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Cshel86
I already know the hate is going to flood in this thread, as well as a bunch of denial, but at this point, I believe Canelo beats Lara.

Just shy of a year ago, everybody KNEW that Trout was going to box Canelo to death and make him look silly...the exact opposite happened. Yeah it was a close fight, but the Trout that most hyped up, didn't show up that night. Yeah it was a close fight, but Trout didn't seem to wanna fight that night...it's not like Canelo's that hard to hit.

Anyway, all of this talk about Lara's movement, amateur experience, blah, blah, blah,...it wont resontate when you need it to. As far as I'm concerned, Lara does just enough to win rounds (circles, jabs here and there, and shoots a left)...that will be his undoing when those "close" rounds get awarded to Canelo (if they fight).

To add to that, we've seen it time and time again, and guys can say what they want, but Canelo steps it up in every fight. Yeah I know, it was Angulo, who can't hit Angulo? Even Angulo stepped his game just a bit for the Lara fight, and so will Canelo.

Make of this what you will, but I just see Canelo surprising people and taking the fight to Lara. Lara will be forced to fight another type of fight, because again, all of that pot shotting and circling, is gonna lose him more rounds than it will, win them.

Hate and denial...I welcome you open arms...bring it! cool.gif
Cheesey1
Put me in the denial group. Saw Lara vs. Trout, live in BK. Seats weren't too bad, so my view was good. Lara will beat Canelo.

Alvarez vs. Trout could have been scored either way. Not like Lara vs. Trout.
mgrover
Need to take a look at Canelo vs Angulo still
ROME
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Mar 9 2014, 11:40 AM) *
Put me in the denial group. Saw Lara vs. Trout, live in BK. Seats weren't too bad, so my view was good. Lara will beat Canelo.

Alvarez vs. Trout could have been scored either way. Not like Lara vs. Trout.

I was at the Barclays that night as well. Is this where I sign up for team "Denial"? Put me on, thanks.
AZWildCat
Triangles??????? Lol

I've seen all I need to see from canelo he's not the thunderous power puncher he was made out to be but his skills are there the chin is there and I can no longer hate the hype. It wasn't that he beat angulo it was the way he did it. Lara and cotto get beat. Martinez would most likely give him fits but if maravilla hits the floor or takes a combo/big shot ...expect the fight to be stopped. By the way last nights stoppage was a respected one ...Molina Jr and Chavez SR like comebacks will no longer happen.
Gambit808
I couldn't agree more with the title, my only interest is Canelo vs. Cotto-Martinez winner. Just make it happen!

On the other hand, without judging his popularity, would anyone suggest that he may be THE MOST PROMISING NATURAL 154lbs. out there right now, even without a title, or is it still to soon?
Cshel86
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Mar 9 2014, 11:40 AM) *
Put me in the denial group. Saw Lara vs. Trout, live in BK. Seats weren't too bad, so my view was good. Lara will beat Canelo.

Alvarez vs. Trout could have been scored either way. Not like Lara vs. Trout.

I'll add you to the denial group then, lol.

Yes, Alvarez vs Trout could've been scored either way, but I'll be honest, Trout was doing juuuust enough to win rounds, and some of those rounds that fans gave him, were sympathy rounds. I only say that, because he didn't seem as though he wanted it...Canelo imposed his will and put Trout on the deck...totally broke his spirit...he just did a good job of surviving.

mgrover
We say what happened when Canelo came up against a pure boxer like Floyd, but he was doing some shit right, and Lara is knowhere near as good as Floyd, as I think Canelo could very well take it, in what about be a slow, chess match, unless Lara feels like he has to press the matter, but I've never really seen him heavy on the front foot
Cshel86
QUOTE (AZWildCat @ Mar 9 2014, 01:30 PM) *
Triangles??????? Lol

I've seen all I need to see from canelo he's not the thunderous power puncher he was made out to be but his skills are there the chin is there and I can no longer hate the hype. It wasn't that he beat angulo it was the way he did it. Lara and cotto get beat. Martinez would most likely give him fits but if maravilla hits the floor or takes a combo/big shot ...expect the fight to be stopped. By the way last nights stoppage was a respected one ...Molina Jr and Chavez SR like comebacks will no longer happen.

Triangles?! Absolutely not! There's no room for 'em here...just common opponents (Angulo and Trout), and who looked better against them, which was Canelo.

Canelo/Trout:
*Canelo was supposed to lose badly by getting boxed to death (according to the boxing aficionado out there)...didn't happen, he bullied Trout and made an ass of him. People forced that fight in all hopes (and expert predictions) that Canelo would look bad when stepping up in class...as if he did't belong in the ring that night, when in fact, Trout looked like he didn't belong on that stage.

Canelo/Angulo:
*Angulo was supposed to bully Canelo into submission, and give him hell (which I predicted as well), but a leaping left hook early in round 1, put all of that to rest. He was supposed to struggle in a dog fight with Angulo, but he dogged the dog. As he was supposed to, he opened the arsenal, stuck to a game plan, and didn't fail to impress.

