"I think if I regret anything, it’s that I didn’t figure this out sooner. I had leverage back then. I fought with them over my ancillary rights and actually resigned as the heavyweight champion to try and facilitate making that fight happen, the Fedor fight. I didn’t understand the flaw in the system. I didn’t understand how the promoters were able to extract ancillary rights and force athletes to sign all of these one-sided contracts," stated UFC Hall of Famer Randy "The Natural" Couture, who opened up about his previous battle with the UFC and the ongoing fight for fighter rights.
PC: You are a busy man these days. What do you currently have going on?
RC: I just got back from Hawaii doing my fourth episode of Hawaii Five-0 as the character Jason Duclair. That was a lot of fun. I’m here in L.A. this week and next week working with some ball players with the MMA Athletics program at Unbreakable Gym in Los Angeles. I got Kyle Long and a few other guys in here doing some MMA training as a form of cross-training. It’s a lot of fun and been really good for these guys.
PC: You were one of the first fighters to step outside of the UFC and do other things using your likeness. That hasn’t been a luxury for a lot of these guys. Do you feel like as much as you were able to do, had the rules been different, you could have done even more?
RC: You’re right, I’m one of the few guys. When Zuffa bought the company in 2000, I had very good management at that time with Battle Management, who came from the entertainment industry here in L.A., and they understood what ancillary rights were and all of those things and they actually educated me about that back then in 2000. We fought hard with Zuffa and Dana over those ancillary rights and to keep control over my ancillary rights, which allowed me to do movies, to do a book, and my own video game. A lot of these other things that I was able to do that a lot of these other athletes that were involved with Zuffa and the UFC, they don’t own those rights; they can’t do it without Zuffa’s permission. And that’s kind of one of the things that the MMAFA is trying to educate the fighters about, not only is the Muhammad Ali Expansion Act, which the guys are out in Washington D.C. right now continuing to push for. I think we are up to 26 congressmen that are signed on to sponsor the expansion of the Ali Act, which is more than the original act had in the first place. We are starting to knock on doors of Senators and starting to get the approval of Senate to get it on the floor and get the Expansion Act voted on. And by the way, a big shout out to Markwayne Mullin, the Republican Congressmen from Oklahoma. He’s been the one that spearheaded all of this as a congressman. He was a fighter early in his career in Oklahoma. And it’s his birthday today, so I wanted to give him a big shout out on his birthday. But he’s been the guy trying to get this thing going. He tried out for TUF [The Ultimate Fighter] and seen what those contracts look like and how restrictive they are and how much you would have to give away just to participate on the show. That was the emphasis for him to try to get on board and get the Ali Act pushed through and get it expanded. It’s interesting how things work out and how they all tie together.
PC: That’s very interesting. Has the process of getting the Ali Act expanded into MMA been frustrating for you, a major learning experience and eye opener, or just something you have to keep plugging away at?
RC: It’s certainly been an eye opener. I’ve never spoke before at a congressional hearing or even spent that much time on Capitol Hill communicating with congressmen. So it’s been interesting. It’s been interesting when you realize whose office you are walking into and which side of the aisle they are on. You have to kind of formulate your presentation and your story with that in mind. When I walk into a Democrat’s office, there are different things that are going to trigger their interest in response to the Ali Act. For most of the Democrats, it seems to be the health and welfare of the fighters. When you start talking about, “Okay, if I made a fair share of the money that comes in for the show that I’m on, then I have to fight a lot less during the course of the year for my career, therefore I’m putting my body on the line a lot less, which makes it a lot less likely that I’m going to sustain any significant damage to my head or the rest of my body, my joints and stuff. That’s the thing that seems to get their attention on that side of the aisle.
When I’m walking into a Republican’s office, it’s about fair trade, a free and open market, and being able to negotiate for what I’m worth and for what my value is in the market place. Not that they’re not interested in our health and well-being, they are, but when you start talking about the things that really get them on board and what we are trying to do, that’s generally the narrative that those guys want to hear. That’s been interesting seeing the difference between the two parties as we kind of forge down this road. I think both things are viable; I think both things are accurate and true. If I made what my fair value is in the marketplace, I would have to fight a lot less and put a lot less wear and tear on my body and that’s only fair that I should be able to negotiate with the promoter that gives me the most money. That’s what the difference is between us and boxing. Guys like Mayweather are able to negotiate their value and how much money is going to come on off of that show that he fights on and get the lion’s share of that money instead of what’s going on in MMA right now, which is about 13% of the revenue that’s coming in from one UFC is going to the fighters. All of the rest is going to the promoter and the production and that’s unbelievable.
