep making it seem like i don't cause i dont agree with all you guys are typing. Savant is like the best ever; know all see all.
it just feel it tough for me to label him as such when he hasn't been "officially" knocked down or struggled. Yes you pick out a couple fights but he still owned them.


the thread label is in question format, so no.
Floyd the boxer is one of my all-time favorites but i should still be able to post my opinion without having to face the insults.
Aware
QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 11 2014, 12:33 AM) *
I do get it and you dont have to keep making it seem like i don't cause i dont agree with all you guys are typing. Savant is like the best ever; know all see all.
it just feel it tough for me to label him as such when he hasn't been "officially" knocked down or struggled. Yes you pick out a couple fights but he still owned them.


the thread label is in question format, so no.
Floyd the boxer is one of my all-time favorites but i should still be able to post my opinion without having to face the insults.



Our problem lies in our definition of savant. To me a savant is someone who seems to be born with an unimaginable amount of natural talent in a specific field. I do believe he is the most talented fighter there has ever been, but this is boxing and fighters like Sugar Ray Robinson and Thomas Hearns would have a great chance to beat him. Not arguing he's the best ever, just the most talented and it's not even close. People just can't fathom that, but it's true.
readydog72
QUOTE (Aware @ Mar 11 2014, 12:52 AM) *
Our problem lies in our definition of savant. To me a savant is someone who seems to be born with an unimaginable amount of natural talent in a specific field. I do believe he is the most talented fighter there has ever been, but this is boxing and fighters like Sugar Ray Robinson and Thomas Hearns would have a great chance to beat him. Not arguing he's the best ever, just the most talented and it's not even close. People just can't fathom that, but it's true.


History is just that history. Boxing was more slugging in Robinson's day. What Floyd has in front of him now doesn't measure up. I was joking earlier about Ali and Roy but if you look at it, Roy had the same issue but didn't approach it like Floyd has. I think Roy had more natural talent than anyone but was as near fundamentally sound as Floyd. Floyd work ethic in the gym is off the charts as well.
Roy had nobody to fight, got bored and started doing crazy stuff. All of the above mentioned had gifts that others didn't. Ali could actually make people walk right into his uppercut. Roy could just go against all fundamentals; then there is Floyd, He takes fighters that are elite fighters against the field and makes them look mediocre through his adjustments.
IF, the power was in the belts we would get a chance to see other fights made. In these fights you would get more wild and random match-ups to give us a wider scope to see a Savant.

Aware
QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 11 2014, 12:25 AM) *
History is just that history. Boxing was more slugging in Robinson's day. What Floyd has in front of him now doesn't measure up. I was joking earlier about Ali and Roy but if you look at it, Roy had the same issue but didn't approach it like Floyd has. I think Roy had more natural talent than anyone but was as near fundamentally sound as Floyd. Floyd work ethic in the gym is off the charts as well.
Roy had nobody to fight, got bored and started doing crazy stuff. All of the above mentioned had gifts that others didn't. Ali could actually make people walk right into his uppercut. Roy could just go against all fundamentals; then there is Floyd, He takes fighters that are elite fighters against the field and makes them look mediocre through his adjustments.
IF, the power was in the belts we would get a chance to see other fights made. In these fights you would get more wild and random match-ups to give us a wider scope to see a Savant.



Now we have the definition of natural talent confused sad.gif Of course, Roy Jones was more talented than Floyd physically. In terms of boxing talent, I don't agree. With that said, if they were at the same weight, in their prime, it would be a 50/50 fight. Roy's physical advantages might trump the skills of Mayweather.
readydog72
QUOTE (Aware @ Mar 11 2014, 01:47 AM) *
Now we have the definition of natural talent confused sad.gif Of course, Roy Jones was more talented than Floyd physically. In terms of boxing talent, I don't agree. With that said, if they were at the same weight, in their prime it would be a 50/50 fight. Roy's physical advantages might trump the skills of Mayweather.


I think what you're calling boxing talent im calling fundamentals. I kind of see natural talent as accuracy, quickness and speed. For instance Adrien Broner is naturally talented but his fundamentals are awful.
Just a difference in definitions but i see what you're saying.
In you're example i see the quickness 50/50, accuracy and speed to Floyd, Punching power to Roy. I have Floyd's grasp of pure boxing fundamentals far ahead of Roy's. We can only wonder.
Aware
QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 11 2014, 02:02 AM) *
I think what you're calling boxing talent im calling fundamentals. I kind of see natural talent as accuracy, quickness and speed. For instance Adrien Broner is naturally talented but his fundamentals are awful.
Just a difference in definitions but i see what you're saying.
In you're example i see the quickness 50/50, accuracy and speed to Floyd, Punching power to Roy. I have Floyd's grasp of pure boxing fundamentals far ahead of Roy's. We can only wonder.



No, boxing talent to me is much more than that. Imagine a magical computer that could input all the variables that a given boxer uses in the ring (including brain synapses and undefinable intangibles) into a program that analyzes them and spits out a value.
readydog72
QUOTE (Aware @ Mar 11 2014, 02:14 AM) *
No, boxing talent to me is much more than that. Imagine a magical computer that could input all the variables that a given boxer uses in the ring (including brain synapses and undefinable intangibles) into a program that analyzes them and spits out a value.