Lara/Angulo:
*For him to be such a standout amateur with all of these skills, he sure left much to be desired. Instead, he put everybody under the impression that Angulo could actually follow a game plan and slow down (and drop) skilled guys who know how to move. It's Angulo for christ's sake...that was supposed to be a Mayweather/Gatti-type beating handed out by Lara...all we got is the straight left, lateral movement, and witnessing him getting dropped twice.

Lara/Trout:
*Lara was supposed to make Trout look worse than a slower Canelo did...but he barely did that. The same old Lara...does juuuust enough to win rounds. Of course he dropped Trout, it's been done already. I DON'T feel that he beat Trout better than Canelo...he was supposed to, but Canelo wasn't supposed to beat Trout in the fashion that he did, let alone put him on the deck. He took the fight to him...something Lara doesn't do much of.

(AZ, none of the stuff below, applies to you. LOL)

I know that styles make fights, but Lara's gonna have to sell out a bit, if he wants to be on the big stage. Honestly, every time Lara has been on the big stage, he's either failed to impress, or raised more questions than answer them. I want to give him the Williams, but I haven't watch it in years, so I'll go back and watch it, just to make sure Lara was doing just enough to win rounds (regardless of the overhand lefts that he kept landing).

All I'm saying is, guys need to stop pushing these guys to the forefront saying that guy who appears to be the lesser fighter with more star power, is "scared" of them. Lara is almost at the point of begging, and I honestly think that Canelo will embarrass him.

Guys did the same thing with Matthysse, saying that Danny was ducking him, look what happened. Same thing happened with Canelo/Trout, almost happened with Chavez/Martinez, just to name a few.
Jovi
Well style's do make fights, So i wouldn't give Canelo the W yet, but it would be a much closer fight than Canelo vs Angulo.

Lara would actually land some punches with Torque, and wouldn't just walk forward the whole time without dodging any punches. But Canelo throws some awesome punches that i could see catching Lara, IF and only IF he doesn't gas out the whole time, because Lara will move with him compared to Angulo just chasing him around. There's alot of variables but I think it would be a better fight than Canelo vs Angulo, which was awesome because Canelo looked like he was versing a moving punching bag, definitely did what he had to do to standpoint.

But during the fight i was thinking "Canelo ain't fighting Lara after this." Meaning I think he's going for something bigger, which is most likely Cotto/Martinez winner, leaning towards Cotto.. They could agree to a catch weight around 155-157 or whatever, they both aint fighting at a certain weight class so i see them doing some weight catchweight shiz.

Canelo/Lara would still sell good i think, that all access really helped for angulo. It would sell decent and also give Lara some more starpower bringing in more money for his future too, but i think Canelo just gonna get a way bigger paycheck against the definite big seller, I think the best fight he could get now is against Cotto.
TheCritics
sorry, last night was very impressive but Lara wins... too well rounded to resemble anything like Angulo
Cshel86
QUOTE (TheCritics @ Mar 9 2014, 04:21 PM) *
sorry, last night was very impressive but Lara wins... too well rounded to resemble anything like Angulo

Well rounded, but yet he he was stalked and dropped by a slow plodder in Angulo. Well rounded though, huh?
Cshel86
QUOTE (Jovi @ Mar 9 2014, 03:32 PM) *
Well style's do make fights, So i wouldn't give Canelo the W yet, but it would be a much closer fight than Canelo vs Angulo.

What's with the double standard? Most guys have already given Lara the W if he ever shares the ring with Lara. I can look up some of those posts, by the way. "Styles make fights" needs to be explained for whatever the matchup is, since most boxing "fans" use it as a means to shut the other guys up, without the intent of being challenged on it (that excludes you, by the way, lol).

QUOTE (Jovi @ Mar 9 2014, 03:32 PM) *
Lara would actually land some punches with Torque, and wouldn't just walk forward the whole time without dodging any punches. But Canelo throws some awesome punches that i could see catching Lara, IF and only IF he doesn't gas out the whole time, because Lara will move with him compared to Angulo just chasing him around. There's alot of variables but I think it would be a better fight than Canelo vs Angulo, which was awesome because Canelo looked like he was versing a moving punching bag, definitely did what he had to do to standpoint.

That's what Lara needs to do (move forward), because all of that circling that he does can EASILY be viewed as "running", let the judges tell it. I think Lara is banking on Canelo being confused by his movement, but, if Canelo takes the fight to him, then I can see him being surprised...and not being able to deal with it.

Canelo's defense (which is underrated by the way) will get him through those "gas" rounds, like it always has. Lara doesn't strike me as an opportunist, just a "play it safe" counterpuncher. There are a lot of variables here (as you mentioned), but the question is, who capitalizes on them?

QUOTE (Jovi @ Mar 9 2014, 03:32 PM) *
But during the fight i was thinking "Canelo ain't fighting Lara after this." Meaning I think he's going for something bigger, which is most likely Cotto/Martinez winner, leaning towards Cotto.. They could agree to a catch weight around 155-157 or whatever, they both aint fighting at a certain weight class so i see them doing some weight catchweight shiz.

Agreed

QUOTE (Jovi @ Mar 9 2014, 03:32 PM) *
Canelo/Lara would still sell good i think, that all access really helped for angulo. It would sell decent and also give Lara some more starpower bringing in more money for his future too, but i think Canelo just gonna get a way bigger paycheck against the definite big seller, I think the best fight he could get now is against Cotto.

