Well MMA fans, UFC® 104 is coming at us on the 24th of October, and it not only features a great title bout but some truly intriguing top-level matchups on the undercards as well. One of the most interesting is light heavyweights Eric 'Red' Schafer (11-3-2) against Ryan 'Darth' Bader (9-0). Bader is the Ultimate Fighter: Season 8 winner, and is 1-0 in the UFC® and is a college All-American wrestler. Schafer is on a four-fight win streak and has a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Both men are on their way up in the UFC®, so this promises to be one of those fights that can put both of them into a higher echelon of competition. I had the pleasure of speaking with Eric Schafer this week, just about 10 days before his fight. Which just so you know is not usually the time that fighters wish to be asked much, and some of them understandably get somewhat diva-like, though I will never say who. Eric though was thoughtful, humble and gracious...
SD: Hi Eric, and thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me right before a fight and in the middle of your training.
ES: You're welcome man, it's my pleasure.
SD: Let's talk about your fight with Ryan Bader. On paper at least, you guys seem to have a lot of similarities. He's an excellent wrestler and you have a black belt in BJJ, so the ground game could be nullified. You seem to have much better Muay Thai and stand-up. Do you feel like that's your advantage?
ES: I'm definitely more experienced than he is in striking. I've been training striking since '96; probably since he was in junior high school. I'm mainly a grappler so I haven't had to show it yet [striking]. This may be the first guy I might not be able to take down, so I might have to show it a lot more than you normally see it.
SD: You're right, he has some very quick takedowns and he's come a long way with his stand-up since The Ultimate Fighter.
ES: Yeah, he's such a good athlete that you take a guy like that and show him anything and he's going to be good.
SD: Like you said, he's not that experienced and he hasn't gone against a lot of the type of guys that you have, that were top contenders and tough guys. Do you think that gives you an edge?
ES: Definitely my biggest edge is that he won the reality show but he's only had one UFC® fight after that. So he's really 1-0 in the UFC®. The reality show is an awesome show, but it's not the same. He's never been in there with a big name yet and never had those big fights, and I had to learn that myself. I had to go through that as well when I came into the UFC®. I didn't do as well as I should have because of my inexperience, so thankfully I'm already through that.
SD: Yeah, I know you had those two tough losses to Bonnar and Bisping. But then you bounced right back. I know you don't want to show your cards too much, but anything specifically that you're training for this fight?
ES: Well, like I said this is the first guy that I may not be able to take down. Eventually maybe, but this is an All-American wrestler so it may be different. In all of my fights, honestly I was always the better grappler and the better wrestler. So I pretty much had that gameplan locked down...take 'em down and finish them on the ground. This is the first fight where I have to let him decide. So I'm working my striking a lot more and my defensive Jiu-Jitsu off my back. It's kind of interesting and it's kind of a lot easier because I don't have to force the takedown. I'll let him decide where it goes. I'm working my wrestling a lot less offensively, because again, he's an All-American wrestler, so I don't want to waste all my energy trying to take him down. So it should be a lot more fun and a lot less stress.
SD: Cool, that sounds like a great way to approach it. Are you working a lot more also on your takedown defense?
ES: Yeah you know, I've always had decent defense, but part of it was I didn't care if I went to the ground. So I kind of would let people shoot in on me and then once I'm on my back I either sweep or submit them. I definitely don't want to be underneath him; he's going to be very hard to submit, especially in the first few rounds. I'm going to have to wear him down. So I've been working on sprawls, and we had some NCAA wrestlers in camp, and I'm definitely working on my defense. Even if I get taken down, I really want him to work hard so that he gets tired.
SD: Gotcha, understood. Speaking of just coming into the UFC®, you had your first fight at UFC® 62 and submitted Rob MacDonald, then you had those two tough losses against Bisping and Bonnar. Did those losses allow you to grow and get better? Because since then you've been on a four-fight win streak.
ES: Yeah you know, the biggest problem with those fights I think was experience. I went in there very tight, very nervous, and in both fights I wasn't really gassed per se, I just fought so tense that my muscles actually got tired. I was breathing fine and I had trained for three or four rounds, but when you're in there and you're going against Michael Bisping and Stephan Bonnar, the winners of TUF, I was so new to the sport in the UFC® that I kind of couldn't believe I was in there. So I'm kind of watching myself on the big screen and getting really nervous fighting these guys. Since then I've calmed down and now I feel like a veteran in there. Houston Alexander's another big name that I fought in his own hometown, and I survived a little danger there and had no problem with my cardio and my conditioning. It had more to do with nerves than anything else in the past, but you can see by the Alexander fight that I've overcome that.
SD: Cool, and by the way I got to tell you - I am a Houston Alexander fan, and after that fight I became an Eric Schafer fan as well. I was watching that fight and all of a sudden I'm like 'Oh my god!' You just dismantled him.
ES: Thanks man. I appreciate that.
SD: So what's the worst part about training camp?
ES: Honestly, this camp was 9-10 weeks and you just start getting sick of it. I love training and everything about it, and this one was a fun one because we had four UFC® guys at our training camp. So it's more fun because we're all going through it. This has been a very healthy camp for me, but still, 10 weeks - your body just starts to get sick of it. The diet... everything about it. It's okay for 6-7 weeks, but 8-9 weeks, the monotony of it starts to get to you. But we've only got a week left, so it's okay right now.
SD: How healthy are you going into this fight?
ES: I'm good, knock on wood. I think this may be the healthiest I've ever been going into a fight. I have a bruised calf from being kicked, but if that's the worst injury you have then I'm pretty happy. Usually I have a few nicks and bangs, but this has been a very good camp.