PC: And fighters love to fight and if it wasn’t for the rigorous training that you guys have to subject yourselves to, I’m sure you wouldn’t mind fighting 10 times a year. So when you say wear and tear on the body, it’s not just the fight, but the sparring, grappling, and wrestling that comes along with preparing for these fights is tough on the body.
RC: That’s absolutely correct. If you look at the average fighter, most training camps are about 10 weeks long. If I fight 3 times a year, that’s 30 weeks out of a 52-week year that I am in hardcore, very physical training to get ready for fights. That’s a lot to ask of your body.
PC: When you see a Demetrious Johnson complaining about not being treated fairly, when you see Felice Herring saying she doesn’t feel she’s getting the push because she’s not pretty enough, and obviously some of the things Cris Cyborg has been through with the company, I’m sure you could relate because you pursued a fight with Fedor and that ended with your pay stubs being passed around a room to the media. It’s 2017 and fighters still have some of the same complaints and headaches that you had.
RC: Yeah, this is nothing new. This isn’t a new situation or a new story. I was teammates with Matt Lindland and because Dana didn’t like Matt’s style and the way that he fought, even though he was winning, he wasn’t going to get the nod. He wasn’t going to get the push forward. We have seen that time and time again. Demetrious is certainly the most current example of that. I certainly had my woes trying to make the Fedor fight happen. When they couldn’t get a deal done with Fedor, the first thing Dana did was come out and say he was overrated and he’s not that great a fighter and he hasn’t beat anybody important. He tried to run Fedor down. It’s amazing. It’s nothing new and we’re involved in an education process. We need to get these top five percent of fighters that are fighting in our industry to understand that even though they are making pretty dang good money at that level, they're still being taken advantage of ultimately. If we could get some of those guys on board, because they have the leverage, without those fighters, there are no shows. So if we could educate them and make them see what’s going on and what the flaw is in this system and how they are being taken advantage of, I think we could make a difference. And we are certainly doing our part. We are going to be in D.C. all week pushing with the congressmen and the senators and next week, we will be down in the Mohegan Sun in Connecticut for the ABC [Association of Boxing Commissions] again. They have been behind what we are doing. They have been supportive of it and they actually spoke at the congressional hearing last year. They are in support of getting the Ali Act amended, so we’re happy to have their support and we want to be there to continue to modify the rules and keep up with the sport of mixed martial arts.
PC: If you had any regrets during the course of your UFC career, would you say it was the lack of ability to make certain fights like the Fedor fight and other fights that fans wanted to see you involved in?
RC: I think if I regret anything, it’s that I didn’t figure this out sooner. I had leverage back then. I fought with them over my ancillary rights and actually resigned as the heavyweight champion to try and facilitate making that fight happen, the Fedor fight. I didn’t understand the flaw in the system. I didn’t understand how the promoters were able to extract ancillary rights and force athletes to sign all of these one-sided contracts. It wasn’t until I kind of educated myself through the MMAFA that the promoter and the sanctioning body cannot be the same guy. It’s just too much power. Those powers need to be separated and independent. And that’s what happens in boxing that does not happen in mixed martial arts. I might have been able, as the heavyweight champion or light heavyweight champion, to have a little more impact. Now I’m retired, I’m doing my part and trying to help and educate fighters, but it’s really the fighters that are involved in fighting right now that are dealing with these promoters that are going to have the most influence and most impact on changing things.
PC: You are still fighting for change in MMA, you still corner your son, and you see these kind of "legends" fights that Bellator puts on. Do you ever get that itch to get back in there and compete?
RC: I have trouble going to any fight, and certainly I’ve been to my share of Bellator fights now as the Brand Ambassador and watching my son compete, and not get the itch. If you’re not wiggling around in your seat...I’m one of those guys. I’m squirming around in my seat imagining what I would execute and how I would get the job done (laughing) when I watch those fights. That’s just how I am, but at some point, I have to come back to reality and be rational and realize I’m 54 years old and I’m enjoying acting and all of the other stuff that I’m doing right now and it doesn’t make a lot of sense for me to try and step back in that cage after 6 years off.
BE SURE TO CHECK BACK SOON FOR MUCH MORE WITH UFC HALL OF FAMER RANDY "THE NATURAL" COUTURE
[ Follow Percy Crawford on Twitter @MrLouis1ana ]