I'm not so sure an All Access series would help Lara at this point...some guys just aren't cut out for it.
Plah
Lol put me too on the denial group. While Lara was nowhere near impressive against Molina and Angulo, he raised his game up against Williams and Trout. While I don't see it anymore as an easy UD for Lara (for obvious reasons- Canelo has improved greatly), I just don't see Canelo beating him
Cheesey1
QUOTE (ROME @ Mar 9 2014, 11:03 AM) *
I was at the Barclays that night as well. Is this where I sign up for team "Denial"? Put me on, thanks.

Was a good event. Lara's speed really impressed. That left hand just blasts out of nowhere.
Cheesey1
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 9 2014, 12:48 PM) *
I'll add you to the denial group then, lol.

Yes, Alvarez vs Trout could've been scored either way, but I'll be honest, Trout was doing juuuust enough to win rounds, and some of those rounds that fans gave him, were sympathy rounds. I only say that, because he didn't seem as though he wanted it...Canelo imposed his will and put Trout on the deck...totally broke his spirit...he just did a good job of surviving.

GBP should make this one happen. I need to move to 3-0 in Gambit's prediction league.
klonopinz
lara would def go into survival mode and get dropped. canelo has speed and power, he burns up his energy using it, but its never in vain, unless your floyd mayweather, and theres only one of those. i think he ould eventually catch lara and hurt him, then lara would survive a losing fight, much like pacquiao cotto
TheCritics
I'm not that guy who judges everything on common opponent, I just see Lara cutting the ring off correctly and being too much offensively for Canelo... and I like Canelo, he just loses here thats all
DigitalBoom
I'm going to enjoy putting my money on Canelo if and when he fights Lara..if the offensive minded Canelo that showed up last night shows up to fight Lara it doesn't go 12 rounds...lara may be more technical but if Angulo could get to him I definitely expect Canelo to do so as well.
Marcus
QUOTE (ROME @ Mar 9 2014, 11:03 AM) *
I was at the Barclays that night as well. Is this where I sign up for team "Denial"? Put me on, thanks.


Shit i was there too ringside. Add me to the team denial club.

Canelo Trout was a hard fight and consider that Trout had to take more risks and fight a different type of fight due to the open scoring. He may not have stayed true to his game plan. I think there were other technicalities/stipulations that Canelo's team made trout agree to. Not saying Canelo didnt win, but the fight was close.

Im not saying Canelo cant beat Lara but i favor Lara over Canelo. What did Floyd do against Canelo that Lara can't do against Canelo? Also keep in mind Canelos days at 154 are most likely coming to an end. That weight is draining him.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Marcus @ Mar 9 2014, 08:30 PM) *
Shit i was there too ringside. Add me to the team denial club.

Canelo Trout was a hard fight and consider that Trout had to take more risks and fight a different type of fight due to the open scoring. He may not have stayed true to his game plan. I think there were other technicalities/stipulations that Canelo's team made trout agree to. Not saying Canelo didnt win, but the fight was close.


Im not saying Canelo cant beat Lara but i favor Lara over Canelo. What did Floyd do against Canelo that Lara can't do against Canelo? Also keep in mind Canelos days at 154 are most likely coming to an end. That weight is draining him.

Sorry, but we can no longer play this card...not that it was a great card to play in the first place. Lol

Trout knew what he was in for...

1. He was fighting a guy who EVERYONE was building up to fight Mayweather...Trout's name was never mentioned, let alone hardly mentioned amongst boxing fans.
2. He was in Texas in front of nearly 40k fans and judges were there to push the Canelo/Mayweather agenda.
3. Open scoring has NOTHING to do with it, especially off the strength that Trout knew about the open scoring.
4. Trout should have been fighting as if he KNEW the cards weren't in his favor...it didn't take open scoring for him to figure that out...he knew what the deal was, from jump.
5. Trout knew that the odds were stacked against him and that there wasn't a rematch clause...so why didn't he fight like that?
6. What were those "other technicalities/stipulations" that Canelo's team made Trout agree to?
Cshel86
QUOTE (Cheesey1 @ Mar 9 2014, 05:47 PM) *
GBP should make this one happen. I need to move to 3-0 in Gambit's prediction league.

I'm clutching at straws to get at least ONE win in Gambito's leagues...I'm looking real bad over here.
Gambit808
@Cheesey1 @Cshel86 we still in the beginning stages so u never know. I started 0-3 before I went up 5, so I know first hand that all your luck at this point can change in one night with the right predictions.