SD: Who are the other fighters in your camp?
ES: We have Pat Barry, Razak Al-Hassan, and Ben Rothwell. He's the co-main event and it's just a lot easier when you see other guys doing the same thing.
SD: You have a B.S. in biology and chemistry from the University of Wisconsin-Oshkosh, and you graduated magna cum laude...do you consider yourself one of the more cerebral fighters out there or more reactive?
ES: That's why I really love Jiu-Jitsu; I just love the technique of it. It's like chess. When I'm on the ground I'm thinking, 'Fake here, make him move there' - it's all very logical to me. I love the thought process of Jiu-Jitsu, and MMA is just an extension of that. I've always been a decent athlete, but what attracts me to this sport is the technical part of MMA. I was actually supposed to go to med school and I took the tests and everything, but I couldn't help but put that on hold.
SD: Why, is it the cerebral part? Is it the rush of adrenaline? With your education there is a lot you could do for a living...why fight?
ES: Honestly it's not just about the fighting. It's the ultimate test of everything. Mental tests, physical tests, emotional tests. The nerves of this thing... it's almost human instinct to test yourself, and this is the greatest test in the world, you know, maybe mountain climbing and sports like that are the only other things that could compare to this. I've played other sports, I played football, track and field, soccer, and nothing is like MMA. It's so nerve-racking. It's so scary. Your goal isn't to win a game. Your goal is to win a fight! It's just so much more stress. And as long as you went out there and did your best, win or lose, it's the greatest feeling in the world. That's what I do it for.
SD: So it's about pushing yourself to be better and knowing that you did the best you could possibly do?
ES: Exactly.
SD: I feel you. It's the only sport in the world where if you get hurt you can't call a timeout. You just have to say, 'So what, I'm hurt, but I have to keep fighting.'
ES: That's true. It's more than a sport. It's testing yourself at the ultimate level.
SD: Kind of going places that you have never taken yourself?
ES: Yes, and I have no problem with losing as long as I push myself and do my best. The Bonnar and Bisping fights... I'm not saying they wouldn't have beaten me, but in those fights, I didn't test myself. My brain, my stress, my nerves lost me that fight. Those are the ones that I don't like. If I go out there and just brawl and get close to some submissions and I lose a decision but I know I did my best , those are the ones that I don't have a problem with. Those are the ones that you test yourself.
SD: Understood. You've been fighting for 12 years now. How much longer do you want to do it? Do you have a timeframe? Or do you say, 'I want to do it until I can't improve anymore and my skills start to slip a little'?
ES: You know, I went pro a little early, but it wasn't full-time. I really didn't start getting serious about the sport until about 3-4 years ago, so I'm still physically young. I haven't had a lot of injuries. When the UFC® career is over, then I have a lot of other stuff going on and I don't have a problem going to another career. I don't want to go back to the smaller shows. Some of these veterans that are in their 30-40s, they keep doing that, and maybe they're making good money, but I'm good with not doing that. Maybe I'll start a Jiu-Jitsu school and maybe compete in Jiu-Jitsu tournaments and grappling. It's not as hard. It's still hard work, but you don't have to do a 10-week camp for a Jiu-Jitsu tournament. I feel like I have another 5 years or so if I can keep winning.
SD: Cool. Let's move forward a little. If you beat Bader, is there anyone specifically that you would want to fight next?
ES: You know, I would just want to get into the bottom part of the top 10 guys in my division. When you get into that top 10, then all of those guys are great and the weight class is so loaded with competition. You got guys like Jardine, Forrest and just so many guys that are so talented. That's what's tough about the 205 division. There is so much competition, even the guys that aren't in the very top, guys like Mark Coleman, are very talented and that's what I love about the division. I always say if I can challenge a guy that's ranked a few spots higher than me and beat him and just keep moving up then I'm good. I'm not a big fan of trying to take on the number one guy because I'm not even close to that level yet. But the guys that are in the 8-10 spots, that's what I look for. Just a little step up, and I think Bader is just the perfect step up right now.
SD: You're right, a victory over him definitely moves you up. Speaking of those top guys, who are you picking with Machida versus 'Shogun'? What are your thoughts?
ES: I would have to pick Machida. The biggest thing with Machida is I've seen all his other fights too and I've never seen him in danger. He's very hard to hurt, and anything can happen in a fight and 'Shogun' has that explosive style, but I don't think 'Shogun' is the right style to beat him. I want to see him [Machida] figured out because I can't figure him out. I think the best guy to beat him would be a wrestler. But we haven't seen him get hurt in five UFC® fights and I just don't think 'Shogun's' got the right style to do it.
SD: Yeah, I have to agree with you. I don't think anybody's got this guy figured out yet at all. Well, cool man. I want to thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. I know this is a really focused time for you and it's kind of a pain in the ass to do an interview a few days before a fight, so I just want to really thank you again for your time.
ES: No problem Stuart, thanks, it was a good interview.
And on one last personal note - I sparred last night at Eric Castanos' Fierce Fighters Academy and I haven't sparred there in a while. It's the best group of boxers and kickboxers as well as MMA fighters in Miami (in my opinion). It's a tough place to spar... to say the least. Kickboxing and sparring in particular reminds me a little bit of my fiancee 'The Colombian Goddess.' There is nothing that I am more passionate about. The good days are the best experiences in the world. The days I'm getting my ass kicked are always a stark and humbling reality... thank God she gives me so many more good days than bad by far. Sparring though... I'm not so lucky or good. A special thanks to my sparring partner last night Gendry for not totally handing me my ass and allowing me to survive. Once again, a humbling night.
Thanks for reading and have a powerful day!