Whoa ok, youre going waaay into it. Yep i just see that as fundamentals or boxing IQ, which Floyd's is off the charts. Floyd can adjust better than any i have seen. He takes away a boxers strengths or his energy.
I agree with you on all that but i really just feel Savant is too strong of a word.
BrutUalBK
QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 10 2014, 11:25 PM) *
History is just that history. Boxing was more slugging in Robinson's day. What Floyd has in front of him now doesn't measure up. I was joking earlier about Ali and Roy but if you look at it, Roy had the same issue but didn't approach it like Floyd has. I think Roy had more natural talent than anyone but was as near fundamentally sound as Floyd. Floyd work ethic in the gym is off the charts as well.
Roy had nobody to fight, got bored and started doing crazy stuff. All of the above mentioned had gifts that others didn't. Ali could actually make people walk right into his uppercut. Roy could just go against all fundamentals; then there is Floyd, He takes fighters that are elite fighters against the field and makes them look mediocre through his adjustments.
IF, the power was in the belts we would get a chance to see other fights made. In these fights you would get more wild and random match-ups to give us a wider scope to see a Savant.



I totally disagree with Jones being as fundamentally sound as Mayweather, if he had been then he'd still possess those fundamentals today and quite possibly would've never gotten KO'd. Hopkins possesses equal fundamentals as Floyd and his longevity in this sport proves it, plus he's never been knocked out, whereas we saw what happened with the absence of these same defensive fundamentals in Roy.

Roy was naturally gifted with reflexes which doesn't equal fundamentals; Jones often made many offensive as well as defensive mistakes that he got away with because of his speed and reflexes. I remember how willingly Roy went to the ropes and didn't properly protect himself once he was there, his caging was faulty, he often brought both of his feet together when moving laterally (a huge mistake) and he stood in front of his opponents too long (this cost him in the Johnson fight) not using angles to get in his shots and move out in a different direction from when he threw his shots.

Study Floyd and Bernard and see how they usually throw from odd angles and then change directions, they never bring their feet together when moving laterally, they never cage on the ropes leaving big holes or simply leaning back onto the ropes looking for an opportune shot and their defensive fundamentals are leagues ahead of Roy's too.

If Ali was as fundamentally sound as you make him out to be then there was no way he would've gotten knocked down by Frazier as he pulled straight back (a huge fundamental flaw) after throwing his punches, he let a man with 7 fights beat him, there's no way you are fundamentally sound being exposed like that. I love Ali and Jones but neither are boxing Savants, Floyd does things otherworldly.
mgrover
In as few words as possible: Yes

For people that disagree: What doesn't he know how to do very well.

Finally the definition of savant is wise man/expert in their respective field.
AZWildCat
QUOTE (readydog72 @ Mar 11 2014, 12:33 AM) *
I do get it and you dont have to keep making it seem like i don't cause i dont agree with all you guys are typing. Savant is like the best ever; know all see all.
it just feel it tough for me to label him as such when he hasn't been "officially" knocked down or struggled. Yes you pick out a couple fights but he still owned them.


the thread label is in question format, so no.
Floyd the boxer is one of my all-time favorites but i should still be able to post my opinion without having to face the insults.

I almost had sympathy but....
http://pragmaticobotsunite.com/wp-content/...-up-b861095.jpg

QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 11 2014, 01:11 PM) *
In as few words as possible: Yes

For people that disagree: What doesn't he know how to do very well.

Finally the definition of savant is wise man/expert in their respective field.

Thanks for for hitting the easy button Grover
Aware
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 11 2014, 12:11 PM) *
In as few words as possible: Yes

For people that disagree: What doesn't he know how to do very well.

Finally the definition of savant is wise man/expert in their respective field.



That's not the only definition plus I already defined what I mean by it above.
mgrover
QUOTE (Aware @ Mar 11 2014, 07:00 PM) *
That's not the only definition plus I already defined what I mean by it above.


Sure, also you said he hasn't been KDed or struggled, to be KD or struggled isn't in a boxers business, if you have done either you clearly can't be considered a savant. Sure struggling and being KD is part of the game, but it's usually not good to do either laugh.gif
Aware
QUOTE (mgrover @ Mar 11 2014, 05:25 PM) *
Sure, also you said he hasn't been KDed or struggled, to be KD or struggled isn't in a boxers business, if you have done either you clearly can't be considered a savant. Sure struggling and being KD is part of the game, but it's usually not good to do either laugh.gif


WTF are you talking about?
Jovi
Mayweather is not only Skilled (built through training), Talented (physical traits born with), like he said he is God Gifted. He was literally born to do what he does, God wouldn't have made his arms so long lol. The Talent is usually what builds offense and Skills is what should build defense, obvious both add to each category but those are more of the specialties.

People are usually "Talented" when they are athletic: Roy Jones. Roy Jones was the original AB- Athletic Bastard, how fast he moves and him hopping all around, his speed, basically everything that makes Roy Jones Roy Jones is his Athleticness. But He wasn't as skilled as he was talented, atleast in terms of Longevity.

People gotta remember Ali was a heavy weight, the reason he stood out was because there was no other heavyweights that moved like he did and was as fast as he was, but one huge huge huge huge bad trait he had, NO BODY SHOTS! I don't get it, I understand a heavyweight got that punching power but to not be versatile enough to through body shots just makes Ali one-dimensional.

Mayweather on the other hand does it all, Inside outside, back foot front foot, blocking evasion, Walk down and cut off the ring. You know he's a savant because nowadays if you think of the perfect boxer (just imagine it in your head) your style would fit Mayweather's closer than anyones. Mayweather Orthodox, Rigondeaux southpaw with more of Mayweather's traits. Thats it.

He isn't a Savant yet, since his career isn't over. Until now i would say yes.... If You chose to be a boxer, what kind of career would you like to have, If you would like to be undefeated until 45-0 and be so good that you can have the lowest percentage of hits landed on you. What would else would you call that. TBE
mgrover
QUOTE (Aware @ Mar 11 2014, 10:09 PM) *
WTF are you talking about?


Ah that was the other dude. readydog or something, my bad
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