Anybody can confirm if Canelo actually came into the ring saturday at 174lbs. from 155lbs. the day before. Shit, I see now why he don't have a problem at all facing the Cotto-Martinez winner if it's true.
mrchitown
Canelo has the skills but I'm not sold that he beats Lara. Lara hasn't shown up in all his fights..ex. The Molina fight and the Vanes fight but he still gives his opponents hell. He moves well and most opponents of Canelo are there to be hit. His most impressive fights are against guys who don't move and stay directly in front of him

Ex...Lopez, Angulo, Matthew Hatton, Rhodes, Baldomir etc...he didn't beat Trout imo and I think Trout controlled him most of the night with a jab. I think Lara can make Alvarez gas worse then Trout did. But Canelo can drop him, this we know. I'd like to see this fight happen but I'd most likely lean towards Lara
The Original MrFactor
I think making a prediction on Canelo/Lara based on their fights with Angulo is a mistake. Angulo did drop Lara twice, but Lara put on a clinic as well. Lara battered Angulo and maybe that's why Canelo picked him to fight at this time. Angulo may well have retired right after the Lara fight and it would have been all good. I didnt see the Canelo/Angulo fight yet, but it sounds like Canelo beat the brakes off Angulo, who didnt appear to have anything left after the 1st round. Was that Canelo being so great or Angulo still damaged from the Lara fight.

It would not be the 1st time that Canelo cherry picked a name guy who was damaged goods. I remember him picking a fight with Kirkland a few years ago when Kirkland was on the shelf with a torn rotator. the fight had to be now or you wont get the fight was how it was laid out to Kirkland, who basically would have been fighting with 1 arm. It was tempting to Kirkland who eventually said F.U.

For the record, I think Lara outpoints him. It may get rough at times, but Lara recovered well in the Angulo fight when he was hurt and proceeded to box as if the knockdowns didn't happen.
BoxingEinstein
Lara's resume is better or about the same as Alvarez.

I must admit I was not at all impressed with Canelo beforehand against Angulo. Angulo was a live dog before fight night. Canelo's first landed power attack took the Perro out of El Perro, great stuff by the young Mexican who I picked to lose by KO.

Nonetheless I'm with Lara on this one, I think he has the better defense but Canelo's ring IQ is close with him. Lara has one of the fastest left hands I've seen from a south paw since Pacquiao was Pacmannin The Mexican Legend Trio. I know that sounds a bit hasty but Lara has the skill set to time Canelo with a left and play Matador. He can't go forward against Canelo so he must stick to outside boxing and turning Canelo from that left uppercut, timing his right hand or clinch when hurt to either close but clear UD/SD.
Jovi
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 9 2014, 03:43 PM) *
What's with the double standard? Most guys have already given Lara the W if he ever shares the ring with Lara. I can look up some of those posts, by the way. "Styles make fights" needs to be explained for whatever the matchup is, since most boxing "fans" use it as a means to shut the other guys up, without the intent of being challenged on it (that excludes you, by the way, lol).


That's what Lara needs to do (move forward), because all of that circling that he does can EASILY be viewed as "running", let the judges tell it. I think Lara is banking on Canelo being confused by his movement, but, if Canelo takes the fight to him, then I can see him being surprised...and not being able to deal with it.

Canelo's defense (which is underrated by the way) will get him through those "gas" rounds, like it always has. Lara doesn't strike me as an opportunist, just a "play it safe" counterpuncher. There are a lot of variables here (as you mentioned), but the question is, who capitalizes on them?


Agreed


I'm not so sure an All Access series would help Lara at this point...some guys just aren't cut out for it.


I meant styles making fights in terms of (biggest example) Angulo stayed right in front of Canelo the whole time even while getting punched, no step backs even to dodge, well it was very minimal, for the most part he was right in front of Canelo. If Canelo we're versing Lara, I'd expect Lara to move around more since he uses his legs alot and likes to circle the ring, Lara is just a mover compared to Angulo being a straightforward fighter.

You're right about Canelo's defense. His Defense is really good, and very balanced! He not only uses his legs to jump in and out, but also used his upperbody alot so he's very versatile which is only going to do him good, He was even parrying alot of angulos punches.

The only thing thats questionable is how slow and weak Angulo looked compared to Canelo, Angulo had me thinking I'm ready to hop in the ring and trade punches with him, and im a 140 pounder.

Canelo vs Lara: Offense- Both of them are Fast, Strong, love to throw jabs and put combos behind them. I cant give the advantage to either one of them in that category yet. Defense- Canelo has a balance of blocking, upperbody movement and lowerbody movement; while Lara on the other hand's defense is mostly Reliant on the lowerbody movement. So On an outside fight I'd give it to lara but I know Canelo will come in and fight on the inside too. Wildcard- Lara mostly counterpunches while Canelo can counter and Will Punch with you, with his power it works in his favor alot.

Its an awesome fight indeed, but I have a feeling Canelo want's Cotto or Martinez, and i ain't mad at him at all for it. I think he beats both, unless Martinez is pre-murray Martinez. But All good fights.

Canelo is gonna have a good year, I aint gonna lie, he impressed the shit out of me that fight, I'ma rewatch that a few times this week as soon as i can watch it HD.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Gambit808 @ Mar 10 2014, 01:16 AM) *
@Cheesey1 @Cshel86 we still in the beginning stages so u never know. I started 0-3 before I went up 5, so I know first hand that all your luck at this point can change in one night with the right predictions.

Anybody can confirm if Canelo actually came into the ring saturday at 174lbs. from 155lbs. the day before. Shit, I see now why he don't have a problem at all facing the Cotto-Martinez winner if it's true.

Nah, he was 170...Angulo came in at 174 after weighing in at 154.5.
Dolimite
I will say this: When Canelo fought Trout everyone thought Canelo got the nod unfairly, Canelo fights Mayweather and gets smoke (nothing to be ashamed either). people on this board including the dude who started this thread felt Canelo was a bit of a hype job. Now he dismantles El Perro and now all of a sudden he can beat Lara?

Teddy "Drunk as a Skunk" Atlas (I don't know how many people saw FNF last week, but Teddy was lit) said it best and I quote "Angulo, like Rios was picked for the Pacquiao fight, was picked for Canelo to look good." I picked Angulo to win because I like him as a person. I picked with my heart. Let's not forget what Lara did to Angulo. He came back from two knock downs and stopped El Perro. Let's face it, Canelo was the far superior talent between the two, he did everything he was suppose to do in that fight. he looked PHENOMENAL! I was wondering where was the this Canelo last year? I do not think Canelo can out box or out think Lara. Unlike Canelo, when Lara was down he dug deep and came back and beat Angulo. Yes Lara gets hit but guess what, he never panics, he always recovers.

Let's not go overboard with Canelo just yet, let's see how he will do against the Kirklands, Charlos, Laras, Cottos of the 154 pound division. I know we are excited but let's pipe that down. Let's wait and see what he does against a slick boxer not named Mayweather. I am happy about his win because I like Canelo to an extent ( love the Ali apparel and Tyson clothes he rocks) but let's wait and see.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Mar 10 2014, 12:59 PM) *
I will say this: When Canelo fought Trout everyone thought Canelo got the nod unfairly, Canelo fights Mayweather and gets smoke (nothing to be ashamed either). people on this board including the dude who started this thread felt Canelo was a bit of a hype job. Now he dismantles El Perro and now all of a sudden he can beat Lara?

Teddy "Drunk as a Skunk" Atlas (I don't know how many people saw FNF last week, but Teddy was lit) said it best and I quote "Angulo, like Rios was picked for the Pacquiao fight, was picked for Canelo to look good." I picked Angulo to win because I like him as a person. I picked with my heart. Let's not forget what Lara did to Angulo. He came back from two knock downs and stopped El Perro. Let's face it, Canelo was the far superior talent between the two, he did everything he was suppose to do in that fight. he looked PHENOMENAL! I was wondering where was the this Canelo last year? I do not think Canelo can out box or out think Lara. Unlike Canelo, when Lara was down he dug deep and came back and beat Angulo. Yes Lara gets hit but guess what, he never panics, he always recovers.

Let's not go overboard with Canelo just yet, let's see how he will do against the Kirklands, Charlos, Laras, Cottos of the 154 pound division. I know we are excited but let's pipe that down. Let's wait and see what he does against a slick boxer not named Mayweather. I am happy about his win because I like Canelo to an extent ( love the Ali apparel and Tyson clothes he rocks) but let's wait and see.

Just call my name bro...it's only one person that started this thread. This has nothing to do with Mayweather as you always seem to bring up, just to make your point. Anybody can make a point about boxing, when Mayweather's name is brought up...stick to the topic here, we're talking about 2 common opponents. Again, LEAVE Mayweather out of this.

It's not that he beat Angulo, but it's the fashion in which he beat him. Angulo is waaaay too hittable, so why wasn't Lara able to do the same (or even better than Canelo)? Real quick (since you like bringing up Floyd so much), when did people REALLY start giving him his credit as a fighter (casual fans)? After the...wait for it...the Gatti fight. Who hasn't beaten Gatti? The thing is, the fashion in which he beat Gatti...he was supposed to "run" around the ring and avoid exchanges, instead, he brought the fight to him. I can't name anybody that beat Gatti in that embarrassing of a fashion, no one.

Guys make it seem like Lara's a world beater, because of his "style" and amateur background, stop it. The only Cuban that I put my money on nowadays, is Rigondeaux. Again, since you bring up old stuff, YOU were one of the ones that said Canelo didn't belong in the ring with Trout, whom most of you crowned as this "slick" boxer with "Mayweather" arm reach, and movement that would embarrass Canelo...we see how that turned out. As a matter of fact, that's when Canelo really won my respect.

People can talk all day about how much of a bum they think Chavez is (or was), but he proved himself in the Lee fight, and almost finished Sergio, whom most of you hyped us as this world beater...seems to be a lot of backtracking going on when it comes to Sergio around here.

You try to make this case about Lara "digging deep" and beating Angulo, but why in the world was such a "superior" fighter on the deck any damn way? Canelo wasn't doing half the movement that Lara was doing, and not once did he hit the deck.

It's about time to give credit, where credit is due, and Canelo deserves some credit. How many people are you trying to throw at the dude...hoping that he's gonna lose, huh? You HATE it when the media does it to Floyd, but you're so comfortable doing it with Canelo. I'm not saying that Canelo is gonna be the next Mayweather, but the star power is there, and I'm almost certain that he beats Lara.

There you go throwing names out there...and of all names, the Charlo twins?! I like them, but they're nowhere near that level at this time (attraction wise)...they're still contenders. Canelo beats Cotto at this point, and out of all people, what does a Kirkland victory even do for him?

And I know why they put Angulo in front of Canelo...maybe because he was the one to put the world beater, Lara, on the deck twice in his career, regardless of him being stopped late in the fight. Had Angulo just gotten starched by Lara, then there would've been no need for the Canelo fight, but let's be honest here...Angulo took a piece of Lara that he (Lara) can't get back, and now he's begging for a payday. The little faith that most had in Lara's style and ability to look unbeatable, was taken away by Angulo.

It's a hard game out there in the boxing world, but Lara may have ruined his chances by getting dropped by Angulo, whom he wasn't even slugging with (how embarrassing). NOW, if Lara's lucky, Canelo's team may take advantage of Lara's weaknesses in the Angulo fight, and actually give him a fight after all.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 10 2014, 10:56 AM) *
Just call my name bro...it's only one person that started this thread. This has nothing to do with Mayweather as you always seem to bring up, just to make your point. Anybody can make a point about boxing, when Mayweather's name is brought up...stick to the topic here, we're talking about 2 common opponents. Again, LEAVE Mayweather out of this.

It's not that he beat Angulo, but it's the fashion in which he beat him. Angulo is waaaay too hittable, so why wasn't Lara able to do the same (or even better than Canelo)? Real quick (since you like bringing up Floyd so much), when did people REALLY start giving him his credit as a fighter (casual fans)? After the...wait for it...the Gatti fight. Who hasn't beaten Gatti? The thing is, the fashion in which he beat Gatti...he was supposed to "run" around the ring and avoid exchanges, instead, he brought the fight to him. I can't name anybody that beat Gatti in that embarrassing of a fashion, no one.

Guys make it seem like Lara's a world beater, because of his "style" and amateur background, stop it. The only Cuban that I put my money on nowadays, is Rigondeaux. Again, since you bring up old stuff, YOU were one of the ones that said Canelo didn't belong in the ring with Trout, whom most of you crowned as this "slick" boxer with "Mayweather" arm reach, and movement that would embarrass Canelo...we see how that turned out. As a matter of fact, that's when Canelo really won my respect.

People can talk all day about how much of a bum they think Chavez is (or was), but he proved himself in the Lee fight, and almost finished Sergio, whom most of you hyped us as this world beater...seems to be a lot of backtracking going on when it comes to Sergio around here.

You try to make this case about Lara "digging deep" and beating Angulo, but why in the world was such a "superior" fighter on the deck any damn way? Canelo wasn't doing half the movement that Lara was doing, and not once did he hit the deck.

It's about time to give credit, where credit is due, and Canelo deserves some credit. How many people are you trying to throw at the dude...hoping that he's gonna lose, huh? You HATE it when the media does it to Floyd, but you're so comfortable doing it with Canelo. I'm not saying that Canelo is gonna be the next Mayweather, but the star power is there, and I'm almost certain that he beats Lara.

There you go throwing names out there...and of all names, the Charlo twins?! I like them, but they're nowhere near that level at this time (attraction wise)...they're still contenders. Canelo beats Cotto at this point, and out of all people, what does a Kirkland victory even do for him?

And I know why they put Angulo in front of Canelo...maybe because he was the one to put the world beater, Lara, on the deck twice in his career, regardless of him being stopped late in the fight. Had Angulo just gotten starched by Lara, then there would've been no need for the Canelo fight, but let's be honest here...Angulo took a piece of Lara that he (Lara) can't get back, and now he's begging for a payday. The little faith that most had in Lara's style and ability to look unbeatable, was taken away by Angulo.

It's a hard game out there in the boxing world, but Lara may have ruined his chances by getting dropped by Angulo, whom he wasn't even slugging with (how embarrassing). NOW, if Lara's lucky, Canelo's team may take advantage of Lara's weaknesses in the Angulo fight, and actually give him a fight after all.

Dude's are on their rag today, maybe it is the change in time and people are grouchy, me not saying your name wasn't meant to be a diss, trust me if I wanted to talk smack as I have done in the past with you, I would. My thread or response has nothing to do with Mayweather. My mentioning him was because Canelo did not fight like he did against Mayweather because the skill set was a little different. i also mentioned Trout. He fought a different fight with Trout. He actually cruised or tried to cruise in that fight which is why I felt Trout won.

But let's get back on topic. You keep saying that I am ignoring Canelo's popularity. I in fact point to his popularity on why he is able to get the fights that he wants. Is it deserved? Hell no! But right now it is about popularity and that is cool. What Canelo did against Angulo he was suppose to do. Just like we all expect Danny to beat Herrera and how we expected Pacquiao to look great against Rios. This was the outcome that was suppose to happen. It's like fathers who want a damn pat on a back for being good dads, you are suppose to be! Lara looked bad against Agnulo for two reasons, one, he took Angulo as a stepping stone and a non threat and second he fought the wrong fight. He came out to the ring dry, he started sweating by mid fight and that is when he started taking off. He fought going backwards and he allowed Angulo to set up those power shots and he paid the price for it. When Lara realized this guy was serious he went into another gear, I have yet to see Canelo do that. Canelo walked Angulo down (a slow fighter with 0 head movement) and he was allowed to tee off on Angulo like it was target practice. Again, I am not taking anything away from Canelo's victory, it was impressive, it was his first stop since fighting... wait for it... Josesito Lopez. Kirkland could give Saul problems, but Kirkland needs to remain active. I believe the Charlo's could compete with Canelo and especially Martinez or Cotto. You are looking at what Canelo did to a B maybe C level fighter skill wise. Now if Canelo can do this against top Jr. Middle weights or one day top Middle weights, then I will give all credit that is do to him.

I think Lara posses these threats to Canelo, and if I am wrong I am sure Cshel (you) will kindly point them out:
1. Footwork. Lara has great footwork, this is what got him out of trouble against Angulo and the later rounds. He Instead of fighting backwards he saw he could cut the ring off against Angulo and started picking him apart.

2. Defense: for some reason it takes this guy to get cracked to display his defense. When he is on he is on. Angulo had a hard time hitting him and finding him as the fight progressed.

3. Hand speed and accuracy. Lara is scary accurate, he can hit you at will. He has good hand speed, faster than Canelo in my opinion.

4. Ring IQ: Lara makes adjust mid fights which is why he has been successful.

Those are some of the reasons why I think Lara beats Canelo. It will be an interesting fight, I don't think it will be a slug fest but a chess match.

Again, I though Saul looked great, but this is what I would like to see against stiffer competition. he was suppose to win, in this fashion. Guy connected 64% of his power shots, that is nothing to scoff at.

Floyd became popular after his De La Hoya match by the way. Gatti fight was nothing more than a showcase and a mild introduction to the casual fan.
Cshel86
QUOTE (Dolimite @ Mar 10 2014, 03:49 PM) *
Dude's are on their rag today, maybe it is the change in time and people are grouchy, me not saying your name wasn't meant to be a diss, trust me if I wanted to talk smack as I have done in the past with you, I would. My thread or response has nothing to do with Mayweather. My mentioning him was because Canelo did not fight like he did against Mayweather because the skill set was a little different. i also mentioned Trout. He fought a different fight with Trout. He actually cruised or tried to cruise in that fight which is why I felt Trout won.

But let's get back on topic. You keep saying that I am ignoring Canelo's popularity. I in fact point to his popularity on why he is able to get the fights that he wants. Is it deserved? Hell no! But right now it is about popularity and that is cool. What Canelo did against Angulo he was suppose to do. Just like we all expect Danny to beat Herrera and how we expected Pacquiao to look great against Rios. This was the outcome that was suppose to happen. It's like fathers who want a damn pat on a back for being good dads, you are suppose to be! Lara looked bad against Agnulo for two reasons, one, he took Angulo as a stepping stone and a non threat and second he fought the wrong fight. He came out to the ring dry, he started sweating by mid fight and that is when he started taking off. He fought going backwards and he allowed Angulo to set up those power shots and he paid the price for it. When Lara realized this guy was serious he went into another gear, I have yet to see Canelo do that. Canelo walked Angulo down (a slow fighter with 0 head movement) and he was allowed to tee off on Angulo like it was target practice. Again, I am not taking anything away from Canelo's victory, it was impressive, it was his first stop since fighting... wait for it... Josesito Lopez. Kirkland could give Saul problems, but Kirkland needs to remain active. I believe the Charlo's could compete with Canelo and especially Martinez or Cotto. You are looking at what Canelo did to a B maybe C level fighter skill wise. Now if Canelo can do this against top Jr. Middle weights or one day top Middle weights, then I will give all credit that is do to him.

I think Lara posses these threats to Canelo, and if I am wrong I am sure Cshel (you) will kindly point them out:
1. Footwork. Lara has great footwork, this is what got him out of trouble against Angulo and the later rounds. He Instead of fighting backwards he saw he could cut the ring off against Angulo and started picking him apart.

2. Defense: for some reason it takes this guy to get cracked to display his defense. When he is on he is on. Angulo had a hard time hitting him and finding him as the fight progressed.

3. Hand speed and accuracy. Lara is scary accurate, he can hit you at will. He has good hand speed, faster than Canelo in my opinion.

4. Ring IQ: Lara makes adjust mid fights which is why he has been successful.

Those are some of the reasons why I think Lara beats Canelo. It will be an interesting fight, I don't think it will be a slug fest but a chess match.

Again, I though Saul looked great, but this is what I would like to see against stiffer competition. he was suppose to win, in this fashion. Guy connected 64% of his power shots, that is nothing to scoff at.

Floyd became popular after his De La Hoya match by the way. Gatti fight was nothing more than a showcase and a mild introduction to the casual fan.

You're right, this time change is a kick in the pants, but no, that isn't the reason I'm grouchy. As a matter of fact, I'm not grouchy...just annoyed at your new found skill to regurgitate stuff, then back yourself into a corner of contradiction, when it matters the most. Lol

You're giving Lara all of these accolades, when he had no business being floored twice by the likes of Angulo...the very fighter that you're using to subliminally take credit away Canelo's demolition of him. Angulo's limited, but how nobody's been able to answer why he was able to put Lara on the canvas twice.

Guys blab on about a fighter's skills and ring generalship, but ring generalship is only good when it's maintained. It's funny how guys like Sergio can go 11 rounds with a plodder, but happened to get dropped (and almost stopped) in the final round...same goes for Lara being dropped twice.

You gave this flimsy excuse about Lara coming to the ring dry, but weren't they fighting outside in June??? How can guy really come to the ring dry, unless he had problems making weight? Now, he may have underestimated Angulo, but of that was the case, then why not take him head on and get him outta there?

Fact of the matter is, Saul had some weapons in his arsenal, and we saw it firsthand. I'm not saying that he can do that on any and every opponent in the future, but the fact that he was able to execute some of those punches and follow a game plan, says a lot. He not only threw these shots because a slow guy with no head movement was in front of him, but he set most of those punches up.

Cheesey1
Richard Schaefer, please, please make this match happen. CShel needs another 'L' in the prediction league.
Hotsauce
canelo is boxing next superstar

deal with it.
Dolimite
QUOTE (Cshel86 @ Mar 10 2014, 01:41 PM) *
You're right, this time change is a kick in the pants, but no, that isn't the reason I'm grouchy. As a matter of fact, I'm not grouchy...just annoyed at your new found skill to regurgitate stuff, then back yourself into a corner of contradiction, when it matters the most. Lol

You're giving Lara all of these accolades, when he had no business being floored twice by the likes of Angulo...the very fighter that you're using to subliminally take credit away Canelo's demolition of him. Angulo's limited, but how nobody's been able to answer why he was able to put Lara on the canvas twice.

Guys blab on about a fighter's skills and ring generalship, but ring generalship is only good when it's maintained. It's funny how guys like Sergio can go 11 rounds with a plodder, but happened to get dropped (and almost stopped) in the final round...same goes for Lara being dropped twice.

You gave this flimsy excuse about Lara coming to the ring dry, but weren't they fighting outside in June??? How can guy really come to the ring dry, unless he had problems making weight? Now, he may have underestimated Angulo, but of that was the case, then why not take him head on and get him outta there?

Fact of the matter is, Saul had some weapons in his arsenal, and we saw it firsthand. I'm not saying that he can do that on any and every opponent in the future, but the fact that he was able to execute some of those punches and follow a game plan, says a lot. He not only threw these shots because a slow guy with no head movement was in front of him, but he set most of those punches up.

I accept your apology lol...

I was at the fight and I was sitting a few rows back from the ring. I saw the replay on TV and I noticed that Lara was dry coming into the ring seemed unfazed by the atmosphere he was in. Lara took Angulo light. If you looked at his punches and defense he was leaving himself wide open for the shots Angulo landed. All I am saying is that Lara dug deep and pulled out the W. I have yet to see Canelo go into deep waters and pull himself out. I have seen Lara do just that. Again, Canelo looked really impressive against Angulo. Against Trout he tired and he even looked confused at times during the fight, be he got the W. Canelo is immensely popular, a damn super star just about. His popularity is what got him at the stage of his career that he is at. I became a fan of Lara when he fought Paul Williams and won. This guy was giving P W the business and he "lost" that fight. I am not taking anything away from Canelo, he showed signs of greatness against Angulo, but I am not sold on him yet, not until he can show what he did against Angulo on a top Jr. Middle Weight. I am not giving him the keys to the castle just yet. Again, he gets an A+ for his fight on Saturday, but the test was quite easy.
checkleft
QUOTE (mrchitown @ Mar 10 2014, 01:19 AM) *
Canelo has the skills but I'm not sold that he beats Lara. Lara hasn't shown up in all his fights..ex. The Molina fight and the Vanes fight but he still gives his opponents hell. He moves well and most opponents of Canelo are there to be hit. His most impressive fights are against guys who don't move and stay directly in front of him

Ex...Lopez, Angulo, Matthew Hatton, Rhodes, Baldomir etc...he didn't beat Trout imo and I think Trout controlled him most of the night with a jab. I think Lara can make Alvarez gas worse then Trout did. But Canelo can drop him, this we know. I'd like to see this fight happen but I'd most likely lean towards Lara

yo, give this man a contract.

as chi mentioned the verdict is out on both of these dudes. I'd lean towards Lara, but both of these guys are still unproven. Consistency is part of being considered elite, and both of these guys lack consistency. Canelo can beat the shit out of human punching bags and Lara can be on dancing with the stars, we get it. They need to get in the ring and show out, both can talk as much as they want but actions will always speak louder.

mrchitown
QUOTE (checkleft @ Mar 11 2014, 12:46 AM) *
yo, give this man a contract.

as chi mentioned the verdict is out on both of these dudes. I'd lean towards Lara, but both of these guys are still unproven. Consistency is part of being considered elite, and both of these guys lack consistency. Canelo can beat the shit out of human punching bags and Lara can be on dancing with the stars, we get it. They need to get in the ring and show out, both can talk as much as they want but actions will always speak louder.


Agreed that they both lack consistency....for all Canelo's praise for his performance last Saturday, he still gassed and was getting tee'd off on by Angulo late in the fight. Alvarez doesn't have one punch power, if you allow him to throw combos and connect on you then he can stop you. I don't see him stopping Lara because I don't believe Lara will allow him to land the combos he's so accustomed to. Lara is the better counter puncher but Alvarez has the most pop on his punches. It's an interesting fight that needs to happen
AZWildCat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-DVWm-k5fs...be_gdata_player

I know for a fact 4 of you (yeah you) wanted to but didn't so they did it for you.

10players strikes again!!!
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